Draft Talk

[Tour2ma]

kk... in essence you're saying we need to believe in the board we build.

 

I do not think there is any doubt that we will do that. Kessler is exhibits 1 thru 4 making that case.

[jiggins7919]

An interesting thought I had that could benefit us is the surprising play of Matt Barkely for the Bears. I remember laughing to myself when I saw he was the starter, but I have to admit, he's played pretty well. Nothing earth-shattering, and he's turned it over too much, but the guy has them playing competitive football, and who thought THAT would happen? I mention this because Barkley's play MIGHT be good enough for the Bears to just think twice about drafting a QB early. Bears might skip taking a QB around #4, and that could bode well for us with the Eagles' pick. Just a thought. The 49's are still awful, and they obviously need a QB. It's hard to imagine they'd pass up on a QB early, but I want to say their coach prefers defensive studs...so who knows. What would be SUPER nice is for the Jets to win another game because we KNOW they need a QB. I don't see it happening, but whatever. LOL. Never mind, Jets have 4 wins and play the Patriots and Bills. Even if Jets beat Bills, they'd still pick ahead of Eagles.

[gftChris]

kk... in essence you're saying we need to believe in the board we build.

 

I do not think there is any doubt that we will do that. Kessler is exhibits 1 thru 4 making that case.

I'm not sure that's what he's advocating. For example suppose you have the following board and grades:

 

1. Garrett - HoF

2. Allen - HoF

3. Trubisky - Perennial Pro Bowler

 

Then you take Trubisky? Even if he's not quite grading out as well as the others and the board may say slightly differently, you take him first because QB is such an important position.

 

 

Of course, it all comes down to analytics to quantify 'biggest impact' and that's what your board should be. If you're grading a player and he's mostly 10/10 on all attributes, and you give him 99/100, but he's a kicker, you don't draft him first overall, so there's inherent positional weighting involved. Same, you probably don't draft a WR first overall (unless it's megatron), or SS, or an interior OL. So you grade your college prospects out of 100 or whatever, as long as it's all normalised and we're on the same scale. Then you apply weighting like:

 

QB = 1.00

EDGE = 0.95

LT = 0.9

...

K = 0.05

P = 0.02

LS = 0.001

 

So a left tackle grading out at 90/100 is not as high on the board as a QB grading at say 83/100, but then you have an edge rusher who is 92/100 and he wins overall.

[jiggins7919]

Man, this is a total brain screw. It's so hard when you're a team that hasn't had a reliable starting QB in 17 years, but it's also difficult when you have SO many needs. Think of it THIS way. How excited are you going to be if Cody Kessler is our starting QB next year? A guy with next to zero mobility, can't take a hit, and most of all...has two concussions and a documented difficulty of staying on the field. We NEED a QB. If we take Garrett or Allen with the first pick, how certain are we that we can get a potential starter with our Eagles' pick? Can we really afford to gamble on perhaps finding our franchise QB? It's tough, and it's going to get tougher as the weeks and months go by and the draft nears. And let's not act like it's that far away...we're almost at the end of December here.

 

Listen, Jimmy Haslam has preached "staying the course", and knows that our franchise needs continuity. That being said, going 0-16 tends to place a few chinks in that armor. Fair or not, time is running out faster than maybe it should. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but losing every game certainly doesn't instill confidence, does it? Perhaps the biggest gamble, but also quickest reward, is the Jimmy Garoppolo trade option. We've traded with the Patriots a few times already, and multiple analysts have said to keep an eye on this situation. It's incredibly risky because we've all seen the Osweiler's, the Matt Flynn's, the Ryan Mallet's, and litany of others that showed SOME promise in limited time as a starter, but ultimately couldn't cut the mustard for whatever reason. The upside is obvious, as a veteran QB knows the NFL life, knows how to learn an offense, has the benefit of NFL weight training for a few years, and other things. However, the biggest upside is that it COULD be a faster turn-around time. No rookie learning curve, no adjustment to the league, and possible immediate respect of teammates.

 

In short, I have no clue what to do. LMAO.

[gftChris]

Kessler as our starter is fine. Manning and Brady have no mobility and they're grand. In fact most QBs. Not being able to take a hit is a valid point, and McCown suffers from the same, but Kessler has shown enough to be a game manager with a solid OL and D.

[Tour2ma]

I'm not sure that's what he's advocating. For example suppose you have the following board and grades:

 

1. Garrett - HoF

2. Allen - HoF

3. Trubisky - Perennial Pro Bowler

 

My position, and I assumed, jigs, is the factors you cite are all rolled into "the Board". Grade... Need... Position Weight... I'd add "confidence" to the list, but I build this into the grade. I take your HOF/PerProBowl notes as at least in part, confidence factors. Injury and character concerns would roll into "confidence" as well.

