2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

To me this is the real key unless we get those needed areas fully filled in FA.

You had me thinking, did I REALLY say just say something that smart?  

Then I saw that it came from the cut and paste I shared.   Almost!!!!   

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

To me this is the real key unless we get those needed areas fully filled in FA.

I could see the Browns making an Amari Cooper-style trade again if they can swing it with the newly developed cap space.

I have a hard time believing this front office and coaching staff feels super comfortable with their career footing here in Cleveland, and if they can get another established vet for a draft pick in a need spot, I think they'll do it. 

[Korsou Dawg]

I am increasingly convinced we draft a WR in the 2nd. Considering the depth this year, we could still land a stud.

Cooper won't stay great forever, and with DPJ in his final year, getting a #2 who can grow into #1 would make a lot of sense to me. 

[gumby73]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

I REALLY like seeing Parker Washington has a compact 5'10" frame at 204 lbs with strength of 16 reps so it looks like we could line him up on the line of scrimmage when/if necessary.

I know you have a lot of familiarity with the local guys you see in the Carolinas and ACC.  If you're like me, you'd like to see your local studs end up with Cleveland. EDIT: I just cut and pasted 2nd and 3rd round mock drafts (in the next post) from 2 guys with Clevelandbrowns.com where 1 has the Browns drafting Josh Brown in round 2 and a DL in round 3.  If you had your choice, would you go with the Carolina Kid or the better RAS if it came down to Mingo or Downs?  I get the feeling there's a little James Taylor vibe working here - "In my mind I'm gone to Carolina..."  

 

Hey Flug,

If I had a choice? If the RAS website was not a sorry site to compare players( it shows some, than not some), it would have been a 6 pack of WR's..  Zay Flowers vs AT Perry's RAS would not compare.. The best fit for the Browns imo?

1. Marvin Mims Oklahoma. 5'10 183/ speed/twitch .. 40 time 4.38.3-Cone 6.90.. don't think he gets to us at pick 40's?

2a). Zay Flowers BC (climate ready) 5'10 182 lbs. best WR in ACC/imo.. Josh Downs had a QB/not Flowers/ just get the ball in his radius area code..deep threat with twitch/yac is a browns need..finished his career as BC's all-time leader in career receptions (200), career receiving yards (3,056) and career receiving touchdowns (29).

2b.).. Parker Washington 5' 10" 204lbs.. pending pro day.. Zay or Parker?.. I'd be thrilled with either.. could not choose even when Parker's ankle injury happened.. You don't find many 5'10 college WR's like Parker with over 10" hands.. drops nothing & climate ready   

4. Jonathan Mingo.. thick w/AJ Brown speed & durability..a 4.46 40 at 6'1"  220lbs..

5. Josh Downs.. 5'9 171 lbs. soaking wet.. 40 of 4.48.. good 10 split, if not jammed at 5 yrds. I lost money watching Josh drop balls in ACC champ game.. clearly, still not over it .. pushed Mingo ahead

6. AT Perry Wake Forest.. 6'3 198 lbs.. big target, that plays faster than his 40 of 4.47.. smooth routes & gets open

 

 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Hey Flug,

If I had a choice? If the RAS website was not a sorry site to compare players( it shows some, than not some), it would have been a 6 pack of WR's..  Zay Flowers vs AT Perry's RAS would not compare.. The best fit for the Browns imo?

1. Marvin Mims Oklahoma. 5'10 183/ speed/twitch .. 40 time 4.38.3-Cone 6.90.. don't think he gets to us at pick 40's?

2a). Zay Flowers BC (climate ready) 5'10 182 lbs. best WR in ACC/imo.. Josh Downs had a QB/not Flowers/ just get the ball in his radius area code..deep threat with twitch/yac is a browns need..finished his career as BC's all-time leader in career receptions (200), career receiving yards (3,056) and career receiving touchdowns (29).

2b.).. Parker Washington 5' 10" 204lbs.. pending pro day.. Zay or Parker?.. I'd be thrilled with either.. could not choose even when Parker's ankle injury happened.. You don't find many 5'10 college WR's like Parker with over 10" hands.. drops nothing & climate ready   

4. Jonathan Mingo.. thick w/AJ Brown speed & durability..a 4.46 40 at 6'1"  220lbs..

5. Josh Downs.. 5'9 171 lbs. soaking wet.. 40 of 4.48.. good 10 split, if not jammed at 5 yrds. I lost money watching Josh drop balls in ACC champ game.. clearly, still not over it .. pushed Mingo ahead

6. AT Perry Wake Forest.. 6'3 198 lbs.. big target, that plays faster than his 40 of 4.47.. smooth routes & gets open

 

 

Thanks for the list and the write-up Gumbs!  Well done.  I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about Zay Flowers. 

