▪︎ 🏈​​​​​​​ WEEK 8 ▪︎ Browns 20 vs ● Seahawks 24 ▪︎ CLE Game 7 Thread 🏈 Oct. 29. "L"

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Well said Mr Pluto.

1 thing I really hate seeing is an empty backfield on 3rd and short.

1 thing really like seeing is Nick Harris at FB lead blocking.

1 thing I wish PJ Walker would stop doing is throwing across his body.

1 thing I'd like to keep seeing PJ Walker do is committing to the run when he's got an easy 5-10 yards.  When he changes his mind to throw it at the last split second - he makes some really bad/risky choice.

Here's the thing, the kid is giving it his all and that's admirable.  None of this is his fault.  Not that Josh Dobbs has lit it up in Arizona but he was here for a year or 2 with more more knowledge of the offense than throwing it at PJ all at once. Oh well, let's see how Walker progresses.

[Canton Dawg]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

1 thing I really hate seeing is an empty backfield on 3rd and short.

1 thing really like seeing is Nick Harris at FB lead blocking.

1 thing I wish PJ Walker would stop doing is throwing across his body.

1 thing I'd like to keep seeing PJ Walker do is committing to the run when he's got an easy 5-10 yards.  When he changes his mind to throw it at the last split second - he makes some really bad/risky choice.

Here's the thing, the kid is giving it his all and that's admirable.  None of this is his fault.  Not that Josh Dobbs has lit it up in Arizona but he was here for a year or 2 with more more knowledge of the offense than throwing it at PJ all at once. Oh well, let's see how Walker progresses.

I know, Walker has the heart of a lion and he took some shots from the Seattle D.

But at the end of the day, he’s nothing more than backup quality in the XFL.

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I feel.for Walker. Say what you want but the guy loves this team. Shit happens.  a handful could. have just as easily been a fumble. Better to gamble than live as a coward.

Marty and Bernie were cowards.

Stefanski is a coward. He was afraid of Smith and gave him a complimentary. blow job and begged him, " If I play nice and don't try.to hurt you will please. just play for a field goal.

To everyone, don't life your life in fear. You will never achieve anything without risk.

Stefanski and Depodesta are cowards

Tom it was actually a pretty bold move from Stefanski to try and have PJ throw that pass.  

I'll let you cue up your Depodesta rant. That play call was a pure anal-itics move. Sometimes you just have to go with what your gut tells you to do, instead of some stupid numbers.  

[syd]

i liked the screen passes we called 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

That play call was a pure anal-itics move. Sometimes you just have to go with what your gut tells you to do, instead of some stupid numbers. 

By the same token, it was 3 long yards and the Seahawks were probably very aware that we might be running the ball there....to make them use a TO and keep things safe.  I'm sure Stef was thinking, if it's complete, we win the game.  If it's incomplete, we punt and make them face my defense on the long field.  Who knew it was going to hit off the top of a helmet and pop up in the air like a beachball?  

I would've run it and probably gotten stuffed.  But I don't fault him for that call.  As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, we had a pick six in our hands and dropped it.  We could pin the loss on him just as easily as Stef.  -  The ref didn't save us this week.  

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, Orion said:

By the same token, it was 3 long yards and the Seahawks were probably very aware that we might be running the ball there....to make them use a TO and keep things safe.  I'm sure Stef was thinking, if it's complete, we win the game.  If it's incomplete, we punt and make them face my defense on the long field.  Who knew it was going to hit off the top of a helmet and pop up in the air like a beachball?  

I would've run it and probably gotten stuffed.  But I don't fault him for that call.  As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, we had a pick six in our hands and dropped it.  We could pin the loss on him just as easily as Stef.  -  The ref didn't save us this week.  

The 3rd and 3 was right before the 2:00 warning. Regardless of the outcome of the play, the Seahawks would not have had to use a timeout. 

[Jax]

This team is 4 and 2, you play it safe. You don't need to risk it as if you already have a losing record.

You hand the ball off to Hunt and if he doesn't make it you do what all the other good teams do, you punt and let your defense win it.

Maybe at worse they tie the game with a field goal.

Seattle has a top notch defense as well that can get to the QB, nothing like going empty backfield to allow them to come at it. Stef coached a great game, PJ played great enough to win but that call is just mind boggling.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

The 3rd and 3 was right before the 2:00 warning. Regardless of the outcome of the play, the Seahawks would not have had to use a timeout. 

