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2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects


Dutch Oven

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31 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

@tiamat63

If Campbell and DT Mazi Smith are both available at #42, who would you take of the two?

 

I'm looking at this two ways. 

1st - with the information and (limited) film viewing I have now.  Been on vacation the last week, and then very busy the previous couple.  So I haven't had the time to put in the work I would like to.  

2nd - with the idea that I'm looking to pair a potential IDL and LB combo in the 2nd & 3rd.

(Then dip back into skill players with my 4th rounders, possible bundling one of them to move back up late day 2. But that's a conversation for another time)

 

With that said, if you gave me the option of taking...

Campbell at #42 and IDL at 3rd round (let's say Benton possibly?)

- OR- 

Mazi at #42 and Daiyan Henley 3rd round (LB) 

 

Then I'm going the Mazi and DH combo over Campbell at #42 and a TBD IDL 3rd round.

Edit: For now, that's my answer.   Always subject to change depending on what else film helps me dig up.  

 

 

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On 3/20/2023 at 4:52 PM, calfoxwc said:

ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....

   Im not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.

 

On 3/20/2023 at 8:03 PM, calfoxwc said:

the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now,  either. Announcers were talking about it during games.

Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase.  Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.

  

 

I'm going to unpack and tear down all of this.  Not for you, not at all.  No response from you will be read by myself.  This is for anyone who would believe that you have anything to contribute worth reading (spoiler alert, you don't).    Let's begin...

 

 Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need.  It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth.  With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there.  You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton.  Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic.  You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk. 

 

 Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022.  Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster. 

 

And you keep bringing up Jamarr and Burrow. So we'll deep dive into that one. 

 

During his injury shortened 2020 season, Burrow's stats looked like this. 

10 GS 

404 attempts

2,688 yards 

268.8 avg 

6.8 YPC 

13 TD's 

5 INT's. 

89.8 RTG. 

 

 Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone.  The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...

4,288 yards 

6.8 YPC 

21 TD's 

8 INT's 

65.3% comp 

-------------------

 Let's go a step further. We'll throw out the rookie season high and low games and work to find our true median. That brings us to numbers that look like. 

 262.3 YPG 

 10 TDs 

 3 INTs 

64.5% comp 

1.25 TDs per game to .3int.  So 4.15x more TDs per game than picks thrown. 

 All of those numbers best any 10 game stretch from Bakers career 2018-2020.  I checked.   That is with an offensive line that has graded out worse than the Browns over that same season and receivers, as you put it, needed Jamarr chase to "open things up".  Looking at personnel and Oline grades, the Browns 2019 team compares favorably to the Bengals 2020 group. (again, without Chase)   That was Baker's worst season. Where, even in his best, he still falls criminally short of numbers Burrow was approaching as a rook. 

 

The Bengals added Jamarr because, as a rookie, Joe Burrow was already better than a 3rd year Baker. Hell, senior season at LSU Joe was better than 3rd year NFL Baker.  They also went for a position for two reasons - BPA dictated as much, and CIN knew they had a QB who could maximize the skill set of said receiver.   Did they "need" him? No, it was luxury they have the QB ability to show off with. 

  If I give Tom Brady Randy Moss, then you're going to get 2007.   If I give Jacoby Brissett Randy Moss, yes your team will be better for it and so will your QB.  But you aren't going to be 2007 special.  Not even close.  

 Because the handicap, the bottleneck on your team, is your QB.  Who won't maximize the talent he has been handed.  You cannot have the most important position in the entire sport being the player that holds the offense under the glass ceiling.  Which was Baker's problem.  With that means you'll be overpaying and not getting equivalent value in return.    

Joey Buckets is still going to be great with an average group of receivers, we've seen some of that.  Baker will not be great with an average group of receivers, and we've seen that as well. 

 

Now, do I know for certain Watson is going to be THAT QB?  No.  But I hope to God he is.  But still, this is an evidence based game in a QB driven league.  Any and all evidence, from how defensive coaches structure and call their game, to how the stats look on the sheet, points in a direction that highly favored Deshaun. 

 

 Cal, I preferred it when you just came out of the closet as a Baker lover and nothing else.  Because I know I'm not even replying to a Browns fan, which is tragic.  But you only serve to embarrass yourself when you chime in with this nonsense.    You'll notice, aside from Dutch trolling you a bit, not a person besides myself bothered to respond.   Move on.  

