Draft Talk

[jiggins7919]

Allen is definitely in my "I'd be perfectly happy with that pick" group. At this time, that group is Garrett, Allen, and Mitch. Go watch the highlights from those three. Yo!

 

I think my biggest fear regarding the draft us trading out of the number one pick. I can see another team going head over heels for one of those three players and offering up the farm. I don't think I want to trade...regardless of the offer. I think we need the type of player that CAN come with being drafted that high.

[gftChris]

Allen is definitely in my "I'd be perfectly happy with that pick" group. At this time, that group is Garrett, Allen, and Mitch. Go watch the highlights from those three. Yo!

 

I think my biggest fear regarding the draft us trading out of the number one pick. I can see another team going head over heels for one of those three players and offering up the farm. I don't think I want to trade...regardless of the offer. I think we need the type of player that CAN come with being drafted that high.

Given that you'd be happy with any one of those three guys, would you be unhappy if we traded back to #3, picked up whichever one is left, and came out with an extra second round pick, for example?

[flyingfooldoug]

Given that you'd be happy with any one of those three guys, would you be unhappy if we traded back to #3, picked up whichever one is left, and came out with an extra second round pick, for example?

Or trade up and take two of the top three. We do need playmakers and have the picks to trade up.

[LondonBrown]

Or trade up and take two of the top three. We do need playmakers and have the picks to trade up.

No no. We have way too many holes on the roster to think about trading up.

[flyingfooldoug]

No no. We have way too many holes on the roster to think about trading up.

OK, same old same old.

[gftChris]

Or trade up and take two of the top three. We do need playmakers and have the picks to trade up.

From mid teens to #3 is going to cost a first round pick and then some.

 

But moving back to 3 - you or nay?

[flyingfooldoug]

So if we were to take playmakers, one O and one D and a couple of decent FAs I bet we win more and sooner.

[domcucch1994]

It seems as if Hue is not sold on Kessler..

 

Honestly, the Browns need to cut RGKnee,

Draft Mitch at #1

BPA with their pick from Philly

Go defense and Oline the rest of the way.

Sign a veteran safety like Eric Berry to sure up the secondary

 

Give Kess the reigns next year and see if he is the guy.

Let Mitch sit for a year even if Kess struggles.

 

We might only be a 4-6 win team next season. Time will tell.

Drafting quality players and signing quality FAs should be Sashi and DePodesta's top priorities!

[gftChris]

So draft a QB #1 overall, then let the other QB 'see if he's the guy'? What if he's the guy? Then you have a #1 overall pick waiting around doing nothing. Better to draft the best player in the draft, then give Kessler a year to see if he's the guy with a better team around him. If not, then you can look at QBs in 2018.

[flyingfooldoug]

From mid teens to #3 is going to cost a first round pick and then some.

But moving back to 3 - you or nay?

You still get 2 of the top three. BUT, they have to be hits. And that's been our biggest fail.

[flyingfooldoug]

And you can look at the stupid cowfags and see how they fucked up by using high draft picks on linemen. Once again, best line = best team

[domcucch1994]

So draft a QB #1 overall, then let the other QB 'see if he's the guy'? What if he's the guy? Then you have a #1 overall pick waiting around doing nothing. Better to draft the best player in the draft, then give Kessler a year to see if he's the guy with a better team around him. If not, then you can look at QBs in 2018.

Well how can we be so sure?

It may swing in our favor if we bring in Mitch and he impresses the coaching staff.

 

Why wait until 2018? Cleveland needs to solve this QB mess they have put themselves into.

[gftChris]

And you can look at the stupid cowfags and see how they fucked up by using high draft picks on linemen. Once again, best line = best team

I'm on board with the middle-out

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFYy3oEnzVg

[flyingfooldoug]

I think the O line will get better as they play together as a unit. Cam should end up working the gate at Blossom. They need playmakers tho to win. I don't have the time to watch and follow all the draft eligible players so I won't get into who should be drafted. Pryor can be a playmaker but has no help...ala Cribbs. A badass LB to team with Collins and a Gronk type TE could go a long ways with improving the W L record

[The Gipper]

 

only an idiot is posting football in the early hours of the morning, and...

 

eh... never mind.

 

Seriously, I am not impressed with Kizer - his arm is impressive, but overall, he seems to be

a one read qb.

 

Trubisky, sometimes he scans the entire field, seems to have terrific sense in the pocket,

can improvise on the move, and most of the time - very accurately, even when his footwork

takes him backwards, sideways, etc to avoid a rush.... can get rid of the ball quick...

 

It's way early, but he may very well be the guy for the Browns. I love the clip of the Pitt game -

they won it on the quarterbacking of Trubisky in the last seconds. Just a whole LOT of great qualities.

 

Pitt game

 

Quick release. Strong arm. Accurate long, plus soft touch on shorter passes.

