Watson's shoulder

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I needed it…we are starting PJ Walker

I hear ya.  We need to get our minds off this hot mess.

[jiggins7919]

2 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I hear ya.  We need to get our minds off this hot mess.

Why haven't we traded for another qb? There has to be something we can do, right? Brissett ain't playing...can we bring him back? Watching PJ play against the 49's sounds like as much fun as getting mule kicked in the nuts over and over while watching "The Drive" on ESPN in an endless loop. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Medical science has come a long way with sports injuries, knee injuries that used to be career-enders can now cleaned up and have the player back on the field in record time.

But rotator cuff injuries are still tricky. 

Baltimore used to have this magical tree bark that cured Triceps tendon tears (Ray Lewis) and Achilles Tendon Tears (T.Suggs) in just a few easy weeks.  Whatever happen to those steroids, I mean tree bark supplements.  Thomas Dolby sang a song about it all called "SCIENCE".  

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Why haven't we traded for another qb? There has to be something we can do, right? Brissett ain't playing...can we bring him back? Watching PJ play against the 49's sounds like as much fun as getting mule kicked in the nuts over and over while watching "The Drive" on ESPN in an endless loop. 

I wouldn't worry about it.  They're gonna put blind folds over his eyes to improve the accuracy.

[gumby73]

well written espn article, of the Old NFL QB Guard of injuries..

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/29808920/brees-rodgers-brady-roethlisberger-rivers-injury-histories-five-legendary-nfl-quarterbacks-295-weeks-injury-report

9-20-15. Drew Brees bruised his right throwing shoulder Rotator cuff. Brees returned in a week, not ramming into a goal line players helmet while doing so

An MRI confirmed that Brees did not suffer a serious shoulder injury. Revealed a bruised rotator cuff with no tear, league sources told ESPN Monday.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13712320/drew-brees-new-orleans-saints-questionable-shoulder-injury-not-serious

what I don't get is ? Do we/nfl staff a Nurse Ratchet or Kathy Bates, clearing QB's as suitable to play to drive media clicks ?  

         

Halloween month in Cleveland 🎃 ? we're off to a banging start ! 

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I’m still trying to figure out Stefanski, is he a HC that wants to be an OC?

Or is he an OC that pretends to be an HC?

Does anyone look at Alex VanPelt during the game and think he looks like a janitor waiting at the time clock for his shift to come to an end?

Not sure, but if I ever did my job like he has - I would completely understand my demotion to Broom Closet Coordinator.

I NEVER understood why an Assistant Coach suddenly getting his DREAM job of Head Coach would only want to control freak the offense to the extent a former QB and current OC Alex Van Pelt can only give input only after Paul Depodesta's Poindexters spewing Analytics overfeed have been heard and prioritized.  Again, the 1 and only time this team looked to Alex Van Pelt to call the plays at PITTSBURGH in the post season - the Browns scored 48 points.  Hoorta always intercepts that and Budweiser Frogs in a "yeah but" they picked off Roethlisberger 4 times and recovered a fumble in the end zone.  I said, our QB wasn't getting intercepted so he helped the Browns punctuate a lot of short fields with TDs.  3 TDs and 0 INTs in a playoff game AT PITTSBURGH doesn't suck on a night the Browns were up 48-29 under 2 minutes to go.  Yeah, Pitt got their TD and 2 point conversion with about 80 seconds left to bring their score up to make the game look a lot more competitive than it was all night.

I've see some old documentaries about Bill Parcells where he was up every one of his Coordinator's asses on game day especially the best DC in the game at the time Bill Belichick.  That's a HC.  Head Coaches can be bastards; but when it all plays out and your team wins because of it - you never stop cherishing your memories of what they did for you in the game you love.  

Stefanski?  Nobody REALLY knows why he was Depodesta's favorite candidate in 2 different Head Coach searches.  My guess is the criteria was he agreed to just focus on the offense and prioritize the input from the Poindexters with the situational percentages instead of looking at the film that provides the WHY behind each percentage.  Saying TJ Watt is talented and we need to block him doesn't assure me this franchise has ever looked at enough film of the guy showing the best ways to possibly do so.  It's almost like saying we have to limit the turnovers without working on the ball security fundamentals every day in practice.  I say such a thing when I saw Watson running with the ball away from his body in the arm that wasn't closest to the sideline.  Other guys like Njoku and Bryant have ball security issues as well.  

