Tell me again why Browns Stadium shouldn't have roof

[syd]

oh fuck you make me laugh keep on trying 

[syd]

1 hour ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

This incoherent rant doesn't even make sense. Clearly you are drunk and high on Lawson's chip dip. 

hell ya im drunen as hell but if i wanna go to work tommorow i do  not have to

[Zombo]

4 hours ago, syd said:

hell ya im drunen as hell but if i wanna go to work tommorow i do  not have to

How did that work out?

Z

[mjp28]

13 hours ago, Zombo said:

The NFL decides what season is it is.

And domes are gay.

Congrats to KC and Philly who make watching the NFL enjoyable to watch with outdoor stadiums, natural sunlight, real grass and rabid fans.

Z

I  100+% agree  I don't like those ugly domes for 'Merican smash mouth football  now retractable stadiums I 100+% agree  with.  I'd like to go that way, just lay out the Cleveland and region benefits  like hotels, bars, parking, and other tax and revenue produing cash and jobs, jobs, jobs !

And   the massive ROI   -OR-  in everyday person's language how everyone will make   mo' money   having a regional use retractable stadium like hotels, for the 8 BROWNS GAMES  and the   endless   tractor pulls, rodeos,  concerts, conventions,  on and on and on.

The tax and many other $$$ benefits will go into the state and local cash drawers to pay back the stadium costs and other revenues to to save (and spend).  Who knows maybe they will lower our taxes !   .  

The retractable stadium  (or ugly dome) benefits are endless.    

[syd]

5 hours ago, Zombo said:

How did that work out?

Z

all good

[Zombo]

20 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I  100+% agree  I don't like those ugly domes for 'Merican smash mouth football  now retractable stadiums I 100+% agree  with.  I'd like to go that way, just lay out the Cleveland and region benefits  like hotels, bars, parking, and other tax and revenue produing cash and jobs, jobs, jobs !

And   the massive ROI   -OR-  in everyday person's language how everyone will make   mo' money   having a regional use retractable stadium like hotels, for the 8 BROWNS GAMES  and the   endless   tractor pulls, rodeos,  concerts, conventions,  on and on and on.

The tax and many other $$$ benefits will go into the state and local cash drawers to pay back the stadium costs and other revenues to to save (and spend).  Who knows maybe they will lower our taxes !   .  

The retractable stadium  (or ugly dome) benefits are endless.    

Retract this

 

[Pavo Joe]

Since none of our opinions amount to a hill of beans as far as what actually happens eventually, how has this thread survived this long ? Syd and Zombo just get a room. 

[Zombo]

3 hours ago, Pavo Joe said:

Since none of our opinions amount to a hill of beans as far as what actually happens eventually, how has this thread survived this long ? Syd and Zombo just get a room. 

So glad a homo from a Dome City is here to tell us our opinions don't matter. Maybe if you Georgia sheep would have stood up and been counted Falcons games wouldn't be as boring as a Ladies Curling.

 

[ballpeen]

I think the larger point is as much as a stadium costs to build it makes no sense to build something with limited use.

 

When was the last time you sold a home with no AC?

[Dutch Oven]

43 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I think the larger point is as much as a stadium costs to build it makes no sense to build something with limited use.

 

When was the last time you sold a home with no AC?

I'm sure Zombo thinks air conditioning is gay too. 

[Zombo]

55 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I think the larger point is as much as a stadium costs to build it makes no sense to build something with limited use.

 

When was the last time you sold a home with no AC?

Never, because a house with no air conditioning is useless in Florida.

A stadium with open air, natural light and real grass is perfect in Cleveland.

Don't bastardize the Browns because you want "other uses".

KISS: Browns come first.

Z

[syd]

3 hours ago, Zombo said:

So glad a homo from a Dome City is here to tell us our opinions don't matter. Maybe if you Georgia sheep would have stood up and been counted Falcons games wouldn't be as boring as a Ladies Curling.