He WILL get a serious look for #1 overall.

 

Though, guess what....IMO it will be the SF 49ers that will have that pick.

[gftChris]

The more I see of Adoree Jackson the more I like him opposite Joe Haden. At 33 or 45 (or wherever the titans pick) I'm a happy camper.

[TexasAg1969]

Quick release. Strong arm. Accurate long, plus soft touch on shorter passes.

He WILL get a serious look for #1 overall.

 

Though, guess what....IMO it will be the SF 49ers that will have that pick.

 

Ah, we have to win a game plus currently our division keeps us in the lead if we tie since ours is 12-14-1 and theirs is stronger at 14-11-2. The tie goes to the one from the weaker division based on division record. So likely we have to win 2 games for it to go to SF. Just not gonna happen.

[The Gipper]

 

Ah, we have to win a game plus currently our division keeps us in the lead if we tie since ours is 12-14-1 and theirs is stronger at 14-11-2. The tie goes to the one from the weaker division based on division record. So likely we have to win 2 games for it to go to SF. Just not gonna happen.

I thought it was overall strength of schedule, not just division strength. E.g. the Browns played the Cowboys and Patriots, both of whom have strong win records.....though, I do note that the 49ers did play...and lose to the Cowboys, and they play the Pats this week. So those even out.

Which is it?

[Tour2ma]

So if we were to take playmakers, one O and one D and a couple of decent FAs I bet we win more and sooner.

 

Won't rule out your trade up or a trade down... It all depends on player evaluations and "the price". However, "win sooner" is fan talk.

 

What have you heard from Sashi & Co. that says win sooner is in the plan? The plan is to build a sustainably successful team. Part of that sustainability is the accumulation, not the dispersing, of high picks. Sashi spoke in his presser about "staying with the plan" and the dangers of straying from/modifying that plan, that process because short-term returns are not what you'd hoped.

 

Winning is the ultimate metric, but if Sashi is half the executive I think he is, then there are other, short-term metrics that he is looking to short-term for any mid-course corrections to the process... and they were in the "plan" from the get-go. They are core to the process improvement model.

 

So draft a QB #1 overall, then let the other QB 'see if he's the guy'? What if he's the guy? Then you have a #1 overall pick waiting around doing nothing. Better to draft the best player in the draft, then give Kessler a year to see if he's the guy with a better team around him. If not, then you can look at QBs in 2018.

 

I hear you, but...

• Having two "the guys" that you, and other teams, believe in is not the worst situation in the world as you can always trade one of them, e.g. Philly with Wentz/Bradford, the Pats with Brady/Cassel or the Pack with Rodgers/Flynn.
• The longer you wait, the better your record, the more difficult and clostly it is to make that deal to add a QB later.

All that said, you simply cannot wish a QB to be worthy of #1 overall. And that happens way too often with some team... or fan-base.

 

Some QB always shoots up the board late. Sometimes they are real... sometimes not... sometimes "sort of". All a team can do is be as sure as they can be as to which QB is destined for which fate.

 

One last thought... and this is with a lot of "work" to do yet... I am not convinced that "the QB" in the 2017 draft will not fall out of the top ten... maybe even the top 20.

[flyingfooldoug]

Can't disagree about 1 and 2 but only if you as the gm are pretty certain they are big hits.

Stosh hasn't said much about W L record in the past few weeks. I know they are all "shocked" about not winning. Fwiw

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Winning is the ultimate metric, but if Sashi is half the executive I think he is, then there are other, short-term metrics that he is looking to short-term for any mid-course corrections to the process... and they were in the "plan" from the get-go. They are core to the process improvement model.

 

 

 

This is what excites me. This stuff right here.

 

How do you quantify success? Well, duh...wins. But what's the difference between a SB Bucs team and the current Patriots dynasty? Both have rings, so both should be a role model for our rebuild, right?

 

Hell no.

 

What this FO wants is to find what similarities there are between dynastic franchises, not between one-off successes. The amount of times I've heard people point to the Bucs and Ravens as role model examples on this board is ridiculous - we shouldn't want to be like them. We don't want to fall ass-backwards into a ring, we want to put the franchise on a permanent course of success.

 

In the long-term, wins are the obvious metric. But in the short term, initial wins mean nothing. As a matter of fact, they are detrimental to the success of the long-term plan. Sorry, but it's true.

 

Short term metrics for growth are the unsexy numbers.

 

From a coaching perspective - Turnover ratio, blitz success percentage, YPA/C, target distribution, "plus" play percentage, PA completion percentage, etc.

 

From a managerial standpoint - positional salary distribution, talent acquisition maximization (this is one of my biggest sticking points), cap hit per snap, etc.

 

These metrics are rarely talked about, but can be the strongest indicators for growth in a winless season.

 

Further, these metrics for growth have to be viewed more along the lines of relative position than anything else, because hard-set numbers fluctuate in the NFL on a yearly basis.