The last 2 years prior to upgrading the Coordinators for Special Teams and Defense - the Browns had repetitive issues with too many men on the field when teams were going to punt to us or on 3rd or 4th and 4 situations where the Browns gave opponents 1st downs instead of getting themselves off the field from the change of possession the defense worked hard to earn.  The same mistakes repeated no matter how many times Stefanski said we need to be more organized without putting this stuff in your practices.  Smart teams practice situational football (instead of studying statistical formulas like A2 + B2 = ABBA).

Anyway, sorry for the longwinded blow hard and the delay in responding to your post CD.  

[Neo]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:34 AM, Flugel said:

Hoffman was in so many movies

 

[Browns149]

Not good

[calfoxwc]

17 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Why haven't we traded for another qb? There has to be something we can do, right? Brissett ain't playing...can we bring him back? Watching PJ play against the 49's sounds like as much fun as getting mule kicked in the nuts over and over while watching "The Drive" on ESPN in an endless loop. 

Brissett starting now would be hope. But the niners and eagles are the only two unbeaten teams? Njoku won't be missed much, but Bitonio out...very bad. But Michael Dunn isn't any slouch, either.

The niners dline is.....

https://www.49ers.com/news/49ers-2023-roster-breakdown-defensive-line-bosa-hargrave-armstead-jackson-kinlaw

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

 

He was incredible!  Thanks Neo!   You can tell the Browns are doing what they always do best when we'd rather talk about Hoffman the weekend of a game...

[Neo]

19 minutes ago, Flugel said:

He was incredible!  Thanks Neo!   You can tell the Browns are doing what they always do best when we'd rather talk about Hoffman the weekend of a game...

Well, if you're a true Browns fan and football fan in general, you know what the chances are the Browns win a game against a team like the 49ers. The Browns have some work to do if they want to convince people they deserve otherwise. Still not totally convinced the culture has changed. And I think the "culture" change has to take place with the "fans" as well as the team. I get it with the Watson injury, I just don't think the anger is being channeled in the right place. It's easy to hate on the overpaid player especially if it's Watson rather than the people who overpaid him.

And why not Hoffman, that whole scene had me laughing my ass off😁

[Flugel]

56 minutes ago, Neo said:

Well, if you're a true Browns fan and football fan in general, you know what the chances are the Browns win a game against a team like the 49ers. The Browns have some work to do if they want to convince people they deserve otherwise. Still not totally convinced the culture has changed. And I think the "culture" change has to take place with the "fans" as well as the team. I get it with the Watson injury, I just don't think the anger is being channeled in the right place. It's easy to hate on the overpaid player especially if it's Watson rather than the people who overpaid him.

And why not Hoffman, that whole scene had me laughing my ass off😁

Me too man!

[nickers]

19 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Me too man!

I just want the Browns to show up tomorrow... Is that asking too much?

[Orion]

22 hours ago, Vambo said:

They're not going to play their 230 mil investment until he can throw pain free.  Well then, for 230 mil he can come in and run the ball.  He likes taking on tacklers.  

This has all the earmarks of another wasted season.....much like last season.  

[Canton Dawg]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

This has all the earmarks of another wasted season.....much like last season.  

Jimmah, isn’t getting much of a return on his investment.

[Dutch Oven]

I like how people on here are acting like lost, mediocre seasons are a new thing as a Browns fan. 😂

[Orion]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I like how people on here are acting like lost, mediocre seasons are a new thing as a Browns fan. 😂

Yeah...but it's different now.  We actually have a host of good players.  They just don't get to play because they're either suspended or injured.  This year it's Chubb, Conklin, Watson and now Bitonio.  In years past it didn't matter if our players were healthy or not.  They mostly all stunk.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Yeah...but it's different now.  We actually have a host of good players.  They just don't get to play because they're either suspended or injured.  This year it's Chubb, Conklin, Watson and now Bitonio.  In years past it didn't matter if our players were healthy or not.  They mostly all stunk.  

Is it?

We've had Chubb, Bitonio, Garrett, Ward, Teller, etc here for years now. The same people crying that we should have kept the last QB seem to forget that we had three of four "lost" seasons with him too. 2020 looks more and more like a complete aberration. 