 

i lived outside of atlanta for a few years  and let me tell ya even in the braves playoff runs and their football team doing well no one showed up to the games it's a sorry ass excuse for a sports town and if any team did move outta there no one would care

[syd]

the seattle seahawks moved from a dome to open air and last as i remember it rains alot up there and snows to

[Orion]

2 hours ago, syd said:

the seattle seahawks moved from a dome to open air and last as i remember it rains alot up there and snows to

Actually, despite Seattle being substantially more north than us (Cleveland OH and/or Foxborough MA) it is usually fed by air and ocean currents that make for milder winters than we get, both in average temperature and snowfall.  - Just sayin'.

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

Actually, despite Seattle being substantially more north than us (Cleveland OH and/or Foxborough MA) it is usually fed by air and ocean currents that make for milder winters than we get, both in average temperature and snowfall.  - Just sayin'.

Orion, you had a really good point this week in another thread.  It was something a long the line of we are/should be designing this team the way Philly has.  LOVED hearing that because we should be using more of an RPO offense with Deshaun Watson at the helm.  Look what that has done for Jalen Hurts, who's currently playing with a lot of hurts.  The point is, that inside read option for the QB is used with GREAT success for Josh Allen in Buffalo as well.  I'd love to see that with Chubb and Watson.  Steve Mariucci was showing replays of how that RPO playaction froze up one of the most instinctive LBers in the game today Fred Warner.  Taking away that 1st step instinct showed he couldn't get to plays he usually makes all over the field. Best thing about this offense?  It's more compatible with Watson and the personnel we have as well as the climate.

The challenge?  The Head Coach here who insists on calling the plays has an NFL experience prior to Cleveland of coaching only 1 team's offense that played in a DOME since his NFL coaching career began in 2006.   That reared it's ugly head in the game vrs New Orleans.  Nothing they did on offense that day showed an understanding that passing into wind chills of 15 degrees below zero was not advisable.  So, what happened?  The Saints used some RPO through Taysom Hill, who clobbered us with his legs.  The Browns were stopping the run when Dalton was in handing off.  Once our offense showed little consistency throwing the ball, they could stop Chubb from beating us.  I think it was the same game where the commentator did a freeze frame replay of 4 WRs doing the same vertical route and button hooking it off at the same distance downfield next to DBs.  If you connected the 4 dots across the field from 1 sideline to the other you had a straight horizontal line.  Very easy to defend aside from the weather making it tough on the QB; because there's no change of direction to challenge the decision making of the DBs or the possibility of clearing out any areas.   When I think of the Minnesota teams under Zimmer - I think of Charmin Soft toilet paper.  People questioned the QBs while Stefon Diggs wanted out of that offense.

On the Defensive side of the ball, Philly couldn't be a better example of how to set up your gridiron attack.  They have the IDL/DTs that make it easy to play LBer behind. They also gave CPR to Hasson Reddick's career as a 6'1" 240 lb LB after DEs Derek Barnett and Robert Quinn went on IR - and he became their #1 edge rusher.  I don't know if this would have been nearly possible if he was the lighter type of guy our FO prefers while thinking IDL/DTs aren't a priority in front of them.

I'm more worried about the FO and Head Coach in terms of the current design of offense they have in place or lack thereof.  I think we have some stubborn egos that might refuse an honest evaluation; because they allegedly know way more than the white noise surrounding them.  The good news is I think Schwartz can put a competent influence on the type of personnel needed on defense.  

I would prefer this team to choose a more similar path of the Philadelphia Eagles than that of the ONLY other NFL team Stefanski coached for - Minnesota.  It's up to the FO and the Head Coach to make this team all-weather compatible.  Do they have the collective experience and cohesion to do so?  I'd love to be pleasantly surprised here. We'll see...

 

[Orion]

10 hours ago, Flugel said:

Orion, you had a really good point this week in another thread.  It was something a long the line of we are/should be designing this team the way Philly has.

Thanks.  But actually I was saying that 'they', the Browns, wanted us to be more like Philly.  Especially on the D, and with the hiring of Schwartz...who likes his front line guys.

In reality however, I've never been a big fan of putting my QB's in position to get hurt.  I don't like them running the ball.  I need them for passing the ball....all season long...every season.  How helpful has Llamar Jackson been to his team the last two years?  