 

Where I may differ from any number of, if not all, the folks here, is how I'd use Need and Position Weight. To me they are simply tie-breakers within grade groupings.

 

If the three you list are our in our top grouping, then the tie would go to the QB. Despite lower confidence, the position weight would close the gap and break the tie. On the other hand should the grading show Garrett and Allen alone atop our board in a grouping of two, then no amount of need would make me pass over them for the QB. To do so would be to reach... to move away from BPA... and into the trap that is need.

 

All the above is determined before Draft Day. It won't impact us at #1, but another factor does emerge on Draft Day... positional runs. If a R1 run on CBs develops and we have one in our pick #33 grouping we really like, then depending on my view of later round CBs, the run might elevate my interest in him. Not to the point of jumping a late R2 prospects to 33, but within the group at 33. Of course, if there's still a mid-R1 group name on the Board, he'd trump the run.

 

 

Started to get into "Grading", but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms... and we've lots of time to time between now and draft day. So no rush...

[darren15]

Would love this to be our first 3 picks....more chance of us winning a game tho

 

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 8: Jonathan Allen, DE/DT, Alabama (A+)

Round 2 Pick 1: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)

Round 2 Pick 17: Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami (Fla.) (B+)

Round 3 Pick 1: Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State (A-)

Round 4 Pick 1: Nick Chubb, RB, Georgia (A)

Round 5 Pick 31: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (A-)

Round 6 Pick 1: Julie'n Davenport, OT, Bucknell (B-)

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

One caution would be Greco... return to full form from LizzieFrancaise is not guaranteed.

 

Hasn't Joeckel struggled throughout his rookie deal?

He has, mostly due to injury and the Cam Erving treatment. "Oh, you're a RT? Let's try you at LT. Oh, you're a LT? Let's try you at RG."

 

It's a risk, but a calculated one. Like RG3, but less to lose. I see us taking a few of those risks year after year.

[calfoxwc]

there is no way Davenport, OT, is there in the sixth round. Gee, why not just draft Garrett in the sixth round,

so you don't have to pay him so much money?

 

come on, man.

[darren15]

there is no way Davenport, OT, is there in the sixth round. Gee, why not just draft Garrett in the sixth round,

so you don't have to pay him so much money?

 

come on, man.

 

The game wont allow it ...... he would already be gone

[jiggins7919]

 

Would love this to be our first 3 picks....more chance of us winning a game tho

 

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 8: Jonathan Allen, DE/DT, Alabama (A+)

Round 2 Pick 1: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)

Round 2 Pick 17: Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami (Fla.) (B+)

Round 3 Pick 1: Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State (A-)

Round 4 Pick 1: Nick Chubb, RB, Georgia (A)

Round 5 Pick 31: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (A-)

Round 6 Pick 1: Julie'n Davenport, OT, Bucknell (B-)

 

 

No way Jamal Adams makes it to second round, right? I think I've seen him in the top ten in multiple articles.

[Tour2ma]

I always enjoy the questioning of a computer simulation's rationale for letting a player fall.

 

Right now there are probably close to 50 players with a decent amount of "1st round grades".

[LogicIsForSquares]

So let's say we go with defense in the first round and skip over taking a QB. Kizer and Trubisky are gone but you still want to draft a QB.

 

Who do you like out of the other guys?

 

-Mason Rudolph (all signs are pointing to him staying in school so this option may be off the table)

-Luke Falk

-Brad Kaaya

-Chad Kelly

-Deshaun Watson

-Davis Webb

-Pat Mahomes

- Or some other QB that may have slipped through the net

 

I haven't seen enough of the other guys to make heads or tails of who I would want.

[Tour2ma]

Always fun to see what the computer does with our draft... I took the 49ers... and somehow earned the top spot. The computer us? 14th...

 

Here's the Top Ten plus our results...

 

Round 1 Pick 1 (1) (CLE) Chargers: Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama
Round 1 Pick 2 (2) (S.F.) Cardinals: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
Round 1 Pick 3 (3) Jaguars: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M
Round 1 Pick 4 (4) Bears: Jonathan Allen, DE/DT, Alabama
Round 1 Pick 5 (5) Titans: Teez Tabor, CB, Florida
Round 1 Pick 6 (6) Jets: Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama
Round 1 Pick 7 (7) (S.D.) Browns: Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
Round 1 Pick 8 (8) Browns: Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
Round 1 Pick 9 (9) (ARI) 49ers: Malik McDowell, DT/DE, Michigan State
Round 1 Pick 10 (10) Bengals: Tim Williams, OLB/DE, Alabama

