Watson Suspended for 11 Games and Fined $5 Million / and a bit OT and back.

[jrb12711]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:38 PM, Neo said:

Shouldn't be hard considering you didn't say much to begin with.

I wrote two detailed paragraphs, and this is a fan forum. Do you want a 5 page, double spaced, citation paper? Or are you choosing not to read critically? In any case, it's not my concern.

 

On 8/19/2022 at 9:20 PM, Unsympathetic said:

And.. if you think 2 different grand juries failing to indict him assuming all the evidence is true was entirely a nothingburger I really don't know why you keep repeating ..

Fact: Grand juries start with the premise that if evidence is introduced, it's true.  The purpose of a grand jury is to answer a [relatively] simple question.. IF the evidence is true, is this enough to move forward?  Here's the law/the standard in one hand, here's our evidence in the other. Do they match..  that's it. Conviction isn't a consideration.

 

Yes, I understand grand juries well. My family has been practicing attorneys in South Florida for a combined 60 years, and presented to many grands juries in that time. I asked them their honest opinion of the matter, and it was a simple "indicting a ham sandwich is a myth". There's plenty of times where a grand jury doesn't indict as a miscarriage of justice. This, for example, is a good story (albeit older): https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/2000/11/03/exploding-myth-about-grand-juries/51197640007/

Here's another example in Texas of a man who has nearly 15 accusations of sexual assault not being indicted: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2020/10/25/handcuffed-tied-down-beaten-pastor-rickie-rush-faces-new-allegations-of-abusing-children/

Sometimes the legal system doesn't hold up to abuse, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[SdBacker80]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-p-matt-araiza-2-san-diego-state-teammates-accused-of-gang-rape-in-lawsuit-223612033.html
 

What will come of this? 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-p-matt-araiza-2-san-diego-state-teammates-accused-of-gang-rape-in-lawsuit-223612033.html
 

What will come of this? 

Story feels reminiscent of a pretty famous story out of Steubenville, Ohio regarding high profile football players from the last decade. I believe at least one of the players had a full ride to Ohio State. 

[gumby73]

12 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-p-matt-araiza-2-san-diego-state-teammates-accused-of-gang-rape-in-lawsuit-223612033.html
 

What will come of this? 

 

The Bills officially committed to Araiza as their starting punter earlier this week when they released veteran Matt Haack, leaving the rookie as the only punter on their roster. They did so reportedly knowing about the allegations against Araiza.

Flo's NFL statement..https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/25/nfl-cant-punish-matt-araiza-but-the-bills-could-cut-him-in-theory/

 

[Flugel]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:05 PM, mjp28 said:

Has Mr DW figured it out yet that he doesn't need to put up with all of this hassle ?   

The Cleveland Browns have guaranteed his future of being a rich player no matter what he does or how he performs or even whether he's in shape or not.  

He hasn't played in forever and is facing even more real NFL hitting and action to be lost.  This in a game where not being 100% sharp is so crucial. 

Bottom line the BROWNS  are screwed.

Sorry I missed this post.  Very interesting perspective!

A very big part of football is how a player or team responds to adversity.  When character and leadership wasn't sufficient in Cleveland, adversity became an excuse for this franchise to accept losing.  If some of the crap we've seen since 99 unfolded back in the 80s, there would be vocal guys like LB Mike Johnson and others.  There were also quiet veteran leaders like Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome defining PROFESSIONALISM with work ethic, preparation (film study & practice) and unselfishly leaving his starting LB spot/comfort zone to fill in for an injured LB with a different role. And then there were the QBs featuring local favorite Bernie Kosar and Brian Sipe (from 13th round draft pick to NFL MVP).

One of the reasons I was excited we drafted Baker was adversity gave him all of the fuel he needed to make himself into a 1st round pick.  Then, he started winning in a place that was 1-31 before him and winless his rookie year prior to taking the field with a 14 point deficit. He erased the deficit to help the Browns win; and excitement came back to the team and fan base.  BUT, a big part of me opted to forget Baker's 1st college football team needed to upgrade him with more elite football skills via Patrick Mahomes. Now a pissed off Baker headed to Oklahoma, where he performed well enough to win the Heisman and get his team into the BCS final 4 with an exciting multiple OT game vrs Georgia. We know the rest.  Baker helped get us out the worst 2 year period we've had, broke a rookie record for TD passes despite only 13 starts.  Then came the wedding plans, commercials and other things that looked to be interfering with his original plan of attack for the lifelong dream.  Not only that, but the more teams saw him on film - the more they could prove he's not an elite talent especially objective fans (unlike myself when it comes to Baker).