I don't mind them running when the play disintegrates, but if there's no real running room then just throw it away.  And if ya do run, get down before contact.  Give me the Tom Brady type.   Too much is invested in the QB position (we're a point in case) and they're too important to the success of a team.  Now, if Watson isn't great at being the Brady type and his strength is being the Jackson type, then that's what ya gotta do.  You can't keep trying to mash the guy into the round hole.  But I keep going back to DePodesta's wanting to hire Stef when Dorsey insisted on the Bill-Hilly.  I'm assuming DePo liked what Stef was doing.  And I'm wondering if we will now be mashing Stef into a round hole....and if he's malleable enough.

[Dutch Oven]

13 minutes ago, Orion said:

Thanks.  But actually I was saying that 'they', the Browns, wanted us to be more like Philly.  Especially on the D, and with the hiring of Schwartz...who likes his front line guys.

In reality however, I've never been a big fan of putting my QB's in position to get hurt.  I don't like them running the ball.  I need them for passing the ball....all season long...every season.  How helpful has Llamar Jackson been to his team the last two years?  

I don't mind them running when the play disintegrates, but if there's no real running room then just throw it away.  And if ya do run, get down before contact.  Give me the Tom Brady type.   Too much is invested in the QB position (we're a point in case) and they're too important to the success of a team.  Now, if Watson isn't great at being the Brady type and his strength is being the Jackson type, then that's what ya gotta do.  You can't keep trying to mash the guy into the round hole.  But I keep going back to DePodesta's wanting to hire Stef when Dorsey insisted on the Bill-Hilly.  I'm assuming DePo liked what Stef was doing.  And I'm wondering if we will now be mashing Stef into a round hole....and if he's malleable enough.

I think Watson is a far better passer than Jackson is, and all-around a better, more complete QB than Jackson. (Or, I should say, he was. No guarantee he is or will be, of course)

[syd]

21 hours ago, Orion said:

Actually, despite Seattle being substantially more north than us (Cleveland OH and/or Foxborough MA) it is usually fed by air and ocean currents that make for milder winters than we get, both in average temperature and snowfall.  - Just sayin'.

2 days before christmas but know bad weather in seattle

 

[Flugel]

39 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think Watson is a far better passer than Jackson is, and all-around a better, more complete QB than Jackson. (Or, I should say, he was. No guarantee he is or will be, of course)

Great point Dutch.  I think he was too!  For that to happen again, we can't rewire the guy to be something isn't.  We should look at some of the things he did well at Clemson as well as what he did when playing well in Houston.  This guy was great at improvise and play-action when he was on top of his game; and I think he's young enough to get a lot of that back.

We didn't sign Watson to be another Lamar Jackson any more than we signed him to be a cement shoe'd Tom Brady. My guess is we'd like him to be somewhere in between Jalen Hurts and Josh Allen. The last time we saw Philly playing in a Super Bowl, they had Nick Foles orchestrating the RPO in their win over New England.  They've reached the Super Bowl again using the RPO with a QB (Jalen Hurts) that rushed for 760 yards and 13 TDs while throwing 22 TD passes to just 6 INTs with a 101.5 passer rating in just 15 games.  

Josh Allen also plays in an RPO.  In 2022, he completed 63.3 % of his passes and threw for 4283 yards and 35 TD while he rushed for 762 yards at 6.2 ypc and 7 TDs.  Again, Watson doesn't have the bazooka Josh has; but he does have a RB way better than anything Josh has to handoff to in Buffalo.  That being the case, we won't need him to rush for 762 yards when he makes the inside read and hands off to our Pro Bowl RB or freezes a LBer and throws over him to an receiver running a Dig route.  Doing these 2 things well - will make Watson very efficient when he does keep the ball on the inside read.

Most people will agree Watson was a much better passer than Daniel Jones was prior to this past season.  Brian Daboll equipping Daniel Jones with an RPO this year enabled Jones to complete a career best 67.2% of his passes; and he also added 708 yards rushing at 5.9 ypc and 7 rushing TDs. The TD passes volume could have been better and much of that was due to the volume of injuries to the WR Corps. That said the TD:INT ratio was 15:5.  The Giants offense was much improved and better balanced.

