Tell me again why Browns Stadium shouldn't have roof

[mjp28]

9 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

I try to think of all sides of anything be it a problem,  challenge,  game or whatever and then reduce it down to the most important parts or key points. 

Here traditional limited use old school hard ass open air venue (all the +/- etc.)  versus a modern new virtually unlimited  use dome or retractable roof facility. 

The use, cost (always a BIG item) land procurement,  tax issues, parking all the variables that you can dream of here.  The successes and failures of similar ventures.   Any political factors of more interest now than before.   They go into the big business crock pot of ideas ...... and then the final decisions begin to emerge and let the billionaires take their sides and see what comes of it ..... or not. 

  Another generation lost ?   We'll see what happens........

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

 

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

One of the biggest myths concerning the Browns is that they are traditionally a smash-mouth football team.

At their most successful, the Browns have been a balanced, if not a team that is pass-prolific. 

On defense, I think of smash-mouth, physical teams having HOF Linebackers who'd tear your head off. George, Butkus and Singletary for the Bears. Nitschke for the Packers. Lambert for the Steelers. The Browns really have no LB in their history that really fits that mold. 

Another big myth is that the Browns have parlayed bad weather as some kind of advantage. That's categorically untrue. Look at their playoff record at home. Not exactly the Broncos at Mile High.  

[Bob806]

45 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

One of the biggest myths concerning the Browns is that they are traditionally a smash-mouth football team.

At their most successful, the Browns have been a balanced, if not a team that is pass-prolific. 

On defense, I think of smash-mouth, physical teams having HOF Linebackers who'd tear your head off. George, Butkus and Singletary for the Bears. Nitschke for the Packers. Lambert for the Steelers. The Browns really have no LB in their history that really fits that mold. 

 

Yep, the last time the Browns had any semblence of a great LB core was 1994. Truly maddening- and we get to see our rivals with all star LBs take over games way too many times.

The Browns have this small window of about 5 years to get this ship righted IMHO, before any "new stadium talk" will gain traction. Pretty much coincides with this Watson gamble....if the Browns don't capitalize on it, remain sub .500 uh oh.

Sorry fans, for the 1st time in my Browns fandom I wimped out and stayed home for the Saints game due to the weather. I've attended well over 300 home games since 1972, I wasn't going after shoveling the drifts off my driveway with 35 mph winds & gusts higher than that. Despite that, I'm anti-dome even though it would be "good for the region."

Regarding the dome vs open air, I worry the general public will be against funding it, pretty much rightfully so. Which raises my concern of an Alex Spanos/Stan Kroenke situation. One of the biggest complaints among the residents of the City of Cleveland is the neighborhoods have been ignored and projects such as Gateway, Euclid Corridor, & Ohio City developments have taken precedence. Oops, bordering on politics, I'll stop now lol.

Happy New Year everybody, Go Browns!!!!

 

[Orion]

Thanks for the responses and thoughts.   

My original thinking of this thread was for football home field advantage reasoning, with a caveat that money was no object (which, of course, it always is).

We have one person who hikes and climbs mountains like a billy-goat.  Good luck filling a stadium with outdoor adventurers.  Of course there's the stoned and sloshed bunch who'll have their shirts off.  But, I'm talking normal, everyday, regular people (que Joe Walsh Ordinary Average Guy) who wants to go and enjoy watching his/her favorite football team.  Key word, 'enjoy'.  Yes, it won't be as enjoyable if the team gets beat as expected...but would more people go to late season games if they didn't have to endure being subjected to lousy weather for 4 or 5 hours?    (rhetorical question)

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

19 hours ago, hoorta said:

Well yes, I was at Red Right 88... And I well remember a Rams game at old Municipal where it was so cold we had beer slushies.  But a lot of the serious climbs I've done- Mount Elbert in Colorado, the Grand Teton and Gannett Peak in Wyoming were in the late 1970s.   

As one of the guys (from Pittsburgh no less) that we hiked out of the Bridger Wilderness with... Yeah, nice August weather in the high country 30 degrees and light snow said, and I'll never forget it.. "What I consider a vacation, most folks would think it was severe torture."   

At this stage in life, I seek the desert and loathe the winter. However, if I had the chance to see the Browns in the AFC championship game by way of 50 yard line seats, I would attend if the game was played on the frigid, snowy lakefront, but honestly would refuse if it was in a dome.

Cleveland football is played on the lakefront. If a new stadium is built elsewhere, for me it will be another piece of America gone to hell.

[calfoxwc]

It's a tough question - I think there aren't enough folks who know how to dress for the weather to be safe at the worst of frozen cold snowy games. Dad and I went to a game that was really frozen, roaring wind, a lot of snow, etc - and we had a great time. There was so few fans there, most of us simply moved down to the first level of seats.

   To me, a retractable roof would be a great thing for the really tough weather on the lake front. Why it was not designed to have one added years later, beats me.

  So many go to games with tennis shoes, thin coats etc and leave by halftime or sooner. And the elderly, who don't get around as well anymore - it would save them from injuries in bad weather.