 

Edit: something else I hadn't considered. 

Jacoby's stats projected over a 16 game season look like. 

3792 yards 

237ypg 

19 TDs 

8ints  

64% comp 

7.1 YPA 

 

High water mark of 2020. 

3563 yards 

222.8 YPG 

26TDs 

8ints 

62.8% comp 

7.3 YPA 

 

 

The high water mark again being Baker.  Why would I hand him $35+ mil a year for a 7 TD difference?   We understand Jacoby to be a journeyman QB.  Capable, completely unspectacular, and unable to elevate the talent around him.  

 So if the results are so comparable, then why all the hand-wringing about Baker?  It's white noise at this point. Best to let it go. ✌️

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need.  It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth.  With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there.  You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton.  Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic.  You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk. 

that's stupid. I sure the hell did. and got bitched at for it. Go back and look, but, you won't. Crap like "our wr's are fine" etc etc etc. Just to bash Baker. I kept talking about the improvement in the Bengals offense. That is a fact.

 

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone.  The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...

that is a lie, I "inferred" no such thing. Their two wr's were very, very good. But Chase made a huge, huge difference in their offense.

"While the universe of draft big boards strewn across the NFL media landscape seemed to have Pitts rated as the highest non-quarterback (he went No. 4 to Atlanta), Chase and Sewell were the best players at positions of need for the Bengals. If it wasn't rock-paper-scissors, but it could have been. But what's not left to chance is that the Bengals' struggling long ball now has one of the best deep receivers to ever play in college ball."

**********************************************

    I often said the Browns needed a deep threat, dynamic addition to their offense. Read the above quote.

I was correct, and if you are too much afraid to read my response,

read:

While the universe of draft big boards strewn across the NFL media landscape seemed to have Pitts rated as the highest non-quarterback (he went No. 4 to Atlanta), Chase and Sewell were the best players at positions of need for the Bengals. If it wasn't rock-paper-scissors, but it could have been. But what's not left to chance is that the Bengals' struggling long ball now has one of the best deep receivers to ever play in college ball.

But you "won't read..." haha. Then have other guys on the board look it up for you.

this one, too:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33239690/just-uncanny-how-bengals-joe-burrow-jamarr-chase-formed-their-unstoppable-connection

and other posters can lead you to this one, too:

https://www.cleveland.com/bengals/2022/10/what-the-bengals-offense-looks-like-without-jamarr-chase.html

Now, some of the haters who demanded that the Browns wr's were just fine (despite Doug Dieken mentioning more than once that the wr's were NOT GETTING OPEN................

NOW they are talking about the need to add a major WR even with the addition of Amari Cooper.

Just mentioned it. Your attempt to respond is duly noted as a bogus ego-inflating endeavor.

Try to have one nice day, maybe your first.

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7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022.  Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster. 

that is either a lie or you are too ignorant to be so arrogant. Maybe you would like to apply to be watson's new fulltime masseuse to make him "happy". wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Currently, ? really?

TodayThe Browns on Wednesday traded for Jets third-year receiver Elijah Moore, giving up their No. 42 overall pick and also getting the Jets' No. 74 -- in the third round -- in return. Moore,...
 
Sp. that article.... dated TODAY. Tiam, the more you try to kiss your own rear end, the more you look like a pompous ass.
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Hey, chicken little -

read this too:

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/elijah-moore-initial-impressions

"The Cleveland Browns have made no secret of the fact they wanted to add speed to this wide receiver group and the acquisition of Elijah Moore from the New York Jets also gives them a player that operates out of the slot, so the move hits on both points."

 

Hell, even the Browns agree with me, and I was saying it in 2020/2021/2022.

but no, you ran your supreme leader fake news fat mouth at me.

No one else had to respond because they didn't feel guilty.

got ya there, eh? I distinctly remember somebody telling me to STFU about a wr, our wr's are just fine.

no, they were not. The Browns know it. Sorry loser, you lose again.

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and one more thing, tiam -

Here is your own post from another thread: LOL

tiamat63

7.1 YPT. 

If you wanted a speed merchant who works the short to intermediate game, Moore appears to be that "classic" slot receiver. 

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43 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point. 

Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.

Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3.   Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.   

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32 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.

Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3.   Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.   

Yes, the big mountain of a man from Wisconsin, I was the silly goose who asked you about him back in the day. 

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Just 11 pages of smoke damage ;) 

Last draft season.. Martin Emerson was the browns 1st pick at pick #68

 so what could be so bad about starting at pick #74 & keeping pick #98 ? ( I was trading #98 a 4th & 5th to get as high as pick #72 in draft sims)

still some gems that could be found..    https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023

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13 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Just 11 pages of smoke damage ;) 

Last draft season.. Martin Emerson was the browns 1st pick at pick #68

 so what could be so bad about starting at pick #74 & keeping pick #98 ? ( I was trading #98 a 4th & 5th to get as high as pick #72 in draft sims)

still some gems that could be found..    https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023

Yes, some gems can obviously be found in the later rounds, but the odds decline.

Eventually the Browns will find themselves cutting good players because of the cap, and they need to fill those spots with young, cheaper drafted players. 

Starting in the third round in successive years is a tough way to ensure that. The problem is the current front office has to know that if they don't make the playoffs again this year, they won't have to worry about being in Cleveland in 2024. 

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Well now that RB D'Ernest Johnson has left the Browns we can be open to drafting one of the fastest RB's ever as BPA. Who you ask? Why none other than .....................................wait for it..................................😁

 

 

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22 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

That'll never NOT make me think about South Park.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/10/deshaun-watson-must-sit-for-deposition-in-latest-civil-lawsuit/

"

Brian Meany says:

Watson is a serial sexual deviant. That the Browns sold there soul to get in bed with him is…well so Brownish of them.
You got what you paid for…a average QB with massive personal problems.
The future is not so bright for the Browns."

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14 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm not sure what is funnier. 

1. How triggered cal is now

2. How desperate cal is to "get even" with tia because of this

3. How obvious it is that tia doesn't care

Careful now. You're about to get spammed with 4 straight messages answered by no one other than cal. LOL! Modus Operandi.

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The database did update some possible new targets at each pick..

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/nfl-draft-targets-2023?team=CLE not to exclude some others..

Felt bad for the USC player that tore his ACL at the Combine.. but, to fall from a late 1st round pick into the 3rd-4th round?

IOL | USC
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Take good info from anywhere.. who needs linemen?

Two mid-round Tackles to look further into( Wills ).. to big Blake Freeland & Carter Warren 🧐

See bottom of this link, to check out many on tape & Player Profiles..

 https://steelersdepot.com/2023/03/2023-nfl-draft-player-profiles-byu-ot-blake-freeland/

edit 3-25- updated guardrails board

 https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/Cleveland-Browns-Age-Athletics-Guardrails-Draft-Board-207194649/#207194649_1

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Dutch Oven's Not-So-Super Duper Mock Draft 1.0

3rd Round (#74): LB Jack Campbell, Iowa 6'4", 248lbs     

Built like a traditional middle linebacker, he's got the strength to anchor the inside of the defense, and is surprisingly nimble for a man his size. I'd have no problem with LB Daiyan Henley here either.

3rd Round (#98): DT Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin 6'4", 312lbs

Great physical tools should make him an asset vs the run, has the potential to give you something in pass rush department too.

4th Round: (#111) OT Braeden Daniels, Utah 6'4, 298lbs

Very experienced (43 college starts) and played multiple positions. Good upside, needs to gain weight/strength. 

4th Round (#126): TE Zack Kuntz, Old Dominion 6'8", 250lbs

Amazing catch radius, athleticism and a potential match-up nightmare. Like Daniels, needs to hit a NFL workout room because he would be woefully inadequate at this time trying to block as an in-line TE. Worth the draft pick on the potential jersey sales alone. 

5th Round (#140): OG Matthew Bergeron, Syracuse 6'5", 324lbs

Experienced as a college tackle, he projects as a guard for a zone-heavy team that values athletic movers on the inside. Versatile potential starter. 

5th Round (#142): DE Eku Leota, Auburn 6'3", 260lbs

 Long build for his height, he has a good combination of strength and quickness to be able to set the edge. Good motor, hard worker who graduated college in three years. Comp was Cincinnati's Sam Hubbard.

