Watson's shoulder

[SdBacker80]

20 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Even the Rams HC Sean McVay, admittedly hates walking into a Friday anal dept meeting weekly..

most 32 coaches, talk this same 'games played/called outcome percentages', BS 💩, when asked in press conference's on this same subject 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/kevin-stefanski-refutes-report-that-he-ll-have-to-hand-over-plans-to-analytics-d

We do know Stef's holding a play call sheet in his hands for now......... his job, his choice?

 

we aren’t the only ones prone to weird decisions… 

I watched Brandon Staley do the analytic thing yesterday afternoon late fourth quarter.  He went for it from his own 40 (his team was up by a score late in the game) he called the Eagles Bush Push or Flock of Bird $hit whatever they call it (sorry not an Iggles fan) 
 

I wonder if analytics considered the Chargers had a backup center in the game and a QB with a heavily banged non throwing hand - he had visible signs of difficulty taking snaps. 
 

I wonder if Tony or Mary Kay can ask the question if the analytics are modified when personnel changes.  Like if the tackle is new and the other tackle is struggling with an injury is the sensible thing throwing 40 passes with most of them deep dropbacks? 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

God love ya Tia for all the in depth analysis, but I’m a bottom line type of guy.

I’m specifically calling out the play calling vs the Stoolers.

Let’s look at those game stats:

 

Why in the hell would you have Watson drop back and pass forty times, when we were running all over them?

The final drop-back was the fumble for a TD.  In short, the Browns didn't know the enemy and they knew themselves even less. I'm not impressed with this offense.  We're gonna play SF next that has a very organized offense where there's a route receiving tree for those lining up on their perimeter.  The reason that's important is because their offense is predicated on precision, timing, and chemistry. The Browns offense is governed by confusion and who are we.  While we're deciding this Cleveland QBs have been playing Santa Claus to Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

Maybe this modern game is passing me by. I don't get the sense that teams with offensive coaches that worked with Kyle Shanahan under his dad Mike Shanahan (ie: Sean McVay)or later just under Kyle (Mike McDaniel and Matt LaFleur) have the big time difficulty teaching and orchestrating the offense.  QB Brock Purdy was the very last player drafted in 2022 out of Iowa State.  As a rookie QB Purdy replaced injured starter Jimmy Garoppolo and SF won that game as well as the 8 games Purdy started thereafter.  He actually accomplished this quickly enough to be THE guy ahead of SF's previous 3rd overall pick Trey Lance.  He got them all the way to the NFC Championship. 

Here the Browns are on offense trying to figure out who they are and where they want to go with things.  How about a philosophy to -set the foundation.  The Browns are better at running the ball instead of passing it.  Foundation set.  Now, COMMIT to it , KICKASS and watch playaction passes work once you do so.

The window is slamming down on Stefanski before he loses the team whether it's him orchestrating or Front Office Depo overstepping his bounds like our FO did back when they pissed off Kyle Shanahan when he was our OC.

Bottom line:  The Offensive Coach/Coaches in charge of the design of this offense, the game planning and the play-calling is failing.  How many years do we need to keep excusing the guy in charge of the offense. Schwartz just got here and they're so much further along.  Our STs Coordinator just started and that's improved.  When you have the right guy in charge - you improve.  When you don't?  Here we are complaining about the offense again.  You don't say...

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Bottom line:  The Offensive Coach/Coaches in charge of the design of this offense, the game planning and the play-calling is failing.  How many years do we need to keep excusing the guy in charge of the offense. Schwartz just got here and they're so much further along.  Our STs Coordinator just started and that's improved.  When you have the right guy in charge - you improve.  When you don't?  Here we are complaining about the offense again.  You don't say...

 

I'm more concerned that the Steelers and Ravens exposed the Browns for being such a Charmin' soft team. 

I could almost understand this team being a finesse team if they were a really intelligent team, but they show over and over that they aren't a smart team either. 