Right- but a run would have put it past 2:00.  Punt, another TO on change of possession. That gives the Seahawks (charitably) on their own 20 with two time outs left and around 1:50.... Enough time to score? Sure... But you trust PJ more than your defense Kev?  

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Right- but a run would have put it past 2:00.  Punt, another TO on change of possession. 

A run would have gotten the clock to 2:00 to maybe 1:55. Time would have stopped.

Then a punt, time would have stopped on change of possession. 

So the time would have remained the same, the Seahawks amount of timeouts would have stayed the same, and they would have had to go 15-20 more yards for a game winning touchdown, but the same amount of yards (or less) for a tying field goal. 

The bigger problem was the defense became room temperature butter to the Seahawks hot knife. 

But yes, I would have preferred a run there too, but lets not pretend there isn't a group of people on this board who would have been calling Stefanski a pussy if he ran the ball on 3rd down, it got predictably stuffed, they punt the ball away and the Seahawks still march down the field like they are Sherman on his way through the South. 

[Jax]

Yes, I always argue my points on what people may or may not say instead of sticking to what actually happened.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

A run would have gotten the clock to 2:00 to maybe 1:55. Time would have stopped.

Then a punt, time would have stopped on change of possession. 

So the time would have remained the same, the Seahawks amount of timeouts would have stayed the same, and they would have had to go 15-20 more yards for a game winning touchdown, but the same amount of yards (or less) for a tying field goal. 

The bigger problem was the defense became room temperature butter to the Seahawks hot knife. 

But yes, I would have preferred a run there too, but lets not pretend there isn't a group of people on this board who would have been calling Stefanski a pussy if he ran the ball on 3rd down, it got predictably stuffed, they punt the ball away and the Seahawks still march down the field like they are Sherman on his way through the South. 

There IS that!  And do you REALIZE how easy it is to call plays when you have a QB with PJ's resume in such a traditionally quiet stadium like Seattle has?  

The one place I think Stefanski can help himself & PJ out better is the choice of formations that don't railroad PJ into the sharp teeth of trouble.  I like a 2nd option for a QB so I would love a dump off option instead of going empty backfield. It just seems like we use that formation at the worst possible time.  Outside of that, they have to execute what they prepared to do all week.  Getting behind early didn't help us in the end - those TDs Seattle scored never got subtracted.

Last year Stefanski did a nice job when Jacoby Brissett was here. This year, he has a QB that got cut by the Chicago Bears in preseason.  If that's an easy gig for Stefanski - I'm all ears.

IMO, fans only want to think there's 1 problem.  "Yeah, just fire Stefanski." Okay, who is going to hire the replacement?  The same guy that hired Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens?  Be careful what you wish for.  If you noticed, when Kitchens was here - he ALSO had an Offensive Coordinator named Todd Monken that wasn't allowed to call the plays.  That's no different than reducing Alex Van Pelt to a committee member today.  The trend of doing this is about 3 Head Coaches deep now, which makes me think this idea comes from someone in the front office.  I could be wrong - but it's pretty freakin consistent. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Flugel
mind fart

[Flugel]

9 minutes ago, Flugel said:

There IS that!  And do you REALIZE how easy it is to call plays when you have a QB with PJ's resume in such a traditionally quiet stadium like Seattle has?  

The one place I think Stefanski can help himself & PJ out better is the choice of formations that don't railroad PJ into the sharp teeth of trouble.  I like a 2nd option for a QB so I would love a dump off option instead of going empty backfield. It just seems like we use that formation at the worst possible time.  Outside of that, they have to execute what they prepared to do all week.  Getting behind early didn't help us in the end - those TDs Seattle scored never got subtracted.

Last year Stefanski did a nice job when Jacoby Brissett was here. This year, he has a QB that got cut by the Chicago Bears in preseason.  If that's an easy gig for Stefanski - I'm all ears.

IMO, fans only want to think there's 1 problem.  "Yeah, just fire Stefanski." Okay, who is going to hire the replacement?  The same guy that hired Hue Jackson and Freddie Childress?  Be careful what you wish for.  If you noticed, when Childress was here - he ALSO had an Offensive Coordinator named Todd Monken that wasn't allowed to call the plays.  That's no different than reducing Alex Van Pelt to a committee member today.  The trend of doing this is about 3 Head Coaches deep now, which makes me think this idea comes from someone in the front office.  I could be wrong - but it's pretty freakin consistent. 

FWIW, whenever I'm lucky enough to join the gameday discussions - I frequently type RUN THE BALL.  This year should be a Woody Hayes mentality considering the QB situation.  

