tiamat63 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 It's always interesting coming at these attempts to watch film and understand players. Not only players, but the positions they're put in on the field. Roles, assignments, responsibilities, etc etc. Though I have a great command of it, things aren't always so easy, so black and white. There are many areas of grey at times in football and damn, would I love the opportunity to pick the brains of the players and the coaches over them when I let these plays run. For every still I post, I've probably gone over that one play at bare minimum 3 times. I've always loved complexity, I've always loved asking 'why?'. Yet I also understand, that complexity, only for the sake of being complex, isn't always the most effective approach to things. I'm not going to swap out the alternator on my car before checking the battery first. As common sense tells us, that is the likely culprit to a vehicle that won't start is the battery first and foremost. Football is and can be almost the exact same. Complex can be beautiful, it can be effective, but it can also work against you when not used in moderation. Alex Grinch, the former DC at both tOSU and, this previous season OU, is about the best example I can give of the latter of those situations. As a result, I now more clearly understand why some of his former players are speaking out against this designs now that their collegiate playing time is over. If only to highlight to their prospective NFL employers why they felt their skills were either underutilized or misused. Perrion Winfrey might be the biggest victim of both those instances from that OU defensive roster. Follow along with me, friends.... yes, I've put some time into this and it's a long read. 1/2 I myself would be (if I coached anything beyond what I've been voluntold for) a 1 gap disciple. Especially in the era of modern college football. Tempo, RPO, split zone reads, the zone running game being far more integrated than it was only 15 years ago... I want to line up and play as fast as the offense is playing. I win with discipline, communication, execution and tenacity. In keeping with a lot of tradition for what the 'over' front was built on (3 tech to the strength/closed end) you get a lot of 1gap principles. Alex Grinch builds his defenses on it, and that is about as much as I agree with his particular coaching philosophy. The below is a field slant (D line slants from pre-snap gap to postsnap assignment, front the field over. Linebackers replace. Fancy gap exchange) These more... "exotic" ideas, even in run fits, are meant to force an Oline to communicate and pass off assignments, or to win their assignments against a post-snap picture that is clearly differing from their pre-snap picture. In a way, that is an idea I agree with, but my agreement to that generally reserved for the secondary. As these early down slants are very much a high risk, high reward call. Most coaches will actually tell you more of the former against the run. Like anything, I believe in risk management and calculation. If you employ the same strategy over and over, then your attempt at disguise can become predictable, and thus not beyond a measure of counter strategy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- But below...This is how you might more commonly find gap assignments with this type of front against 21 personnel. There's nothing sexy about it. No designed gap exchange, no slant, nada. You have Players attacking open gaps, backside crash/boot, linebackers playing clear/scape, then a Dgap/force. The only thing I'll say about this C gap player is that, if he's good enough, he can "control" his TE assignment and almost act like a quasi 2 gap machine. The last thing you want is to take yourself out of the play by getting too narrow or too wide at the C gap. Winning with talent and execution. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I was younger, I was taught that slanting on your dline was for 3 things. - Mix up it, surprise. - Supplement for simulated or real pass rush pressure instead of bringing extra bodies on passing downs. For coaches who like dialing up those more creative 4 man designs. Coach Jim Schwartz is a good example - Lack of talent. The last one is the biggest. Let's face it, when you don't rely on your talent to straight up win their assignments, you're attempting to mask some type of deficiency. Before the advent of the modern spread game at the highlest levels of collegiate football, that style of offense was often looked at as a gimmick. Used by "lesser" football schools to help offset the talent discrepancy against larger schools. I remember getting my first understanding of this mentality from the OSU v Mizzou game in 1998. I was just a kid, but I remember watching Corby Jones get blasted by Katzenmoyer for one of my earliest, crystal clear football memories. Lacking talent forces you to get increasingly creative. But OU is a staple football program, I can't think of many instances when they truly lacked talent in my lifetime. So in essence, your desire to generate TFL, sacks and confusion ends up becoming your Achilles heel. The Bedlam game is where I found the greatest duality of this style fused into a single film. - Off rip at the first play, you have a called delay against a light box and another field slant. The weakside edge attacks the RT's inside shoulder, and the RB is now able to more clearly make his read and cut off of that assignment. Any draws or delays against slants and stunts tend to blow up the defensive call by nature because you're seeing which gaps are being exchanged before the players can win their assignment. The RB isn't proceeding laterally or downhill yet so you're changing rushing lanes for the RB and almost making life easier on him. Had the QB pump fake not been included, this run is probably 15+ yards instead of a more modest 10. - If you go to @ 0:18 seconds, you see the strength of such a call and movement on a stunt with a design that opens a free rush lane, then a pressure that forces and errant throw. Let me help more clearly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perrion, for the greater times on passing downs, wasn't used as a gap shooter so much as he was asked to, by ability and design, occupy blockers and allow perhaps the more lesser known players make plays. I think Winfrey's natural ability is evident on tape the moment you put him on, especially his first step quickness. Coaches were probably worried about neutralizing him only, as I can't find any other reason to be concerned about this OU defense. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- At any point, football is a numbers game. How can I beat you while using less resources? The boundary edge isn't rushing, but instead is floating between picking up the TE on any delay and eyeing a QB scramble. Winfrey and the 3 tech have taken up the LG, C and RG. The field side edge has drawn the RG and chip help from the RB. That's 7 blockers for 5 rushers. With one small caveat.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The other 3 tech did not immediately engage the LG, instead he floated over his left shoulder and then sped back over the top of the vacated previous R-A gap. So if we discount the boundary edge who is dropping into his dual role, we've really managed to generate pressure on a 4 man send. Remember what I said about coach Schwartz? This is in that same mold. Dialing up more "exotic" looks and still only sending 4. I don't sacrifice numbers in the passing game, I gain numbers in the blocking department because you've lent chip help to your tackles, and I either simulated or generate real pressure and results. This resulted in a bad throw and forced Okie State to punt. But here comes the problems when you take a great idea like this, then try to saturate your defense with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-snap gives a certain Over front, nickel look. Linebackers not quite playing Tan-tan (stacked over DT, DT) --------------------------------------------------------------------- You can see the T-T stunt and crash put on the interior. This time, Perrion gets to loop around for a change. Only this call never had a chance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -T-T stunt away from a designed 2nd and long QB rollout. Anytime you go against a designed rollout like this, sometime to extend the pocket and attempt to buy time, you usually have 3 things in your favor. - Reduced numbers in the passing game. Offenses use more bodies on the rollout for the designed protection therefore fewer receivers in the immediate pattern. - Reduced field size. Designed rollouts are almost always half field reads. Concepts saying it's A or B to this side of the field. Barring designed misdirection that is. So you feel a hell of a lot better flowing with the QB action. - A lot of QB's don't pace their steps and can either outrun their protection or find themselves to the sidelines WAY too fast. This means front side pressure can spook a QB and not allow downfield shots to really have a chance to develop. But OU's defense was garbage this past season, so none of those things are a problem. I even put in yellow the voided rush line Perrion could have attacked and possible snuffed this out on. ------------------------------------------------------------------- One more before I get to PW the individual... After the 1st quarter, Okie State did a good job with adjustments and began using more early down play action, designed rollouts, read options aaaaaaand..... Sprint Draw.... Instead of playing straight up assignment pre/post snap, we get a double stunt call that was only half-ass executed to the boundary. ------------------------------------------------------------- PW and his man do a decent job at the speed of their call, can't say the same for the boundary edge and his man. ----------------------------------------------- So you have a clean pocket from which this could have been an RPO, no edge forcing a step up and no interior collapse. --------------------------------------------------------------- No lane integrity and an easy sprint to the 2nd level by the HB. Sure you can say Grinch was anticipating Okie State being more aggressive and throwing closer to halftime, but this and the reads were the Cowboys staple as early as the 1st play of the game and only increased their volume of calls as the game wore on. The Oklahoma State offense wasn't anything to write home about this past season. They were competent enough, but unspectacular and would find themselves in long scoring droughts. Alex Grinch and the OU defense basically made every average offense they faced well above average. https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2022-01-11 Their defensive rankings clocked in around 70th in PPG, 82nd in Total Yardage allowed, 33rd against the run and 113th in total pass defense. In short, it was easy to move the ball on a defense obsessed with simulating pass pressure that they never had to bother with in the beginning. For a coach who prides himself on simplifying his defensive calls, his secondary and their simplicity was routinely left exposed by the bind he would put the front 7 in with the unnecessary amount of flash vs effective. Now, I said all that to get to my next post, about Perrion himself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 2/2 For all the smoke coming from former OU players about Alex Grinch, there appears to be a great deal of fire to match. And, while I won't claim to be in their heads, I think I fully understand what our coaching staff saw with Perrion, how to warranted a further look and how they saw a coach fail to utilize his best defenders best ability, then to wrap it all up by not building your defense around it. When Grinch went away from his slants and stunts, the OU front 7, namely PW, were pretty damn effective getting into gaps and changing rushing lanes. Basically when he got the hell out of his own way, what I ended up seeing was a player who could have more easily conserved play calling resources and snaps for his coach had he let him off the chain more frequently. ------------------------------------------------------ Another quasi double-eagle look. ------------------------------------------------------- In the zone to, PW's job is to not let this lineman cross his face and get picked up by backside zone step. That's how huge creases for Nick Chubb are opened. I tossed in some other assignments for perspective on the edge. ------------------------------------------------------------- Perrion wins past and through the gap and starts moving into the backfield. --------------------------------------------------------------- PW clearly wins his assignment and is what forces the RB to take his first cut at negative depth and having zero lateral or forward speed. -------------------------------------------------------------------- These were brief flashes I saw playing within the structure at OU, despite it not always been beneficial structure for PW's talents. I honestly believe he was incredibly overlooked by most front offices until the senior bowl. And credit to the Browns coaches and staff for identifying this guy then going back on the film. But I know exactly when they saw something from said senior bowl during the individual drills. ----------------------------------------------- I'm too lazy to look it up and I won't ask Woody, but I'm pretty sure that's Stuber from *ichigan at RG. Solid player, nothing spectacular. Will likely kick in at full time guard if he starts in the NFL. But he'll make an NFL final roster I'm sure. Anywho. Great balance and control from our RG, square arms ready to make his initial punch at PW. You can tell this kid has put in some time at OT. But PW gets to show 1 on 1 fundamentals he didn't display in the 3 games I watched at OU. First being, his hands are up, active and ready to work. ------------------------------------------------------- Stuber may land the initial punch and extension, but PW has a great counter swipe from left to right en route. Good weight distribution and Winfrey's not launching himself into his blocker. He's actively working to win the gap instead of occupying the man. -------------------------------------------------------------- It's fundamental and needs work, but it's a punch and pull. Perrion needs to be a bit better at "knifing" his right arm back through which will naturally square his shoulders and upper body once he has shed a blockers hands. Try it yourself sitting down, turn your shoulders right, then take your right hand across your chest in a 'stab' motion. Naturally starts to square out your shoulders. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Not completely getting his shoulders square here hurts your balance a bit, and Stuber rides out contact. But it does display the agility and control this big man has. Also highlights great knee bend for someone 6'4 295lbs. ------------------------------------------------------------------- PW regains his full balance and shows some bend and dip around the corner in this drill. Can't stress it enough, all while dealing with contact redirecting him the whole time, this is good balance, agility, control and strength. It isn't perfect, but it's a foundation to greater things. -------------------------------------------------------------- Last group of stills and something I never saw from him at OU. ------------------------------------------- This is where Winfrey might make the most noticeable impact his first year. Interior pass rush. ---------------------------------------------------------- Fires to the guards outside shoulder and gets him attack his right shoulder and chest with his left arm. It isn't much, but if you're a guard you really don't want to lose any ability to control your own inside shoulder. -------------------------------------------------- PW feels the gaurd being high on his outside shoulder and uses that momentum to roll back to his inside off of the contact balance. ------------------------------------------------------------ It isn't the cleanest footwork, won't fool anyone thinking it's Dwight Freeney. But it's pretty damn good too. Not often you see that light footwork from an IDL. I know I have some reviews of Neil Ferrall trying and failing pretty hard. Granted Ferrall is 30lbs heavier, have to distinguish between the position groups. But it's still a big man showing great balance and lateral agility. Biggest drawback to his move here that needs the most work, PW should have extended out his right arm away from him "fanned out" and used it sort of like Kobe when he would go to clear space for shooting. That way the guard can't do what he's about to do.... ------------------------------------------------------- ..... Latch on to your right shoulder and try to rip himself (or you) back into contact. Not always easy to draw a flag from this moment right here. But that arm usage is the difference between a player letting the guard fighting for his life and Aaron Donald ending his career early. ----------------------------------------------- It was still damn good and unexpected. I know, because I saw it, and Perrion's drill mates plus position coaches saw it. You can see the helmet slaps and then his position coach telling him exactly what I'm typing now - that right arm was all that saved the guard from having a fighters chance at not letting his QB get killed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- When I see someone claim a player, position group or side of the ball is being held back by coaching staff, I always make sure to double check my homework before I even think about agreeing. I've seen a lot of lazy players and excuses. It's something casually tossed out that VERY few offer any real evidence or conclusions on., especially with QB's. The Baker saga here is evidence of that alone. But the more I watched the more I saw the prototypical NFL 3-tech with Winfrey. Quick, powerful, violent, shades of technical, and a great motor. And the more I watched, the more I understood the growing frustration from the OU defensive players as well. Your coaching staff held you back from being a functional and possible above average unit, aside from putting the damper on individual play which helps lead to bigger NFL paydays. But I now see exactly the glimpses this front office did. I get it, I get this selection. Does Perrion solve our IDL issues? No. We still have another spot and some depth next to him that needs answering. But I'm more than willing to say that this is Berry's first value pick attempt at delivering a long term solution along the IDL instead of the recent trend of bringing in 1 year stop-gaps. I'm excited about this pick, you should be excited about this pick. And I can't wait to see what the early results and word in camp is, I'd bet the phrase "real deal" gets tossed around a few times. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 1/3 "A lot of people don't seem to understand, Prince could ball" - Charlie Murphy, Chappelle show when talking about Prince on the basketball court. I never gave Jacoby Brissett any mind. A journeyman QB, one who is going to have that career of longevity but unspectacular play. Aside from those times where he end up in the right place, at the right time, with the right team, and makes a little magic happen. The kind where maybe you get a team to a wildcard spot and then folks in town buy you your drinks because, let's be honest, it's the "little guys" that have the special memories in these cases. So I started watching him, and why the Patriots took a stab when he came out of NC State. And I found a quality player, who has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses of our dearly departed signal caller... minus a couple redemptive qualities. It isn't easy to always draw direct comparisons, but I found some similar offensive designs vs defensive designs that made drawing a parallel + seeing some light, much easier than I originally anticipated. Follow along for another read. I've made mention of Bakers struggles and trends. He LOVED locking into boundary throws, boundary throws to the left, missing to his right and one other I wasn't as big on but still mentioned - struggling against certain 3 deep and single high looks either pre-snap or shift. I noticed a good deal of the defenses the browns played would use 3 deep in their base looks, present a more clear 8 man front against the CLE running game on early downs and then play to deny home run shots. It's pretty classic case of not letting people get beat over the top. A defensive mindset Baker struggled to consistently exploit, but also consistently struggled to be on the same page as his receivers with. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to give you some Baker material first before moving on to Jacoby. Pre-season often doesn't get any easier in terms of the defenses you play. Very vanilla, just coaches working on fundamentals and who is playing with smarts and fire. I went ALL the way back to the dress rehearsal to point out just how bad and far back some of this stuff kept showing its head. CLE in an Ace set (same amount of receivers to each side of the formation) I will point out that the Z receiver (bottom of the screen) has a reduced split. He's just barely outside that hash. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Snap you get hard ball action and a 7 man protection plus whatever chip the back may get before he releases. - Both TE's are in to protect and, as far back as Freddy taking over midseason 2018, the Browns go back to securing the edges and working downfield. - Falcons send a "fire" pressure. 5th man and then a single high, 3 deep 3 under behind it. You can see the safety shifting to close the middle field and the field safety stepping down reading 2 to 1. If that TE to his side releases, he'll have to pick him up. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Just to show how clear the "picture" for the QB is. We have a quality pocket, not a body within 5 yards, and a solid understanding of what the defense has gone to post snap. At this point, the WILL backer hasn't continuing dropping in his hook zone or getting with in curl. He's eyeing up the track on the RB. So at worst he is flat footed and our X receiver is cleaning him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The backer that was somewhat, and I'm being generous by saying that, in the throwing lane is now stepping down to take DJ on his check. In yellow you'll see the X has read the DB leverage and is making himself a quality target. Sure, would I like him to break this a little more outside at the numbers, maybe? But if that throw is too far outside your'e going to the corner. If this ball is out now or even a half second before (like it should have been) then it's a big gain on 1st down against a defense denying the home run ball. This is how to punish 3 deep without going 20+ yards. Those 12-18 yard shots breaking under their CB's and safeties. ------------------------------------------------------------- Instead Baker does not take his shot, throws the check and it gets eaten up for like a 3 yard gain. This is where you think, "Ok, pre-season, not in the swing of it... I'm sure we need to get use to live action and getting our eyes faster" Sure, I guess I'll give you that, as much as I really just don't want to for a QB against one of the worst NFL defenses and in his 4th year. But I need to remind of that "trend" part when it comes to things. Once is just an occurrence, twice establishes a trend. Another early down ball action call with a post snap shift using "heavier" personnel. ------------------------------------------------------------------- - Quality ball fake. Linebackers that were 3-4 yards of LOS were all sucked in. - Field corner is in bail - Hitman Harry moves to close the middle field and is staying overtop Odell. Keep in mind, as much as I love Harrison's game, I understand his limits in coverage as well. He isn't unbeatable, just ask the Eagles. - Njoku is running up the seam and forcing the safeties to communicate their pass off. - Odell understands the CB's leverage - high and outside, so at this point if Harrison isn't playing a rat or low hole, you're major and only concern is the window a linebacker can get under. --------------------------------------------------- - Post snap and our picture becomes more clear. Baker is giving this clarity and a great deal of pocket integrity. - Odell see's Harrison continue overtop and middle field. - Field corner is high and outside. - Linebackers aren't in the throwing window ------------------------------------------------------------------- - Odell see's DB's climbing and throttles down. - Hook LB's turn to locate Njoku is is drawing both of their eyes - Bryant has widened the curl/flat linebacker to the field - Pocket is good... pocket is great. Another example of a body not being within 4-5 yards. B - Ball SHOULD be gone. Even if you throw this to Odell's right shoulder, he has enough time to recover. ------------------------------------------------------------------- - Odell has broken is vertical off, stems back down into a wide open throwing lane. - Baker still has a great pocket but elects to take the farthest and widest possible throw to his most unathletic option in the pattern. - I have zero explanation for this thought process. But it is another one of the failed opportunities Baker had to drive this ball downfield and to punish a defense for their preferred method of limiting the Browns vertical passing game while committing bodies to the run. Baker doesn't like throwing against 3 deep coverages off ball action. Or at least, there are concepts and reads he isn't comfortable or capable of executing at the level needed vs certain variations of 3 deep. But he can throw some half-field reads using Floods, so long as the space is disgusting. I did a nice breakdown of that during the first Ravens game. But there are only so many softballs and easy things a coach can dial up for you. If the defense knows you like acting their preferred coverages but only have a couple moves in which to do it, they'll cue on those plays and adjust accordingly. This is at least a dozen times I saw this watching over the season on balls that should have been straight gimmies by any good NFL QB. And I'll disarm ANY response to this if your rebuttal is "ODELL DROPS PASSES".... Yeah, and I chunk golf shots when I have to sit a half hour and let a group of old guys play through. If you believe in passing rhythm, then you acknowledge shooters rhythm and catching rhythm as well. This was the only place this ball should have gone and Baker either didn't see or elected not to throw it. If Baker was desperate to prove Odell was a problem, something he claimed the opposite of publicly, then he should have fired this ball out and made Stefanski deal with the problem. In short, no more bullshit. If you think this type of throw in this window is THAT god damn difficult, let me give you a one Brian Hoyer hitting a similar post snap read being in sync with Travis Benjamin against Cincy. It's a single high that Travis breaks back down the stem because he can't take the top off. Hoyer reads it, Travis reads it, and he delivers. This was Brian Hoyer in year 1 under Shanny and year 1 as the full time starter. Both worth pointing out. Please fast forward to @4:43 in the clip. BUT, Baker can go against Cover 2 looks though..... 