Do you ever just shrug your shoulders and think that it doesn't matter what is done, who is brought in, that this team is just destined to be a non-factor for eternity? I do, at times. 

I honestly feel like some Steelers fan with an expertise in voodoo put a curse on this team the evening after the Browns destroyed the Steelers 51-0 to open the 1989 season. It would explain sooooo much. Think about the direction of both teams ever since that game. 😄 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I like how people on here are acting like lost, mediocre seasons are a new thing as a Browns fan. 😂

In retrospect, we had some horrendous rosters from 2000-2019.  Hell I knew some of those teams were bad when the season started.  And Most of those years a mediocre season was a win.   Aside from maybe 2021, I believe this is the best roster we’ve had - the concerning part our QB isn’t showing Top 8 form which he once had and we are probably going to be weaker overall next season when the cap restrictions come into play and we have to make tough choices (who stays and who goes).

I held this year to be if not now than when.
 

 Maybe we find the next Brock Purdy in the 7th round and then Next Shanahan when the inevitable happens with our HC…even then we still have the toxic owner….sounds like I’m talking myself into mediocrity. 

 

[Orion]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I honestly feel like some Steelers fan with an expertise in voodoo put a curse on this team the evening after the Browns destroyed the Steelers 51-0 to open the 1989 season. It would explain sooooo much. Think about the direction of both teams ever since that game. 😄 

Voo-doo people eh?   (me and a couple buddies)

 

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I like how people on here are acting like lost, mediocre seasons are a new thing as a Browns fan. 😂

The good news is I'm laughing a little harder than I'm bellyaching thanks to the outrageous but never boring sense of humor in here.  To your point, we should be a lot better at this as fans considering all the education and experience we've had with how to sink your Titanic (I mean franchise) into Lake Erie.  If the Cleveland Browns ever hold a seminar in how to hire Management positions - RUN!

Other than all that - what's the FREAKIN problem folks?   This game today ain't gonna be pretty but it might be Purdy... Having said that, all pleasant surprises are definitely welcome...

[Flugel]

24 minutes ago, Orion said:

Voo-doo people eh?   (me and a couple buddies)

 

Not bad Orion!  You guys have an Atlanta Rhythm Section vibe to you with half the band size...

[Browns149]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Is it?

We've had Chubb, Bitonio, Garrett, Ward, Teller, etc here for years now. The same people crying that we should have kept the last QB seem to forget that we had three of four "lost" seasons with him too. 2020 looks more and more like a complete aberration. 

Do you ever just shrug your shoulders and think that it doesn't matter what is done, who is brought in, that this team is just destined to be a non-factor for eternity? I do, at times. 

I honestly feel like some Steelers fan with an expertise in voodoo put a curse on this team the evening after the Browns destroyed the Steelers 51-0 to open the 1989 season. It would explain sooooo much. Think about the direction of both teams ever since that game. 😄 

I agree, 2020 was a COVID aberration 

It gets me that for the past 4 years or so, people have been  saying it’s the most talented team we’ve had since 1999. 

And they STILL can’t win. Maybe, just maybe, it’s the coach and or owner

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

To your point, we should be a lot better at this as fans considering all the education and experience we've had with how to sink your Titanic (I mean franchise) into Lake Erie.  If the Cleveland Browns ever hold a seminar in how to hire Management positions - RUN!

Oh no, in fact do the opposite, go to the seminar and do what George did. 😁

 

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Is it?

We've had Chubb, Bitonio, Garrett, Ward, Teller, etc here for years now. The same people crying that we should have kept the last QB seem to forget that we had three of four "lost" seasons with him too. 2020 looks more and more like a complete aberration. 

Do you ever just shrug your shoulders and think that it doesn't matter what is done, who is brought in, that this team is just destined to be a non-factor for eternity? I do, at times. 