[nickers]

19 minutes ago, Flugel said:

There IS that!  And do you REALIZE how easy it is to call plays when you have a QB with PJ's resume in such a traditionally quiet stadium like Seattle has?  

The one place I think Stefanski can help himself & PJ out better is the choice of formations that don't railroad PJ into the sharp teeth of trouble.  I like a 2nd option for a QB so I would love a dump off option instead of going empty backfield. It just seems like we use that formation at the worst possible time.  Outside of that, they have to execute what they prepared to do all week.  Getting behind early didn't help us in the end - those TDs Seattle scored never got subtracted.

Last year Stefanski did a nice job when Jacoby Brissett was here. This year, he has a QB that got cut by the Chicago Bears in preseason.  If that's an easy gig for Stefanski - I'm all ears.

IMO, fans only want to think there's 1 problem.  "Yeah, just fire Stefanski." Okay, who is going to hire the replacement?  The same guy that hired Hue Jackson and Freddie Childress?  Be careful what you wish for.  If you noticed, when Childress was here - he ALSO had an Offensive Coordinator named Todd Monken that wasn't allowed to call the plays.  That's no different than reducing Alex Van Pelt to a committee member today.  The trend of doing this is about 3 Head Coaches deep now, which makes me think this idea comes from someone in the front office.  I could be wrong - but it's pretty freakin consistent. 

Freddie Childress was here during the Belichek era.. He was about Jed Wills level of O lineman.. I think you meant a one Frederic "Fat back" Kitchens

[Korsou Dawg]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

but lets not pretend there isn't a group of people on this board who would have been calling Stefanski a pussy if he ran the ball on 3rd down

I don't put much weight behind people calling Browns players or staff a pussy. Especially when they spell a 5-letter word with 6, and manage to get 4 of those wrong. An achievement, whichever way you look at it!

 

[Flugel]

11 minutes ago, nickers said:

Freddie Childress was here during the Belichek area.. He was about Jed Wills level of O lineman.. I think you meant a one Frederic "Fat back" Kitchens

Thanks Nicks!   Yes, he was THAT impressive.  I guess it's progress on my part - I finally stopped confusing the guy with Larry the Cable Guy.  I'll go back and edit that.  

[nickers]

5 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Thanks Nicks!   Yes, he was THAT impressive.  I guess it's progress on my part - I finally stopped confusing the guy with Larry the Cable Guy.  I'll go back and edit that.  

Np Senore' Tomas'!  carry on dear sir!

[nickers]

10 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

I don't put much weight behind people calling Browns players or staff a pussy. Especially when they spell a 5-letter word with 6, and manage to get 4 of those wrong. An achievement, whichever way you look at it!

 

I spelled it that way on purpose... Dense much?

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

There IS that!  And do you REALIZE how easy it is to call plays when you have a QB with PJ's resume in such a traditionally quiet stadium like Seattle has?  

The one place I think Stefanski can help himself & PJ out better is the choice of formations that don't railroad PJ into the sharp teeth of trouble.  I like a 2nd option for a QB so I would love a dump off option instead of going empty backfield. It just seems like we use that formation at the worst possible time.  Outside of that, they have to execute what they prepared to do all week.  Getting behind early didn't help us in the end - those TDs Seattle scored never got subtracted.

Last year Stefanski did a nice job when Jacoby Brissett was here. This year, he has a QB that got cut by the Chicago Bears in preseason.  If that's an easy gig for Stefanski - I'm all ears.

IMO, fans only want to think there's 1 problem.  "Yeah, just fire Stefanski." Okay, who is going to hire the replacement?  The same guy that hired Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens?  Be careful what you wish for.  If you noticed, when Kitchens was here - he ALSO had an Offensive Coordinator named Todd Monken that wasn't allowed to call the plays.  That's no different than reducing Alex Van Pelt to a committee member today.  The trend of doing this is about 3 Head Coaches deep now, which makes me think this idea comes from someone in the front office.  I could be wrong - but it's pretty freakin consistent. 

Any analytics department that puts Our most effective short yardage back on the sideline the whole fourth quarter while being in 3rd and short throughout the quarter is broken.

Try this for analytics…Ball in the hands of a QB with 51.8 QBR.  What could possibly go wrong?  He doesn’t execute a decent play design? Likely.  He turns the ball over? possibly. 

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Any analytics department that puts Our most effective short yardage back on the sideline the whole fourth quarter while being in 3rd and short throughout the quarter is broken.

