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Adoug319

By Adoug319
in THE BROWNS BOARD

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

Posted
Posted

Similar is the operative word...

 

There has always been a place in the NFL for the slightly undersized, quick, strong DT... especially lined up next to an anchorsaurus.

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jiggins7919 Experienced

jiggins7919

Posted
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Gilbert instead :/

 

Lord...I think I just threw up. That pick above all else still haunts us today. Yes, the Manziel pick devastated us severely, and continues to do so, but that Gilbert pick just cut us to the bone. How bad do we need a solid CB right now? And at #8, you're hoping for MORE than just "solid". It was considered a "good pick" at the time, and many other teams coveted Gilbert. It wasn't a reach...it was just a bad pick.

 

How do you guys feel about us trading the pick? I'm kind of at the point where I don't CARE what the trade offer is, I want to pick where we're at, and not move anywhere. I just feel like the trading down hasn't netted us the results we're looking for, and maybe we need the highest possible caliber player available. There is no "unanimous" number one QB prospect, but that could very easily change as the draft approaches. Remember when Bridgewater was the #1 pick all year, and then had a subpar pro day and all of the sudden he wasn't what people wanted? Was Carson Wentz on the radar last year in November? Possibly, but I doubt it. My guess is that Mitch Trubisky will skyrocket up the board, and will cement the status as the #1 pick...or at least the #1 QB. He's got the appropriate size, solid mobility, and other intangibles. Perhaps teams will become enamored with the physical prowess of Kizer, or the flair of Watson, but my vote is Mitch.

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CaineDeSoulis Newbie

CaineDeSoulis

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Trubisky is Mcshays and Kipers #1 qb currently

Watson's value has pretty much been killed by RG3 to be fair RG3 has set back most "Athletic" QB's for years after his draft.

I think we should take Mitch Aslong as he continues to show himself as a the top QB Available. But we wont do that. We'll trade down a little bit take a highly rated DE and then Watson and then hopefully a linemen

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Taco918 Newbie

Taco918

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PFF has us taking Mason Rudolph from Oklahoma State with our second pick in the first. First pick? Allen, Alabama.. can't disagree.

 

 

My problem with Rudolph? We already took a guy from oklahoma state with our second pick in the first. Yep, Brandon Weeden. And I think we know how that turned out. Also, Rudolph hasn't declared yet for the draft, so there's that little detail.

Nope, I'm shutting down this Rudolph talk right now. I need him, and Washington, back in Stillwater to make our run next year.

 

 

Since you guys are obviously dying for a poke, check out Chris Carson. He'd be a late round flier but the dude breaks tackles and always seems to get stronger as the game wears on.

 

Edit: In the interest of not being a total homer, I'm not positive Carson knows how to catch, especially today, so he probably won't be a three down back.

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Flugel Grand Master

Flugel

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I still remember Bill Belichick thinking and saying he likes to prioritize the middle of his defense when he selected Eric Turner at #2 overall. That idea produced so many fond memories to follow such as shutting out NE's go-to guy Ben Coates in the playoffs the day we won our last playoff game. I've seen other defenses draft Safeties in the first round like Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, Sean Taylor, Pollyneedsahaircut and Ed Reed which never made me question the wisdom.

 

If Garrett is a sure thing off the edge and he's relentless - getting him at #1 and then landing Malik Hooker with our other first round pick would be a great start in 2017.

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BrownsnMopar Explorer

BrownsnMopar

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I still remember Bill Belichick thinking and saying he likes to prioritize the middle of his defense when he selected Eric Turner at #2 overall. That idea produced so many fond memories to follow such as shutting out NE's go-to guy Ben Coates in the playoffs the day we won our last playoff game. I've seen other defenses draft Safeties in the first round like Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, Sean Taylor, Pollyneedsahaircut and Ed Reed which never made me question the wisdom.

 

If Garrett is a sure thing off the edge and he's relentless - getting him at #1 and then landing Malik Hooker with our other first round pick would be a great start in 2017.