I honestly feel like some Steelers fan with an expertise in voodoo put a curse on this team the evening after the Browns destroyed the Steelers 51-0 to open the 1989 season. It would explain sooooo much. Think about the direction of both teams ever since that game. 😄 

I went from REALLY wanting us to draft Baker to eventually aligning myself with the thinking/reality the Browns needed to upgrade to an elite QB (not that they grow on trees).  I don't regret that change.  Having said that, I think some of the criticism (beyond his immaturity as a Team Leader) has been unfair.  I'll never agree with anyone who thinks he was awful here.  He went to a Jimmy Haslam business that was a combined 1-31 in the 2016 and 2017 seasons.  In his rookie year, the team began just as winless going 0-1-1 and losing 14-0 to the Jets until the 1st time he got the chance to play.  He erased the 2nd quarter deficit to the Jets and led the team to an easy win.  All of the same teammates that were struggling well into the 2nd quarter - inexplicably started playing so much better the second he took the field.  The team went 7-7 in the games he played.  In the process, he broke a rookie TD passes record with 27 despite only playing in 13.5 games. The next year, we lost both starting tackle vrs TN in the opener the year their TE called the Browns the "Paper Champions".  1 or weeks later, the Browns lost one of the backup starters at Tackle.  Quick question: has anything changed at OT today?  Conklin with a HUGE contract is hurt again.  Jed Wills continues to rank near the very bottom of NFL Left Tackles according to PFF while replays show us he couldn't even start in Canada.  

Let's pretend for 1 second that the Browns drafted Josh Allen by accident I want a show of hands at who REALLY believe Jimmy Haslam's business had the right coaches in place to develop the lad the way Buffalo did it.  Who's got the gonads?  Week 1 against the Bengals the Browns were running the option with a QB that isn't 6'5" 240lbs like Josh Allen.  He ended up getting hurt running the ball.  What was this wonderful offense that the Browns were going to have in place that would fit Watson's skillset like a glove?  Ready?  There wasn't one designed.  It's been wing it + fling it + fuck it. 

Under this FO & Owner - last year we entered the season without talent at the Defense Tackles spot which of course put all our 1st string LBers on IR.  THIS YEAR, we have the pleasure of watching an offense without a playbook/offensive design with very weak effort and efficiency at the Offensive Tackle positions.  Doesn't that mean Jed Wills was a horrible pick when his best year was his rookie season?  Spare me the excuses folks if Baker gets 0.

Be honest, are we the much better team we thought we be just by simply upgrading the skillset to Watson?   I gave you the reasons why above.  The Browns made ZERO plans to accommodate him unless you want to tell me how smart it was to extend the always injured Jack Conklin while Jed Wills is your plan at the blindside tackle position.  Smart business plan?  Oft-injured players don't help a team in desperate need of continuity.

So, the Browns record when Baker arrived after the Browns went 1-31 in 2016 and 2017 is 32-32-1.  My take is I appreciated that he and Jarvis Landry CPR'd a pulse back into the franchise as a rookie.  I also like his TD to INT ratio of 26:8 in the playoff year 2020.  Not elite but I dare say good in a place that has longed for good since Jimmy took over.  Kyle Shanahan was the best OC in the Haslam era but the FO interfered with his control back when they broke a rule calling down to the sideline during a game.  You don't say!   In essence, while it might look like QBs have been a symptom of the problem here - the cancer killing this franchise is Front Office working under an owner without balls. 

The Browns were 7-10 last year where the back-up was 4-7 and Watson was 3-3. This year doesn't look any more promising than last year but it's important to notice WHY.  The same people in charge seem to be better at starting dumpster fires than re-establishing a long lost winning tradition. 

TEAM	SEASON	REC
Cleveland Browns	2018	7-8-1
Cleveland Browns	2019	6-10
Cleveland Browns	2020	11-5
Cleveland Browns	2021	8-9

[jiggins7919]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

Having said that, all pleasant surprises are definitely welcome.

I'll take a pleasant surprise! PJ Walker throws for 300 with 3 tds! Make it so! 

[Dutch Oven]

22 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I went from REALLY wanting us to draft Baker to eventually aligning myself with the thinking/reality the Browns needed to upgrade to an elite QB (not that they grow on trees).  I don't regret that change.  Having said that, I think some of the criticism (beyond his immaturity as a Team Leader) has been unfair.  I'll never agree with anyone who thinks he was awful here.  He went to a Jimmy Haslam business that was a combined 1-31 in the 2016 and 2017 seasons.  In his rookie year, the team began just as winless going 0-1-1 and losing 14-0 to the Jets until the 1st time he got the chance to play.  He erased the 2nd quarter deficit to the Jets and led the team to an easy win.  All of the same teammates that were struggling well into the 2nd quarter - inexplicably started playing so much better the second he took the field.  The team went 7-7 in the games he played.  In the process, he broke a rookie TD passes record with 27 despite only playing in 13.5 games. The next year, we lost both starting tackle vrs TN in the opener the year their TE called the Browns the "Paper Champions".  1 or weeks later, the Browns lost one of the backup starters at Tackle.  Quick question: has anything changed at OT today?  Conklin with a HUGE contract is hurt again.  Jed Wills continues to rank near the very bottom of NFL Left Tackles according to PFF while replays show us he couldn't even start in Canada.  

