Watson's shoulder

[Westside Steve]

This might be superfluous but I don't recall the play in which he got hurt. Anybody see a replay of that? Sac? Take off running?

Thanks

WSS 

[bbedward]

I think they said it was the 1 QB sneak

[BernieSuperBowl2]

Right at the end he takes a helmet to his throwing shoulder

 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

50 minutes ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

Right at the end he takes a helmet to his throwing shoulder

 

 

 

When in the game did that happen?

I saw something a couple days ago that this happened when the Browns had the game in hand, which lends the question why Stefanski is calling designed run games with your starting QB with the win pretty much secured, a week after losing your Pro Bowl RB....

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

This might be superfluous but I don't recall the play in which he got hurt. Anybody see a replay of that? Sac? Take off running?

Thanks

WSS 

If is wasn't for bad luck.......

Why didn't we keep Brissett?

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

If is wasn't for bad luck.......

Why didn't we keep Brissett?

I believe he was looking for more of an opportunity to play.  It seemed like we were an afterthought for him 

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

When in the game did that happen?

I saw something a couple days ago that this happened when the Browns had the game in hand, which lends the question why Stefanski is calling designed run games with your starting QB with the win pretty much secured, a week after losing your Pro Bowl RB....

The BIGGER question is why is Stefanski still calling our plays?  Our defense felt like they ran a 10 k in that 1st quarter with the complete lack of time of possession the horrible play calling led to.  So where did that leave us and the home crowd?  It left everyone feeling like Baltimore now owns the Ravens and the Browns.  

[BernieSuperBowl2]

DTR looked like a crackhead, both figuratively and literally. Stefanski doesn't know how to call non-Nick Chubb plays 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

Right at the end he takes a helmet to his throwing shoulder

 

 

 

Yup.  That's the play.  I was like, Why didn't he just get down?  Why do the Chubb impersonation?   For the umpteenth time, I don't like my QB's running with the ball.  They're too stupid to realize that THEY CAN'T GET HURT!.   The team is fucked without them!  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

The BIGGER question is why is Stefanski still calling our plays?  Our defense felt like they ran a 10 k in that 1st quarter with the complete lack of time of possession the horrible play calling led to.  So where did that leave us and the home crowd?  It left everyone feeling like Baltimore now owns the Ravens and the Browns.  

Stefanski isn't calling plays. Depodesta is. Why is this concept so hard for Browns fans to grasp? Depodesta isn't he head coach.

[gumby73]

15 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Stefanski isn't calling plays. Depodesta is. Why is this concept so hard for Browns fans to grasp? Depodesta isn't he head coach.

Even the Rams HC Sean McVay, admittedly hates walking into a Friday anal dept meeting weekly..

most 32 coaches, talk this same 'games played/called outcome percentages', BS 💩, when asked in press conference's on this same subject 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/kevin-stefanski-refutes-report-that-he-ll-have-to-hand-over-plans-to-analytics-d

We do know Stef's holding a play call sheet in his hands for now......... his job, his choice?

 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Even the Rams HC Sean McVay, admittedly hates walking into a Friday anal dept meeting weekly..

most 32 coaches, talk this same 'games played/called outcome percentages', BS 💩, when asked in press conference's on this same subject 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/kevin-stefanski-refutes-report-that-he-ll-have-to-hand-over-plans-to-analytics-d

We do know Stef's holding a play call sheet in his hands for now......... his job, his choice?

 

I think he is a weak Cahunnt

His play call sheet was given to him by Depodesta. Depodesta is in his headphones the entire time.

 

Fuck Haslam, fuck Depodesta and Fuck Stefanski

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

 

 

 

[Neo]

Is it me, or am I the only one noticing the Steelers and Ravens physically beat us up? And it doesn't seem like they are dishing it back. This team needs to grow a backbone and go out there and destroy some motherfuckers. 

[Westside Steve]

11 hours ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

DTR looked like a crackhead, both figuratively and literally. Stefanski doesn't know how to call non-Nick Chubb plays 

I don't really blame the kid for having a bad outing his first game in the NFL against one of the better defenses. It's not like our defense would have performed up to the reputation even with a healthy Watson. But if we are calling plays it require him to take off and run this is what we get. If it's a rotator cuff time to get used to DTR.

WSS

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I think he is a weak Cahunnt

His play call sheet was given to him by Depodesta. Depodesta is in his headphones the entire time.

 

Fuck Haslam, fuck Depodesta and Fuck Stefanski

 

 

 

 

 

AGREED!  They're all intertwined and the reason for this annual dumpster fire this early on in the year.   It's like a regularly scheduled alarm clock.  