2 high shell pre-snap ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Good ball fake with a 7 man protection --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Baker hits his back foot, has plenty of space and time to survey. - Field corner checks to re-route Odell. Big cover 2 tip. Or man under trail ------------------------------------------------------- - Yellow explains it all. But Odell gets room to roam after the re-route. Harrison Smith gave him more than enough space to leverage whatever route he wanted - Njoku is holding the boundary safety running right down the middle - Can't stress the amount of time to decide and throw here ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post snap image is damn near the same as the pre-snap image. 5 under 2 deep - cover 2. - Field corner has fallen off Odell - Baker feels comfortable with the space he's given. I should fucking hope so, in NFL terms it's the grand canyon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Big gain getting the ball underneath the safeties. My issue is that it shouldn't take this level of setup for any good NFL QB to exploit it. Again, only so much I can toss up softballs. If Baker had that kind of space against 3 deep, why didn't he pull the trigger? I default to my previous theory, I think there are a good handful of C3 looks he struggles against. I say that now, but knowing the Patriots game is on deck shortly after the Vikings win makes me believe this further, considering that was almost exclusively all they ran. For me, it became a processing and understanding issue with our once QB. If Brian Hoyer can do it, then the #1 overall pick should be able to thread it. I would have had much less problem with Baker if he had the understanding, but just lacked the processing speed. Because at that point I would ask what more could the coaches do to get his eyes in the right places first and foremost, or coming off of his #1 and understanding split field coverage differences without panic. Sorry for beating the dead horse, I had to make my point(s) about Baker for reference. Onto Jacoby.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 2/2 This is something I expect us to show more frequently under Jacoby and then with Deshaun when he's back... ball action fakes and more emphasis on the short/intermediate passing game. But instead of ball action as we've seen from under center, from a more familiar gun look using split zone and U lead/sift as the action. To help clear that one up. By 'familiar', I mean designs Deshaun is more familiar with as the Texans coaching staff used them quite a bit, same can be said for Jacoby in MIA. Split zone is the oline blocking in zone one way, while a TE, FB, Hback, whatever, comes across against the flow and either kicks out, cuts or chips and releases against the backside pursuit. First frame gives the newest rage of the Z or H receiver in motion, the idea being to draw a linebacker or safety in a match zone. At worst moving a man defender out of the playside from a run call. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Jacoby on the ball action with the TE coming down the line to pick off the backside edge. A lot of coaches call it a sift block. By "alot of coaches", I know the Shanahan system is fond of that term. - Then you have Jacoby executing his ball fake, eyes on the MIKE LB reading his depth and wanting that frontsize boundary throw on the... ok, lets say slant, I suppose. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - My gripe is that Brissett hangs onto this read just a bit too long for my liking. Which is the biggest parallel I have so far between him and Baker. The only difference being that Jacoby is under his first year with this Dolphins team and this is his first game starting for them. I would expect this level of dropped-off play from my backup without real snaps and live fire. But I was pleasantly surprised at what the rest of this play showed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - JB identifies that he's likely facing Cover 4 to that side. The LB is clearly the window, and he only has 1 receiver in that defensive triangle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - So he resets all the way from the boundary to the field. Identifies the safety and the leverage of the corner. He reads that it's a split field call - over 4 to one side, cover 2 to the field. I've touched on defensive triangles once or twice before, but they help tip QB's and receivers off to coverage when you can read and understand DB leverage. In this case, when Jacoby turns to his right and reads the field, you get S high and inside, CB low and outside, LB inside... that almost always tells you Cover 2 rules. Keep in mind this is off a post snap shift, Raiders show and play a TON of single high coverages. Sometimes even if it's a complete detriment to their own defense, which is probably why their coaching staff is all gone now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Then something I haven't seen happen in quite some time with our QB'ing situation. A passer who is actively manipulating zone defenders with his eyes and not relying entirely on the ball fake. Jacoby see's the hook LB and knows that window has to be open. At this point he wants to drive the ball downfield against cover 2. It's a hell of a throw to hit a flat receiver and not expect a CB to recover against it to the far side. Not saying it can't be done, but that isn't the type of passer JB is. - He actually gives the full shoulder AND head nod to draw both defenders to his outlet, flat receiver. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - At this point pressure has arrived just as Jacoby was coming back to throw the downfield square in. At this time Jacoby slips from pressure, brings his eyes back downfield and completes the throw to the man he was intending before moving off the spot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What I love is that Jacoby uses his mobility as a secondary and doesn't over do it. He isn't dropping his eyes and scrambling full speed outside. He's actively seeking a different launch platform to reset his throw off of. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally getting back to that inside receiver on the switch to the field. JB puts the ball low and inside to keep it away from the LB and away from the inside Safety. It's quality QB play from somebody you're really not expecting much from. Sure, would I love to see JB process this a lot faster... yes. Am I expecting him to? No. He's my backup who likely didn't take many, if any, 1st team reps in camp. More importantly, what I see is a QB who is understanding what he's looking at, even if it's not at the speed necessary to be really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 3/3 I was encouraged by JB's work against single high man along with that above with those split field coverages (two different coverages, split by the middle of the field. Cover 6 is an example. Cover 4 to one side, cover 2 to the other) This REALLY helped show me a new side of JB and to give me some ease. - A type of dig/switch concept along with having that #3 inline TE running a deep over. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - This play was almost fucked at the snap. The DB sitting over the TE had the green light to go and the TE went to help the RT downblock during the ball fake. --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Jacoby plants his back foot, trusts his back and TE to recover and senses pressure. Cool and collectively he starts his pocket climb as pressure is directed past him. The whole time not dropping his eyes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - While climbing, Jacoby is working towards the pressure side expecting his 1 on 1 with Gieseki. He reads man, but the TE staying to help his LT means the coverage he would have drawn is now free to sit underneath that deep over. So his primary is technically doubled covered now. But he still identifies man coverage and works well in tight spaces. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ JB resets to his right knowing the middle of the field will be vacant at intermediate depth. Only issue is that RG crossing his face is in the throwing window. So he has to hang tight, make his sutbles moves and anticipate his throwing point/window/lane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - The RG has cleared past Jacoby and he's hanging out past the right shoulder of the center. Finds his windows and fires to Devante' Parker stemming his route down and inside. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- No further words needed here past the yellow. Yes, the post Baker era is going to start... weird. I get it and I get the nerves. But I'm here to tell you, don't be afraid of this team finding success, and don't be afraid of this team starting Brissett. Of course the health of himself and his Oline is also a given. But I see a QB who understands the things unfolding in front of him and plays much more like a capable traditional pocket passer. His eyes don't drop needlessly and his ability to survey the field from tighter spaces already looks a fair bit better than Mayfields. Which is sad because that's not something I want to say. Yes, does processing speed need to be increased? Sure. Time and reps might be just what he needs. It's incredibly possible Baker comes back here and kicks our ass week 1. It's the NFL. The Panthers are also setting up there offense in a manner that does exploit ours - interior running game that builds play action. Both things Baker has shown the need to have in order to operate. If the IDL was where I'd like to see it, I'd bet money Browns by 10 week 1, but I can't because I actually gamble and tend to make educated decisions. By that same mold, this defensive staff knows Bakers weaknesses like their own. And I'd venture anything we've seen our opponents throw at him previously will all be on the table week 1. To me it comes down to talent and execution. The Panthers have the resources to out talent us at IDL, the Browns have the resources to slow down the Panthers passing game with our superior secondary. Great contrasting of styles. But do not be afraid of Jacoby leading this team. I know this won't be popular to say, I'm beginning to see evidence that would help me build a genuine belief that he can/could put up comparable numbers to Baker, should he digest the language, understand the structure, and begin to develop a decent rapport with his receivers. Flirting with a 62% completion rate, 240ypg and 11:6 ish maybe 12:7 TD-INT ratio is looking REALLY realistic at this moment. It's because of my watching the last day or so, that I know the Browns won't go after Jimmy G should Deshaun be out more than 6 games. This front office knows JB can handle a decent dose of this offense if given the time to execute. The plays I've shown here are a sample of what I've wanted Baker to do routinely with this team for so long. And I'm not mincing words when I say, if he had, he would very likely still be QB'ing this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 hours ago, nickers said: Briskett is trash... Puleeze spare us the bullshit... There's a reason he became available... because no one else wanted him... Well since we likely will get to see him lead the Browns for at least 6-8 games, it should be interesting to see if tia's analysis is right or if your conclusion is right. The gauntlet has be thrown.🧤🤗 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 I know we're all focused on the QB situation and the high(er) profile picks. But I tend to put my eyes on the trenches first. Especially in pre-season where, as a coach or evaluator, you aren't focused so much on complexity and high level as you would be focused on fundamentals, intensity, and motor. Those things tend to lend themselves to identifying then developing your chosen talent. By my count, Perrion had 4 pressures, a pass deflection and force a throw away. That isn't including the holding call he should have drawn as well. Let's take a peak at some of the pass rush prowess we've heard about (and I've hinted at) Per NFLdraftbuzz.com Winfrey doesn’t have a great set of pash rush skills and is primarily a run defender - must improve if he wants to be an all down player in the NFL He’s got the physical part of the game down pat but could control blockers with better technique far more often than he does. Very first snap of his career. As expected, lined up in that 3-tech role. -------------------------------------------- Fires off and wins over the LG pretty much immediately. The most important bits I've put in yellow -------------------------------------------------------- The leg drive and motor never stopped. All while maintaining great base and level. Perrion never extended beyond his stability and balance, and when he got contact, drove the OG back by getting up under his pads/shoulders. Ideal technique for a 6'4 IDL. Because of this, there's no room for Lawrence to climb the pocket. So once he's set, if he feels pressure it's either hang in and force a throw, or drop your eyes and attempt to run to space. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perrion finishes this play off by driving the guard into Lawrence who forces the ball out early on coverage that is playing heavy at the chains. Ball even comes out a little errant. But that was 2nd and 6, still a down you have to respect the running game. So you don't get the chance to really fire off and scream upfield. So I ran across this gem a bit later and I realized something after the play was over, this is Woods specifically moving around his rookie, this rookie, into favorable matchups. -Occupy your Oline. Show the 5th over the gap bubble and make that LG account for him if he attacks. - Give your edges a wider alignment, force that inline TE to work for his chip, and if they double the 3tech with the RT and RG, then you get your edge rusher in a 1 on 1 with the TE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - LB drops - TE Chips, RT widens to pickup edge after chip - Togy slants to pick up the center and catches the LG after his eyes look for work now that the LB has bailed - Gives Pdub a true 1 on 1 with the RG ------------------------------------------------------------------ More of the same since the word go. PW wins with all the fundamentals and intensity you want to see from a young IDL ----------------------------------------------------- Ends up absolutely mauling the guard. Like... this guy never had a shot. Just like the first snap, Winfrey walks the Guard straight back into the QB. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - QB can't escape outside, has no choice but to eat the play. You don't need anything sexy in the bag to be an effective golfer, provided you master your fundamentals, reads and the clubs you own. I think that's where a lot of these scouting services get things wrong. Either that, or they did this write up before the senior bowl. Because I've found an above average pass rusher from that interior spot. And while I acknowledge it's the Jags Oline, their starters are average to slightly above. For any rookie to come in and so clearly win those reps really should speak to his ability at this stage. Tyler Huntley isn't a bad center and he was abused by PW quite a bit. Per NFL.com's assessment of Perrion. "However, he's frequently late off the ball. A tight lower half and disappointing lateral agility make him a liability against move-blocking schemes. He does, however, have an explosive get-off and heavy hands. Is that so, NFL.com? Let's see how those runs go. Jags try to get heavy with 12 personnel in a Y-Y look. -------------------------------------------------------- A tight YY inside zone with a backside sift. Not exactly forcing PW to much THAT much laterally, like you're familiar seeing with the Browns outside zone calls. But for evaluators to be so split saying he's a run defender only, or some to say he's a liability against the run, his play sure tends to show the opposite of both. While PW might be a bit over-extended here, I spoke about his agility and balance for a guy his size. The next frame really highlights that. --------------------------------------------- Re-balances himself, starts to drop his pad level and use those heavy hands to extend the guard on the zone step away from him. Not only is he doing that, but like I put in the yellow column, really pay attention to where his eyes are. He's winning his assignment and looking for more. He wants to stack, shed and affect the ball carrier. IDL who do that sort of things consistently get paid. --------------------------------------------------------------- Front side B gap is gone. Frontside gap bubble is being watched like a hawk and Wino does his job of taking on the backside cut without crashing so far down the line that he opens up the bounce back. ---------------------------------------------------------- RB has to cut, almost completely lateral, at a negative depth from the LOS. 3 yards by my count. When you're having to jump cut and try to hit the backside against an NFL defense, even the average to poor groups will track this down. Which is exactly what the Browns did. But Perrion blowing up that frontside B gap was the snowball that turned this into an avalanche. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ok so what would Jacksonville's counter be to a simple inside zone call? They ended up going back to that YY set, except having a twins open right. I will point out, unlike the previous Over calls from coach Woods (3 tech to strength), Togiai would usually play a more 1i look. Here he's almost heads up on the center, closer to a 0 tech. Just subtle adjustments. --------------------------------------------------- Jags responded by throwing a Duo design at Perrion. For those not familiar, a duo (like I put in yellow) is just throwing a double team at the frontside 3 tech. It's a pretty staple counter to defenses running these over fronts dating back to the 90's Cowboys. If you want that 3 tech to bit 295lbs and a pass rushing threat, then offenses are going to test how he handles two bodies thrown at him. ------------------------------------------------------------ Perrion has no choice but to take on and fight like hell to get through this contact. He isn't built to anchor against doubles like this. Which isn't a game breaker, because when you so clearly and immediately have to double, you open clear gaps for linebackers to read and attack. As I pointed out below... Young JoK got in there immediately, but both Taki and Delpit had clean lanes in their run fits. Even if that Z receiver comes to pick of Taki and seal him inside, If the backside edge holds his ground and doesn't get too far upfield (Looking at you, Wright) then you've cut off the backside bounce. ------------------------------------------------------------ Because of Perrion's fight, the guard can't peel off the double team fast enough to pick off Jacobs, he'd have to go after Delpit and pray Etienne makes someone miss in the hole. Z receiver is late and Taki still has free feign to attack downhill, although he's a bit late and I'd prefer him to be more aggressive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Taki takes off and beats the receiver, Jacobs gets in the gap and gets Etienne low. So you have primary and secondary contact on the RB. It's a couple yards past the LOS, and yes I'd love for them to trigger downhill faster. I understand Travis isn't a big RB, and he can make you miss laterally with his quickness. But he's also a RB coming off a season ending injury, so I'm going to make him beat me first before I just sit more patient and wait for his first cut. These duo runs are money for a lot of teams and generally they want more than 3 yards out of them. But because of the lanes our young IDL keeps clean for our LB's to work freely, you don't get the offensive efficiency you would expect from these designs. So that's PW taking on an inside zone singled up from a YY look, and him taking on a true double team from that same frontside look as well. Both results the coaches I'm sure are more than pleased with ----------------------------------------------------------- I don't like getting ahead of myself. Getting excited over 1 pre-season game is exactly how you get into the mindset that Brady Quinn was going to be a gem. But this is different, even given the quality of competition. You see a defensive coach moving his chess pieces around to his advantage, and Woods has pretty early identified Perrion as one of those pieces. In that same mold, you see the Jags coaches adjust their calls and how they handle blocks up front, quite early to (1st quarter) in order to keep ahead of the chains, limit the damage from the Browns interior, and gain the yards they expect these plays to do. So far, Winfrey has been more than just being limited to the label of "3 tech". He has been a gap-shooting disruptor both upfield and laterally in the passing game AND running game. You don't see him playing down to his competition or speed, but playing at the level he started with as far back as the Senior Bowl. I suspect Woods saw that in camp and that's why he saw snaps with the 1's early. I'm also aware the Browns IDL group isn't particular deep or overwhelming in any sense. He's only going to get better with time, as he showed up Taven Bryan pretty bad when he got the same level of work. So the coaches are identifying who their cornerstone pieces are early. Jordan Elliot had his moments, so did Togiai. But I need to see more from the rest of the group with consistency. It's up to the front office and Andrew Berry to make sure that this effectiveness isn't offset by having depth and talent issues along the rest of the Dline. My biggest take away from all this - I wouldn't be out on too far of a branch in my belief that Perrion might already be the best IDL we have on roster.... and we're less than a week into his professional career. I'm thrilled to see what happens when you put him next to Myles and Clowney. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 tia, I'll write down the times these plays run and watch for them on the replay this coming Wed. I thought PW was a steal in this draft where we got him. Pretty sure you felt the same way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 Excellent insights again Tia ^^^ I can remember a P.Winfrey similar framed former Colts player in Denico Autry getting those same bad tags... High motored DT D. Autry is now at Tennessee... 113 pro football games later Total tackles: 233 Sacks: 39.5 Forced fumbles: 3 Fumble recoveries: 3 Pass deflections: 23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 1 hour ago, gumby73 said: Excellent insights again Tia ^^^ I can remember a P.Winfrey similar framed former Colts player in Denico Autry getting those same bad tags... High motored DT D. Autry is now at Tennessee... 113 pro football games later Total tackles: 233 Sacks: 39.5 Forced fumbles: 3 Fumble recoveries: 3 Pass deflections: 23 Denico is a quality player. If Perrion ends up even at that level, then it's a great investment for the draft slot we got him in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korsou Dawg Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 19 hours ago, tiamat63 said: I'm thrilled to see what happens when you put him next to Myles and Clowney. Thanks for the review. Couldn't agree more with the last sentence! A D-line that strikes fear in the hearts of opposing O-lines and QBs alike would be a treat. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 For fun, I wanted to check in on Baker and how he looked. Got some mixed results. The good. Baker on 3rd and 3. Carolina with 11 personnel in a 3x1. -------------------------------------------------------- Coach Rule dials up a mesh design, with the usual deeper 3rd progression behind it on some type of stab or square in. The RB runs a bit of a wheel though. I think it's a nice draw up because the RB can draw and identify both the LB tracking him, and occupy or clear out any flat defender. The MIKE is in track on the RB, and he gets a bit of a pick from the #1 releasing inside. So the LB has to work through that contact to pickup his assignment. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I've got a nickel riding out too much contact and a MIKE backer struggling to get high and outside. Because if this is CMC then it's a HUGE gain. Hell, I'd just flip it out to him if it was Mr. White Lightening. You'll notice the WILL backer (bottom red) floating in his hook zone though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The nickel is following the #2 inside, while the WILL is passing off the crosser moving in front of him to said nickel. So you have confusion of assignment and late communication. And the only flat defender would have been the MIKE, but he's in man tracking the RB. ------------------------------------------------------- Baker see's it, anticipates the throw and puts it in front of the shallow drag giving his man plenty of chance to maximize that YAC. Baker also does this while the pocket is starting to collapse, credit him for hanging in there and finding his receiver. Carolina picks up the first down, 16 yards, and the drive continues. Good design, good execution, good read. The familiar/bad. Much like the Browns, when you have an offense with a QB who works best off play action, and you want to take your calculated shots, you take them on early downs. Carolina still in 11 personnel with a stack to the field. If you're asking why the window dressing...? Could be for any number of reasons. Any time you get a stack like this, you force eyes to be a little wider and communication from your DB's to be a little more sharp. You could get a screen, you could get a rb, you could get some route combos that expose you back inside like a follow route. There are various benefits to these types of wrinkles when you play teams you think you have a handle on their offense or defensive calls. ---------------------------------------------------------- Remember what I said about the relationship to coverage triangles and diagnosing things pre, then post snap? These sorts of things are no different than Poker.... they're tells. Not always 100%, that's what post snap confirmation is for. But this is information any QB has to digest then process in real time, real fast. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WSH shows a cover 6 flavor... qtr/qtr half. So the boundary safety will pickup the #2 to his side if that #2 presses vertical. Usually past 8-9 yards. Looks like cover 2 to the field. These things are all good and well, but when you're playing you have to overlap what your routes are against the coverage you're facing. Think like taking pieces of a map that isn't complete, then placing one of the other to form a clear picture... yeah, that. The field safety in cover 2, he's going to read for anything vertical to his side first and foremost. If the #1 or #2 to his side fly's by the corner or nickel defender, he has to leverage and deny them deep. ----------------------------------------------------------------- There's a few moving parts in this next frame. One, the route concept is pretty dope, IMHO. You get deep crossers look, but you reduce the depth of their call to 12-15 yards...ish. The crossers put so much cheese in front of you that it helps to hold any any middle field safety in a cover 1, cover 3 or this case a cover 6. The stress will be insane. What's even more cool is that the crosser from field to boundary is coming from the WR stack, so if there's a bad communication there and the curl flat defender to the boundary is sucked up, that guy is wide open. And finally you have the corner at the top, high and slightly outside eye. The crossers really invite those safety's to step down and take them. So it's great for single shots to the outside. There's only one caveat to this design against this particular coverage.....the field safety in cover 2. ---------------------------------------------------------- Baker reads the boundary safety, that isn't an issue here. So he knows he has one on one with Anderson and the boundary corner. He see's middle field open, and he isn't wrong "perse". The beginning to this issue I hinted at above is the field safety. When you're coached as a safety that fast threats to your side aren't going vertical, that almost always means you can expect something backside. Cover 2, cover 3... doesn't matter. To quote Ghostbusters, "it's more of a guideline than a rule", but trust me it's a damn good guideline. So Bobby McCain (I didn't circle him, my bad) at the bottom playing the 2 high to his side, knows some shit is up. He peeks all the way back inside, opens his hips and knows he's going to start rolling to close the middle of the field. Even if something comes back across his way shallow to intermediate, that corner sitting in a flat will get depth and rob it. -------------------------------------------------------------- - Baker is waiting for the stab to the outside, and once he reads the break he's launching the ball. - Robbie makes his move - Baker doesn't double check for the backside safety. Jump back to what I said in the frame just above. Safety's are called the QB of the defense. So as a QB you have to believe they're also reading what you are. You have to know their rules and how they operate. So if you don't have receivers to that side occupying his responsibility, then he's going to look for work. - McCain opens his hips and is screaming deep to close the middle of the field. He knows what's coming. I personally feel he's an underrated DB. He gets some knocks because he isn't very big, 5'9 190lbs... but Earl Thomas was the same size. ----------------------------------------------------------------- - Baker gets hit a moment before he releases the ball. As a result he can't quite step into the throw. I don't think anyone will argue about the strength of his arm though. - Corner speed cuts to recover, he's high but outside of the WR. Perfect for being beaten back inside on something like a skinny po. - McCain has sniffed this backside shot out, hips open and he's tracking the ball. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -The ball ends up a yard or two short - Corner recovers - McCain recovers and puts a huge hit on Anderson. The corner damn near comes down with this INT. ---------------------------------------------------------------- There's a few things to unpack here. - I have trouble grading this play in a vacuum. Mostly because I've watched almost every snap Baker has taken on coaches film the last 4 years. And this play is oddly familiar to me from start to finish. Where some see this as a single occurrence, I see this as a point on a graph... dots connecting to establish a direction or pattern. - Baker didn't find the other safety. You can't take things like that for granted in the NFL, not against the quality of DB you'll face. Almost nothing is THAT open at this level. - While I won't judge Baker too harshly because of the pressure, still have to account for him not identifying and manipulating defenders. -The Carolina Oline is going to be a real problem for them. I also think that means a couple things. Because of Carolina's pass pro, you no have a good deal of route concepts off the board with spotty pass pro. So you're going to find out just how good or bad of a QB Baker is when he's forced to play as methodical as possible in tight spaces. Seriously, the guy has enjoyed the luxury of elite pass pro half his career in Cleveland and, at worst, average pass protection the other half. For reference in 2021: Baker was blessed with the 2nd best pass blocking interior line in all of football. This is a wet dream for every QB. As a collective, the Browns pass block win rate in 2021 vs the Panthers. 1. Los Angeles Rams, 68% 2. Kansas City Chiefs, 68% 3. Philadelphia Eagles, 67% 4. Cleveland Browns, 67% 5. Green Bay Packers, 66% ....... 29. Carolina Panthers, 50% This season more than ever, Baker will have to rely on his football IQ and execution. He doesn't have the protection in front of him that he's become accustomed to. Now I'm sure grading services like PFF will tag Mayfield more favorably from week 1. Either average or above average in this case for this game. I suspect because their curve involves the pressure affecting that throw. But like I said... vacuum. I can't do that because I see, and have seen, the same pattern for 3 & 1/2 years. I know Baker didn't pickup McCain and if there was no pressure on that throw, I'm not entirely convinced it still doesn't end up as a PBU. As of right now, the Browns have an incredibly favorable week 1 matchup. As of right now.... I say that because what concerns me the most when defensive game planning for the Panthers isn't Robbie Anderson, Baker or DJ Moore. It's McCaffrey. If healthy, he will be Bakers best friend, giving him the ability to let his RB read and adjust in space from the backfield on those HBC concepts. All Baker will have to do is put the ball on him. You can't let a player with those abilities beat your backers or safeties, pickup the tough yards, move the chains and extend drives. Because Carolina sure as hell doesn't have the IOL necessary to exploit the Browns limited IDL talent if they pound the rock, and you can forget about them holding onto the ball and pressing it downfield if their OT play is anything like what I saw this first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 @gumby73 said there was a "cat fight" for that 6th corner spot between Herb Miller and Lavert Hill. Herb did himself no favors this past weekend in winning that fight. Anatomy of a play, how the Eagles used one of Stef's favorite early down concepts to their own treat. 1st and 10, neutral side of the field, 21 personnel and catching the Browns in a single high 3 fire look. Pre-snap ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-snap defensive check in -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At the snap. Coverage tells. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Browns send a 3 fire pressure, Eagles bottle it all up. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "yankee" early down, 2 (sometimes 3rd on delay release) 21 personnel, ball action... a calculated deep shot off a high-low read. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The failed zone replacement. -Middle field safety steps down to pick up the deep over, that is the correct read. - Moffatt flattened his hips too much on the WR stabbing outside to sell that 7 route. So now he's no longer high on the WR, he's even at best. - Miller has chased the deep over too far, he's too steep in his pursuit across the field instead of flowing upfield with hips open. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This high-low read is based off the middle field safety, a "landmark" in distance and DB. In the frame below, the QB is well into his motion already, so he read this perfectly and was already in his windup when the WR was even with the DB's. We know the result. Miller did himself no favors on this. He chased that deep over too far and then took a poor angle to work cutting off that deepo. In this case, when the middle field safety steps down to take the deep over route, Miller is now tasked with zone replacement on the middle 1/3. So he has to climb and climb fast to cutoff anything coming backside. You might remember me mentioning that DB's are taught, safeties especially, when you aren't getting anything vertical your way, you need to expect something backside. You can see his eyes in these frames when he understands what's happening and that he isn't in a place to deny it like he needs to be. What makes it worse is that neither of these corners, Miller or Moffat, are starting NFL athletic for the position. They're 4.6 runners who lack serious makeup speed. So once you're beat, you're beat. There is no coming back from this. While PFF is correct in their assessment that Moffat is the secondary coverage in this and likely not assigned "blame" or a negative grade, he also has zero business being this low and slow against a 4.3 receiver. You have to at least put yourself in a position to be able to makeup SOME ground. And I get that you're playing to the field against a young QB and a young WR, so the threat of that 7 with all the space is real, which is why you stay high and keep expanding outside to the numbers. At worst you roll your hips that are already naturally going to open against either throw - the post or the flag. If I'm a coach, Miller is getting the brunt of this, but Moffatt isn't getting away from some chirping as well. Great call by the Eagles coaching staff, and outstanding execution by their young players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 re: the "arm tackle" on Schwartz. It's easy to pile on the guy, a lot of it is deserved... but the end around failure to be a bigger gain isn't on him. I believe it was @SdBacker80 who first mentioned it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I feel bad because this play right here, if it was a big gain, might help ease some pressure off Anthony. No different than a shooter going cold or a hitter in a slump. Find a play, find a gain, next thing you know you're in the flow of things and you're seeing the game again. This isn't on Schwartz, it was a GREAT call and a sweet design. #89 just failed to seal this corner who WAY over-pursued inside. You really want to give Schwartz a full head of steam and let him round this out, not have to sharply cut back upfield, especially inside the numbers. Build the alley and let him speed round his way outside the numbers. Force that safety to take the correct angle to the ball and tackle in space. I'm with you guys on some of the Schwartz critique, but this play I just can't follow you on. It wasn't on his shoulders and this is the correct type of way the coaches can get his type of speed the ball and make it effective. The rest of the blocking has to execute correctly in order for it to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2022 @TexasAg1969 So I was able to go through the late 1st half and 2nd half drives by Mond. At first I was taken back by him missing on a couple of the easier throws. There was a deep over to the far left hash against a 3fire coverage that was coming wide open and Mond just flat out didn't see it and instead went after a very risky throw deep down the boundary. The odd part was, it was in 21 personnel and with a strong ball action fake on favorable downs and distances. It was a flavor of a yankee concept, except the boundary receiver broke his route of from running the post. Either way, it was an easy and clean read from the additional body on the pressure giving Kellen more space to throw the intermediate stuff. Another one from a single back against a cover 2 pressure where he failed to pickup the flat defender (corner) and throw off him once he identified the safety's depth and leverage. Read corner - throw corner. That was again, off a ball action fake from under center. Filed both of those away for later. Here's the 1st (bad) throw in a quick summary. And that single high sitting on the boundary safety, to the weakside of the formation is a gift. Because if he doesn't leave that lane, you're throwing off his leverage. ------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- So that right there looks like shit. It's a simple read and throw. Even if you see the MFS stay flat footed, he's still high and sitting outside the middle hashes. Mond had zero reason to leave this deep over. Came across a few simple throws from empty where he would read and replace the MIKE backer, as he should do, for easy completions and gains. While I say easy, it was something a 1st round pick in Trey Lance failed to execute when I watched him in the pre-season last year. So in terms of relative rookie development, I'd value Mond ahead of Lance as a passer when you compare that sort of '101' type knowledge. Then came things I didn't expect. Raiders showed a quarters pre-snap on a 2nd and 7, then rolled into another 3fire pressure from the field side nickel. Kellen came off the read from the pressure side, looks like he understood the 3 deep, came all the way back to his right to his boundary X and TE running a hitch-dig combo. He's starting his throwing motion well before the receiver clears the shoulder of the MIKE backer expanding in his hook zone and puts a great anticipatory throw to the dig, outside of the backer, before the DB's and at 12 yards. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a great read and a great throw. While the pocket acumen needs cleaned up just a bit, at no point did I see Kellen bail from clean protection and/or show much in the way of happy feet. He's calm and collected working from behind his line. Shoulder direction and throwing motion also need a small tweak, but his technique isn't so poor that it would wildly effect his accuracy Then it sort of hit me, I don't think Kellen is accustomed to and comfortable running ball action from under center. Because his back is going to be turned to the line, so now he has to plant, get his head around and identify his landmarks + process a lot of information fast. I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying it isn't something he's good with. Mostly because of the offensive styles that dominate the CFB landscape not asking their QB's to do that. Which is sort of in reverse for a lot of QB's we see come out the past few years, who lack a lot of ability to show even a basic understanding of what is unfolding in front of them. Then delivering with poise, timing and anticipation. Granted, it's only 2 halves of ball, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw Kellen get time to work in the pocket and drive the ball downfield. He certainly didn't look completely out of place like Matt Corral and Malik Willis have shown this preseason. Both of them top 75 picks. I still have 2 games to go, but I've seen enough that would make me want to continue watching him to try and understand more about the Vikes decision. And given how fast the Browns snatched him up, I'm sure they saw a bit of what I'm talking about right now. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 2, 2022 Report Share Posted September 2, 2022 Fisher liked him because of the fact that little rattled him and he maintained the same demeanor regardless of the pressure. He also had the legs to take off on the planned QB draws and naked bootlegs. Under Fishes he became a more accurate passer than when he arrived as a freshman. Also became better at reading the defense with quick looks to the different receivers with scanning left to right or right to left as each play called for one direction or the other. He also got better at looking off DBs before going to the receiver quickly. Rarely got happy feet other than intentional climbing the pocket. He'd throw away the ball before taking the hit if no one got open. Anyway I'm glad we have him. Totally even keeled QB no matter the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 3, 2022 Report Share Posted September 3, 2022 On 7/22/2022 at 3:43 PM, tiamat63 said: 2/2 For all the smoke coming from former OU players about Alex Grinch, there appears to be a great deal of fire to match. And, while I won't claim to be in their heads, I think I fully understand what our coaching staff saw with Perrion, how to warranted a further look and how they saw a coach fail to utilize his best defenders best ability, then to wrap it all up by not building your defense around it. When Grinch went away from his slants and stunts, the OU front 7, namely PW, were pretty damn effective getting into gaps and changing rushing lanes. Basically when he got the hell out of his own way, what I ended up seeing was a player who could have more easily conserved play calling resources and snaps for his coach had he let him off the chain more frequently. ------------------------------------------------------ Another quasi double-eagle look. ------------------------------------------------------- In the zone to, PW's job is to not let this lineman cross his face and get picked up by backside zone step. That's how huge creases for Nick Chubb are opened. I tossed in some other assignments for perspective on the edge. ------------------------------------------------------------- Perrion wins past and through the gap and starts moving into the backfield. --------------------------------------------------------------- PW clearly wins his assignment and is what forces the RB to take his first cut at negative depth and having zero lateral or forward speed. -------------------------------------------------------------------- These were brief flashes I saw playing within the structure at OU, despite it not always been beneficial structure for PW's talents. I honestly believe he was incredibly overlooked by most front offices until the senior bowl. And credit to the Browns coaches and staff for identifying this guy then going back on the film. But I know exactly when they saw something from said senior bowl during the individual drills. ----------------------------------------------- I'm too lazy to look it up and I won't ask Woody, but I'm pretty sure that's Stuber from *ichigan at RG. Solid player, nothing spectacular. Will likely kick in at full time guard if he starts in the NFL. But he'll make an NFL final roster I'm sure. Anywho. Great balance and control from our RG, square arms ready to make his initial punch at PW. You can tell this kid has put in some time at OT. But PW gets to show 1 on 1 fundamentals he didn't display in the 3 games I watched at OU. First being, his hands are up, active and ready to work. ------------------------------------------------------- Stuber may land the initial punch and extension, but PW has a great counter swipe from left to right en route. Good weight distribution and Winfrey's not launching himself into his blocker. He's actively working to win the gap instead of occupying the man. -------------------------------------------------------------- It's fundamental and needs work, but it's a punch and pull. Perrion needs to be a bit better at "knifing" his right arm back through which will naturally square his shoulders and upper body once he has shed a blockers hands. Try it yourself sitting down, turn your shoulders right, then take your right hand across your chest in a 'stab' motion. Naturally starts to square out your shoulders. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Not completely getting his shoulders square here hurts your balance a bit, and Stuber rides out contact. But it does display the agility and control this big man has. Also highlights great knee bend for someone 6'4 295lbs. ------------------------------------------------------------------- PW regains his full balance and shows some bend and dip around the corner in this drill. Can't stress it enough, all while dealing with contact redirecting him the whole time, this is good balance, agility, control and strength. It isn't perfect, but it's a foundation to greater things. -------------------------------------------------------------- Last group of stills and something I never saw from him at OU. ------------------------------------------- This is where Winfrey might make the most noticeable impact his first year. Interior pass rush. ---------------------------------------------------------- Fires to the guards outside shoulder and gets him attack his right shoulder and chest with his left arm. It isn't much, but if you're a guard you really don't want to lose any ability to control your own inside shoulder. -------------------------------------------------- PW feels the gaurd being high on his outside shoulder and uses that momentum to roll back to his inside off of the contact balance. ------------------------------------------------------------ It isn't the cleanest footwork, won't fool anyone thinking it's Dwight Freeney. But it's pretty damn good too. Not often you see that light footwork from an IDL. I know I have some reviews of Neil Ferrall trying and failing pretty hard. Granted Ferrall is 30lbs heavier, have to distinguish between the position groups. But it's still a big man showing great balance and lateral agility. Biggest drawback to his move here that needs the most work, PW should have extended out his right arm away from him "fanned out" and used it sort of like Kobe when he would go to clear space for shooting. That way the guard can't do what he's about to do.... ------------------------------------------------------- ..... Latch on to your right shoulder and try to rip himself (or you) back into contact. Not always easy to draw a flag from this moment right here. But that arm usage is the difference between a player letting the guard fighting for his life and Aaron Donald ending his career early. ----------------------------------------------- It was still damn good and unexpected. I know, because I saw it, and Perrion's drill mates plus position coaches saw it. You can see the helmet slaps and then his position coach telling him exactly what I'm typing now - that right arm was all that saved the guard from having a fighters chance at not letting his QB get killed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- When I see someone claim a player, position group or side of the ball is being held back by coaching staff, I always make sure to double check my homework before I even think about agreeing. I've seen a lot of lazy players and excuses. It's something casually tossed out that VERY few offer any real evidence or conclusions on., especially with QB's. The Baker saga here is evidence of that alone. But the more I watched the more I saw the prototypical NFL 3-tech with Winfrey. Quick, powerful, violent, shades of technical, and a great motor. And the more I watched, the more I understood the growing frustration from the OU defensive players as well. Your coaching staff held you back from being a functional and possible above average unit, aside from putting the damper on individual play which helps lead to bigger NFL paydays. But I now see exactly the glimpses this front office did. I get it, I get this selection. Does Perrion solve our IDL issues? No. We still have another spot and some depth next to him that needs answering. But I'm more than willing to say that this is Berry's first value pick attempt at delivering a long term solution along the IDL instead of the recent trend of bringing in 1 year stop-gaps. I'm excited about this pick, you should be excited about this pick. And I can't wait to see what the early results and word in camp is, I'd bet the phrase "real deal" gets tossed around a few times. The biggest challenge I see with Winfrey in many of the pictures you've shown and on some occasions in the preseason is getting that pad height down at the snap a little more consistently. Being stronger than your opponent means nothing in the trenches if you forfeit your legs/base to him with a crappy pad height out of stance. This gets worse, not better as guys tire. Good news is this can be corrected. If they had any Okie Drills early on in camp where he faced Teller or Bitonio - a bad pad height would be a summer school session he'll never forget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 8:09 AM, Flugel said: The biggest challenge I see with Winfrey in many of the pictures you've shown and on some occasions in the preseason is getting that pad height down at the snap a little more consistently. Being stronger than your opponent means nothing in the trenches if you forfeit your legs/base to him with a crappy pad height out of stance. This gets worse, not better as guys tire. Good news is this can be corrected. If they had any Okie Drills early on in camp where he faced Teller or Bitonio - a bad pad height would be a summer school session he'll never forget. Pad height also plays into conditioning. And you won't find any better trainers and programs on planet Earth than what you can when you're in the NFL. Given that OU's defensive coaches were less than ideal, I'm willing to get PW sometime. Like you said, it can be corrected with time, condition and coaching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 @TexasAg1969 You're not getting any screenshots with this post. But I'm on game 2 for Kellen vs San Fran. He started rough, real rough, out of the gate. But he's battled back in the late 2nd half, hanging in and making some pretty decent throws. Mentally speaking, he looks ahead of rookie and 2nd year QB's I've seen that are still on rosters with their respective teams. I still love how collected Mond is in the pocket. Good, tight footwork moving in condensed space, his pocket climb is so-so, but when he does go to run he seems to identify the correct lane to escape, be it laterally or vertically. Of course, as I type this, Kellen forces a really nasty pass downfield into double coverage vs, what looks like, the Niners sitting in quarters to the boundary. I can understand a bit of frustration from the coaching staff, he has been handed a couple gimmies with these chips and underneath releases against cleared out coverages for cheap and easy gains but hasn't taken not-a-one. Still, he isn't so unpolished a product that I would feel comfortable moving on from just yet. Especially given his short time in the league compared to Sean Mannion. I suppose Mullens is a touch of an upgrade at the moment, and the Vikes felt he might be a better long term #2. But like I said in my previous post, the kid doesn't look so terribly out of place that he doesn't belong either. There are hints at the mental makeup along with some of the quality measurements Kellen has. edit: Same drive, against another quarters look, puts the ball to the far outside hash before the curl/flat defender can expand and get underneath of the ball. Good read, but the ball was high and wide... just a poor throw. I'm on the fence with this one. I wouldn't lament losing Kellen off my team, but whoever you're bringing in would have to be a clear upgrade for me. edit: I didn't watch that QB room video, I think symp? Posted about Kellen. Anything similar in there to what I found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 Shameless self bump. But we'll be in TBB discord, watching the Clemson - Ga Tech game on this rainy Labor Day and probably going over a bit more film from the NFL. https://discord.gg/RRW4pgpK All are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 Coaches film is up, working on CAR's offense now. All drives 1st qtr drives.... 