[SdBacker80]

28 minutes ago, Flugel said:

The final drop-back was the fumble for a TD.  In short, the Browns didn't know the enemy and they knew themselves even less. I'm not impressed with this offense.  We're gonna play SF next that has a very organized offense where there's a route receiving tree for those lining up on their perimeter.  The reason that's important is because their offense is predicated on precision, timing, and chemistry. The Browns offense is governed by confusion and who are we.  While we're deciding this Cleveland QBs have been playing Santa Claus to Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

Maybe this modern game is passing me by. I don't get the sense that teams with offensive coaches that worked with Kyle Shanahan under his dad Mike Shanahan (ie: Sean McVay)or later just under Kyle (Mike McDaniel and Matt LaFleur) have the big time difficulty teaching and orchestrating the offense.  QB Brock Purdy was the very last player drafted in 2022 out of Iowa State.  As a rookie QB Purdy replaced injured starter Jimmy Garoppolo and SF won that game as well as the 8 games Purdy started thereafter.  He actually accomplished this quickly enough to be THE guy ahead of SF's previous 3rd overall pick Trey Lance.  He got them all the way to the NFC Championship. 

Here the Browns are on offense trying to figure out who they are and where they want to go with things.  How about a philosophy to -set the foundation.  The Browns are better at running the ball instead of passing it.  Foundation set.  Now, COMMIT to it , KICKASS and watch playaction passes work once you do so.

The window is slamming down on Stefanski before he loses the team whether it's him orchestrating or Front Office Depo overstepping his bounds like our FO did back when they pissed off Kyle Shanahan when he was our OC.

Bottom line:  The Offensive Coach/Coaches in charge of the design of this offense, the game planning and the play-calling is failing.  How many years do we need to keep excusing the guy in charge of the offense. Schwartz just got here and they're so much further along.  Our STs Coordinator just started and that's improved.  When you have the right guy in charge - you improve.  When you don't?  Here we are complaining about the offense again.  You don't say...

 

Hitting the nail on the head here.
 

Just want to add about Shanny…I watched Niners Cards and you hear a lot about Shanny’s system and play calls.  It is about his players too. The Cards were allergic to the flats all game and didn’t account for CMC.  So he has success and it is back to the well time and time again.  He needs a big play there it is 3 and 7 he gets 9 yards.  He uses his playmakers and calls on them in key situations and senses the confusion and lack of execution on the defenses part to account for the flats and the 49ers best athlete.  It is not Mitchell trying to make that play - he has CMC in there knowing he can beat the defender to the edge. 

 

I know it’s tempting sometimes for the smart guys to think of plays- throwing in a wrinkle to break tendencies but sometimes it is just about players and exploiting the opposing teams weakness to account for a player or a physical/athletic mismatch.  
 

[Orion]

8 hours ago, BernieSuperBowl2 said:

Stefanski didn't do DTR any favors, but most of his throws weren't even in the same zip code as the receiver. 

Yeah, he was in way over his head yesterday.  

 

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

The defense showed up to play very early on; and the home crowd was enjoying it.  However, how long were they getting to rest after they stopped Baltimore? 

A key point.  The D was well rested and ready to go against the Titans.  The offense did a good job against a pretty good D.

 

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Chubb is out, and we just so happened to start a raw, rookie 5th round QB on top of it.    Anybody expecting anything less than a physical grind of a loss was fooling themselves. 

Thank you!   As soon as I turned on the TV and saw our QB, I knew we were screwed and in for a long, painful afternoon.  

[calfoxwc]

 What I don't get, is watson was medically cleared to play, but stefunksy held him out. That's after letting/having baker stupidly play with a sling on his shoulder........??

  The ratbirds have the #7 defense in the NFL, per

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-defense-rankings/

seems this hc has no clue, his instincts suck.

The 49ers are #1...

followed by the

#2 Cowboys

#3 Jets

#4 Bills

#5 Browns

Browns vs 49ners?

https://sportsnaut.com/nfl-offense-rankings/

the niners also have...the #1 ranked offense, too.

going to be one hell of a clash.

