Clevfan4life Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 OK-there are plenty of power plays, plenty of shoulder dips and plenty of pure speed. This was published Nov. 16 so go ahead and evaluate the highlights. Havent been able to watch the full video but the play that happens ~:50 is exemplary of what i thought i was detecting in previous videos. Elbows just completely folded in. He still rips away from the tackle and catches the qb stepping up, but in the nfl he's swallowed. He only gets awaybwith that at the college level where the def guys are on avg ahead of the OL. Once in the NFL those matured ol are going to eat that technique up. In a DE/OLB im looking for arms extended and holding off the tackle. Basically bench pressing his man. Thats the basics. When you have that, you can set up you outside/inside moves. But if the ol doesnt respect ur bench, he's just gonna draw you in and stall you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 <p> Still with work to do... I see Allen as our first R1; D. Bryant/Sheldon/Allen looks like a 3-4 dream DL... TCPO's Kizer at the top of R2 does it for me... a 2nd QB later? Not so much... Our Philly pick? Catch me later... Interesting composition on the Dline. At the 3 and 5 you have your one gap players great at shooting and creating havoc in the backfield and in their rush lanes. In the middle you have your classic 2 gap nose. Although Danny has upped his pressure counts and would suit just fine not having to be 0tech player... Only problem is having confidence in Bryant coming back ready to rock after being out so long. Unless of course you meant Sheldon and not Shelton. In which case I see Bryant as expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Allen is currently listed at 265. That aint 5 tech material. Not in my defense. My 5 looks like justin smith. Would love to see 4 man fronts with allen as the strong side DE and maybe orchard on the other side as the speed rush. Heck we couldveven use collins as the weak side rusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Or...is your pespective: "I am an Aggie guy, and I want the Aggie guy to go #1"? Don't get me wrong, he may be a great choice. And this defense needs a guy like that. But I think the team needs a franchise QB. This team needs a resurrection ....and only a QB, I believe can work that miracle. No honestly my perspective is that this defense can't get off the field because we have no pass rush. He is uniquely talented with a combination of speed, quickness, size and sure tackling. The less the D is out there, the more the O has shots to score and the less they have to overcome on the scoreboard. Simple math for me. Great D's create scoring opportunities. Ours could be if we could just pressure QBs into mistakes/sacks. PS-don't take my word for it. Just go check all the draft sites and see why they think he is the best player in the draft this year and why they think the Browns need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 The draft people also thought clowney would have the sack record by now. In fact Mack didn't climb up their boards until after the combine despite his wicked stupid tape which clearly showed he was at least at clowneys level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Allen is currently listed at 265. That aint 5 tech material. Not in my defense. My 5 looks like justin smith. Would love to see 4 man fronts with allen as the strong side DE and maybe orchard on the other side as the speed rush. Heck we couldveven use collins as the weak side rusher Cool but this isn't your defense and I'm failing to see how Allen is too s small for 'your' 5tech (shaded outside the tackle to be clear) but you say you want him as a SDE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beare Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 WOULD you like this 1ST RD OF draft? http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/11/23/2017-nfl-mock-draft-si-bags-myles-garrett-deshaun-watson-for-browns/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 The draft people also thought clowney would have the sack record by now. In fact Mack didn't climb up their boards until after the combine despite his wicked stupid tape which clearly showed he was at least at clowneys level This is the first year Clowney has not been injured. Apples and Oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 I would be shocked if Allen is 290. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Cool but this isn't your defense and I'm failing to see how Allen is too s small for 'your' 5tech (shaded outside the tackle to be clear) but you say you want him as a SDE... In what 3-4 do 5 techs spend most of their time in the 9? Maybe a couple times a game but for the most part they spend the game occupying gurd and tackle as best they can so the olb'ers can get home. Aldon and justin were the prototype 5tech olb'er pair. I know houston gets jj out there when they can and he just obliterated tackles outside shoulders trimming the edge. If jj was on our team and i was DC, him and dez would our DE's in the base 4-3. Those two and shelton/meder on the inside would be the sickest 4 man front in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Allen is currently listed at 265. That aint 5 tech material. Not in my defense. My 5 looks like justin smith. Would love to see 4 man fronts with allen as the strong side DE and maybe orchard on the other side as the speed rush. Heck we couldveven use collins as the weak side rusher Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290. I would be shocked if Allen is 290. Allen gets listed at 293lbs, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 265 was Allen's weight his senior year of high school according to Rivals.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Did Bosa retire already? What happened to all our Hallmark moments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Allen gets listed at 293lbs, btw. By... Bama? Cool, that's means he's 15lbs lighter. So 275-280. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Why bother when they will take Trubisky #1? Because they won't? Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!" I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list. Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton... But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do. Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290. Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile. And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor. Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11) Barksdale 34.5 C.Clark 34.5 Pasztor 33.5 Castonzo 31 Reiff 31 Ogbuehi 30.5 Free 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor. Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11) Barksdale 34.5 C.Clark 34.5 Pasztor 33.5 Castonzo 31 Reiff 31 Ogbuehi 30.5 Free 30 But PFF said Pasztor is good. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Because they won't? Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!" I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list. Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton... But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do. Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile. And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form. I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed. One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Ok my mistake, espn had him at 290. That 265 was the first link when u google him. Still, 6'3 285-290 is my ideal DE. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed. One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them. I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point. The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it. Does Mitch? We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point. The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it. Does Mitch? We'll see. General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them. I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center. But we agree, more to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 No way in hell we take a QB with the first pick, and I hope we don't with the Eagles pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them. I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center. But we agree, more to be seen. Interesting perspective T. North Dakota State is also a really good program in the sense they were winning their level of National Championships before Wentz arrived and stayed at that level when it was his time to shine. They also beat a pretty good Big 10 team (Iowa) this year without Wentz. While NDS won the National Championship in 2015 - Iowa was good enough to have a lead in the Big 10 Championship Game until the closing seconds. I can't imagine either location of program is the greatest of recruiting attractions so there's a lot to appreciate about both programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 No way in hell we take a QB with the first pick, and I hope we don't with the Eagles pick I think a lot of us share your point. Dallas and Seattle never went for the national Mock Draft faves at QB in round 1; and they're currently the teams to beat in the NFC. The unfortunate thing is when there is a shortage of supply of elite QBs like 2017 looks to be, somebody like Trubisky is probably going to go in round 1 somewhere. I would be okay parting with a 2nd round pick for him; but the reality of nobody reaching up for him seems too improbable for that. What makes a college QB so hard to peg for the next level is the type of passing game many productive college QBs are coming from don't ask them to read progressions against complicated defenses. They have a lot of pre-set area/timing throws from a predetermined 3 step, 5 step or 7 step drop with occasional bootleg/waggle pass opportunities for the QB to throw outside of pocket (frequently flooding a third of the field with 1 deep, 1 intermediate and 1 short route along with a backside receiver hitting a middle seam. In the NFL, it's mostly about who can speed read the progressions and be accurate enough to do well. RG3 can do the 7 step drop and throw a beauty to a deep 3rd for his athlete (as seen with Pryor). He can also do great with the bootleg playaction waggle passes; but he's more fragile than agile so we're still at uh-oh with him. Might as well see what we have in Hogan. Hogan's Heroes or Hogan's Zeros? Guys that are quick enough with the read can look the part of strong arm while those that hesitate get labeled as the next Colt McCoy fair or not. Then again, how fun was it for a QB to throw to rookie WRs like Mo Mass and Brian Robiskie? There's a lot of mistrust with QBs throwing to first year starters at WRs especially in a division that has had complicated and well disguised zone blitzes inexperienced players don't always see or anticipate well. Even more so if our passer is also a rookie. All our WRs this year are first year starters except for Hawkins, which explains his ranking in TD receptions on this WR quite well especially for a guy that rarely scored for us in the past. Sometimes our line gets blamed or the QB gets blamed when the passer is holding onto the ball too long for a sack while we rarely ever hear the WRs getting blamed for a wrong adjustment to a coverage leverage/scheme. Obviously that's coaching too when the success of a pass depends on timing and trust that route adjustment will be correct all the times we're not seeing these guys on the same page. Inexperience at QB invites this growing pain while inexperience on the perimeter can compound it. Then when a team coming off 3-13 football loses both Bitonio and the upgrade at Center to injury up front - here's a little salt for our wounds. I read an article about Jim Harbaugh in ESPN Magazine after he mapped Stanford's Football Progam into a winning tradition. He basically adopted the passing game he had the best luck with as an NFL QB under Lindy Infante back when he took the Colts to the playoffs. He explained that Lindy's setup equipped him with the best/quickest ways to get through his decisions he's handing off to his passers. Well, guess who recruited Andrew Luck to keep him ahead of the curve to stay? Luck did well when they changed HCs and went with more TEs as well. Harbaugh was also the first NFL coach to change the fortune/direction of Alex Smith (with passer ratings finally exceeding 90) prior to tapping the best football Kaepernick had at least early on. He's doing some good things for Michigan's passing game as well. As much as I hate typing this, Michigan may soon be an ideal program to look to for a QB with all the right training for the NFL game. What I did enjoy typing about that is Lindy Infante's QB/passing game criteria is a big reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 That kid ain't a pound under 290. Let's make a bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 No honestly my perspective is that this defense can't get off the field because we have no pass rush. He is uniquely talented with a combination of speed, quickness, size and sure tackling. The less the D is out there, the more the O has shots to score and the less they have to overcome on the scoreboard. Simple math for me. Great D's create scoring opportunities. Ours could be if we could just pressure QBs into mistakes/sacks. PS-don't take my word for it. Just go check all the draft sites and see why they think he is the best player in the draft this year and why they think the Browns need him. I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Because they won't? Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!" Last year? What the fuck does last year have to do with anything? Carson Wentz was likely considered a UDFA the year before he came out. Right here, right now...it may in fact be the Cleveland Browns FO who is saying "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out". I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list. I don't know if Trubisky is a "fast riser". He hadn't played before......the guys you mention below could be considered fast risers as well as before they got to play....before they got to be seen, they didn't get any run. Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton... But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do. So? You think the Browns need to be cautious. Well then why don't we just trade down again for a mid 1st round pick and get another Mingo or Erving? The Browns need to take a risk on a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile. And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor. Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11) Barksdale 34.5 C.Clark 34.5 Pasztor 33.5 Castonzo 31 Reiff 31 Ogbuehi 30.5 Free 30 Does this mean that he thinks Paz sucks? What about his PFF score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow. weren't you the one pushing so hard for Bosa last year, simply based upon his being ranked #1???......(yes)..... Browns have to take the best players available with every pick.....not draft to fill positions.....we need everything...... Take the surest shot....no matter what....(position) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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