[TexasAg1969]

15 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Hey Flug,

If I had a choice? If the RAS website was not a sorry site to compare players( it shows some, than not some), it would have been a 6 pack of WR's..  Zay Flowers vs AT Perry's RAS would not compare.. The best fit for the Browns imo?

1. Marvin Mims Oklahoma. 5'10 183/ speed/twitch .. 40 time 4.38.3-Cone 6.90.. don't think he gets to us at pick 40's?

2a). Zay Flowers BC (climate ready) 5'10 182 lbs. best WR in ACC/imo.. Josh Downs had a QB/not Flowers/ just get the ball in his radius area code..deep threat with twitch/yac is a browns need..finished his career as BC's all-time leader in career receptions (200), career receiving yards (3,056) and career receiving touchdowns (29).

2b.).. Parker Washington 5' 10" 204lbs.. pending pro day.. Zay or Parker?.. I'd be thrilled with either.. could not choose even when Parker's ankle injury happened.. You don't find many 5'10 college WR's like Parker with over 10" hands.. drops nothing & climate ready   

4. Jonathan Mingo.. thick w/AJ Brown speed & durability..a 4.46 40 at 6'1"  220lbs..

5. Josh Downs.. 5'9 171 lbs. soaking wet.. 40 of 4.48.. good 10 split, if not jammed at 5 yrds. I lost money watching Josh drop balls in ACC champ game.. clearly, still not over it .. pushed Mingo ahead

6. AT Perry Wake Forest.. 6'3 198 lbs.. big target, that plays faster than his 40 of 4.47.. smooth routes & gets open

What no "Bobble" Boutte WR LSU for you?🤗

[ballpeen]

I still think the draft is about BPA.

 

That said, needs do come in to play.  I think needs and BPA will joint for us this year and a receiver will be the selection in round 2.  There are several receivers who should be available that will fall in to a grouping of players from which we can choose.

 

By that I mean you can probably make a nice, neat list of the top 10-15 players, but after that groups of players begin to grade out the same, or close enough to allow some flexibility in your choice.

 

The wildcard is if somebody starts to fall. At that point you probably just need to take the guy and readjust your draft plans.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

 

The wildcard 

 

 

[ballpeen]

Seems like there are a few every year.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I still think the draft is about BPA.

 

That said, needs do come in to play.  I think needs and BPA will joint for us this year and a receiver will be the selection in round 2.  There are several receivers who should be available that will fall in to a grouping of players from which we can choose.

 

By that I mean you can probably make a nice, neat list of the top 10-15 players, but after that groups of players begin to grade out the same, or close enough to allow some flexibility in your choice.

 

The wildcard is if somebody starts to fall. At that point you probably just need to take the guy and readjust your draft plans.

 

[gumby73]

On 3/15/2023 at 8:27 PM, Flugel said:

 I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about Zay Flowers. 

 

20 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

What no "Bobble" Boutte WR LSU for you?🤗

No ! hard Pass ! ^^

Fans or not fans of Panthers/Ravens WR Steve Smith Sr..

Youtube Steve Smith Sr. Cut to it breakdowns of this seasons WR class 👀..

Example.... Zay Flowers..

insane out route cuts all over his game-tape  

I'm starting to lose hope Zay Flowers gets to the 2nd Round 🥺No thanks to #89 Smitty

Morning Taps & Happy St. Patty Friday 🍻

[Flugel]

8 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

 

No ! hard Pass ! ^^

Fans or not fans of Panthers/Ravens WR Steve Smith Sr..

Youtube Steve Smith Sr. Cut to it breakdowns of this seasons WR class 👀..

Example.... Zay Flowers..

insane out route cuts all over his game-tape  

I'm starting to lose hope Zay Flowers gets to the 2nd Round 🥺

Morning Taps & Happy St. Patty Friday 🍻

Backatchya Gumbs!  🍻  

Yeah, you're probably right; but there's a lot of intriguing WR prospects that can help us at #42 (and later believe it or not). The Chiefs don't have to be the only team capable of finding a guy like Tyreek Hill in round 5 do they? Every draft rewards teams that do their homework/research beyond the first few rounds.  This one won't be any different.  Once upon a time we landed Brian Brennan in round 4 (in 84); and Elizabeth City State's Reggie Langhorne in round 7 (in 85).  These were productive receivers on our playoff teams that erased so many 4th quarter deficits they were called the Kardiac Kids.  Luck of the find rewards the diligence of the search IMO.

I'd love to see us add a good change of direction guy.  I think this is what our WR Corps lack more than anything.  

[Flugel]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:59 PM, gumby73 said:

Hey Flug,

If I had a choice? If the RAS website was not a sorry site to compare players( it shows some, than not some), it would have been a 6 pack of WR's..  Zay Flowers vs AT Perry's RAS would not compare.. The best fit for the Browns imo?

