Dutch Oven Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said: Question about Watson’s throwing mechanics. A number of his throws this last game reminded me of a basketball hook shot, more wrist and elbow than shoulder. I don’t think that’s any kind of astute observation, the guy’s got a bad shoulder and all, but l feel like he’s been working at these types of throws the last few games with mixed results, but l think he’s found a groove and even figuring out how to sling some longer passes like that. Anyone else seeing this or is it in my head? Yeah, I think tia mentioned something similar during the game thread too. Instead of driving the with a complete follow-through he almost looks like he's flicking the ball with more of his wrist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 43 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said: Question about Watson’s throwing mechanics. A number of his throws this last game reminded me of a basketball hook shot, more wrist and elbow than shoulder. I don’t think that’s any kind of astute observation, the guy’s got a bad shoulder and all, but l feel like he’s been working at these types of throws the last few games with mixed results, but l think he’s found a groove and even figuring out how to sling some longer passes like that. Anyone else seeing this or is it in my head? The biggest problem is how inconsistent Watsons current motion is. It's clear, from what he's doing and how he's constantly working and stretching his shoulder between snaps, that there's still pain and discomfort. The most reoccurring theme almost looks like he's "pushing" the ball, ending with his palm facing out, when he tries to put any sauce on it. Results have been mixed. But it would help explain the lower throws. Side note, nobody tell Cal that both Baker and Josh Allen are looking painfully average right now. Another int for the former on a ball that was poorly placed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted November 14, 2023 Report Share Posted November 14, 2023 9 hours ago, tiamat63 said: The biggest problem is how inconsistent Watsons current motion is. It's clear, from what he's doing and how he's constantly working and stretching his shoulder between snaps, that there's still pain and discomfort. The most reoccurring theme almost looks like he's "pushing" the ball, ending with his palm facing out, when he tries to put any sauce on it. Results have been mixed. But it would help explain the lower throws. Side note, nobody tell Cal that both Baker and Josh Allen are looking painfully average right now. Another int for the former on a ball that was poorly placed. Thanks Tia (and Dutch). I’m encouraged that he’s finding a way to push through it and seems to get better as the game goes on, sorta like a starting pitcher who doesn’t have his best stuff when the game starts and has to take a couple innings to find it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2023 It hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 I'm trying to get things done at work and using my phone, apologies for the shoddy work. My PC at work doesn't have the editing stuff I have at home. The biggest looks DTR and the Browns couldn't solve the second half were the cover 6 ones. The Steelers would spin their safety boundary, play cover 2 to the short side and protect Patrick, while allowing him to use his strength underneath. And to the field they would play quarters, mostly a bracket and inside shade on the #2, while being aggressive on first breaks on the #1. With a rookie QB, barring few exceptions, and incredibly shakey pass protection on the edge, you're going to take your quick looks and work the shorter side. Working the field progression means that your OTs have to hold up (they weren't) and your QB needs to be decisive and accurate outside and downfield (he wasn't). I have a feeling those high misses from earlier put the fear of God into the coaching staff about any throw past 10-ish yards. Toss in the Steelers edge rush and that's what you get. It also doesn't help that, when the Browns may have gotten a bit of a favorable box count, they got their ass whipped in the 2nd half up front. The Steelers dline really stepped their game up the second half. Steelers did a lot of what the Bears did a couple years ago against our running game. More specifically, against our boot action game. They screamed upfield off the edges away from the action and went directly for Baker. Which is why Chubb has the day he did vs CHI and got a healthy diet of carries. Sunday, after that pass to Njoku on the waggle, Pittsburgh had pretty much seen enough and decided the same. Ford isn't Chubb and his ability to press, see and cutback with acceleration and strength, creating yards above expected, is no where the same. Not sure yet if the teams ahead of us have that same defensive strength. But the obvious counter is to structure your runs and the ball action off of it, to the interior. But that also means you're asking DTR to work in tighter lateral space and to drive the ball downfield from behind your guards. Not quite sure he's ready to work in that level of traffic, given his build as well. But a taller, perhaps more seasoned QB might... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: But a taller, perhaps more seasoned QB might... "So you're saying there's a chance....."😱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: I have a feeling those high misses from earlier put the fear of God into the coaching staff about any throw past 10-ish yards. Toss in the Steelers edge rush and that's what you get. Amen ^^ my brother in law called me from Toledo at halftime, agreeing it won't change coming out of the 2nd half room.. PJ Walker decided on tossing those into the dirt short ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said: "So you're saying there's a chance....."😱 Worth pointing out, the Jets game, probably more so than the rest, will be an absolute Tressel-ball slugfest. Flacco has a great understanding of their coaches, calls and tendencies both offense and defense. Also means he gets 6 weeks to be ready. And while our Oline struggled against the Steelers, Dawand held up really well against Jermaine Johnson in pre-season. If Flacco were to start by then, I'd feel much better about us being able to protect him and limit turnovers. The more I look at it, the more I believe the coaches have those last two games, Jets Bengals, as the must haves. Those two as wins most likely secure you a wildcard shot. Not saying you're not trying to win more than that, but I'm looking at what the Browns deal with injury wise, against what would be the most favorable matchups. Just like 07, might come down to the last two weeks, and the final having to be beating Cincy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: Worth pointing out, the Jets game, probably more so than the rest, will be an absolute Tressel-ball slugfest. Flacco has a great understanding of their coaches, calls and tendencies both offense and defense. Also means he gets 6 weeks to be ready. And while our Oline struggled against the Steelers, Dawand held up really well against Jermaine Johnson in pre-season. If Flacco were to start by then, I'd feel much better about us being able to protect him and limit turnovers. The more I look at it, the more I believe the coaches have those last two games, Jets Bengals, as the must haves. Those two as wins most likely secure you a wildcard shot. Not saying you're not trying to win more than that, but I'm looking at what the Browns deal with injury wise, against what would be the most favorable matchups. Just like 07, might come down to the last two weeks, and the final having to be beating Cincy. I'm not worried about Cincy too much without Joe B. Jets have a better D though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Steelers did a lot of what the Bears did a couple years ago against our running game. More specifically, against our boot action game. They screamed upfield off the edges away from the action and went directly for Baker. Which is why Chubb has the day he did vs CHI and got a healthy diet of carries. Sunday, after that pass to Njoku on the waggle, Pittsburgh had pretty much seen enough and decided the same. Ford isn't Chubb and his ability to press, see and cutback with acceleration and strength, creating yards above expected, is no where the same. Nobody is Chubb, but I really feel like strong has the better vision and acceleration compared to Ford. Would like to see him get more of those inside carries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 Thoughts on the Rams game, because the defense was again pick and rolled to death. Brownies have been playing more cover 2 lately. I'd venture the uptick is from the injuries at corner, specifically Ward. L.A. came out, used a ton of motion like they always do, and attacked the 2 high structures we flat out suck at. When it was man coverage, they exploited off coverage. This was an early bench/flat combo at the top that Mike Ford blew up. We rightfully celebrated this play. ------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- But on a preceding one, Kupp was shaking loose downfield and over the middle vs cover zero. One of the things that impresses me the most about Sean McVay is his recall. Dude see's how you defend him, files it away and remembers it like a computer. Only to come back to it at the right time. He's a solid coach and good offensive mind. While this play was a completion to the outside against the off coverage I had mentioned, the Rams coaching staff basically checked their boxes and said "yeah, we'll come back to that soon". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- The Touchdown on this drive, the one to Nacua. Was against the Browns running an inverted cover 2, with Taki having to run the seam to help choke off the intermediate and under part of the middle. Only Stafford has seen that look before, so he tosses a beautiful, veteran throw that his Nacua in stride. Beats Emerson and Taki for 6 points. The above made that play possible. Because it was clear we were going to be playing quite a bit of Middle Field open to protect our corners. The safety situation for this team, outside of Thornhill, is quite shaky. The DB's really depend on the health and talent of our corners to cover up their bad smells. Generally that's the mark of good to elite safety play - when it's the other way around. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This was when I knew we were in serious shit. Rams motion from a stack to a trips. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- You run the #1 and #2 upfield in a Divide. The #3 (depending on how you tag him) just runs underneath it to cheese flat. ---------------------------------------------- When you have nickel on the pressure, a CB high and outside and a DB high and inside, this is another grip and rip by Stafford. It's a high percentage throw, allows for good YAC and forces your defense to either be nickel and dimed up and down the field, or to take some chances. Either way, this motion just turned into a quick 'void' throw for Stafford. It's there, it's easy, take the cheap. The above stuff is what setup the Rams for the kill shots they put on us in the 2nd half. Defense just wasn't healthy enough to respond early and the offense, while they tried, faltered late down the line. What this did demonstrate is that the blueprint to beat this defense hasn't changed since the first Ravens game. We still struggle with communication issues, we still struggle with health. And the current safety situation, especially with Hickman playing center field, is certainly going to burn this team. It should have this past Sunday, but good fortune has smiled on CLE this season more often than I remember in my lifetime. Quick thoughts this past weekend vs Chi-Town. The running game is one parts injury, one parts Ford needing to be a more consistent and decisive runner. When we run gap/power, he's too quick to sprint to the hole. Plus we're not built to play that type of game, even more so when you consider our injuries. When we run inside zone, he losses precious steps often and costs himself generated more yards above expected. While he's solid at taking on contact and generating some YAC, he isn't 'good', let alone elite. And he often can't make up for it with a more fluid and anticipatory running style. Right now I'd say that's again, part in due to the shuffling of the Oline, but also he just has this tendency on occasion to not fully trust his eyes or feet. When you're cutting off the read point leverage back inside, the last thing you want to do his find yourself chopping your steps THIS much, and damn near coming to a dead stop. You should be leaning through crease, then exploding through the hole and making the tackling angle more difficult for 3rd level pursuit because of your burst on speed. Instead he stops to verify the hole, THEN continues forward. ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------ It isn't always fair, but I need you to run with more belief in yourself and better pacing. Be aggressive when it's called for, be patient when it's called for. But Ford has to do a better job contributing to his yards above expected. RE: Joe and the first drive struggles. Getting Njoku those open looks against pressure, has been a drum I've beat since Watson was starting. Now that he's catching the ball, the offense is moving more. He'll be open, don't be afraid to sling it. But that said, I need Flacco to keep finding him. I can't have missed opportunities THIS big on the first couple drives. - Nick Harris is a problem at center. Billings owned him all game and it didn't matter in which way. Sucks he didn't pan out with Cleveland. But then again, I wonder how he'd fit in when a DC that loves upfield, single gap aggression vs a player who just parks his ass in the shade and nobody moves him. - Safety play is a REAL problem. Ronnie Hickman had a couple blown coverages the Bears should have connected on. He's just getting lost in how fast everything is moving. The drop on the broken scramble by Fields looks like Man 1. Hickman chased the over with Emerson in trail. We have a history of our DB's chasing Over routes and giving up big plays behind them (Grant, looking at you) This was another one of those 'good fortune' moments where Taki was fighting for his life downfield. - Alex Wright has found a home on the IDL in subpackages. He generated a few nice pressures that helped lead to errant throws. Good to see Schwartz getting some production out of him. He's still an incredibly limited player, but something is better than nothing. - Ika got his first snaps of the year and looked 