   I always loved the fresh air and the weather. But to build ANOTHER STADIUM somewhere else? baloney. Leave it to the haslams to move the team to Tennessee for nicer weather..... wouldn't surprise me at all at this point.

[mjp28]

Question  :  how many true home bad weather games do the Cleveland BROWNS have every year ?  Or decade ?

The answer(s) might suprise you.   There are sites that show the kickoff time weather for every  BROWNS or any NFL team.

It's the somewhat rare bad weather  "blizzard games"  that get the attention. 

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.   

And the hotels, motels, restaurants etc don't want to hear bad weather gameday.   Northern is still a tough sell, people want to vacation in Jan/ Feb in warm weather.

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

 

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.  

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

That's the thing, nobody wants to pay for it.

The residents of Cuyahoga County, for example voted in the "sin tax" on alcohol & tobacco. The other 87 counties didn't pay into that, even though quite a few of those residents have enjoyed time at Jacobs Field/Progressive Field & CLE Browns Stadium/First Energy Stadium. Particularly the NE Ohio region counties.

A public/private finance solution should be the answer. What % is the question.

 

 

[hoorta]

9 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Question  :  how many true home bad weather games do the Cleveland BROWNS have every year ?  Or decade ?

The answer(s) might surprise you.   There are sites that show the kickoff time weather for every  BROWNS or any NFL team.

It's the somewhat rare bad weather  "blizzard games"  that get the attention. 

So to look at all sides why build a dome/retractable stadium in the first place ?    My answer is economical development  through a multi use (but football NFL and college primary)  advantage.   For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one.    Plus the 1,001 other uses it affords.   

And the hotels, motels, restaurants etc don't want to hear bad weather gameday.   Northern is still a tough sell, people want to vacation in Jan/ Feb in warm weather.

So good idea - yes.  Perfect answer  - maybe.    I'd love to see it  -but-   I'm not paying for it.   

So please... Just SHOVE the wistful rationalization  Crap "we'll (Cleveland) NEVER get to host a Super Bowl Up your ass.  That's a one in a 20 year make that 40  year proposition...  Detroit...  1982... AND Counting...  

Green Bay will never get a Super Bowl... Ditto #3 metropolis in America, CHICAGO will never get one either- and that city has one HELL of a lot more infrastructure to host one FYI. Should I go on to list the other cities you can scratch off of the "once in a lifetime" piss poor argument as to having a Dome?  Didn't think so..... 

1001 other benefits? I'll bet you can't list more than 15. Hyperbole much?  Cost benefit analysis... Yeah, retractable roof Lucas Oil might cost about a billion or so today if you're lucky...  And HELL will freeze over if you're hallucinating the NFL combine would ever move out of Indianapolis to Cleveland.  Cleveland has gotten a bunch of "national" events, including the NFL Draft, a major political convention, and we didn't need to spend a billion dollars to get them either....       

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

So please... Just SHOVE the wistful rationalization  Crap "we'll (Cleveland) NEVER get to host a Super Bowl Up your ass.  That's a one in a 20 year make that 40  year proposition...  Detroit...  1982... AND Counting...  

Green Bay will never get a Super Bowl... Ditto #3 metropolis in America, CHICAGO will never get one either- and that city has one HELL of a lot more infrastructure to host one FYI. Should I go on to list the other cities you can scratch off of the "once in a lifetime" piss poor argument as to having a Dome?  Didn't think so..... 

1001 other benefits? I'll bet you can't list more than 15. Hyperbole much?  Cost benefit analysis... Yeah, retractable roof Lucas Oil might cost about a billion or so today if you're lucky...  And HELL will freeze over if you're hallucinating the NFL combine would ever move out of Indianapolis to Cleveland.  Cleveland has gotten a bunch of "national" events, including the NFL Draft, a major political convention, and we didn't need to spend a billion dollars to get them either....       

For someone who lives nowhere near Cleveland, and for someone who admits most likely won't be around when a new stadium is built, this topic consistently fires you up like no other 😁

[syd]

On 12/31/2022 at 2:42 AM, ballpeen said:

Screw the open air crap and how it is an advantage, yada,yada, yada.

 

The only sport that needs to be played in frozen conditions is hockey, and shoot, even they play indoors...lol

wasn't ohio state gonna play a outdoor hockey game some time soon

[mjp28]

24 minutes ago, syd said:

wasn't ohio state gonna play a outdoor hockey game some time soon

Oh yes !   

[Dutch Oven]

hoorta is right in one aspect, perhaps Cleveland could get one Super Bowl, perhaps. That's probably about it.

But a domed football stadium also could bring the NCAA Final Four, along with potentially down the road the MAC Championship, Big Ten Championship, etc. 

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds at the end of the decade. The Guardians aren't going anywhere, Progressive Field wasn't built quickly and cheaply originally, it is still a great place to watch a baseball game. There were big renovations in the middle of the 2010s there already, and an even more ambitious round of renovations starts after the 2023 season ends.

[jiggins7919]

What really hurts about that loss is that it appeared earlier that we'd have a decent shot at the playoffs. But nope. We choked to a dome team. And we dropped 2 touchdown passes at the very end of the game. Sums up the year, don't it? 