1. Marvin Mims Oklahoma. 5'10 183/ speed/twitch .. 40 time 4.38.3-Cone 6.90.. don't think he gets to us at pick 40's?

2a). Zay Flowers BC (climate ready) 5'10 182 lbs. best WR in ACC/imo.. Josh Downs had a QB/not Flowers/ just get the ball in his radius area code..deep threat with twitch/yac is a browns need..finished his career as BC's all-time leader in career receptions (200), career receiving yards (3,056) and career receiving touchdowns (29).

2b.).. Parker Washington 5' 10" 204lbs.. pending pro day.. Zay or Parker?.. I'd be thrilled with either.. could not choose even when Parker's ankle injury happened.. You don't find many 5'10 college WR's like Parker with over 10" hands.. drops nothing & climate ready   

4. Jonathan Mingo.. thick w/AJ Brown speed & durability..a 4.46 40 at 6'1"  220lbs..

5. Josh Downs.. 5'9 171 lbs. soaking wet.. 40 of 4.48.. good 10 split, if not jammed at 5 yrds. I lost money watching Josh drop balls in ACC champ game.. clearly, still not over it .. pushed Mingo ahead

6. AT Perry Wake Forest.. 6'3 198 lbs.. big target, that plays faster than his 40 of 4.47.. smooth routes & gets open

 

 

Here's some highlights for the guy (Parker Washington) that caught Dutch's eye against Ohio State. This guy definitely has some goodies for our passing game.  Looks like he's a good punt returner as well... Lindy's Draft Guide ranks him as their #12 WR, 5'9" 210 lbs, 4.47 40 time with a 3rd round projection.

 

[Flugel]

Here's Lindy's Draft Guide's 11th ranked WR Andrei Josivas at 6'3" 201 lbs projected for round 3 - they list his 40 time as 4.39. (They have Parker Washington from the previous post ranked 12th).  Who knows how accurate the Guide is at this point? But it provides some draft research with strengths and weaknesses for each.  It goes over all the position groups and gives each group a grade for 2023.  The WRs were given a B-.

 

[Flugel]

Lindy's 10th ranked WR Xavier Hutchinson, Iowa State WR 6'2" 207 lbs. 4.44 40 time. 2nd-3rd round projection.

 

[Flugel]

Lindy's #7 - #9 ranked WRs

#7 Josh Downs, North Carolina, 5'10" 171 lbs. 4.46 40 time. 2nd round projection.

# 8 Marvin Mims, Oklahoma WR, 5'11" 182 lbs, 4.37 40 time, 2nd round projection.

#9 Rakim Jarrett, Maryland WR, 6'0" 190 lbs, 4.37 40 time, 2nd round projection.

 

[Flugel]

Lindy's #6 ranked WR - Rashee Rice, SMU WR, 6'1" 200 lbs, 4.48 40 time, 2nd round projection

 

[gumby73]

10 hours ago, Flugel said:

Here's some highlights for the guy (Parker Washington) that caught Dutch's eye against Ohio State. This guy definitely has some goodies for our passing game.  Looks like he's a good punt returner as well... 

Agreed! The Factory of Cornerbacks of Columbus.Ohio had a rough day vs Parker Washington that day..

The Factory faces a youth overhaul into 2023 in the secondary... Recruited a nice class of now sophomores.. Hope to see them back to Buckeye balling soon 

[gumby73]

• Cleveland Browns

  Round 2, Pick 42

  LB

  Jack Campbell ✅*

  Trenton Simpson ✅*

   Drew Sanders 

  Dalyan Henley

  DL 

  Mazi Smith ✅*

  Keeanu Benton ✅

  Calijah Kancey ✅*

  Bryan Bresee

  Siaki Ika

  Tuli Tuipulotu

  member edit-Zach Pickens

  member edit-Gervon Dexter

   

  EDGE 

  Keion White

  Will McDonald IV ✅

  Felix Anudike-Uzomah

  Adetomiwa Adebawore  

  B.J. Ojulari 

  Isaiah Foskey

  Zach Harrison 

   

  S 

  Antonio Johnson

  Sydney Brown

  Chris Smith II

  Jordan Battle

   

  OT

  Anton Harrison

  Dawand Jones ✅*

  Darnell Wright ✅*

   

  TE

  Darnell Washington ✅

  Luke Musgrave

   

  WR 

  Josh Downs 

  Zay Flowers ✅*

  Jalin Hyatt

  Marvin Mims ✅*

   

  Pool of 30 that may get to #42.. but may not get to pick #98

   

  ✅  like 10 & 7 are real iffy they get to #43 ✅ *

   

   

  Whom you want to add? or Delete ?

[Dutch Oven]

At this moment, I'm very much on the Jack Campbell or Mazi Smith bandwagons for the 2nd round pick. 

A WR or DE would be super and/or duper there too. 

I'm sure best player available and need can converge for the Browns there. They could use help all over the roster. 