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

The final drop-back was the fumble for a TD.  In short, the Browns didn't know the enemy and they knew themselves even less. I'm not impressed with this offense.  We're gonna play SF next that has a very organized offense where there's a route receiving tree for those lining up on their perimeter.  The reason that's important is because their offense is predicated on precision, timing, and chemistry. The Browns offense is governed by confusion and who are we.  While we're deciding this Cleveland QBs have been playing Santa Claus to Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

Maybe this modern game is passing me by. I don't get the sense that teams with offensive coaches that worked with Kyle Shanahan under his dad Mike Shanahan (ie: Sean McVay)or later just under Kyle (Mike McDaniel and Matt LaFleur) have the big time difficulty teaching and orchestrating the offense.  QB Brock Purdy was the very last player drafted in 2022 out of Iowa State.  As a rookie QB Purdy replaced injured starter Jimmy Garoppolo and SF won that game as well as the 8 games Purdy started thereafter.  He actually accomplished this quickly enough to be THE guy ahead of SF's previous 3rd overall pick Trey Lance.  He got them all the way to the NFC Championship. 

Here the Browns are on offense trying to figure out who they are and where they want to go with things.  How about a philosophy to -set the foundation.  The Browns are better at running the ball instead of passing it.  Foundation set.  Now, COMMIT to it , KICKASS and watch playaction passes work once you do so.

The window is slamming down on Stefanski before he loses the team whether it's him orchestrating or Front Office Depo overstepping his bounds like our FO did back when they pissed off Kyle Shanahan when he was our OC.

Bottom line:  The Offensive Coach/Coaches in charge of the design of this offense, the game planning and the play-calling is failing.  How many years do we need to keep excusing the guy in charge of the offense. Schwartz just got here and they're so much further along.  Our STs Coordinator just started and that's improved.  When you have the right guy in charge - you improve.  When you don't?  Here we are complaining about the offense again.  You don't say...

 

Absolutely Flugs!

I hate to keep bringing up the Stoolers game but that loss stung, the Browns gave that one away.

The more I watch this overpaid offense flail around under Stefanski, the more I’m coming to terms that this will probably be another mediocre season.

If we finish 7-10 I fully expect a HC change.

[syd]

1 minute ago, Canton Dawg said:

a HC change.

for who ? and what front office ?

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm more concerned that the Steelers and Ravens exposed the Browns for being such a Charmin' soft team. 

I could almost understand this team being a finesse team if they were a really intelligent team, but they show over and over that they aren't a smart team either. 

You can always tell the commentators that haven't done their homework when they cover the Browns for the 1st time in a while.  They'll say Cleveland has one of the best Offensive Lines in football, which was accurate at one time.  As much as I think Teller is a good run blocker - he has been an absolute liability in pass pro.  You NEVER give up your inside in pass pro especially when you have a DT lined up on your inside shoulder when your QB is trying to throw a quick pass from the pocket.  That should be a piece of cake if you're a Pro Bowl Guard.  Teller had a few breakdowns in pass pro and last year he got busted for holding more than he should have.  Pocic is playing hurt; and that has him not up to snuff too for a team wanting to win their division or at least compete to do so.  I think Nick Harris is a GOOD Center and an upgrade to an injured Pocic.  Harris is a far better Center than he is as an OG.  Center puts him on the apex and he's very quick at establishing ideal position and leverage when he's snapping the ball.  He's not one to overpower some of the 350lbs+ guys; but sometimes all you have to do in that interior is get there 1st and shield off.  He's very good at that IMO.  He got his football potty training at Center so that's why I don't worry about how he play's OG. The Wypler Snapper can be the backup Guard. Our Tackles are getting beat right out of their stances in pass pro and I don't care if one of them went to Ohio State.  That ain't gonna win anything here if he has more chins than a Chinese phone book. Gotta be able to move in this league or your going to be one of the reasons defenses like Pittsburgh and Baltimore are forcing turnovers and/or scoring TDs on our offense.

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Absolutely Flugs!

I hate to keep bringing up the Stoolers game but that loss stung, the Browns gave that one away.

The more I watch this overpaid offense flail around under Stefanski, the more I’m coming to terms that this will probably be another mediocre season.

If we finish 7-10 I fully expect a HC change.

Thanks CD!  I'm starting to wonder if Bill Callahan is getting frustrated with all the mathletics/analytics from the Poindexters Committee dictating what the Browns are attempting to do next in lieu of understanding the human performance unfolding in front of them. If National Lampoon is looking for a Revenge of the Revenge of the Nerds sequel - Welcome to Cleveland!