Let's pretend for 1 second that the Browns drafted Josh Allen by accident I want a show of hands at who REALLY believe Jimmy Haslam's business had the right coaches in place to develop the lad the way Buffalo did it.  Who's got the gonads?  Week 1 against the Bengals the Browns were running the option with a QB that isn't 6'5" 240lbs like Josh Allen.  He ended up getting hurt running the ball.  What was this wonderful offense that the Browns were going to have in place that would fit Watson's skillset like a glove?  Ready?  There wasn't one designed.  It's been wing it + fling it + fuck it. 

Under this FO & Owner - last year we entered the season without talent at the Defense Tackles spot which of course put all our 1st string LBers on IR.  THIS YEAR, we have the pleasure of watching an offense without a playbook/offensive design with very weak effort and efficiency at the Offensive Tackle positions.  Doesn't that mean Jed Wills was a horrible pick when his best year was his rookie season?  Spare me the excuses folks if Baker gets 0.

Be honest, are we the much better team we thought we be just by simply upgrading the skillset to Watson?   I gave you the reasons why above.  The Browns made ZERO plans to accommodate him unless you want to tell me how smart it was to extend the always injured Jack Conklin while Jed Wills is your plan at the blindside tackle position.  Smart business plan?  Oft-injured players don't help a team in desperate need of continuity.

So, the Browns record when Baker arrived after the Browns went 1-31 in 2016 and 2017 is 32-32-1.  My take is I appreciated that he and Jarvis Landry CPR'd a pulse back into the franchise as a rookie.  I also like his TD to INT ratio of 26:8 in the playoff year 2020.  Not elite but I dare say good in a place that has longed for good since Jimmy took over.  Kyle Shanahan was the best OC in the Haslam era but the FO interfered with his control back when they broke a rule calling down to the sideline during a game.  You don't say!   In essence, while it might look like QBs have been a symptom of the problem here - the cancer killing this franchise is Front Office working under an owner without balls. 

The Browns were 7-10 last year where the back-up was 4-7 and Watson was 3-3. This year doesn't look any more promising than last year but it's important to notice WHY.  The same people in charge seem to be better at starting dumpster fires than re-establishing a long lost winning tradition. 

TEAM	SEASON	REC
Cleveland Browns	2018	7-8-1
Cleveland Browns	2019	6-10
Cleveland Browns	2020	11-5
Cleveland Browns	2021	8-9

No offense Flugs, but I've said everything I ever want to say about the former starting QB of the Browns too many times to mention. 

I also fully expect that this will be Stefanski's last season as head coach... not sure about the front office though. You would think there would be a complete tear down, but who knows with the Haslams. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

No offense Flugs, but I've said everything I ever want to say about the former starting QB of the Browns too many times to mention. 

I also fully expect that this will be Stefanski's last season as head coach... not sure about the front office though. You would think there would be a complete tear down, but who knows with the Haslams. 

LOL!  I know, I figured I needed a human sized hamster wheel that I could run some of my football anxieties out on today - so thank you for that.  I'm with you and everyone on wanting an elite QB.  There's a lot of guys (including you) that have at least complimented the good stuff he did.  Your post just gave me the opportunity to point out that state of the QB position in Cleveland remains in pass interference from the Front Office & Head Coach.  It ain't changing until the Owner has the balls to fired the deadly tandem of Stefanski and Depodesta.  I don't even want to be right about this; but I am.  Okay, I just fabricated - I DO want to be right...

[Flugel]

20 hours ago, nickers said:

I just want the Browns to show up tomorrow... Is that asking too much?

Thatta boy!  They'll show up for a little while.  They also have a pretty good chance of winning the coin toss. 

[Browns149]

5 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thatta boy!  They'll show up for a little while.  They also have a pretty good chance of winning the coin toss. 

And then they will defer.