[calfoxwc]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:55 AM, Flugel said:

They should have an easier time, however, finding a speedy receiver at this point of the draft who can immediately be inserted into the lineup and help them stretch opposing defenses.

ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....

    a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?

  but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?

  What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?

But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....

    a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?

  but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?

  What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?

But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.

I have no idea why people accuse you of being obsessed with Baker Mayfield. 

So completely unwarranted.

[calfoxwc]

the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now,  either. Announcers were talking about it during games.

Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase.  Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.

  

[Unsympathetic]

Baker's biggest problem is that when he knows what's going on, he sucks.  He's on TB now, so don't pick Mike Evans before round 4 in next season's FF drafts.

 

I'll be very happy if Mazi Smith fell in the draft. But he'll likely get picked late in the first.. unless someone watches no tape of Brian Bresee and somehow picks BB instead in round1.

Keion White is an intriguing 280# DE who won't go much further than our spot in round 2 - but I'm tired of drafting Toolsy Prospects Who Can Cover RB's On Wheel Routes.

Zach Pickens is someone I'd think about if we trade back from our spot in round 2 into something later round 2 / first few in round 3.

 

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Baker's biggest problem is that when he knows what's going on, he sucks.  He's on TB now, so don't pick Mike Evans before round 4 in next season's FF drafts.

Zach Pickens is someone I'd think about if we trade back from our spot in round 2 into something later round 2 / first few in round 3.

I'd be more interested in Gervon Dexter DT Florida who is coming out early. https://floridagators.com/sports/football/roster/gervon-dexter/15186  Drafttek has him around spot 59 overall.

[gumby73]

added both in above DT list..thanks, missed both

member edit-Zach Pickens

member edit-Gervon Dexter

[tiamat63]

Morning, boys.  Feels good to be back to a place with wifi. 

 

Just going to get ahead of you both there, initial assessment on Pickens and Dex isn't good, if my word means anything.  Dex especially.  His first step is a real problem.  Good arm extension and leg drive, tends to forget his pad level quite a bit.  But I have real concerns about him facing NFL IOL who are going to fire off the ball fast and low. 

 Pickens is still sort of 'meh' for me. Watched him against Arkansas.   Came across a couple nice splash plays, one in particular where the center tried to fold him, he beat the center back over the top and all but shut down a short yardage situation.  That was nice, but there were other times he was too easily moved in the hole or didn't flow laterally + vertically with the inside zone.   For anyone who follows my stuff, the latter is something that tommy Togiai is probably the worst in the NFL at.  Which is why he's effective for us against heavy gap power teams like Baltimore, but so trash against heavy zone teams like ATL.   

 

 Although Pickens doesn't have the physical limitations such as height and wingspan that hold double T back.  So there's a good bit more raw material there to work with.  I just felt like he disappeared for long stretches for a kid being looked at as a top 100 pick. On the bright side, no rookie is going to come in and be first on the field barring absolute disaster in training camp. 

 

Edit: been scratching my head wondering who Gervon reminds me of, finally hit me - Javon Kinlaw. Only, not really the good parts. 

[tiamat63]

Early assessment on two linebackers.

Daiyan Henley - I like this kid. Gave all of Wazzou vs Oregon a watch.   Really triggers downhill and fly's.  Also does a good job using his first step quickness to setup free blockers headed to the 2nd level and make them miss while he's on his way to the ball carrier.   Excited to watch more.  

 Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure.  I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages.  Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker.   I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'.    Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's.  I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs.   The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season.    So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC. 

 I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps.   But I question process/pursuit at the same time.    When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early.  Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments.  But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran.    When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB.   So that was nice to see.    His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it.      I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick.  But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either.   More on him as well at a later date.

[Dutch Oven]

25 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure.  I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages.  Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker.   I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'.    Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's.  I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs.   The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season.    So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC. 

 I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps.   But I question process/pursuit at the same time.    When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early.  Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments.  But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran.    When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB.   So that was nice to see.    His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it.      I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick.  But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either.   More on him as well at a later date.

Well this is an interesting turn of events...

I re-read this thread today, and you were the first to bring Campbell up. 

[tiamat63]

39 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well this is an interesting turn of events...

I re-read this thread today, and you were the first to bring Campbell up. 

 I was.  There were things I saw a full speed, especially against the Buckeyes, that I liked.   Going back over and combing for details, going through the layers of the Iowa defense to understand the 'how' and 'why'...      I feel like he's one of those players I'm going to have to watch damn near every snap from not only this season, but then go back to 2021 to try and see/project the growth from the previous year before I become more settled on my finality of him.   As of right now, it's very up and down, very tepid.  

edit: And with the history of how this front office drafts in relation to RAS and Athletic score, I can see Campbell being near the very top of their board.    It's a good and bad thing.