3 step drops to open and close, trying to take advantage of Woods' early down single high calls. Opened Pass, run, Pass. Several RPO builds to get the ball out quick and stress the defense horizontally. Corners sat REALLY aggressive on those. A couple screens, including a mirrored type of concept and the designed swing out to CMC. Baker has dropped 2 snaps from the gun that were pretty clean. 7 Step drop on a misdirection screen to CMC, bootleg that was pressured by Bryan. Any type of 1st down throw that connect was followed up with the interior run. The idea is to pickup that 1st down, move the chains and get your offense in rhythm. I can't remember where the stat line was, but the expected point percentage per drive went up like 3x for any offense that achieved a first down on their drives first series. 3rd series, Bakers physical limitations in the pocket started to show themselves. He did a great job hanging tight on a 5 step drop on 1st and 10, coming off his primary, to his secondary and then his 3rd target, tries to fire to the outside and loses his footing getting his shoulders around. Also possible Alex Wright (his 2nd snap, by my count) got a pressure on this. But Baker, as we've seen, can't really step up and launch because he loses sight of his throwing lanes when he isn't playing with exaggerated pocket depth. Credit Baker for trying to hang tough. Credit Alex Wright for registering a pressure on this pass rush snap. He actually used his hands for extension quite well, but still lowered his head a bit. Side note, about this play. It's a nice foreshadowing to the long bomb on the miscommunication by Emerson and Delpit later. Because DJ Moore was running a speed dig from the X, looks like quarters to the field. When Moore broke positive, Emerson went to turn him over to Delpit because the #2 to that side stayed in on a chip then delay. Delpit went back to double the #1 when there was no #2 fast threat (Moore) and got WAY too high on the receiver. I see why and where the Panthers coaches filed that away for later. Delpit is only starting his 2nd healthy season, and he's on the same side of the field as a rookie CB. Good coaching dialing up concepts that force them to communicate and "think". Also, I know they're from LSU so the comparison is natural, but GAWD DAMN... I can't help but see a bit of Jamal Adams when I watch Delpit. Baker starting to get locked onto reads pre snap. Missed CMC flat twice now for big gains. Defense is starting to take the ball possibly going by them for granted. Because they're picking up their assignments in man and zone, but getting eyes back onto Baker a bit too fast and for a bit too long. Then again, these are the sort of things I pointed out were happening as early as the 2020 Ravens game, then the big one was the Pats game last season. Baker Misses CMC on a HB choice 1st down the very next drive. And it was there too for a cheap 5-6 yards. So far, Mcadoo has stayed aggressive, coming out and throwing on 1st downs and shooting for controlled passes that would get him in a shooters rhythm. I was wrong, CMC might not be Bakers best friend. Because the way to control MC from hurting your defense also happens to be the same way you play Baker - heavy zone looks with variable drop depths and leverages. McAdo still firing away on 1st down. Next drive, comes out with a sort of yankee concept. Baker does a good job not bombing away an INT, but Danzel shuts down DJ Moore as the 2nd option. Pass rush gets home. Hey! He finally got CMC the ball flat against a cover 2! The bust for the big gain to the TE early. It looks like Delpit is looking for his call from Johnny J. Some problems here though... the boundary corner is in man. Denzel gets on the field late and covers the far #2, so that leaves Delpit and Young Jok between the #2 (TE) and CMC from the backfield. I see Delpit expand in a hook/curl, like he's expecting safety help to that hash. But the problem with cover 3 vs a 2x2 set is just that, you're weak right down the seams. If this was Match 3, then Delpit would be picking up the #2 past a 8-9 yard vertical. So I think, when you toss in the bad communication between him and Emerson earlier and later, that Delpit isn't getting his mind right where it needs to be. There are things that need cleaned up on the defense, and the biggest one is understanding primary and secondary coverage assignments. The fundamental stuff needs to be polished, because CAR isn't doing anything fancy here. Baker, per the usual, was getting his eyes to a boundary throw and was really fortunate with this. For some reason he didn't even bother eyeing up the late arriving DB, which would naturally gravitate to being a communication issue alone right there. It's just a college level bust, at the NFL level. Not to take anything away from Baker, but Brady Quinn could have done this. It's like getting birdie on a par 4, but you took a mulligan. Sorry, but you don't get credit for gimmies. Here's the recap on 1 half of Panthers football from the offense. 5 drives - 20 yards of total offense and 1 INT 1 drive - 8 plays for 75 yards of offense and 1 TD. In that drive, you had 1 play for 50 yards and 7 plays for 25 yards. That's Johnny Manziel levels of efficiency. What I've learned from the 1st half with Carolina so far.... - Nothing. Not to toot my own horn here, but they called the game almost exactly like I said. Lots of early down short drops, the screen game, trying to attack the perimeter and protect Baker. Only 5 and 7 step drops on ball action and the screen game. The Panthers Oline might be the worst in the NFL, somehow they've gotten worse than last year. As a result, their offensive coaching staff is handcuffed because you have a piss poor OL, and a QB who needs the extra time to be reliably effective. Only 2 downfield connections - 1 for 16 yards on a 7 man protection, and the other on a busted coverage with a cheap throw. That's all they could get because it's all they could earn. The Browns Dline won just about every snap. EDIT: removed this part... - Woods is getting creative with his pass rush looks. Especially given the redundancy in our safety roles. Neither Delpit or Johnny J are great center fielders. But both aren't terrible either. They do great work with a bunch of other assignments and in the box. For those complaining about a lack of aggressiveness, I think @SdBacker80, probably Nickers, and @Dutch Oven, there was even a call where he kicked Myles inside, dropped Alex Wright and Anthony Walker over the TE and got a sack sending Johnny J off the weakside edge matched with some tight man coverage from our corners. I saw a great blend of restraint, understanding that the front 4 didn't need much help, and a "fuck it, send it" because our corners were up to the task. The defense was a busted communication away from a 1st half shut out. Clean that up, execute and you blank your opponent for a full half. I like that this defense has something to hang it's hat on which can be improved with time, coaching and practice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 Re: The coverage busts that lead to TD's. The first one to the TE. - Delpit is waiting for the Call in from Johnny J. - Denzel is running onto the field late, JJ3 gives him his tag and it looks like it's a match call over the #2 - Boundary corner is locked up in man. - Neither Delpit or JOK carry the #2 (TE) up the seam, so he just sits wide open. - Delpit expands in a hook/curl like he's playing a 3 zone. Which is a rare call for a 2x2 set. Because those seam throws put any single high safety in such a bind, you almost can't win. - Likely a giant miscommunication between JJ3 and Delpit. Grant should have been the one to carry that TE down the seam, like in a match 3. If the #2, especially to the boundary, stems vertical, the safety picks him up downfield. ***** TD to Robbie Anderson - Looks like quarters. - Denzel matches his #1 to the boundary - Delpit is staring down the lane playing a "clue" between the backside and the frontside #2 & #3. If the #3 doesn't press vertical, he reads for a vertical #2 and continues to float to the strongside hash. - JJ3 picks up the frontside #2 in man at 10 yards and drives on the cut. That's what you do in a qtr/qtr. At a certain point you have to declare your coverage and your man. You could have checked the #1 and fallen off late to the #2, almost like a 2 trap. But it's rare and risky that you'll see defenses have that sort of switch past a magic number... which is usually 8ish yards. - Newsie freezes his feet like He's expecting JJ3 to pick up the #1 going vertical on the post... which means he would be falling off to....? absolutely nobody. Probably going to put this 2nd bust on Newsome. Everybody else appears to be playing their role correctly except him. I'll have screen shots and route diagrams for you guys tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted September 13, 2022 Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 Currently watching in disbelief as the Hawks O coordinator is putting the game in Geno’s hands No Beef with Joe. I thought this opener was a belt high fastball and he put it in the bleachers. A couple comments: -First, thank you for the series by series breakdown of what I thought was a poor performance from Baker. I’m sick and tired of the excuses. -The John Johnson disguised pressure was a thing of beauty. I definitely didn’t criticize Joes lack of aggressiveness this game. But If Joe goes all Mike Glennon 2020 gameplan and let’s Joe Flacco sit in a pocket I might have a problem…then again I think we can win with four next week. -I thought Delpit was peeking in the backfield on the long TD…he’s gotta have better situational awareness and know Baker has to put it up and take some shots downfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 18 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: -First, thank you for the series by series breakdown of what I thought was a poor performance from Baker. I’m sick and tired of the excuses. Oh, believe me, he missed some gems.... 2 of the 3 on the same drive for, what would have been, touchdowns. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Apart from the 2 busted coverages, it was a brutal day for both Baker and the CAR Oline. And barring major weekly improvement or a trade of personnel, it isn't going to be getting any better for them anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 Alright, so let's tackle this one play a post. Pre-snap highlights some of the communication issues this secondary had on the day. ------------------------------------------------------------ Browns get a nickel on the field WAY late. - I swear, Delpit is pointing back expecting either JJ3 or Denzel to be behind him down the row. Not sure why it would be Denzel. In any late sub or situation like this, I'm putting ANY DB who wants on the field over the #2 and telling him MEG. At this point, you're almost too late to make any real call behind that and pointing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Johnny J gives Denzel his marching orders. But he backs up and leverages himself between the field hash and the numbers. Almost like he's playing split field quarters. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some of the odd parts on this communication breakdown. - Boundary corner is playing man - Field CB's are playing qtr/qtr. So if the #2 stems vertical, Denzel picks him up. JJ is playing like he's read matching 2 to 1, except his leverage is ALL wrong if he wants to do that. No way would he be able to recover and help on the #1 to his side that close to the hash. Looks more like he's playing a "clue" that you see vs trips. If your 2/3 don't push vertical, you look for something backside... - Delpit and JoK are more than content to hit in a hook and curl flat zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Denzel picks up the #2 vertical. - JJ3 eyes backside and goes "oh shit, there's nobody home". - Delpit is still expanding curl/flat like this is some type of cover 3. In multiple cover 3 calls, you work curl TO flat... that's how it's coached. In this case, the corner would still continue in his deep 1/3, but like, what some call "country" cover 3, the CB would then read the #2 vertical and would "bend" in to the numbers to deny a seam throw. For the life of me I remember either Jeff Okudah or Damon Arnette running this type of defense and getting a PBU with it. I tried to find it on Youtube, but I just can't. Maybe another time? Edit: found a match 3 diagram of what I'm referring to. ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the end result where Baker gets a freebie. A few things about this play. - Regardless of the coverage called, it's a bust because of communication. - There are forms of 2 read, mostly notable with coach Patterson and TCU, that play like match quarters, but also have a functioning "Robber" around where JJ3 was leveraging himself. But that couldn't account for the lack of numbers to the passing strength. So this becomes a bit of trial and error on who was playing what. I'm sure, whatever call both JJ3 and Delpit thought they had, they ran it correctly. The problem is, they're running two different calls. Letting a #2 run upfield like that screams some form of expecting safety help. And given how often cover 6 is called with the 1/2 safety to the field, I think that's what Delpit believed he was playing. - There's just too much miscommunication here. In certain forms of cover 3, the weakside safety matches the #2 vertical while the strong safety and corresponding LB or DB (speaking in terms of passing numbers strength vs not) walls off the numbers side #2 and carries him vertical. It's the single high counter to 4 verticals. There are some calls like that at the pro level to, one made popular by Coach Carroll in Seattle called "soft sky" (Cover 3 sky, "soft" tagging how the #2 is played vertically) I ACTUALLY found that play, to give you an example of what I'm talking about here. In cover 3, this type of 4 verticals look means these seam throws are open. But this check the Seahawks run means, that curl/flat defender McDougal would have been, now means he carries that #2 seam upfield. Cam Newton was baited hard into throwing this pick. Starts at the 45 second mark. There's also the possibility, given how aggressive the boundary corner is, that Delpit was expecting some type of roll safety behind this CB sitting cloud? I'm not entirely sure which call was blown here, because there are several to choose from. So I'm actually scratching my head a bit and wondering where Woods' head would have been and building from there. The cover 3 match makes more sense, IMHO. JJ3 wears the call helmet for the secondary, so he's the leader. If there is a communication failure, while yes it is player specific, as the defacto leader, it also reflects on you. Your guys HAVE to be all on the same page, or dumb shit like this happens. - Either way, for game 1 against a questionable Panthers team, there were far too many defensive breakdowns for my liking. And they all stemmed from miscommunication between the safeties themselves, and to their respective corners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2022 This one was a good deal more straight forward. The 75 yard bomb to Robbie Anderson..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Long and short of this one. In qtr/qtr like that, Newesome stays on all of the #1. Only exception being for something like 2 trap, which would mean the #2 going out he could jump, turning the #1 over to JJ3. But RARELY if ever does that landmark fall past 5-6 yards, and almost never when your safety is that shallow. Meaning this is quarters outside the whole way, and Johnny J is reading 3 flat to 2 vertical, and the #2 is who he picks up past 8 yards. It's all about eyes and chemistry because you don't have time to yell and process a response in space this condensed. For reasons I don't understand, Newsome chops his feet when he see's JJ3 cross his eyes, like he expected his safety to pickup Anderson vertical and he falls off to the #2 going out. Even if that were the call, there's no way you'd make that switch at this depth. I believe JJ3 was playing this correctly, but this is what bothers me - Newsome turns around when Anderson is in the endzone and starts getting a bit wild in conveying VERY vocally how upset he is. Which either means he didn't understand the call, or he didn't get the right call. Given his attitude on the sidelines.... found here....... Head down Quiet Watching tablet along with JJ3 That all leads me to believe Greg understood the problem in the communication was his read on the design. All that aside, there is a trend on both of these busts I don't like and absolutely needs to be cleaned up, and that is the calls and communication that begins and is disseminated from John Johnson to the other DB's. You're the leader, if you think there are calls your DB's didn't get, aren't playing correctly or working their reads as they should, then it needs to get handled immediately between you, them and your coaches. I'd expect renewed focus this upcoming week on the fundamentals of constant communication. Because if I see more bullshit like this against Joe Flacco and a questionable Oline, then I'm going to start asking questions about our personnel's ability, and our coaches ability to make sure the correct calls are installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2022 Last one for the night. The coaches dialed up a great opening drive, and some creative designs in the running game. I'll get to those another day, but this was supposed to be the night cap that ended the drive. Or at the very worst, put the Browns knocking on the door to a TD. It was a gift from Stef, poorly accepted and executed by Jacoby. A little tell or clue on coverage. - When you see inside shade to your solo - Outside shade to your #3 and #2 That means you should have it in your head that DB's expecting help to the inside. Unless they're overplaying negative breaks, which would be more common in tighter clock situations before the half. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Man coverage stays true. Cover 1 with a low hole from the MIKE. So the weakside backer picks up Hunt in man. Of course they can have a call between the backers where, if Hunt immediately releases across the face of his QB, the MIKE would track the RB in man and the WILL would drop to a low hole. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is where we start to see Jacoby fucking this play up. AC squares up the CB with an insight jump, then he continues to use that momentum to rip inside of the corner and carry upfield. As a result from bad contact and GREAT work from AC with his hands throwing away the DB's arms, our newly minted WR has now won his route to the inside. A couple rules from this type of play when you're reading single high. - The WR is responsible for beating his man and protecting his QB from the CB. So if he wins inside, he has to use his body to shield off the DB should he recover back inside. - The QB is responsible for protecting the WR from the middle field safety. This means you have to lock your eyes down the middle and hold that DB there while this route develops. Giving the MFS a glance then immediately turning while your WR is still negative depth from the CB is a great way to lose this rep. - That's the point of having a great receiver solo'd up like this. You want to get him on CB's that simply can't matchup. The overwhelming majority of the time, QB's want to target this X. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And this is what I mean. AC has clearly broken from the CB, but Jacoby's eyes have ruined how this throw went. If that safety is still sitting down the hash for another half to full second, THEN JB turns to deliver, I'm willing to be this was a touchdown. Protection was good, so no excuse there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, had Jacoby seen the DB fall, and with the internal clock in his head, know that he didn't hold the MFS long enough (therefore selling out this throw) then he could have ripped it to a shorter space on more of a line drive. That would have given you a big completion, a 1st down conversion and the shot at AC possibly making a house call if he breaks a tackle. Because at this point, it's Coop vs the safety getting him to the ground. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Instead we get a high arch like it's going to be dropped in the bread basket from a helicopter. Admittedly, it would have worked perfectly fine had he held the god damn safety. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As a result, AC chops his feet for a fraction of a second, and the DB's path squeezes him a step outside as opposed to just continuing on a straight line underneath the ball flight. Believe me when I say, from a play calling perspective, this was a treat of an opening series. But even though you call it right, doesn't mean it gets executed that way. I was critical of Baker about this same type of non-cerebral and hurried play style. Almost like you're too anxious and can't get your head back around to snap on the throw. Because some proper eye discipline turns this into the TD it should have been and, on top of the 1st half defense, likely busts this game open early. It's the NFL equivalent of the "You had ONE job" meme, and JB messed up his job on this play. I need more from Jacoby. Not a whole hell of a lot more, but this is a shot most NFL QB's should and would be making. These are the throws he has to hit if this team is to continue winning low scoring contests. The Browns thankfully got the dub, but stuff like this comes back to bite you in the ass at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2022 @Flugel the cover 2 twist the Bears ran that I mentioned. Their typical cover 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The cover 2 variant with the 3 man rush and the line drop playing under the #3 to the low hole. - Show the hands. Show your previous call. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Add the twist that catches Jacoby by surprise.... ------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 Tech falls off after carrying Njoku upfield a bit, and then looks for work in the replaced zone or anything working horizontal/under. This caught Jacoby off guard and he had to slide off the spot to find his receiver underneath. Just a sweet little change-up to playing your classic C2 flavor. Speaking of cover 2, going over that game losing drive and a couple of Woods' calls when it mattered most. I'll be back with more on that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 7/24/2022 at 5:21 PM, tiamat63 said: I know this won't be popular to say, I'm beginning to see evidence that would help me build a genuine belief that he can/could put up comparable numbers to Baker, should he digest the language, understand the structure, and begin to develop a decent rapport with his receivers. This breakdown took me a handful of hours. For some, it might just a few screen shots and a few paragraphs. But I don't think most people appreciate the amount of time it takes just to produce even that. Starting from scratch, watching, charting, rewatching, recharting, doing markups, step by step developments then finalizing along with typing out the bullet points. @nickers I deleted your post, but I forget it was quoted by Tex. Screen shotted that, but had to remind you that you responded with this.... ....... which took you all of about 45 seconds for you. There was no "Hmm, ok good points, here's why I disagree". No acknowledgement of the time I put in either to try and maybe convey some knowledge. Just calling my work "bullshit" and moving on. Well I felt the need to update you through week 3. Jacoby: 66.30% comp 4 TD's 1 INT 4:1 ratio 208 YPG 6.69 AVG Baker through 3 games in 2020. 64.36% 5 TD's 2 INTS 2.5:1 ratio 188YPG 7.03 avg I'm not here to rub my assessment, which appears to have been pretty god damn spot on, all up in your face. I'm only here to use you as an example. Should I, or anyone else for that matter, do the courtesy of breakdowns on this board in an attempt to help raise the discussion level of this group and add something positive the the environment, unless somebody has something worth adding to the discussion, either avoid posting entirely or simply say "good work" and move on. Browns 2-1 with Jacoby Brissett under center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korsou Dawg Posted September 23, 2022 Report Share Posted September 23, 2022 @tiamat63 Brissett may not be an elite talent, but his performance has been ranging from good enough to excellent so far. Also seems he is improving each week, as he builds a rapport with his receivers. Cooper had his first 100-yard game since 2016 yesterday. Njoku played as well as I remember seeing him. If JB keeps this up, it's going to be damn hard to bench him for Watson when his suspension is over. Keep the good stuff coming, thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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