There it is in a nutshell. They need to stick to drafting only. Let the HC tell them the kinds of players he needs and run them his own way. Hunt is pure money when it comes to yardage needed for 1st downs or TDs in the redzone. Use him properly. Analytics overthinks it to the point of losing touch with what we have, a great back who will get you what you need.

EDIT: My own brain told me you have two downs with Hunt running to win or lose this game. To me it's like having a pair of aces in the hole. Go all in when you have the chance.

[MDDawg]

In hindsight a running play would definitely have made more sense with a backup QB but nobody's calling out the defense for giving up 60 yds and a real easy TD on  a simple screen. Notably this is the 3rd game in a row where the defense collapsed in the last two minutes, we were lucky in the last two games to escape with a win.

[SdBacker80]

55 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

In hindsight a running play would definitely have made more sense with a backup QB but nobody's calling out the defense for giving up 60 yds and a real easy TD on  a simple screen. Notably this is the 3rd game in a row where the defense collapsed in the last two minutes, we were lucky on the last two games to escape with a win.

Agree with you.  And 24 points was five points too many.  The coverage was way too soft that last drive…they needed 30 yards not 80 yards with no timeouts.  
 

I think most are pleased with the improvement on that side of the ball.  I would argue some are oversimplifying the improvement.  You can point to some additions Hurst, Tomlinson, Smith and Thornhill…but Myles is utilized in a more impactful way.  Jordan Elliot looks like a new player, JOK has 9 TFLs.  The defense unlike last year has had more signature moments and less collapses like the Two TD in two minute collapse against the Jets in 2022.

Honest question…is there a player on that side of the ball from the 2022 squad that isnt performing as well as they did last year? 

 

 

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

There it is in a nutshell. They need to stick to drafting only. Let the HC tell them the kinds of players he needs and run them his own way. Hunt is pure money when it comes to yardage needed for 1st downs or TDs in the redzone. Use him properly. Analytics overthinks it to the point of losing touch with what we have, a great back who will get you what you need.

EDIT: My own brain told me you have two downs with Hunt running to win or lose this game. To me it's like having a pair of aces in the hole. Go all in when you have the chance.

Hmmm…3rd and 3…a hunt run gets us 2 yards.  2 minute warning.  4th down a hunt run gets us the needed yard.  Hawks use a TO.  1:55 left.  First down Browns.

Kneel down 1:50 last timeout used.

Kneel down 1:15.

Kneel down :30 seconds.

Punt :22 seconds no timeouts for the Hawks. Buried deep. 
 

Hunt two tries for three yards.  I like the analytics there given the circumstances and the flow of the game…Kevin still gets to be risky. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

17 hours ago, hoorta said:

Tom it was actually a pretty bold move from Stefanski to try and have PJ throw that pass.  

I'll let you cue up your Depodesta rant. That play call was a pure anal-itics move. Sometimes you just have to go with what your gut tells you to do, instead of some stupid numbers.  

It was a good play call, AGAINST the analytics.

THIS is my kind of football. 8 in the box, taunt the bull and burn it. Absolutely a great call. Winning requires risk and there is no debate here. This WAS guts and not conservative analytics BS.

teams that win championships don't rely on analytics other than to know what defe se the other teams who use analytics will be playing.

Analytics are for sheep, for the man who can't think for himself.

This game was lost the same way Elway was allowed to execute the Drive. How many average and sub average QBs playing like Dan Marino against us will it take for Browns fans and coaches to understand that any NFL qb will eviscerated your D if you don't get after him.

 

Geno Smith is a shit QB, but again, the Browns play.coward, Marty football.

The defe.se lost this game.

 

 

[D Bone]

To add to my original thought on being 'OK' with the pass on 3rd and 3, if Stef had already committed in his own head to going for it on 4th, then he 100% made the wrong call and should've ran it to create a 4th and 1 at worst. 

Personally, I don't have a lot of faith that Kevin actually calls plays 2 or 3 ahead, so in all honesty the thought of a 4th down decision probably never even crossed his mind during the heat of the moment.... another reason why someone needs to be in charge of gameday, game flow, real time decisions that often win and lose games. Someone needs to make a calm decision and Kevin frantically looking at his play sheet isn't the dude. 

From what I've been able to piece together in terms of momentum, the real time rest the defense had, how they played in the 4th, how PJ had looked throwing in the 4th and how well the Browns had ran the ball, I would've been pissed he threw it as well... especially if I thought for a single second he was going to try to win it on 4th and 1 the very next play.