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Even the Rams HC Sean McVay, admittedly hates walking into a Friday anal dept meeting weekly..

most 32 coaches, talk this same 'games played/called outcome percentages', BS 💩, when asked in press conference's on this same subject 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/kevin-stefanski-refutes-report-that-he-ll-have-to-hand-over-plans-to-analytics-d

We do know Stef's holding a play call sheet in his hands for now......... his job, his choice?

 

I'm at the point where I don't care WHO we give the credit to for the bad playcalling; because it won't end as long as we have the worst owner in the NFL. I don't care if he opens his wallet and has no idea what he's spending his money on like Randy Lerner did.  That did what for us then and now?   

The DESIGN of this offense is a joke. It's not sound and REAL defenses will exploit it easily as we've seen repeatedly. Now you guys know why I wasn't doing cartwheels and backward flips Elijah Moore that played himself out of the Jets starting lineup last year.  The names keep changing but the results don't.

[gumby73]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

  The DESIGN of this offense is a joke. It's not sound and REAL defenses will exploit it easily as we've seen repeatedly. 

   The names keep changing but the results don't.

It's not like good coaches like Harbaugh & Tomlin can't figured out Stef's offensive system by now.. It still comes down to players executing & it's not NFL physical enough against those 2 teams.

Even Jim Schwartz thru some questionable wide gaping (DT) fronts that invited out physical'd running results.

DTR... DeShaun Kizer won a starting job on 1 preseason deep TD pass against 2's & 3's.. We saw all we needed to see of DTR playing against the birds 1's..👀 

[BernieSuperBowl2]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I don't really blame the kid for having a bad outing his first game in the NFL against one of the better defenses. It's not like our defense would have performed up to the reputation even with a healthy Watson. But if we are calling plays it require him to take off and run this is what we get. If it's a rotator cuff time to get used to DTR.

WSS

There are no excuses in the NFL. Stefanski didn't do DTR any favors, but most of his throws weren't even in the same zip code as the receiver. 

[calfoxwc]

I think the Browns would have lost this game regardless of the qb - DTR had a terrible day, sure.

DTR would have won last week's game. The stinking ratbirds are just that good on defense, in the secondary.... and I said this about the game upcoming -

"Jackson scrambling for points seems to be the deciding factor.".... and there he still went and did it.

Yes, Jackson surprised me with a few nice throws he wouldn't have made before in his career. But his athleticism seems to be off the charts.

and Andrews -Jackson's saving grace when the heat is on. Like Kelsey to Mahommes, like Gronk to Brady.....

     Browns need a very smart, great hc.

[bbedward]

20 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

If is wasn't for bad luck.......

Why didn't we keep Brissett?

Brissett contract was up and he wanted to compete for a starting job, which he had a chance at for the commanders.

Trading Dobbs for a 5th is the questionable decision in hindsight. They must have had a lot of faith in DTR

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, gumby73 said:

It's not like good coaches like Harbaugh & Tomlin can't figured out Stef's offensive system by now.. It still comes down to players executing & it's not NFL physical enough against those 2 teams.

Even Jim Schwartz thru some questionable wide gaping (DT) fronts that invited out physical'd running results.

DTR... DeShaun Kizer won a starting job on 1 preseason deep TD pass against 2's & 3's.. We saw all we needed to see of DTR playing against the birds 1's..👀 

The offensive system or the just wing-it, fling-it and hope?   The defense showed up to play very early on; and the home crowd was enjoying it.  However, how long were they getting to rest after they stopped Baltimore?  By the time they intercepted DTR the 1st time, our defense looked gas'd like the big fellers started looking/feeling like they had the type of dead legs you'd see on someone that just ran a 10k.  Baltimore's D remained well rested.  They had a game fitting what they're good at.  Consequently, the execution looked easy after they tired out the strength of our team (Defense).  

While I like your point about execution, at what point do we lose the players' buy-in to the compatibility of it all?  Asking a rookie QB (that has had very little reps throwing to the starting receivers/TEs and situational role receivers) to throw the ball 36 times where chemistry probably hasn't even been establish on the practice field yet seems overwhelming for a very 1st NFL start at QB.  Baltimore's D remained well rested.  They had a patient game plan fitting what they're good at.  Consequently, the execution looked easy after they tired out the strength of our team (Defense).  Legs get tired there when the time of possession on offense isn't up to snuff.