I know people are worried about QBs getting hurt when they run the ball.  I just watched Brock Purdy get a serious elbow injury on his passing arm trying from the pocket.  Matthew Stafford also got injured in the pocket.  And let's be honest, our blind side/Left Tackle is nowhere near as good of a pass protector as Trent Williams.

Watching Watson parked in Stefanski's offense was tough to watch.  I'm hoping they find something that's a much better fit.  It doesn't have to be what I'm dreaming of in this conversation.  I'm open to suggestions or other ideas.

 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, syd said:

2 days before christmas but know bad weather in seattle

 

Bad day for Seattle auto insurance companies. 

Fedex was delivering a package at 4:30 today.  She said, "Kinda' late, I know, but they're blaming the ice storm in Memphis last night".  Memphis is the Fedex hub.  

[syd]

7 minutes ago, Orion said:

Bad day for Seattle auto insurance companies. 

Fedex was delivering a package at 4:30 today.  She said, "Kinda' late, I know, but they're blaming the ice storm in Memphis last night".  Memphis is the Fedex hub.  

se how the seats are covered you wont get wet

 

[Orion]

34 minutes ago, syd said:

se how the seats are covered you wont get wet

 

Good....cos they don't let me bring my umbrella inside. 

It's supposed to be freakin' cold this Saturday.   I'm glad my grandson's basketball playoff game is indoors. 

How come they don't play baseball in the rain and/or snow?   That game was made to be played outside in the open air, by real men, right?   Wait!  Maybe that's why they call them the 'boys' of summer. 

[ballpeen]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

Thanks.  But actually I was saying that 'they', the Browns, wanted us to be more like Philly.  Especially on the D, and with the hiring of Schwartz...who likes his front line guys.

In reality however, I've never been a big fan of putting my QB's in position to get hurt.  I don't like them running the ball.  I need them for passing the ball....all season long...every season.  How helpful has Llamar Jackson been to his team the last two years?  

I don't mind them running when the play disintegrates, but if there's no real running room then just throw it away.  And if ya do run, get down before contact.  Give me the Tom Brady type.   Too much is invested in the QB position (we're a point in case) and they're too important to the success of a team.  Now, if Watson isn't great at being the Brady type and his strength is being the Jackson type, then that's what ya gotta do.  You can't keep trying to mash the guy into the round hole.  But I keep going back to DePodesta's wanting to hire Stef when Dorsey insisted on the Bill-Hilly.  I'm assuming DePo liked what Stef was doing.  And I'm wondering if we will now be mashing Stef into a round hole....and if he's malleable enough.

You may not like it, but that is the way it is going to be.  As long as the high schools continue to run a spread, option type systems that is what the NFL is going to run.

 

Two things on running QB's.  Actuallt three.

 

1.  We tend to forget how many QBs got hurt by standing in the pocket like statues.

 

2.  We also tend to stick to old thinking and think about guys like Kosar or Unitas lumbering around v QB's who actually have some speed and skill at running the ball.  They also receive more protections than a traditional RB.  They can slide to give it up and they can't be hit near the sidelines the way backs can.

3.  I think it makes it easier for teams to make a seamless change at QB if their starter gets hurt.

[ballpeen]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

Bad day for Seattle auto insurance companies. 

Fedex was delivering a package at 4:30 today.  She said, "Kinda' late, I know, but they're blaming the ice storm in Memphis last night".  Memphis is the Fedex hub.  

Every package goes in through Memphis and out of Memphis.  If that Airport gets gummed up for some reason, it gums up the delivery system everywhere.

[ballpeen]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

Good....cos they don't let me bring my umbrella inside. 

It's supposed to be freakin' cold this Saturday.   I'm glad my grandson's basketball playoff game is indoors. 

How come they don't play baseball in the rain and/or snow?   That game was made to be played outside in the open air, by real men, right?   Wait!  Maybe that's why they call them the 'boys' of summer. 