 

This is the kind of shit that our FO is looking at. It's a damn sight more useful to us in building back a legitimately strong franchise than a handful of wins in a down year.

[flyingfooldoug]

This is what excites me. This stuff right here.

How do you quantify success? Well, duh...wins. But what's the difference between a SB Bucs team and the current Patriots dynasty? Both have rings, so both should be a role model for our rebuild, right?

Hell no.

What this FO wants is to find what similarities there are between dynastic franchises, not between one-off successes. The amount of times I've heard people point to the Bucs and Ravens as role model examples on this board is ridiculous - we shouldn't want to be like them. We don't want to fall ass-backwards into a ring, we want to put the franchise on a permanent course of success.

In the long-term, wins are the obvious metric. But in the short term, initial wins mean nothing. As a matter of fact, they are detrimental to the success of the long-term plan. Sorry, but it's true.

Short term metrics for growth are the unsexy numbers.

From a coaching perspective - Turnover ratio, blitz success percentage, YPA/C, target distribution, "plus" play percentage, PA completion percentage, etc.

From a managerial standpoint - positional salary distribution, talent acquisition maximization (this is one of my biggest sticking points), cap hit per snap, etc.

These metrics are rarely talked about, but can be the strongest indicators for growth in a winless season.

Further, these metrics for growth have to be viewed more along the lines of relative position than anything else, because hard-set numbers fluctuate in the NFL on a yearly basis.

This is the kind of shit that our FO is looking at. It's a damn sight more useful to us in building back a legitimately strong franchise than a handful of wins in a down year.

OK but isn't all that still dependent on success with your picks? That's still what it all boils down to. I hope they're right but they gotta hit on some picks

[wargograw]

I'm gonna start camp trade down just to piss people off.

[Harry Buffalo]

I honestly don't see the point in saying I want guy X at QB until after the bowl games. Every year a new name gets brought after after everything is said and done. Wentz came out of no where, Bortles came out of no where, Tannehill came out of no where ect ect.

[syd]

 

only an idiot is posting football in the early hours of the morning, and...

 

eh... never mind.

 

Seriously, I am not impressed with Kizer - his arm is impressive, but overall, he seems to be

a one read qb.

 

Trubisky, sometimes he scans the entire field, seems to have terrific sense in the pocket,

can improvise on the move, and most of the time - very accurately, even when his footwork

takes him backwards, sideways, etc to avoid a rush.... can get rid of the ball quick...

 

It's way early, but he may very well be the guy for the Browns. I love the clip of the Pitt game -

they won it on the quarterbacking of Trubisky in the last seconds. Just a whole LOT of great qualities.

 

Pitt game

 

 

yes I believe he will be drafted high,only thing he as only started 9 or 10 games ?

[TexasAg1969]

I thought it was overall strength of schedule, not just division strength. E.g. the Browns played the Cowboys and Patriots, both of whom have strong win records.....though, I do note that the 49ers did play...and lose to the Cowboys, and they play the Pats this week. So those even out.

Which is it?

 

Here it is: "Overall ties are then broken by strength of schedule, which is a calculation of the combined record of all of a team's opponents in that year, with divisional opponents counting twice."

 

It's the division counting twice that makes it hard to overcome.

[gumby73]

 

yes I believe he will be drafted high,only thing he as only started 9 or 10 games ?

Well this just got interesting. Local news in NC says, HC Larry Fedora was contacted today by LSU for the HC position. FSU Jimbo Fisher also been rumored to LSU. Was hoping Mitch would pull a A.Luck & play his senior year to prove his lack of games played was no fluke. But if Larry Fedora goes, why risk being thrown a new offensive system when your already a top 10 pick? Could create a great scouting fact for 2018 draft also..Tick Tock

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

OK but isn't all that still dependent on success with your picks? That's still what it all boils down to. I hope they're right but they gotta hit on some picks

It is dependent on hitting picks, of course. And this FO hasn't missed on a pick yet, considering as we are only 10 weeks into their rookie season and making a judgment one way or the other is extremely premature.

 

Even when I was crowning Wentz, there was always the caveat that it's still too early to tell.

 

The difference between draft bust and draft star is hardly black and white. Unless you think Dak Prescott would have us at 9-1 right now.

[syd]

Well this just got interesting. Local news in NC says, HC Larry Fedora was contacted today by LSU for the HC position. FSU Jimbo Fisher also been rumored to LSU. Was hoping Mitch would pull a A.Luck & play his senior year to prove his lack of games played was no fluke. But if Larry Fedora goes, why risk being thrown a new offensive system when your already a top 10 pick? Could create a great scouting fact for 2018 draft also..Tick Tock

 

one would think he would for go his senior year if that's the case sure would make for some interesting conversation

[flyingfooldoug]

I'm gonna start camp trade down just to piss people off.

Good for you cupcake