This year, here came an available Deshaun Watson with only 3 teams competing for his situation.  When we got right down to it, that turned into only 1 team willing to compete.  Looks like we're taking a step backward at first with a guy that once responded to every ounce of adversity Nick Saban and the best team in the country could throw at him. YES, that's only college football; but Alabama puts a lot of guys on NFL starting lineups.  Like Bernie Kosar once helped transcend the Miami Hurricanes into a National Champion over a Nebraska team they weren't supposed to beat - Watson took Clemson to a level where they could win Championships.  QBs that can transcend a major college football program to the elite - showcase the ability to overcome adversity.  I'm very glad the NFL intervention is making Watson get the counseling he needs for the clear head required to take this team where we need him to.  Meanwhile, I expect Baker to be Baker and bring some excitement and promise to Carolina after he loses to Cleveland.  The problem is I don't know how long he is wired to maintain it for a coaching staff that can't afford him to fail or be inconsistent. More so, he has to prove he can handle success by remembering what it took to get there and working on weaknesses. He should contact Drew Brees because that guy took 4 years to launch.

Sorry for the length...

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Sorry for the length.

I'll bet you say that to all the women.

[Westside Steve]

https://www.aol.com/nfl-advisor-says-she-feels-025707518.html

Watson insisted he never assaulted anybody after accepting his suspension.

Maybe this one?

WSS 

[nickers]

28 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.aol.com/nfl-advisor-says-she-feels-025707518.html

Watson insisted he never assaulted anybody after accepting his suspension.

Maybe this one?

WSS 

He's a stone cold liar and a piece of human scum... I can't stand him... I hope him, Berry and Haslam all rot in hell together someday...

[Westside Steve]

https://www.aol.com/nfl-advisor-says-she-feels-025707518.html

Watson insisted he never assaulted anybody after accepting his suspension.

WSS

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.aol.com/nfl-advisor-says-she-feels-025707518.html

Watson insisted he never assaulted anybody after accepting his suspension.

WSS

Does that mean his apology wasn’t real? 🤔

[nickers]

1 minute ago, Canton Dawg said:

Does that mean his apology wasn’t real? 🤔

He sounds fake as hell every time he claims he did nothing...

[Vambo]

NFL Senior Advisor on Deshaun Watson: ‘I Feel Like He’s Playing Us’

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/27/deshaun-watson-nfl-senior-advisor-rita-smith-i-feel-like-hes-playing-us-cleveland-browns

[SdBacker80]

41 minutes ago, Vambo said:

NFL Senior Advisor on Deshaun Watson: ‘I Feel Like He’s Playing Us’

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/27/deshaun-watson-nfl-senior-advisor-rita-smith-i-feel-like-hes-playing-us-cleveland-browns

So investigate all 66 therapist and 25 cases again.  Spend another 17 months…violate normal due process.  Wait…you only focused on 5…why???

[Unsympathetic]

On 8/22/2022 at 8:52 AM, jrb12711 said:

I asked them their honest opinion of the matter, and it was a simple "indicting a ham sandwich is a myth". There's plenty of times where a grand jury doesn't indict as a miscarriage of justice.

I agree, "Hey What About This Other Thing" is fun but.. back to Watson.

On individual cases, sure, "it's possible" that they get/do the wrong thing.  But.. when you consider 1000 cases each presented before a grand jury, that grand jury will get the correct outcome 999 times out of that 1000.  They're looking at all the evidence!

And to clarify.. I'd define "correct" as "What the evidence if it's true Does Actually lead to" .. so if they don't indict because evidence is sus, that's a correct outcome -- or if they do indict when evidence fits, that's correct.  If an indict happens when evidence is lacking, that's a fail; also if no indictment when evidence is present, that's a fail.

Speaking of that evidence [this could be the subject for another thread if anyone cared] you would see perjury/false accusations and official misconduct [Concealing evidence that casts doubt on the defendant’s guilt, police officers threatening witnesses, forensic analysts faking test results, and prosecutors presenting false testimony] as a greater percentage of the same 1000 cases [going through the entire process from crime to jail sentence start] than the number the grand jury gets something incorrect.  [note: Only has to be 2/1000 to be more than the grand jury gets wrong, but any is too much]

Or, for fun, look at it more cynically: They had their chance to do all the evidence-tampering they wanted before the case got to the grand juries and still didn't get a indictment which would have been a political positive for that person in that texas jurisdiction!

 

And the thing which really should hammer the point about the ridiculousness of the actual case vs Watson home.. If this case was such a slam-dunk, they wouldn't be going 0-2 in front of grand juries.  They went through the entire hassle of seating a second grand jury and missed the dunk!  It simply doesn't happen that you roll dice and get two one-in-1000 events each happening entirely independently.. on the same case!

Did nobody explain why Watson's accusers chose not to go through a preliminary hearing, the other option instead of a grand jury? We may never know, but my suspicion is that they didn't want to have all the evidence excluded by Watson's lawyers --- Texas jurisdictions are all different, sure, but getting all the evidence thrown out because the prelim gives defense lawyers a chance to contest the prosecution evidence would have looked a heckuva lot worse..

[Dutch Oven]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am looking forward to many more years of reading the 'The Morality of Deshaun Watson" diatribe here on The Browns Board!  So far, it has been riveting! 

[calfoxwc]

I think a lot of folks agree with this writer:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/18/deshaun-watson-browns-look-worse-than-ever

Deshaun Watson and the Browns Look Worse Than Ever

The team has forfeited its right to take moral stands down the road, and shouldn’t count on its QB conducting himself with basic human decency.