It's 1 big fart in church!

[Flugel]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm more concerned that the Steelers and Ravens exposed the Browns for being such a Charmin' soft team. 

I could almost understand this team being a finesse team if they were a really intelligent team, but they show over and over that they aren't a smart team either. 

If there's 1 thing I can nit-pick about the defense during all of their improvements in games our offense gives them reasonable rest between series - I'd like to see a few more turnovers or strip sacks forced.  The INT for Baltimore is what changed the complexion of that game.  Against Pittsburgh, Highsmith's INT gave Pitt early momentum Cleveland worked hard to reverse.  Then, their kill shot was the strip sack from an untouched Highsmith that caused the football to makes it's way over to the unblocked TJ Watt for the easiest TD they scored all night.  SF won't be studying statistics - they'll be watching film of the Browns vulnerabilities on the edges and even up the middle the Rats exposed.  They don't need numbers or statistics - it's all there on film.  BTW, Kyle Shanahan likes to keep his dad's old school football going so he'll be watching our defense on film and paying attention the the what and why on 3rd downs, short yardage and red zones.  They'll find trends.  They'll watch football and investigate situational responses to get their answers.  

In all that analytic data they have - I'm not impressed how it prepared the offensive game plan for Pittsburgh.  Old school uses film to study opponents - the Browns don't do this on offense.  That said, Schwartz is old school so we don't have to worry about the mathletics replacing the athletics on that side of the ball just yet.   Belichick gave him his NFL potty training in Cleveland so we're seeing what's possible and just scratching the surface of where they can go. 

[tiamat63]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:38 PM, Canton Dawg said:

God love ya Tia for all the in depth analysis, but I’m a bottom line type of guy.

I’m specifically calling out the play calling vs the Stoolers.

Let’s look at those game stats:

 

Why in the hell would you have Watson drop back and pass forty times, when we were running all over them?

 

 

 Unfortunately what you're attempting to do isn't possible.  Because if you're going just of stats alone, as a "bottom line guy", then it'll grieve you to know that the Browns play calls looked like this in the 1st half v PIT.

 

18 pass  16 Runs w/o the 2 min drill

 27pass and 18run with the 2 minute drill for the FG before half.

 

 

Out of reference, I wanted to see how the Niners play calls contrasted with ours.  Being that they were week 1, and the coaches would look to that film for a blueprint.  

 

 18pass 17 runs w/o the 2 min drill

 Once at the 2 minute mark, it was 21pass to 17 run.      They just had more favorable field position to get in FG range.

 

San Fran's rushing totals....

 

 

Rushing	188
Rushing Attempts	34
Yards per rush	5.5

 

You can't just go "Stats" and not ask how we arrived at said stats.  

 

 

The biggest difference?

 

- Niners averaged almost a full yard per play more than CLE.

- Passing averages were 4.6 to 5.9.   So when the Niners went to push the ball downfield, they had more success after setting it up with the running game and short passes.    Which leads to the next stat...

- 8 Penalties, 4 turnovers and 6 sacks given up by CLE  v 11 Penalties, 1 turnover and 3 sacks given up.

That's a 4:1 and 2:1 ratio higher.  It isn't sustainable for any team.

 

 If you want to be the "bottom line" guy of stats that's fine, then you have to be willing to die by the sword you're living on.    The Browns run to pass balance was within 1 play of San Fran before the 2min warning at the end of each half began to tip those in the obvious direction.  I don't think we're willing to argue against the results SF had, despite their self inflicted penalties, they kicked ass.  But they also protected their QB and didn't allow a defensive score.

  If I looked further into it, I'd be willing to wager Houston's stats look incredibly similar.    If the turnovers are FG's at minimum, or at worst NOT a pick 6,  then you're looking at 29ish... pass attempts and a near 10point lead in the 4th qtr. 

 

  Like I mentioned that Tuesday afterwards, the game boiled down to turnovers and pass protection.   Like we saw against a different opponent this past Sunday, turnovers (including damn near another pick six) and pass protection.     There is one constant in this equation - and it must be fixed by the coaches as much as possible if the personnel simply isn't getting it done.