6th Round (#190): WR Dontay Demus Jr, Maryland 6'3", 213lbs

Athletic big bodied WR who was recovering from a knee injury. His ability to high-point the ball is his elite skill. Solid blocker.

7th Round (#229): RB Evan Hull, Northwestern 5'10" 210lbs

Mediocre athlete, but a tough kid who can catch the ball out of the backfield with the best of them. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Dutch Oven's Not-So-Super Duper Mock Draft 1.0

3rd Round (#74): LB Jack Campbell, Iowa 6'4", 248lbs     

Built like a traditional middle linebacker, he's got the strength to anchor the inside of the defense, and is surprisingly nimble for a man his size. I'd have no problem with LB Daiyan Henley here either.

3rd Round (#98): DT Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin 6'4", 312lbs

Great physical tools should make him an asset vs the run, has the potential to give you something in pass rush department too.

4th Round: (#111) OT Braeden Daniels, Utah 6'4, 298lbs

Very experienced (43 college starts) and played multiple positions. Good upside, needs to gain weight/strength. 

4th Round (#126): TE Zack Kuntz, Old Dominion 6'8", 250lbs

Amazing catch radius, athleticism and a potential match-up nightmare. Like Daniels, needs to hit a NFL workout room because he would be woefully inadequate at this time trying to block as an in-line TE. Worth the draft pick on the potential jersey sales alone. 

5th Round (#140): OG Matthew Bergeron, Syracuse 6'5", 324lbs

Experienced as a college tackle, he projects as a guard for a zone-heavy team that values athletic movers on the inside. Versatile potential starter. 

5th Round (#142): DE Eku Leota, Auburn 6'3", 260lbs

 Long build for his height, he has a good combination of strength and quickness to be able to set the edge. Good motor, hard worker who graduated college in three years. Comp was Cincinnati's Sam Hubbard.

6th Round (#190): WR Dontay Demus Jr, Maryland 6'3", 213lbs

Athletic big bodied WR who was recovering from a knee injury. His ability to high-point the ball is his elite skill. Solid blocker.

7th Round (#229): RB Evan Hull, Northwestern 5'10" 210lbs

Mediocre athlete, but a tough kid who can catch the ball out of the backfield with the best of them. 

 

Great job with that Dutch!  If we get Jack Campbell - you get a 12 pack of your favorite beer on me.  If we also get Benton, you can add one of those delicious looking pizzas you shared pictures of 2-3 months ago.  Those will be gems at that stage of the draft.  Let's have some fun with this stuff!   

I'll try to put one together by next weekend.

 

  

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@Korsou Dawg funny you bring him up. I was in a discussion about the Browns possibly being interested in him as a certain Lukas Van Ness lite, type option. 

 A player who can kick inside on sub packages and gap shoot.  He lacks technique, but his burst Is incredible.

Good find, glad someone else is bringing his name up. 

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4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

@Korsou Dawg funny you bring him up. I was in a discussion about the Browns possibly being interested in him as a certain Lukas Van Ness lite, type option. 

 A player who can kick inside on sub packages and gap shoot.  He lacks technique, but his burst Is incredible.

Good find, glad someone else is bringing his name up. 

CBS Sports has us taking YaYa as our first pick.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2023-nfl-three-round-mock-draft-bucs-take-tom-brady-heir-in-round-2-nfc-east-loads-up-on-defense/

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On 3/26/2023 at 4:40 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Dutch Oven's Not-So-Super Duper Mock Draft 1.0

3rd Round (#74): LB Jack Campbell, Iowa 6'4", 248lbs     

Built like a traditional middle linebacker, he's got the strength to anchor the inside of the defense, and is surprisingly nimble for a man his size. I'd have no problem with LB Daiyan Henley here either.

3rd Round (#98): DT Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin 6'4", 312lbs

Great physical tools should make him an asset vs the run, has the potential to give you something in pass rush department too.

4th Round: (#111) OT Braeden Daniels, Utah 6'4, 298lbs

Very experienced (43 college starts) and played multiple positions. Good upside, needs to gain weight/strength. 

4th Round (#126): TE Zack Kuntz, Old Dominion 6'8", 250lbs

Amazing catch radius, athleticism and a potential match-up nightmare. Like Daniels, needs to hit a NFL workout room because he would be woefully inadequate at this time trying to block as an in-line TE. Worth the draft pick on the potential jersey sales alone. 