While I agree with your comment in bold, did Watson look that much better against Pittsburgh?  They scored 2 TDs on our offense.    In the game thread, I said it way more than once RUN the ball.  That one nice run Ford had that got called back when Cooper held a DB (he didn't need to) - they never went back to it.  

[nickers]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

It's not like good coaches like Harbaugh & Tomlin can't figured out Stef's offensive system by now.. It still comes down to players executing & it's not NFL physical enough against those 2 teams.

Even Jim Schwartz thru some questionable wide gaping (DT) fronts that invited out physical'd running results.

DTR... DeShaun Kizer won a starting job on 1 preseason deep TD pass against 2's & 3's.. We saw all we needed to see of DTR playing against the birds 1's..👀 

I call DTR "Dont throw!, Run!"

 

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, nickers said:

I call DTR "Dont throw!, Run!"

 

😆 It would have been nice to ask you - how was the game Nicks?  Unfortunately we all watched it and swore in languages that don't even exist yet so... Did you finally stop puking?

[nickers]

14 minutes ago, Flugel said:

😆 It would have been nice to ask you - how was the game Nicks?  Unfortunately we all watched it and swore in languages that don't even exist yet so... Did you finally stop puking?

Tom... I enjoyed being with my Mother,Siblings and other family members... It was great being wit them.. The game... Heh abysmal as it was... I refuse to let that spoil the day... Other wise.. Those GODDD#$%^**^%$#@&!!!!!!!!!!!! Mother$%&((&%$##^!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

 I said it way more than once RUN the ball.  That one nice run Ford had that got called back when Cooper held a DB (he didn't need to) - they never went back to it.  

That’s been a disturbing trend with Kev, for whatever reason the bastard hates running the ball.

I watched rookie QB and the Texans beat the Steelers yesterday with slants, screens, and gashed the Stoolers running the ball.

Somehow I get the feeling Kev needs to take notes.

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Stefanski isn't calling plays. Depodesta is. Why is this concept so hard for Browns fans to grasp? Depodesta isn't he head coach.

For a guy that got kicked out of Cub Scouts for eating too many Brownies (and I'm not just talking about chocolate snacks here) - your sniffer's got you hunting again.

I think the Paralysis by Over-analysis Committee needs to go.  It's like we have 2 Wiley Coyotes in charge of how to get the game and go for the kill.  I can't even watch the replays...

[Flugel]

7 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

That’s been a disturbing trend with Kev, for whatever reason the bastard hates running the ball.

I watched rookie QB and the Texans beat the Steelers yesterday with slants, screens, and gashed the Stoolers running the ball.

Somehow I get the feeling Kev needs to take notes.

👍 🍻 

[tiamat63]

5 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 

Even Jim Schwartz thru some questionable wide gaping (DT) fronts that invited out physical'd running results.

 

 The biggest issue wasn't so much the front on the Dline itself, but when we went to gap exchange or our LB"s had to scrape against the read.   They missed quite a few tackles early.   Once that got cleaned up, defense started to settle in after that body shock of a 2nd qtr.  

 

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I think the Browns would have lost this game regardless of the qb - DTR had a terrible day, sure.

 

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

DTR would have won last week's game.

At any point, just don't say dumb shit like this.       You're either oblivious to how good the Titans DEF can be, or just... I don't know - maybe it's autism.

 

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

The offensive system or the just wing-it, fling-it and hope?  

 

 A lot of what was done yesterday was to combat the fact that BLT showed up in quarters instead of their usual 3 deep looks.   Something I didn't expect.   They really took a lot of the vertical stuff and left Njoku and the RB's room to roam, even against RoQuan.   Sadly, DTR went to these options way late, time and time again.   Speaking of, I was getting Dairy Queen when you called, I'll get back to you later bubs.  

 The Jets passed early and often against the Chiefs last night.  For many, that's against 'conventional' wisdom with a struggling QB.   But it worked for them.    Granted, Zach Wilson isn't a rookie, but he isn't good either.   Chiefs ended up blitzing and man coveraged themselves into real trouble and are lucky to have won that game last night.   The best way to help a young QB, is to keep him out of traditional passing situations.   Especially when we consider the trouble our Oline is facing right now.  Trouble that now includes Teller being a liability in straight drop pass pro.  Whatever grades he has been getting for the positive, have been offset by that right there.   

 

33 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

That’s been a disturbing trend with Kev, for whatever reason the bastard hates running the ball.

