2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

 

Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).

 

 

Current watch(ed) list as of this morning.

 

RB - Deneric Prince - X UDFA
         Roschon Johnson  - * Day 3 (early?)
         Zach Evans - X Day 3 (later)
        Kendre Miller - X Day 3
        Sean Tucker - * Late Day 2, early Day 3?  

 edit:   Adding Devon Archane per the last conversation

         Devon Archane - * Day 3 

  

X = pass

* = Willing to draft

 

Currently working on Tank Bigsby.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Does Nick Chubb's contract expire after the 2024 season?

 

Yes

 

[calfoxwc]

offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.

   I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.

too bad, eh?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066354-small-school-prospects-who-will-rise-up-draft-boards-at-the-2023-nfl-combine

I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....

dammit.

[calfoxwc]

bigger list - most are really interesting guys:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/2023_nfl_draft_small_school_prospects_who_will_make_a_big_impact/s1__38517718#slide_13

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....

dammit.

I'm not so sure I would draft Carter because of his limited time against superior offenses. This is their schedule / scores from last season. Not too many difficult teams there. NFL is too big a jump IMO.

https://goarmywestpoint.com/sports/football/schedule/2022

[Dutch Oven]

Holy shitballs, the Draft is in three weeks!

It really sneaks up on you when it feels like a decade since the last time we drafted in the first couple of rounds 😁

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.

   I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.

too bad, eh?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066354-small-school-prospects-who-will-rise-up-draft-boards-at-the-2023-nfl-combine

I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....

dammit.

Here's a WR from Princeton that might interest you Cal.  His names is Andrei Iosivas and he stand 6'3" tall at 201lbs He ran a 4.43 forty at the combines and is currently projected to go between rounds 3 and 5.  

 

[tiamat63]

Look at this schedule from the 2013 Buffalo Bulls.   

https://fbschedules.com/2013-buffalo-football-schedule/

 

I'm not so sure I would draft Khalil Mack.  Not too many difficult teams there, the NFL is too big a jump IMO.

 

.... Being a bit cheeky there, Tex.  If you can ball, you can ball.  Doesn't matter where you came from.  

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Here's a WR from Princeton that might interest you Cal.  His names is Andrei Iosivas and he stand 6'3" tall at 201lbs He ran a 4.43 forty at the combines and is currently projected to go between rounds 3 and 5.  

 

He is interesting - he needs some serious coaching. If I were deciding, I'd have  a long sitdown with him and ask him how much he loves the game, find out about his character, loving to rise to his potential. He could become a real player in the NFL.

or , he languishes with no love for the game and ends out of football.

That is always an interest of mine - watching unheralded guys become bigtime NFL players. Some work at it every day, some never work at it. It's a gamble.

[Flugel]

6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

He is interesting - he needs some serious coaching. If I were deciding, I'd have  a long sitdown with him and ask him how much he loves the game, find out about his character, loving to rise to his potential. He could become a real player in the NFL.

or , he languishes with no love for the game and ends out of football.

That is always an interest of mine - watching unheralded guys become bigtime NFL players. Some work at it every day, some never work at it. It's a gamble.

Yeah, he's a little raw but I think there's some upside the right consumer will tap.  He tends to get a little too cozy with the body catches at times; but there's some nice catches with his hands.  He just needs to work on the consistency and improve some at high pointing the ball.  This video looks like he catches the ball when he's covered; but then again - Mack Wilson looked All Continent when we watched his greatest moments highlights.

My guess is a lot of his issues look like they come from inexperience.  Looking at how excited he gets on film - it doesn't look like passion will be a problem.  And hey, he can spell Princeton right or he'd be wearing an LSU uniform...

[Dutch Oven]

I love when cal comes over here and talks about how important integrity and character is to him, and how that disappears the second he clicks over to the Poliboard 😄

It tickles the cockles of my heart. Hell, it might even tickle the sub-cockle part of my heart. 

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah, he's a little raw but I think there's some upside the right consumer will tap.  He tends to get a little too cozy with the body catches at times; but there's some nice catches with his hands.  He just needs to work on the consistency and improve some at high pointing the ball.  This video looks like he catches the ball when he's covered; but then again - Mack Wilson looked All Continent when we watched his greatest moments highlights.

My guess is a lot of his issues look like they come from inexperience.  Looking at how excited he gets on film - it doesn't look like passion will be a problem.  And hey, he can spell Princeton right or he'd be wearing an LSU uniform...

LOL. yep

[TexasAg1969]

12 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Look at this schedule from the 2013 Buffalo Bulls.   

https://fbschedules.com/2013-buffalo-football-schedule/

 

I'm not so sure I would draft Khalil Mack.  Not too many difficult teams there, the NFL is too big a jump IMO.