Look at hockey.  It's a game to be played in frozen conditions and it has been played indoors for a long time.  I also wonder why all the college bowl games are played in places like New Orleans, Miami, and Pasadena and not places like Fargo and Buffalo?

[Orion]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Every package goes in through Memphis and out of Memphis.  If that Airport gets gummed up for some reason, it gums up the delivery system everywhere.

You are correct.  (of course, Fedex ground does not go through the Memphis hub).  And UPS air goes through Louisville KY.

[Orion]

5 hours ago, ballpeen said:

We also tend to stick to old thinking and think about guys like Kosar or Unitas lumbering around

Tom Brady.  

Yes, I know QB's can get hurt without running RPO's.  Look at the 9'ers Championship game.  But I like the way Cincy uses Joe Burrow.  I'd prefer to see Watson used like John Elway.  

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

Thanks.  But actually I was saying that 'they', the Browns, wanted us to be more like Philly.  Especially on the D, and with the hiring of Schwartz...who likes his front line guys.

In reality however, I've never been a big fan of putting my QB's in position to get hurt.  I don't like them running the ball.  I need them for passing the ball....all season long...every season.  How helpful has Llamar Jackson been to his team the last two years?  

I don't mind them running when the play disintegrates, but if there's no real running room then just throw it away.  And if ya do run, get down before contact.  Give me the Tom Brady type.   Too much is invested in the QB position (we're a point in case) and they're too important to the success of a team.  Now, if Watson isn't great at being the Brady type and his strength is being the Jackson type, then that's what ya gotta do.  You can't keep trying to mash the guy into the round hole.  But I keep going back to DePodesta's wanting to hire Stef when Dorsey insisted on the Bill-Hilly.  I'm assuming DePo liked what Stef was doing.  And I'm wondering if we will now be mashing Stef into a round hole....and if he's malleable enough.

I'll start where we agree.  Schwartz and his volume of experience will be a great thing for our defense.  And he does like HIS front line guys not to be confused with the IDL we've been counting on here the last 2 years or so.  The difference between Schwartz and the guy calling our offensive plays is that Stefanski's entire NFL experience prior to Cleveland was with 1 team only since 2006 that played in a climate controlled dome indoors.  Schwartz's wealth of experience on different teams exposed him to working in different defenses/systems; so the ability to adjust to an opponent seems to come easier to him than Stefanski.  How many early leads did the Browns lose last year?

Where did I say I wanted Lamar Jackson?  That's you bringing up an extreme example of a QB whose team designed and called running plays for him to the extent he exceeded 1000 yards rushing in 2019 and 2020. We have Nick Chubb and Kareen Hunt very well paid to take care of majority of our rushing stats.   Excessive wear and tear to the QB isn't required in an RPO.   That said, the only injury he had last year was an elbow injury when he got hit throwing the ball in the pocket.  It's up to his coaching staff and himself at how safe and smart he wants to be when he does run.  

Isn't it possible to like a QB that is very accurate and talented at passing that can also RUN the ball?  Doesn't Josh Allen do this?  Watson isn't built to try to take on LBers like Josh tries to do at times so I doubt we'll see him pretending he's Larry Csonka.  That said, the only injury Allen had last year was an elbow injury when he got hit throwing the ball in the pocket.  It's up to him and his coaching staff at how safe and smart he wants to be when he does run.    Another QB that was great at throwing the ball even though he never had a great Offensive Line was Russell Wilson; so he extended drives with his legs as often as he needed to.  The ONLY serious injury he had was about 2 or 3 years ago IN THE POCKET when he dislocated/fractured the fingers on his throwing hand.  I've never seen the same guy since that happened; and neither have the 2 teams that employed him.  

And your other extreme of preferring a Tom Brady when Jimmy Haslam is our owner (not to be confused with Robert Kraft) would give the cement shoe'd QB you desire a Jedrick Wills responsible for his blind side.  Good luck with that one.  The last time I saw Brady play against the Browns he had a LT looking/playing like Wills. It wasn't a very good day for the GOAT.