 Browns have been top 5 every year except one, in NFL rushing attempts under Stef.    The two biggest names above us are teams that use their QB's as the +1 in the running game as the great equalizer.   And we currently sit at 5th in rushing attempts now as well.  

So.....  yeah.    Hating the run would be having Austin Eckler and Justin Jackson, but only being 28th in rushing attempts.     

 

33 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I watched rookie QB and the Texans beat the Steelers yesterday with slants, screens, and gashed the Stoolers running the ball.

 

 

 Stroud is currently 3rd in YPA/passing.   Yesterday he was just over a 50% clip.   Apart from the backside RPO to Nico on the TD, most of what the Texans did was incredibly similar to what the Niners did and what the Browns tried to do, I presume you saw how many empty sets they ran?  They even hit a stick/out early that DIDN"T go for a pick six.  Crazy shit, huh?       The differences between those 3 teams? - Check pressure rates allowed by the Oline.    *hint, Browns are leading in a not-good way*.     Hell, the Texans passed as much as they ran on 1st and 3rd yesterday.  Wasn't like it was just "DERP, RUN".      Watt was taken care of just enough to not fuck their offensive game plan.  

 

 

 

 NOTHING with this team has changed since week 1 for the positive.   The Oline has become worse because of injury and diminished play from Teller.  The RB situation is what it is because Chubb is out, and we just so happened to start a raw, rookie 5th round QB on top of it.    Anybody expecting anything less than a physical grind of a loss was fooling themselves.  I get we wanted to 'look' competitive, and we've seen young QB's have success against the Browns before, but that's generally in incredibly favorable situations.  Such as having the worst DL in the NFL or having an offense that just hands the ball right back over.   

 What's on the coaches has continued to be on the coaches - finding higher percentage throws faster against defenses they're seeing.  Not being too over-reliant or under-reliant on the screen game.  Or worse, as we saw yesterday from Roquan Smith, going for the screen game on later downs when A) he's one of the best in the NFL at eaing them alive and b) it's sort of expected.    That I hold against Stef.  The screen game could have been more prominent on the early downs, but when that is so wrapped up in setting up success passing games off simple concepts and the timing, it's difficult to execute those screens when the routine stuff is a problem.  

 

 When the Browns win it's  *coaches did good*   when the Browns lose it's *FIRE EVERYBODY*.   This place, and the bulk of the posters here, are no different than anywhere else.  

 

Let me make clear though, that's not a current endorsement of Stef, Musgrave and Van Pelt.  There are things they can, and I hope WILL, be doing much better.

edit:  Money where my mouth was - took Browns team UNDER at 18.5 points yesterday.    Let's be practical here.   But I'm warning all of you, BYE week or not, I'm struggling to see any scenario where this team beats San Fran.   They're healthy and right now the best team in the NFL.   Just hoping for no further personnel losses and an offense that continues to build and show some progression under Watson.    Right now, focus on the AFCN and securing a wild card spot.  Everything else is a cherry on top.  The offensive roster currently isn't ready to contend.  

 

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 The biggest issue wasn't so much the front on the Dline itself, but when we went to gap exchange or our LB"s had to scrape against the read.   They missed quite a few tackles early.   Once that got cleaned up, defense started to settle in after that body shock of a 2nd qtr.  

 

 

At any point, just don't say dumb shit like this.       You're either oblivious to how good the Titans DEF can be, or just... I don't know - maybe it's autism.

 

 

 A lot of what was done yesterday was to combat the fact that BLT showed up in quarters instead of their usual 3 deep looks.   Something I didn't expect.   They really took a lot of the vertical stuff and left Njoku and the RB's room to roam, even against RoQuan.   Sadly, DTR went to these options way late, time and time again.   Speaking of, I was getting Dairy Queen when you called, I'll get back to you later bubs.  

 The Jets passed early and often against the Chiefs last night.  For many, that's against 'conventional' wisdom with a struggling QB.   But it worked for them.    Granted, Zach Wilson isn't a rookie, but he isn't good either.   Chiefs ended up blitzing and man coveraged themselves into real trouble and are lucky to have won that game last night.   The best way to help a young QB, is to keep him out of traditional passing situations.   Especially when we consider the trouble our Oline is facing right now.  Trouble that now includes Teller being a liability in straight drop pass pro.  Whatever grades he has been getting for the positive, have been offset by that right there.   

 

 Browns have been top 5 every year except one, in NFL rushing attempts under Stef.    The two biggest names above us are teams that use their QB's as the +1 in the running game as the great equalizer.   And we currently sit at 5th in rushing attempts now as well.  