 

.... Being a bit cheeky there, Tex.  If you can ball, you can ball.  Doesn't matter where you came from.  

Put him on your list to watch over time and so will I. Just think he's not ready yet. Developmental player for a team with patience.

[gumby73]

Been Busy.. Happy Easter !

List of small school favorites include.. Karl Brooks,Viliami Fehoko,Jose Ramirez & Dorian Williams..

The Browns pick ahead of Pittspuke in the 7th round.

Interesting, if a visiting team takes a 7th round flyer to avoid the UDFA route... Similar mold/metrics to 

Okoronkwo, Ogbo

Div.II Lane's-- DE Andrew Farmer (doesn't matter where ya come from// they'll find ya 🧐)

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/pittsburgh-steelers-show-interest-in-small-school-edge-rusher-at-hbcu-combine/

[D Bone]

Off Topic: Hey guys I just posted a thread in the Barber Shop section and just wanted to mention it here where most of us click so it might get seen more.... Thanks in advance for looking and any insight you can give. 

 

 

[Korsou Dawg]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:25 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

And they have moved Achane up to #49 (mid 2nd round), but in their mock draft have him going to Miami in the 3rd @ # 84 after the Browns pick in the DL. Very strange.

In most of the online mocks I've done so far, you see valued positions that are considered less deep being reached for. DT especially, but also O-line. Positions that are considered deep like Edge and WR tend to fall down the order.

In the case of RBs, they are not valued as much, and while only Bijan Robinson is considered elite, there are a good two dozen that could go anywhere from late day 2 to day 3. Fairly deep in that sense. I think that's why they fall down the order too.

On 4/8/2023 at 9:32 AM, tiamat63 said:

 

Current watch(ed) list as of this morning.

RB - Deneric Prince - X UDFA
         Roschon Johnson  - * Day 3 (early?)
         Zach Evans - X Day 3 (later)
        Kendre Miller - X Day 3
        Sean Tucker - * Late Day 2, early Day 3?  

 edit:   Adding Devon Archane per the last conversation

         Devon Archane - * Day 3 

X = pass

* = Willing to draft

 

May I ask why Sean Tucker pleases you? From what I've read, he is a speed back undersized in both height and frame, with good hands that make him a receiving option. Sounds like Demetric Felton 2.0 to me, and we already have 1.0 under contract. That's why I've regularly passed on him in my online mocks.  

[Korsou Dawg]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

Off Topic: Hey guys I just posted a thread in the Barber Shop section and just wanted to mention it here where most of us click so it might get seen more.... Thanks in advance for looking and any insight you can give. 

 

 

There's a Barbershop section?

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

 

May I ask why Sean Tucker pleases you? From what I've read, he is a speed back undersized in both height and frame, with good hands that make him a receiving option. Sounds like Demetric Felton 2.0 to me, and we already have 1.0 under contract. That's why I've regularly passed on him in my online mocks.  

 

 As long as you never phrase it like that again.

 

 He's undersized in the fact that he isn't 5'11 225lbs.  But he isn't undersized in the way of Felton.  5'9 3/4 and 210lbs is pretty solid.    What I like 

- Built low, runs low.

- Good burst, good top end. Decent lateral movement to win the edge. 

- Shows some patience on the interior game

- Good hole press with his eyes, shoulders and feet.  

- Ball security doesn't appear to be an issue.

- Quality hands in the screen and checkdown game, then turning it into YAC.  

 

 I don't see any elite qualities, but I see one's where I can get a productive back late that can handle all of the same responsibilities as Chubb on 10 to 12 touches.  And the flashes of what I see indicate the more subtle nuances and tools of RB are there, meaning coach Stump will get the most out of those types of picks.  

 

[gumby73]

The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.

Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody 

Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick

Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..👀 next man up to get some reps

Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 🔥

I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.

Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody 

Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th rd pick

Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..👀 next man up to get some reps

Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 🔥

I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after

I'm fine with Ford being the next man up. Ford scored 20 TDs as the #1 prong of attack for a team team that made the BCS playoffs for the 1st time.  I posted about this somewhere else and shared highlights of his final season at the U of Cincy.  The guy he reminded me a lot of coming out of college is Kareem Hunt.  

[ballpeen]

On 4/9/2023 at 7:31 PM, gumby73 said:

The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.

Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody 

Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick

Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..👀 next man up to get some reps

Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 🔥

I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after

I don't care about the height so much.  I do like speed with a thick build.  In other words, a guy 5'8" can be 185 lbs.  If a guy looks frail, he probably is.

[Unsympathetic]

Ford also didn't get as much college usage as some of these multi-year starters even though he was just as high of a prospect.  Hopefully Ford will have a longer RB career than others.