 

[jrb12711]

I know the link was posted before, but a bit cleaner: https://apnews.com/article/deshaun-watson-shoulder-injury-cleveland-browns-e0a7c8567b09d32d8b770f1b13feb84a

I'm sorry man, going into a bye and a huge early game it sits really shitty with me. You had Carr go with a bum shoulder, Burrow with his calf, and a dude medically cleared to play chooses not to. I'm not naive or aloof to the world not being a movie, but tough to swallow.

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

I know the link was posted before, but a bit cleaner: https://apnews.com/article/deshaun-watson-shoulder-injury-cleveland-browns-e0a7c8567b09d32d8b770f1b13feb84a

I'm sorry man, going into a bye and a huge early game it sits really shitty with me. You had Carr go with a bum shoulder, Burrow with his calf, and a dude medically cleared to play chooses not to. I'm not naive or aloof to the world not being a movie, but tough to swallow.

Business decision... gotta be healthy to spend all that guaranteed money. Give me 53 on the final year of their contracts any day. 

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Unfortunately what you're attempting to do isn't possible.  Because if you're going just of stats alone, as a "bottom line guy", then it'll grieve you to know that the Browns play calls looked like this in the 1st half v PIT.

A balanced offensive attack is great in theory, provided a team is having equal amounts of success, both running and passing.

With both of our offensive tackles looking like matadors during that game, it brought back memories of when Mayfield was being used as a piñata. Only this time it was DW, and the results were the same. I don’t think Kev knows how to make in game adjustments to counter the opposition when they pin their ears back and rush the QB.

The biggest difference?

4 turnovers and 6 sacks given up by CLE

Right, turnovers and sacks were the big difference in that game. It’s sure as hell wasn’t the Stoolers #29 ranked offense that was winning the game. It was the 4 & 5 step drop backs by DW that was feeding points to Shittsburgh. It seemed like the entire 2nd half Watson was running for his life after every snap. I don’t blame Watson, I blame pass protection and the play calling….again.

 

The Browns run to pass balance was within 1 play of San Fran before the 2min warning at the end of each half began to tip those in the obvious direction.

Again, in theory balance is fine if both aspects are working. What describes doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes? 🤔 I’m not against passing the ball, but the QB taking deep drop backs needs to change in that situation.

But they also protected their QB.

Yes they did, but for some reason the Browns can’t…different game same outcome.

Like I mentioned that Tuesday afterwards, the game boiled down to turnovers and pass protection.   Like we saw against a different opponent this past Sunday, turnovers (including damn near another pick six) and pass protection.     There is one constant in this equation - and it must be fixed by the coaches as much as possible if the personnel simply isn't getting it done.

Agreed, if I were the head coach and couldn’t protect my QB, I would say screw the balance I’m going to run the ball more and throw in some quick passes.

 

 

[jiggins7919]

I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol

[jrb12711]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol

Eh- If there's fluid in the shoulder or it's a bad bruise, I get it. I know it's easy to compare this to Mayfield and how in retrospect he probably should have sat. But the fact the Browns are being so "mum" leads me to a place where the dude could have played, but said no (which Stefanski did confirm that he shut himself down despite being medically cleared). 

Meanwhile, you have Derek Carr with a confirmed AC Joint Sprain who laced them up. It's pretty hard to not rationally go to a place where he could have played, and didn't. If that's the case, I'm not going to have ill feelings about questioning the toughness of the highest paid, most important player of the team.

[Neo]

I'm treating Watson like he just got drafted #1 overall. The brass went all in to get him so you better hope he pans out. I'm going to give him the same time I gave Mayfield. If he says his shoulder hurts then it hurts. Rest up and get back at it💪

[SdBacker80]

if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this?  Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault.  Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.  
 

Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”.   They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them. 

[jiggins7919]

2 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Eh- If there's fluid in the shoulder or it's a bad bruise, I get it. I know it's easy to compare this to Mayfield and how in retrospect he probably should have sat. But the fact the Browns are being so "mum" leads me to a place where the dude could have played, but said no (which Stefanski did confirm that he shut himself down despite being medically cleared). 