5th Round (#140): OG Matthew Bergeron, Syracuse 6'5", 324lbs

Experienced as a college tackle, he projects as a guard for a zone-heavy team that values athletic movers on the inside. Versatile potential starter. 

5th Round (#142): DE Eku Leota, Auburn 6'3", 260lbs

 Long build for his height, he has a good combination of strength and quickness to be able to set the edge. Good motor, hard worker who graduated college in three years. Comp was Cincinnati's Sam Hubbard.

6th Round (#190): WR Dontay Demus Jr, Maryland 6'3", 213lbs

Athletic big bodied WR who was recovering from a knee injury. His ability to high-point the ball is his elite skill. Solid blocker.

7th Round (#229): RB Evan Hull, Northwestern 5'10" 210lbs

Mediocre athlete, but a tough kid who can catch the ball out of the backfield with the best of them. 

 

We interrupt all intelligent conversation with Flugel's Can't Quit My Day Job Mock Draft 1.0

3rd Round (#74) ILB Daiyan Henley, Washington State 6'1" 230lbs

LBer isn't a need but this defense could use an X-factor to force and get us turnovers.  It might have been a bit premature - but when I shared his highlights I wrote this might be my favorite guy in the whole draft.  In that video, from the very 1st play of him causing a turnover while a guy was being tackled - this guy is everywhere.  He's explosive and he flies to the football.  Even better, he's on time to the extent he stifles the point of attack.  At the time of my 1st impression - I had no idea @tiamat63 was already breaking down film of him and he was impressed.  

3rd Round (#98) DT Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin 6'4" 312lbs

Started and held his own as a true freshman as a Nose Tackle after finishing his high school wrestling career 48-2.  It's very rare for a player at Wisconsin to start all 4 years in that program like Benton did. He projects well in a 3-4 or a 4-3 which won't surprise anyone that has seen him play.  Great vision and reliable tackler.  Keeps a pad height that enables good leverage.  He's a good lateral mover that can be utilized in stunts.  Would look really good in orange and brown lining up next to Tomlinson.

4th Round (#111) LT Ryan Hayes, Michigan 6'6" 301lbs

Former high school basketball player and pitcher was recruited as a 6'6" TE at 271lbs before being moved to OL.  His biggest weakness is very short arms for a guy with his height.   Probably won't replace Wills immediately or at all this year.  BUT, he could line up as a dual purpose TE to the left of Wills in some double tight formations to get his feet wet helping to set the edge.  This is a very tough, hard nosed kid that will battle.  

4th Round (#126) OG/C Steve Avila, TCU 6'4" 330lbs

Team Captain for an offense Michigan couldn't stop in the BCS playoff game.  Was actually a 2 year Captain. Versatile enough to play all positions but LT - eventually settled in as a Center in 2021 and then LG in 2022. Very powerful.  Seems like the type of player Callahan would love to coach.  While the Browns are currently strong at OG and Pocic was a nice acquisition at Center - Bitonio is reaching the age Joe Thomas retired at and Teller had a nagging calf injury for much of last season.  Aside from that, Pocic missed a few starts to injury.

5th Round (#140) WR Jayden Reed, Michigan State 5'11" 191lbs

Began college football with great success at Western Michigan before transferring to Michigan State to be their biggest weapon in the passing game in 2021. Played through injuries in 2022 and showed impressive speed and versatility at the Senior Bowl.

5th Round (#142) OLB DeMarvion Overshown, Texas 6'3" 224lbs

Began his college career as a Safety and made it into the DB rotation. After a couple years he moved to LB where he became a star and leader of the defense.  Has good length and range as well as an arm length of about 33 inches.

6th Round (#190) S Tyreque Jones, Boise State 6'2" 207lbs

A 2 time all-conference selection. Has experience as both a traditional safety and nickel. Rare size and length with 34-inch arms. Listed as a Sleeper only this is the good kind that keeps his eyes open when he plays defense.

7th Round (#229) QB Stetson Bennett IV, Georgia 5'11" 190lbs

What would Johnny Manziel look like if he was sober and willing to look at the playbook?  A practice squad QB that will be really good at running the scout team offense.  If he's willing to put the work in - he could become the next Gardner Minshew II.  Stay tuned?

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