 

 

[tiamat63]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I don't care about the height so much.  I do like speed with a thick build.  

Calm down there, Elton. 🤣

[ballpeen]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Calm down there, Elton. 🤣

I guess I missed the humor.

[tiamat63]

 Zach Evans, RB Ole Miss.

Solid build, probably room for more quality mass.   I like his straight line speed, has a little lateral shake to him, but not enough to gut anybody when he's met in a gap.  A willing blocker if unspectacular and appears to catch well enough out of the backfield.   At times I question his vision in both right to left cut flow and his eyes/anticipation to 2nd level defenders. I say that because he tends to cut late, hug almost too close to his blockers and either getting his footwork messed up, tripped or ending up in the back of his lineman. When he does, I give him credit for being strong, moving bodies, and fighting to gain positive yards; but that won't hold up at the NFL.   Those late decisions, late recognition, will slow down his ability to get beyond the LoS taking less contact than what he should have.   While he isn't as bad Deneric Prince, he still tries to go full zoom behind the LoS and losses his patience on multiple occasions,  Also tends to run a bit high and in front of his pads... generally another sign of just wanting to sprint to the hole. 

 

 Can't see him as anything ahead of a mid to late Day 3 pick.   I'd rather the Browns pass on him (for now)

[syd]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:54 AM, syd said:

you mean like this guy he either drops the ball or hands it to the ref oh if you do watch he is a two way player qb fb lb and has a 6th or 7th round draft status

 

again this guy played fb,lb,te a very versatile player that Berry likes to draft and would fit right in special teams oh and did i mention he could be are emergency qb ?

[syd]

and this sorry it's from the broncos 

 

[TexasAg1969]

A couple of things on the upcoming draft for the Browns.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/nfl-draft-2023-cleveland-browns-biggest-needs-include-defense-weapons

https://theathletic.com/4350629/2023/04/13/cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-picks-needs-predictions-guide/

EDIT-Browns met with Florida's DT Gervon Dexter yesterday in pre-draft interview.

[Korsou Dawg]

How much stock do you guys put into combine results? Both on how you see players, and your expectation where they are drafted. 

Some examples for discussion:

Siaki Ika, DL, Baylor was brought to the table by @Dutch Oven and @tiamat63, but had a pretty terrible combine. Scored in the lowest percentiles historically for his position for the 40, 10, 3 cone and shuttle. Arguably not the most relevant to DL, but still indicative of lacking athleticism. Bench press could have redeemed all that in my view, but he did not participate. It is almost like he couldn't be bothered. 

That said, this class is so lacking in quality interior guys, that he barely slid on big boards. But what do we think? He should be available late in the 2nd, where we can realistically trade up to. Would definitely fill a need for us, but is he still the right guy? Is it a matter of combine be damned, he has the size and shown in college that he knows how to use it?

Andre Carter II, EDGE/ LB Army got quite the hype train going around him before the combine, and I was aboard for the ride. Billed as a "hyper athlete" who's only weakness was supposed to be a lack of mass due to Army regulations. Something easily fixed in a pro weight room, combined with frequent trips to Chick-Fil-A. He also put up stellar numbers as a junior in 2021, before seeing teams make adjustments specifically for him in 2022. 

But the combine came, where he put up godawful numbers in anything but the 3 cone. Godawful, meaning single digit percentiles in the 40 and bench. The very opposite of an actual hyper athlete like Miles, who performed in the upper 90 percentiles. To my surprise, he has not dropped much on most big boards, and is projected late 2nd, early 3rd. I have cooled on him to the point I would barely spend a late rounder on him.

Yaya Diaby, EDGE, Louisville on the other hand did put up Myles' numbers. To my astonishment, this has barely moved the needle on many boards. On PPF for example, he falls outside their top 150, making him a mid 5th pick at best. I would consider him in the 3rd and jump at the chance to draft him in the 4th, but fear he may be gone much earlier. Am I putting too much stock in his combine performance?

Blake Freeland, OT, BYU also put up elite numbers in the 40, broad, and set a new Combine record for offensive linemen with a vertical jump of 37 inches. He is still projected as a 3rd, or early 4th pick. Given the utter disappointment that is Jedrick Wills, and Conklin being made out of glass, he would seem to be a great addition for us where he is projected. Again, I fear he may be gone much sooner.

[tiamat63]

5 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

How much stock do you guys put into combine results? Both on how you see players, and your expectation where they are drafted. 

Some examples for discussion:

Siaki Ika, DL, Baylor was brought to the table by @Dutch Oven and @tiamat63, but had a pretty terrible combine. Scored in the lowest percentiles historically for his position for the 40, 10, 3 cone and shuttle. Arguably not the most relevant to DL, but still indicative of lacking athleticism. Bench press could have redeemed all that in my view, but he did not participate. It is almost like he couldn't be bothered. 