So.....  yeah.    Hating the run would be having Austin Eckler and Justin Jackson, but only being 28th in rushing attempts.     

 

 

 Stroud is currently 3rd in YPA/passing.   Yesterday he was just over a 50% clip.   Apart from the backside RPO to Nico on the TD, most of what the Texans did was incredibly similar to what the Niners did and what the Browns tried to do, I presume you saw how many empty sets they ran?  They even hit a stick/out early that DIDN"T go for a pick six.  Crazy shit, huh?       The differences between those 3 teams? - Check pressure rates allowed by the Oline.    *hint, Browns are leading in a not-good way*.     Hell, the Texans passed as much as they ran on 1st and 3rd yesterday.  Wasn't like it was just "DERP, RUN".      Watt was taken care of just enough to not fuck their offensive game plan.  

 

 

 

 NOTHING with this team has changed since week 1 for the positive.   The Oline has become worse because of injury and diminished play from Teller.  The RB situation is what it is because Chubb is out, and we just so happened to start a raw, rookie 5th round QB on top of it.    Anybody expecting anything less than a physical grind of a loss was fooling themselves.  I get we wanted to 'look' competitive, and we've seen young QB's have success against the Browns before, but that's generally in incredibly favorable situations.  Such as having the worst DL in the NFL or having an offense that just hands the ball right back over.   

 What's on the coaches has continued to be on the coaches - finding higher percentage throws faster against defenses they're seeing.  Not being too over-reliant or under-reliant on the screen game.  Or worse, as we saw yesterday from Roquan Smith, going for the screen game on later downs when A) he's one of the best in the NFL at eaing them alive and b) it's sort of expected.    That I hold against Stef.  The screen game could have been more prominent on the early downs, but when that is so wrapped up in setting up success passing games off simple concepts and the timing, it's difficult to execute those screens when the routine stuff is a problem.  

 

 When the Browns win it's  *coaches did good*   when the Browns lose it's *FIRE EVERYBODY*.   This place, and the bulk of the posters here, are no different than anywhere else.  

 

Let me make clear though, that's not a current endorsement of Stef, Musgrave and Van Pelt.  There are things they can, and I hope WILL, be doing much better.

edit:  Money where my mouth was - took Browns team UNDER at 18.5 points yesterday.    Let's be practical here.   But I'm warning all of you, BYE week or not, I'm struggling to see any scenario where this team beats San Fran.   They're healthy and right now the best team in the NFL.   Just hoping for no further personnel losses and an offense that continues to build and show some progression under Watson.    Right now, focus on the AFCN and securing a wild card spot.  Everything else is a cherry on top.  The offensive roster currently isn't ready to contend.  

 

God love ya Tia for all the in depth analysis, but I’m a bottom line type of guy.

I’m specifically calling out the play calling vs the Stoolers.

Let’s look at those game stats:

 

Why in the hell would you have Watson drop back and pass forty times, when we were running all over them?

[syd]

 A day after getting blown out 28-3 by the Ravens at home, much of the focus was on how the Browns handled Deshaun Watson’s shoulder injury leading up to the game.

Here’s our top Brownie Bites from Monday as they head into the bye week.

The handling of Watson’s shoulder injury over the last week raised questions about the Browns decision making processes leading up to the game. “He knows his body,” Stefanski said Monday. “He's played through serious pain before. Very, very serious injuries. It wasn't a matter of pain tolerance or anything. He just did not feel like he had his full faculties.” According to Stefanski there is no structural problems with Watson’s right shoulder, so that’s good news. The Browns failed in how they handled Baker Mayfield’s injury in 2021. Mayfield said he could and wanted to play but he struggled the remainder of the season and it led to a divorce. Last week the Browns kept listening to Watson tell them he was okay and ready to play despite being unable to throw during practice. Then came Sunday morning and he still couldn’t throw a football. “He didn't throw all week and we had to get to the game and that was the first time he was going to throw to see ultimately how he felt, if he felt like he could drive a throw, those type of things,” Stefanski said. “So he was confident in it. Like I told you guys, he's disappointed but I wouldn't make it any more than that.” Stefanski did not change the gameplan to accommodate rookie Dorian Thompson-Robinson, who appeared ill-equipped to handle the backup role that saw him complete 19 of 36 passes for 121 yards with three interceptions, Stefanski dismissed the notion that better planning for Thompson-Robinson to start would’ve yielded better results. “What happened yesterday was not an issue of not knowing if DTR was going to play,” Stefanski said. “That was not it at all. We just have to coach better and play better.”