If we can score Garrett and Hooker in 2017 OH MY!!!
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Flugel Grand Master

Flugel

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Just think of what he could have done against Sister Mary's School for the Blind.

 

Classic stuff! Can you imagine if his last name was Bosa and he was wearing a Buckeyes uniform? Fruit of the Loom would give him his own air tight underwear line...

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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I've seen other defenses draft Safeties in the first round like Earl Thomas...

 

Didn't you love him laying out Gronk with that clean shoulder to sternum hit?

 

Every once in a while we do get to see a glimpse of the game we love...

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calfoxwc Grand Master

calfoxwc

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http://walterfootball.com/draft2017S.php

  • Two top national scouts from NFC teams said that Hooker's skill set is the best they've seen from a safety since Eric Berry. They like Hooker more than Jamal Adams, Jabrill Peppers or Marcus Maye. One scout said, in his opinion, Hooker could end up being an elite safety prospect comparable to Berry or the late Sean Taylor. Many in the scouting community feel that Taylor was the best of the best in terms of safety prospects this century. Both of these scouts believe that Hooker is a future top-10 pick.

    Some other team sources said they have been impressed by Hooker, but at this point, think he would be rated behind Adams and Peppers for them. Numerous team sources believe that Hooker is going to end up being their top-rated safety for the 2017 NFL Draft.

 

That'a about Malik Hooker, obviously, a lot of us have watched him a lot. The First 2 or 3 may very well go in the first round. Malik and Jamal

are, imho, a lcok to be a pick of the Browns ini the first. Jamal was team captain, so I dont "worry" about the general character thing with

LSU players. If the Browns second pick goes later, both could be gone by the Browns second pick. Seems that these top two are in a

"very best of safeties class", and it drops from there.

 

The Browns will pick a safety with one of their two picks. I hope I can make a bet with Mr. Hoorta on it, so I can get my dollar I owe him off the books.

I'll even bet Flugels a $1.50 just for more fun.

 

Then there is Jamal Adams, LSU...

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017S.php

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Spent many, not all, but many, snaps focused on Elfein yesterday because of the buzz here about him.

 

The good:

  • at 6'3 and 300 kid looks to have an exceptionally strong core;
  • clean snapper and gets off quickly with pop and great leg drive;
  • takes great angles, many of which were begged to be taken by MSU's 4-man look, many of which were set up by initial double-team;
  • moves well, if a bit choppy, so is capable of pulling and turning corner;
  • alert and quick to react in PassPro with his feet;
  • polished posture with nice knee-bend and "seat"; and
  • can anchor even if initially knocked back a yard... or two.

The other:

  • blocks old school vs. DTs, i.e., with shoulders and forearms, depending on drive for "control";
  • uses hands on 2nd and 3rd level D, mostly keeping them inside, but not always (called for one hold IIRC).

Summary:

Very good prospect... maybe even great. To elevate conclusively I need to see:

  • Response to bigger, stronger NT/DT playing heads-up on him making him find/create angles;
  • Response to above who can hand fight and/or swim his old school efforts, i.e., does he have the upper body/hands to fight back?;
  • Results when pulls to trap and not turn up field; and
  • Ability to chip DT to aid OG before releasing to 2nd level.

I look forward to more tape time.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Good stuff - do you think he's a second rounder? or late first?

 

Thanks, cal... and Yes?

 

Really just need to see if he can do the things the MSU games left unanswered. If he can, and it's just a matter of repetition ingraining them, then it falls to who else is out there... wherever they are playing on the OL.

 

I think it was 2 or 3 OTs, mostly LTs, that came out the last couple years and blew their teams away at Center. Mitch Morse, class of '15, springs to mind. KC took him in R2 and he's started every game at Center... and at 6'6... so tall Centers can make it.

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tiamat63 Veteran

tiamat63

Posted
Posted

Spent many, not all, but many, snaps focused on Elfein yesterday because of the buzz here about him.