Meanwhile, you have Derek Carr with a confirmed AC Joint Sprain who laced them up. It's pretty hard to not rationally go to a place where he could have played, and didn't. If that's the case, I'm not going to have ill feelings about questioning the toughness of the highest paid, most important player of the team.

Watson is beyond tough. He expected to play and his body betrayed him. He COULDN'T throw, it wasn't a pain thing. Anyone who saw the video of him throwing could tell it wasn't right. It's why I said during the week he would t play. No zip equals no play. This is the same guy who played with a deflated lung. He wasn't cleared for air travel due to the variation of pressure, so he drove many hours to play in his next game. Watson can be accused of many things, but he doesn't miss games. 

The fault is squarely on Berry AND Stefanski. If I knew he couldn't play, coach should have, too. He should have had a better game plan, instead coach had NOTHING for DTR. It was embarrassing. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this?  Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault.  Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.  
 

Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”.   They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them. 

That was just strange how it all unfolded.  There has to be more to this story.  And then there's the Njoku getting burns on his neck and face at home that also happened very late in the week.

There's some asses on the line here this year.  Looking at this offense, when they're losing to teams they're finally supposed to be beating/handling via "the plan" - it looks like a fire drill in a Chicken Coop.   If the OWNER can ever do the right thing - he needs to have the balls to get Depodesta out of here so his offensive staff can do their job without his interference.  If he doesn't have the balls - it's another year of "same old Browns." 

We deserve way better!

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol

Matt Hasselback said he had the same injury Baker had on the non-throwing shoulder and it was the worst season of his career.  Messed up his mechanics and kept him antsy.  

[bbedward]

It’s a bad take that Watson was cleared so should play. Throwing shoulder injury in game 4, struggling to throw downfield - let it heal up. Maybe if it was a division deciding game or playoff game you expect him to suffer through it, but not now.

Watson will probably miss another 1-2 games this year, and miss some snaps during games. What you really want to see is a qb2 that can step in and make smart decisions and have accurate passes beyond 10 yards. 

Nobody is running away with the division after week 4… and we get 3 more division games. It’s a long season

[D Bone]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this?  Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault.  Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.  
 

Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”.   They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them. 

Ding ding. This right here is going under a lot of noses. Stef could've easily said that:

"Watson tried to go but just couldn't make the throws we felt he needed to make for us to be competitive against a tough division rival, so we as a staff decided it was in the best interest of the team to put a player under center that gave us the best chance to win. Additionally it gives Watson an extra week to heal up with the upcoming bye." 

But instead he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement for reasons that only Kevin knows. 

^ My opinion and guess from 2,312 miles away? Watson is not Stef's dude. Period. 

 

[Orion]

6 minutes ago, D Bone said:

he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement

I agree.  And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him.  The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him.  Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter.  It's the same thing here.  The player was medically cleared to play.  So Stef was going to play him.  But in this case, the player didn't want to play.

[Neo]

43 minutes ago, Orion said:

I agree.  And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him.  The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him.  Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter.  It's the same thing here.  The player was medically cleared to play.  So Stef was going to play him.  But in this case, the player didn't want to play.

Yeah, Baker did play but was it a smart thing to do? Probably not. He's not here anymore. As the games went on I never got the sense he was getting any better. I think the Browns saw their Super Bowl window was still open and took a chance on Watson banking on him returning to form. And can you blame Watson for sitting out? Not his fault someone had a mental breakdown and gave him a massive fully guaranteed contract./

[BernieSuperBowl2]

Who knows what to make of Kev's comment. I'm realizing he's just a weird dude. And he's also a man on the hot seat, and he knows that, so he may be trying to cover himself.

For Watson - it was his throwing shoulder, not his non-throwing shoulder, so that makes a difference. In his warmup throws, Watson didn't throw more than 10 yards. If Watson went out there and noodle-armed all the throws and we get killed by the Ravens, we would be screaming how he should have never played. But that's how bad DTR was and why this is getting overanalyzed so much - a noodle-armed QB who could only throw 1-10 yards the entire game would have been better than DTR.