'meh'. Game is fast, he isn't quite game shape yet... clearly needed some hits to get his feet under him. Had a few nice moments, had a few not so nice moments. Lost his base a couple times trying to come out of his stance and get upfield. His goal line work was the best of the day. By the way, Bears center should have been called for a false start - twice. Simulating a snap with the beyond obvious head bob to draw DL offsides is a no-no. - Harris and Dalvin played great. Their level helped keep Fields off balance with that interior push, but not letting him escape vertically. - Jordan Elliot has been playing inspired football, a motor from him I haven't seen before. Doesn't mean it's good though. Still a below average IDL, but at least I see the effort. - Too many penalties, injuries and overall inefficiency from the offense. Big breaks seemed to go our way, VERY grateful for that and the win. But that's no way to consistently pick up a dub. 3 games left, you need one win to likely get that wildcard spot. I still contend it has to be over Cincy since they're still well in the thick of the hunt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 I think I'm finished with the Alex Wright and James Hudson Experience. At a certain point you're not Developmental.. you're a CFL player. Or the UFL, the new one after the USFL merged with the XFL. Ronnie Hickman was undrafted for a reason. Harrison Bryant.. I suppose can stay TE3, but I thought NFL players had heard of switching the ball from one arm to the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 On 1/13/2024 at 10:03 PM, Unsympathetic said: I think I'm finished with the Alex Wright and James Hudson Experience. At a certain point you're not Developmental.. you're a CFL player. Or the UFL, the new one after the USFL merged with the XFL. Ronnie Hickman was undrafted for a reason. Harrison Bryant.. I suppose can stay TE3, but I thought NFL players had heard of switching the ball from one arm to the other. Wright was finally found a role he could contribute just a bit. But his role, once understood how limited it was, could be exploited. His ability to effect the game in that role can't balance out said liability. Hudson just isn't progressing and he is what he is, same for Harrison Bryant. Ronnie is Ronnie. Physically gifted by eyes and mind haven't grown since his sophomore year at tOSU. At times he looks like a cut down version of Taylor Mays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 3 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Ronnie is Ronnie. Physically gifted by eyes and mind haven't grown since his sophomore year at tOSU. At times he looks like a cut down version of Taylor Mays. Oh wow, Taylor Mays. That's a name I haven't heard, read or thought of in roughly a million years. I remember top 5 of the draft hype surrounding him while he was at USC. Heard another name I haven't thought of in forever, this is a DEEP dive for Ohio State football. Remember RB Brionte Dunn of Canton Glenoak? He was supposed to be another Jonathan "Beanie" Wells, but the kid was run so much in HS by the time he got to CBus his knees were moosh. "Moosh" is Italian-American for "not good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 18 Author Report Share Posted January 18 On 1/16/2024 at 6:17 PM, Dutch Oven said: Oh wow, Taylor Mays. That's a name I haven't heard, read or thought of in roughly a million years. I remember top 5 of the draft hype surrounding him while he was at USC. Heard another name I haven't thought of in forever, this is a DEEP dive for Ohio State football. Remember RB Brionte Dunn of Canton Glenoak? He was supposed to be another Jonathan "Beanie" Wells, but the kid was run so much in HS by the time he got to CBus his knees were moosh. "Moosh" is Italian-American for "not good". Yeah, his knees reminded me of 'Tone quite a bit. Basically it was 3 years until the NFL. But by the time he got midway through his sophomore year at tOSU, you could see the wear and tear. Which, speaking of Beanie, was the reason for the big push to get him. Apart from being the #1 RB recruit, he got a ton of minutes a freshman under Tress. Rare unless you were a special talent or he just absolutely needed you to take starting snaps. Beanie took a lot of the carries Mo and Brandon Joe had the year or two previous, only difference is he was actually an efficient and much more effective runner. But that also helped keep Pittman fresh during that 06' season. I say that because Dunn, like you compared him too, was supposed to be the next Beanie. And like Beanie, the hopes for him his freshman year was backing up and putting in work behind Carlos Hyde. He had a couple moments, dude just couldn't string it together on, but also off the field. Zeke came in during the 2013 season, and the rest is history 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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