 

The good:

  • at 6'3 and 300 kid looks to have an exceptionally strong core;
  • clean snapper and gets off quickly with pop and great leg drive;
  • takes great angles, many of which were begged to be taken by MSU's 4-man look, many of which were set up by initial double-team;
  • moves well, if a bit choppy, so is capable of pulling and turning corner;
  • alert and quick to react in PassPro with his feet;
  • polished posture with nice knee-bend and "seat"; and
  • can anchor even if initially knocked back a yard... or two.

The other:

  • blocks old school vs. DTs, i.e., with shoulders and forearms, depending on drive for "control";
  • uses hands on 2nd and 3rd level D, mostly keeping them inside, but not always (called for one hold IIRC).

Summary:

Very good prospect... maybe even great. To elevate conclusively I need to see:

  • Response to bigger, stronger NT/DT playing heads-up on him making him find/create angles;
  • Response to above who can hand fight and/or swim his old school efforts, i.e., does he have the upper body/hands to fight back?;
  • Results when pulls to trap and not turn up field; and
  • Ability to chip DT to aid OG before releasing to 2nd level.

I look forward to more tape time.

 

 

His snap command early on in the season worried me. I'm not enough of a homer to over look that. I presume you've seen better control as the season has progressed?

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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You like 295ers in the 4-3? The only move Allen has that would work on the edge is the bull rush. And that is unlikely to work in the NFL in 1.5 seconds like it does for him now. If you made him your DE in a 4-3, we'd be sitting here in a year continuing to lament the fact that all our DEs and LBs are "specialty guys." If you're going with J. Allen, stick him at DE, and figure out once and for all whether Ogbah is an OLB or DE. Stop switching him.

 

Yes i do like big strong athletic DE's. You ever seen jj watt come off the edge from the wide 9? If hebdoesnt bull he takes the tackles outside shoulder, leaves little room to step up. And those big dudes hold the edge way better.

 

As far as allen goes he seems to have a good rip and a good swim. He would use the bull to open up the power edge moves. Im mot sold yet on allen but i see more potential in him than garrett. Garrett reminds me too muchnif clowney, those pretty finesse moves dontbtranslate to the nfl unless you have power to set them up

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tiamat63 Veteran

tiamat63

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Yes i do like big strong athletic DE's. You ever seen jj watt come off the edge from the wide 9? If hebdoesnt bull he takes the tackles outside shoulder, leaves little room to step up. And those big dudes hold the edge way better.

 

As far as allen goes he seems to have a good rip and a good swim. He would use the bull to open up the power edge moves. Im mot sold yet on allen but i see more potential in him than garrett. Garrett reminds me too muchnif clowney, those pretty finesse moves dontbtranslate to the nfl unless you have power to set them up

JJ is an exception for his size as he is a freak combination of speed and strength.

 

Allen's game isn't like Watts. But like JJ, Allen can play wide or 5 in early downs kicking inside in the nickel.

 

Also Clowney has literally no 'finese' to him. He was raw in his hand usage and counter moves. All he had was rare athletic ability and long arms with a good ability to generate power on a bullrush.

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Clevfan4life Newbie

Clevfan4life

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JJ is an exception for his size as he is a freak combination of speed and strength.

 

Allen's game isn't like Watts. But like JJ, Allen can play wide or 5 in early downs kicking inside in the nickel.

 

Also Clowney has literally no 'finese' to him. He was raw in his hand usage and counter moves. All he had was rare athletic ability and long arms with a good ability to generate power on a bullrush.

In college? Dude clowneys best tape is when ghosted around OL. They wouldnt get a hand on him. That and his speed is what had scouts salivating
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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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Posted

He got more than half of his total sacks for this year against a punching bag. If he shows out well against LSU then I will gladly apologize for understating the importance of the big game against a C-USA opponent.

 

The importance was that he is finally able to push off his left foot again, something he has been unable to do since the 1st Q of the Ark. game back 2 months ago.

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