That said, this class is so lacking in quality interior guys, that he barely slid on big boards. But what do we think? He should be available late in the 2nd, where we can realistically trade up to. Would definitely fill a need for us, but is he still the right guy? Is it a matter of combine be damned, he has the size and shown in college that he knows how to use it?

Andre Carter II, EDGE/ LB Army got quite the hype train going around him before the combine, and I was aboard for the ride. Billed as a "hyper athlete" who's only weakness was supposed to be a lack of mass due to Army regulations. Something easily fixed in a pro weight room, combined with frequent trips to Chick-Fil-A. He also put up stellar numbers as a junior in 2021, before seeing teams make adjustments specifically for him in 2022. 

But the combine came, where he put up godawful numbers in anything but the 3 cone. Godawful, meaning single digit percentiles in the 40 and bench. The very opposite of an actual hyper athlete like Miles, who performed in the upper 90 percentiles. To my surprise, he has not dropped much on most big boards, and is projected late 2nd, early 3rd. I have cooled on him to the point I would barely spend a late rounder on him.

Yaya Diaby, EDGE, Louisville on the other hand did put up Myles' numbers. To my astonishment, this has barely moved the needle on many boards. On PPF for example, he falls outside their top 150, making him a mid 5th pick at best. I would consider him in the 3rd and jump at the chance to draft him in the 4th, but fear he may be gone much earlier. Am I putting too much stock in his combine performance?

Blake Freeland, OT, BYU also put up elite numbers in the 40, broad, and set a new Combine record for offensive linemen with a vertical jump of 37 inches. He is still projected as a 3rd, or early 4th pick. Given the utter disappointment that is Jedrick Wills, and Conklin being made out of glass, he would seem to be a great addition for us where he is projected. Again, I fear he may be gone much sooner.

 

 

 Combine, at least for myself, is an exhibition to demonstrate athletes I might not have previously been aware of or had the chance to watch during the season.  There are certain drills which are position specific that I tend to be cognizant of - 10 yard split, 3 cone and sometimes vertical.  What I also keep an eye out for, Dline specific, is height, weight, arm length and wingspan.     40 time is also something that I don't treat as gospel.  But what I ultimately need is film that supports or detracts from the combine to reach a conclusion.  You look like trash when the tape rolls? Then you're a combine warrior, and we've seen those time and time again.  Tape looks good, competition looks good? I can overlook not being the best athlete for your position group then.   The example I circle back around to both personally and then another collegiately ---> pro... A kid I played DB with in high school was a tremendous athlete and went on to play LB at Kent State. Because, despite being 6'1 210lbs, really didn't have the eyes, hips and processing skills for the position.    I watched Taylor Mays at USC back in the day be an absolute freak of nature athletically.  He played DB under Pete Carroll, then had to switch to LB and special teams only to be out of the league in a few short years after being drafted top 50.   So all that combine ability didn't amount to on field production come game time.

 Food for thought.   There is no science to it, but it's far more rare for a athlete to look like trash on the all-22 but find production in the NFL as opposed to someone who didn't test as athletic but passes the eye test.

 

RE:  I haven't gotten around to Andre Carter, but at 6'7 260lbs, he looked out of place playing as a 2pt edge for Army.  He has athletic gifts but he's a large coaching project.     I look for 10 yard split, vertical and some 3 cone/shuttle.  The reason I say 'some' is because I'm looking for how that initial lateral burst and hip sink looks in both drills.  The constant stop/start doesn't interest me along the defensive front.

 My thoughts on Diaby have already been posted here... 9th one down.  

 

 

 So with Siaki, the vertical test itself is tough because big men like him don't get height in jumping.  So the 10 yard split and, again, those initial moves on the 3 cone and shuttle can be a big tell.  Bench is also a 'meh'.   Remember, Tommy Togiai had a monster bench.  While he's solid facing teams that run a lot of gap/power, such as a Ravens;  He's a complete liability against zone heavy teams, such as the falcons, because he lacks height, wingspan and lateral to vertical burst.   

 

 

Re: Freeman.  40 means jackshit to me.  He can run like the wind, but if his footwork and handstrike while in pass pro are questionable, then being an athlete is negated by lack of technique.  Conversely, if he's an athlete who can be coached and consistently retain good technique, then the athletic ability now becomes a huge plus.  

 

 

 

 

[Korsou Dawg]

Thanks for the insight @tiamat63. Amazing to read that Diaby has a slow first step, considering his combine performance. Good example how it doesn't necessarily translate to on field performance I guess.

I am still doing mocks and trading up to #62 to see who potentially falls in our lap.