Still, Kevin had them in a position to win the game with his 1/4 billion dollar QB standing on the sidelines and watching a practice level dude take the snaps from center.

Too bad the defense couldn't rise to the occasion and put their stamp on being the NFL's #1 ranked unit - but seems they get a pass on allowing an easy game winning drive....   

 

 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Any analytics department that puts Our most effective short yardage back on the sideline the whole fourth quarter while being in 3rd and short throughout the quarter is broken.

Try this for analytics…Ball in the hands of a QB with 51.8 QBR.  What could possibly go wrong?  He doesn’t execute a decent play design? Likely.  He turns the ball over? possibly. 

 

 

Spot on SdB!!!!!   Again, the Browns had Josh Dobbs here with far less to learn about this offense.  I think he could have won a game like this.  We have a much better defense than Arizona and I think our running game is also better regardless of what backs we use.  Having said that, someone seems to like empty backfields here which fools nobody but the Cleveland Browns unfortunately.   Well, ok they fool the Hell out of me with that too.

As much as our Defense has given us a lot to be happy with - Seattle's 1st 2 TD drives and their last one of the game were very disappointing.  The Browns D settled in and played well in the 2nd, 3rd and all but the last 2 minutes.  But those last 2 minutes were a killer considering how close the Browns got to check mate.   When you go on the road to a place like that - it's gonna come down to who makes the plays and who leaves them on the field.  

[nickers]

1 minute ago, D Bone said:

To add to my original thought on being 'OK' with the pass on 3rd and 3, if Stef had already committed in his own head to going for it on 4th, then he 100% made the wrong call and should've ran it to create a 4th and 1  at worst. 

Personally, I don't have a lot of faith that Kevin actually calls plays 2 or 3 ahead, so in all honesty the thought of a 4th down decision probably never even crossed his mind during the heat of the moment.... another reason why someone needs to be in charge of gameday, game flow, real time decisions that often win and lose games. Someone needs to make a calm decision and Kevin frantically looking at his play sheet isn't the dude. 

From what I've been able to piece together in terms of momentum, the real time rest the defense had, how they played in the 4th, how PJ had looked throwing in the 4th and how well the Browns had ran the ball, I would've been pissed he threw it as well... especially if I thought for a single second he was going to try to win it on 4th and 1 the very next play.

Still, Kevin had them in a position to win the game with his 1/4 billion dollar QB standing on the sidelines and watching a practice level dude take the snaps from center.

Too bad the defense couldn't rise to the occasion and put their stamp on being the NFL's #1 ranked unit - but seems they get a pass on allowing an easy game winning drive....   

 

 

 

 

I'll just throw this little nugget out there... Technically... Stef isn't AB's guy.. Kev was hired by depud before Berry got back here... So in reality... AB can say Stef was never his guy... This off season should be a circus to watch unfold...

[Korsou Dawg]

10 hours ago, nickers said:

I spelled it that way on purpose... Dense much?

Let's look up your spelling on publicly available sources:

poosie

• Poosie(Poo-see) comes from the word pussy, vagina, twat, **MASK**, cooter, ect ect. The differnce is that Poosie is a really nice pussy.

I roxxed her poosie.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poosie

So, you didn't misspell anything, you just think Watson is really nice, in a vagina sort of way. I stand corrected!

[mjp28]

19 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Let's look up your spelling on publicly available sources:

poosie

• Poosie(Poo-see) comes from the word pussy, vagina, twat, **MASK**, cooter, ect ect. The differnce is that Poosie is a really nice pussy.

I roxxed her poosie.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poosie

So, you didn't misspell anything, you just think Watson is really nice, in a vagina sort of way. I stand corrected!

 .   That's good, we needed some excitement in a boring  November 1 day.   *Etc, etc*   

[mjp28]

~       OK  here's one especially for our   Korsou  Dawg   friend :

Pickleback

A series of two shots, first whiskey (typically Jamesons) followed by a shot of pickle juice/brine.

Bartender! Another round of Picklebacks for my friends!  

 

~       Generally followed by a typical good drummer rim shot ...  ta dum, dum.   .       From mjp.    [ and the Urban dictionary ]

[mjp28]

~          And,  to Korsou Dawg .....  of course the chaser (of sorts) ......

Whiskey    [  From the Urban Dictionary,  naturally. ]

1. The oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes;

2. Christmas cheer;

3. The stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman’s step on a frosty, crispy morning;

4. The drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life’s great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows;

 

I drink whiskey because I am an American.

 

~       ..... from mjp.              🌶️        🏈