Great job letting Dobbs go!

[tiamat63]

18 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

 

 It's why I maintain, that as much as I loved Coach Tressel at tOSU, I would have killed for Pete Carroll to have had the job.  

 Tresselball, at it's core is - "run it until they stop it".     PC on the other hand is - "Run it until you know they have to stop it".      The former being a philosophy that is far more adaptable to fielding a consistently more efficient offense by exploited expected defensive adjustments.  

 The Brownies probably could have been a bit more run heavy, especially early on.   However the Steelers gave us the defensive personnel matchups that were pretty ideal to work the quick passing game.  The offense just didn't execute from the get-go.  The "analytic" style in me says to attack the X's and O's and personnel as they give it to you, because it makes perfect sense.     But the old school in me says, it just wasn't working... hand the ball off to your workhorse.

 After the first two drives, the next 2, (when we started moving the ball) were 8 called runs to only 4 passes.  So I think we caught the glimpse of Stef looking to lean on Chubb.    Now I do believe the play call sheet would have looked a lot different had Chubb not gone down with that horrifying injury.   But he did, and the immediate next series we went to lean on Watson and the Oline a bit, and it was a 3 & out with 3 straight passes.      I think what happened to Nick put everyone, including the coaching staff, in a bit of shock and unease.     Because he is/was the safety blanket to this offense.  The man you could turn to when you needed to grind out yardage.      Now you're without him, physically and emotionally, on the road in primetime against a loud crowd with a passing game that still needs time to grow and an offense line struggling in most facets of the game.       

 I think, to an extent, we're upset about similar things.   The devil is in the details as to the 'why?'.     The running game to me boils down to a matter of...

- When we're using it

-How we're using it.   

 

Which I've said before, are questions I'm asking myself about Stef. & Co right now.  

 

[Canton Dawg]

48 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 It's why I maintain, that as much as I loved Coach Tressel at tOSU, I would have killed for Pete Carroll to have had the job.  

 Tresselball, at it's core is - "run it until they stop it".     PC on the other hand is - "Run it until you know they have to stop it".      The former being a philosophy that is far more adaptable to fielding a consistently more efficient offense by exploited expected defensive adjustments.  

 The Brownies probably could have been a bit more run heavy, especially early on.   However the Steelers gave us the defensive personnel matchups that were pretty ideal to work the quick passing game.  The offense just didn't execute from the get-go.  The "analytic" style in me says to attack the X's and O's and personnel as they give it to you, because it makes perfect sense.     But the old school in me says, it just wasn't working... hand the ball off to your workhorse.

 After the first two drives, the next 2, (when we started moving the ball) were 8 called runs to only 4 passes.  So I think we caught the glimpse of Stef looking to lean on Chubb.    Now I do believe the play call sheet would have looked a lot different had Chubb not gone down with that horrifying injury.   But he did, and the immediate next series we went to lean on Watson and the Oline a bit, and it was a 3 & out with 3 straight passes.      I think what happened to Nick put everyone, including the coaching staff, in a bit of shock and unease.     Because he is/was the safety blanket to this offense.  The man you could turn to when you needed to grind out yardage.      Now you're without him, physically and emotionally, on the road in primetime against a loud crowd with a passing game that still needs time to grow and an offense line struggling in most facets of the game.       

 I think, to an extent, we're upset about similar things.   The devil is in the details as to the 'why?'.     The running game to me boils down to a matter of...

- When we're using it

-How we're using it.   

 

Which I've said before, are questions I'm asking myself about Stef. & Co right now.  

 

I agree, I just saw too many bad things happen we were in passing situations.

With the loss of Nick, things just got tougher going forward.

[The Junkyard Dog]

Dude did not want to mess up his shoulder anymore and did not want to go out there and look like an idiot; I don't blame him and lets be honest: People in the Baker cult or just simply don't like Watson, are going to find anything to nitpick him about.

Stefanski should have been knowledgable enough to know he had a rookie who I am sure was very nervous getting his first pro start and therefore needed to have a gameplan to benefit him; instead he did the exact opposite.

If fans blame DW for this loss, or call him a pussy or whatever, they're morons.