 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I am looking forward to many more years of reading the 'The Morality of Deshaun Watson" diatribe here on The Browns Board!  So far, it has been riveting! 

FIFY!  🤠

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

FIFY!  🤠

The irony presented by the staunch supporters of a certain other morally-bankrupt individual is the cherry on the proverbial top of this shit sundae produced by the Browns! 

Good times had by all, TexAg!

[nickers]

This is your QB... He's a flat out LIAR!

 

 

[calfoxwc]

8 minutes ago, nickers said:

This is your QB... He's a flat out LIAR!

 

 

Instead of "face of the franchise" we have "faces of the haslams" instead.

   They should sell the team. bout time the Browns have a good owner.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

[nickers]

50 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

Go suck his cock... You know you want to...

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Go suck his cock... You know you want to...

Damn Nickers, you a strange one.

[ballpeen]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:24 PM, hoorta said:

Out of curiosity, I did check and there are Watson jerseys for sale at the NFL Shop.  I suspect they're not a big seller. You can get Mayfield jerseys 1\2 off though.    That's why I quit buying jerseys with a player's name on it, I have a Tim Couch jersey gathering dust in the basement.  

I finally broke down and bought a new Browns jersey.  I chucked my Courtney Brown jersey maybe 10 years ago after not wearing it for almost as many years.  I bought a Jim Brown jersey.  I figured I can't go wrong with that being he is a retired legend and on the right side of the cancel culture, woke crowd.

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I finally broke down and bought a new Browns jersey.  I chucked my Courtney Brown jersey maybe 10 years ago after not wearing it for almost as many years.  I bought a Jim Brown jersey.  I figured I can't go wrong with that being he is a retired legend and on the right side of the cancel culture, woke crowd.

You can borrow my #2 best party boy jersey if you like. He's reformed so cal will give us his official moral seal of approval.

[Westside Steve]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/08/browns-face-more-uncertainty-after-nfl-appeals-deshaun-watsons-suspension-but-this-is-uncertainty-they-brought-on-themselves.html

As to one of the issues the idea that he'll be expected to undergo treatment.. my faith in that kind of thing is almost nil. While I'm willing to admit that a certain range of sexual predator is probably present in some form in every male mammal I can't imagine him being able to turn off the switch or eliminate the desire through sitting around and talking to somebody about it. Think about it it's kind of like therapy to make someone stop being gay. The leopard probably isn't changing his spots. Still, even though I'm sure it's been tried but the ludovico technique from A Clockwork Orange probably isn't a real Medical Practice.

Which means unless everybody is willing to wink and Nod and pretend he's been cured or if the bronze do a better job of concealing and off-site Recreation room for the guy than the Texans did....

It almost makes you feel sorry for the guy being stuck in a no-win position.

WSS

 

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/08/browns-face-more-uncertainty-after-nfl-appeals-deshaun-watsons-suspension-but-this-is-uncertainty-they-brought-on-themselves.html

As to one of the issues the idea that he'll be expected to undergo treatment.. my faith in that kind of thing is almost nil. While I'm willing to admit that a certain range of sexual predator is probably present in some form in every male mammal I can't imagine him being able to turn off the switch or eliminate the desire through sitting around and talking to somebody about it. Think about it it's kind of like therapy to make someone stop being gay. The leopard probably isn't changing his spots. Still, even though I'm sure it's been tried but the ludovico technique from A Clockwork Orange probably isn't a real Medical Practice.

Which means unless everybody is willing to wink and Nod and pretend he's been cured or if the bronze do a better job of concealing and off-site Recreation room for the guy than the Texans did....

It almost makes you feel sorry for the guy being stuck in a no-win position.

WSS

 

WSS

A good group with an excellent sponsor like in AA/NA might work.😁 💃

 

[calfoxwc]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:55 AM, ballpeen said:

I finally broke down and bought a new Browns jersey.  I chucked my Courtney Brown jersey maybe 10 years ago after not wearing it for almost as many years.  I bought a Jim Brown jersey.  I figured I can't go wrong with that being he is a retired legend and on the right side of the cancel culture, woke crowd.

I think I still have two Tim Couch jerseys somewhere. They should be valuable as antiques one of these years.

Best bet - Joe Thomas jersey, if I were to buy one.

[nickers]

3 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I think I still have two Tim Couch jerseys somewhere. They should be valuable as antiques one of these years.

Best bet - Joe Thomas jersey, if I were to buy one.

I have a JT jersey... Might wear it at the home opener...

[Westside Steve]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

A good group with an excellent sponsor like in AA/NA might work.😁 💃

 

Oh I do understand people have success with AA. I wouldn't imagine that members of that group would be alpha males, maybe I'm wrong. And with alcoholism I think the people that finally give themselves over to AA have realized that they are powerless to fight this urge and they realize it's detrimental to their lives. As much as it's creepy and predatory Etc wanting to f*** every chick you come within 10 ft of seems like a pretty common occurrence among males it's a public relations problem it's an image problem.

Who knows? Most of us were or at least new guys like that when we're going to school. And that certainly could preclude any of us or them from jobs and which perception was key.

WSS