I absolutely detest bad weather games. It's not what I want to watch. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:51 PM, hoorta said:

A bunch of stuff that I wasn't responding to but am too buzzed to figure out how to erase. But since it quoted his thread.... Happy New Year buddy

I turned 68 last week. More of my family is dead than is alive. Add to that, I am fucked up on champagne and rum.

If I owned the Browns, here is what I would do.

1 - I would relable the stadium...-Cleveland Browns Stadium, sponsored by Centerior energy.

I would not ask permission nor give a fuck about my contract. I would assume that all future owners played in CB stadium.

2) - I would fuck the wives and daughters of anyone who tried to move the location of the stadium, and show video to their husband's and sons.

My Father, and many others walked the very soil where the Browns play.

Listen to me,. if you abandon where you came from, all you have will be of no value.

3) I would ask every local bar to display a neon sign that said Fuck Modell. I would pay for the signs.

4) I would literally have anyone who supported a dome, physically beaten to where they would never utter the word covered stadium again.

Now, I am not saying this is the right position, or the only position, but it is my position.

 

 

[syd]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Oh yes !   

i will need a reminder  i can't be there but will watch it 

thank you

[Canton Dawg]

On 12/31/2022 at 3:32 PM, mjp28 said:

For example you will never get a northern city SUPER BOWL without one. 

I think you’re forgetting about the SB being hosted in the Meadowlands in 2014.

[Orion]

53 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I think you’re forgetting about the SB being hosted in the Meadowlands in 2014.

Correct.  But, that was New York.  Cleveland is not NY.  And neither is Buffalo.

[Canton Dawg]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

Correct.  But, that was New York.  Cleveland is not NY.  And neither is Buffalo.

So the cold weather dilemma doesn’t effect NY teams?

Interesting 🤔

[Dutch Oven]

51 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

So the cold weather dilemma doesn’t effect NY teams?

Interesting 🤔

No, the NFL decided that having a Super Bowl in the greater NYC area was worth the potential bad weather.

Something they've never done anywhere else in the North. 

[Dutch Oven]

http://stadiumdb.com/news/2022/09/chicago_bears_unveiled_plans_for_arlington_heights_development#:~:text=Manica%20Architecture%20is%20responsible%20for,be%20built%20in%20Arlington%20Heights.

The Bears will be announcing their new stadium plans around the Super Bowl. They will be moving to the suburbs, like Los Angeles, on the site of an old racetrack. It will be a permanent domed stadium. 

[Canton Dawg]

32 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

No, the NFL decided that having a Super Bowl in the greater NYC area was worth the potential bad weather.

Something they've never done anywhere else in the North. 

I know it was a rhetorical question.

I was merely highlighting the fact that the NFL will bend their unwritten rules for the New Yorkers.

[ballpeen]

On 1/1/2023 at 6:32 PM, syd said:

wasn't ohio state gonna play a outdoor hockey game some time soon

Indeed.  The NHL just played an outdoor game at Fenway.  I'd hardly say 1 game a year is a good argument.

 

They are played for nostalgic reasons.  No team is going to take their entire season outdoors.

[Orion]

39 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

They are played for nostalgic reasons.  No team is going to take their entire season outdoors

Nope.  No playing hockey in the rain.

[syd]

47 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Indeed.  The NHL just played an outdoor game at Fenway.  I'd hardly say 1 game a year is a good argument.

 

They are played for nostalgic reasons.  No team is going to take their entire season outdoors.

it was kinda like a side note I was just wondering if they had played that game yet, not saying they should play hockey outdoors year round 

[Orion]

3 hours ago, syd said:

was just wondering if they had played that game yet

I think it's a semi-new New Year's Day tradition.

[ballpeen]

7 hours ago, syd said:

it was kinda like a side note I was just wondering if they had played that game yet, not saying they should play hockey outdoors year round 

Good deal.

 

I think the game is in February.  As a season ticket holder i keep getting info about being able to buy tickets for the game.  I don't pay any real attention.  I like Hockey and usually drive the 100 miles or so to Nashville to catch a couple of matches a year, but I won't drive 600 miles to go watch OSU/Mich play outside in Feb.

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Good deal.

 

I think the game is in February.  As a season ticket holder i keep getting info about being able to buy tickets for the game.  I don't pay any real attention.  I like Hockey and usually drive the 100 miles or so to Nashville to catch a couple of matches a year, but I won't drive 600 miles to go watch OSU/Mich play outside in Feb.

Saturday  February 18, 2023  -  4 pm.  

 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:54 AM, Canton Dawg said:

So the cold weather dilemma doesn’t effect NY teams?

Interesting 🤔

Market size$$$$$$$$$$$/

[Neo]

Don't know why if the technology is available, why any football franchise would want a strictly "open field" stadium. They should all have retractable roofs or just have a dome if the stadium is in an area where harsh weather is the norm. Playing in conditions like they did in the Browns/Saints game is just idiotic. This isn't the 50's anymore.