Rather than rewiring the QB the Browns did sign, how about using all of his football assets so success is possible?  I keep forgetting this franchise isn't owned by Robert Kraft in this conversation too. That said, it doesn't have to be an RPO.  That's just 1 idea. I like it because we have a Pro Bowl Guard on either side of Center where the first inside read takes place and a Pro Bowl RB that should limit the frequency of how often Watson needs to keep the ball (especially when he can throw the ball as one of the options when he doesn't hand it to Chubb).  I'm open to other ideas that don't pretend it's easy to see the next Tom Brady playing for the Browns.  If we're gonna go back to previous eras of QBs and dream - why not hope we have the next Otto Graham that can run or throw based on what the defense is giving him?  

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Flugel

[nickers]

46 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I'll start where we agree.  Schwartz and his volume of experience will be a great thing for our defense.  And he does like HIS front line guys not to be confused with the IDL we've been counting on here the last 2 years or so.  The difference between Schwartz and the guy calling our offensive plays is that Stefanski's entire NFL experience prior to Cleveland was with 1 team only since 2006 that played in a climate controlled dome indoors.  Schwartz's wealth of experience on different teams exposed him to working in different defenses/systems; so the ability to adjust to an opponent seems to come easier to him than Stefanski.  How many early leads did the Browns lose last year?

Where did I say I wanted Lamar Jackson?  That's you bringing up an extreme example of a QB whose team designed and called running plays for him to the extent he exceeded 1000 yards rushing in 2019 and 2020. We have Nick Chubb and Kareen Hunt very well paid to take care of majority of our rushing stats.   Excessive wear and tear to the QB isn't required in an RPO.   That said, the only injury he had last year was an elbow injury when he got hit throwing the ball in the pocket.  It's up to his coaching staff and himself at how safe and smart he wants to be when he does run.  

Isn't it possible to like a QB that is very accurate and talented at passing that can also RUN the ball?  Doesn't Josh Allen do this?  Watson isn't built to try to take on LBers like Josh tries to do at times so I doubt we'll see him pretending he's Larry Csonka.  That said, the only injury Allen had last year was an elbow injury when he got hit throwing the ball in the pocket.  It's up to him and his coaching staff at how safe and smart he wants to be when he does run.    Another QB that was great at throwing the ball even though he never had a great Offensive Line was Russell Wilson; so he extended drives with his legs as often as he needed to.  The ONLY serious injury he had was about 2 or 3 years ago IN THE POCKET when he dislocated/fractured the fingers on his throwing hand.  I've never seen the same guy since that happened; and neither have the 2 teams that employed him.  

And your other extreme of preferring a Tom Brady when Jimmy Haslam is our owner (not to be confused with Robert Kraft) would give the cement shoe'd QB you desire a Jedrick Wills responsible for his blind side.  Good luck with that one.  The last time I saw Brady play against the Browns he had a LT looking/playing like Wills. It wasn't a very good day for the GOAT.

Rather than rewiring the QB the Browns did sign, how about using all of his football assets so success is possible?  I keep forgetting this franchise isn't owned by Robert Kraft in this conversation too. That said, it doesn't have to be an RPO.  That's just 1 idea. I like it because we have a Pro Bowl Guard on either side of Center where the first inside read takes place and a Pro Bowl RB that should limit the frequency of how often Watson needs to keep the ball (especially when he can throw the ball as one of the options when he doesn't hand it to Chubb).  I'm open to other ideas that don't pretend it's easy to see the next Tom Brady playing for the Browns.  If we're gonna go back to previous eras of QBs and dream - why not hope we have the next Otto Graham that can run or throw based on what the defense is giving him?  

 

It will be nice to see the Browns playing a "NORMAL" defense for once

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Tom Brady.  

Yes, I know QB's can get hurt without running RPO's.  Look at the 9'ers Championship game.  But I like the way Cincy uses Joe Burrow.  I'd prefer to see Watson used like John Elway.  

I don't think Elways was used that way.  It just happened.

 

I don't think we will run many deigned QB runs.  Maybe 2-3 a game....not counting QB sneaks.  I do think he will not be discouraged from tucking  and running.

No doubt we want him being smart.  take what you can get then slide in to 2nd base.