Round 2 Pick 7 (39) (S.D.) Browns: Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
Round 2 Pick 9 (41) (ARI) Browns: Marcus Williams, FS, Utah
Round 2 Pick 22 (54) (DEN) Browns: Adam Bisnowaty, OT/OG, Pittsburgh
Round 2 Pick 29 (61) (K.C.) Browns: Curtis Samuel, WR, Ohio State
Round 4 Pick 1 (97) Browns: Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma
Round 4 Pick 3 (99) (JAX) Browns: Cole Hikutini, TE, Louisville
Round 6 Pick 14 (173) (IND) Browns: James Onwualu, OLB, Notre Dame
Round 6 Pick 16 (175) (WASH) Browns: Cameron Tom, C, Southern Mississippi
Round 6 Pick 18 (177) (BALT) Browns: Jessamen Dunker, OG, Tennessee State
Round 7 Pick 4 (194) (CHI) Browns: Davon Godchaux, DT, LSU
Round 7 Pick 32 (222) (DAL) Browns: Randall Goforth, SS, UCLA

[gftChris]

So let's say we go with defense in the first round and skip over taking a QB. Kizer and Trubisky are gone but you still want to draft a QB.

 

Who do you like out of the other guys?

 

-Mason Rudolph (all signs are pointing to him staying in school so this option may be off the table)

-Luke Falk

-Brad Kaaya

-Chad Kelly

-Deshaun Watson

-Davis Webb

-Pat Mahomes

- Or some other QB that may have slipped through the net

 

I haven't seen enough of the other guys to make heads or tails of who I would want.

Of those guys? Deshaun Watson. He goes first round along with Trubisky and Kizer in my book. Outside of that, I don't know. I'm not looking for DA/Weeden/Mettenberger version 102.0. I'm looking for a guy that can read a defense, make enough downfield throws to keep the D honest and maybe pick up a first down with his feet when needed. I don't care if a guy makes a 75 yard attempt that falls incomplete.

[bbedward]

We need a QB unless we wanna bring in Jay Cutler or rely on Cody Kessler.

 

Everyone's always complaining about how there's no Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning - yea no shit. If there was we better have the #1 overall that year because whoever's there isn't going to be trading out of that spot.

[jiggins7919]

Anybody else nervous about the Browns trading down again? Our history suggests that we're going to trade at least once in the first round, and our history is less than stellar when this happens. I think we've gotten great VALUE for the trades, but we obviously haven't capitalized on the picks (understatement). If Garrett and Allen are graded out as high as we think they are, I'm sure there will be offers. Now, I don't think we'll see the same insane type of offers that are associated with "franchise QB prospects", but Garrett and Allen could definitely fetch some interest. What if we traded out of #1 and stayed in the top ten? For me, I'm so against trading down because history hasn't been kind to us, but also because I feel it's time for us to take a gamble on a highly rated player. It's too early to make a judgment on our previous draft, but I don't get the impression that fans are totally impressed. Hopefuly Ogbah and Coleman finish these last two games very strong, and I'll feel better.

[gftChris]

I don't get the idea of not trading out of fear of not using the picks well. If you think they're not going to pick the right guy, surely you prefer them to have more attempts at it?

[Canton Dawg]

That's been my bitch Chris, this FO seems to value quantity over quality.

 

This is how you accumulate a roster full of mediocre talent.

[gftChris]

That's been my bitch Chris, this FO seems to value quantity over quality.

 

This is how you accumulate a roster full of mediocre talent.

And that I can get on board with. I don't particularly favour trading down, maybe a few spots if we can pick up an extra first and at least an extra second, if not another first (like rams/rg3). But, people complain that they don't trust the FO to make the right picks, then are vehemently against them having more attempts at it, which is counter intuitive.

[tiamat63]

I'm on board trading down on our second pick. Around 15. Secure two top 25 players and an additional 2nd rounder.

[gftChris]

I'm on board trading down on our second pick. Around 15. Secure two top 25 players and an additional 2nd rounder.

Should be able to get more than that to trade down that far. We basically got that by moving from 8 to 15 this year.

[Tour2ma]

A trade always depends on the offer exceeding the value of the prospects. IMO we got great value trading the #2 to PHI last year... so so value trading the PHI #8 to TN for the #15.

 

 

 

There are almost always a small number of "special" players everyone wants to some degree who turns out to be the shiznit. Once they do then we hear endlessly on how we passed on "their guy"... on how much smarter they are than our FO... all the while never mentioning the 11 other fucksticks they've wanted over the years that bombed.

 

It gets old...

[CaineDeSoulis]

I kinda want to trade down from #1 overall at this point. Seriously drafting Garrett or Allen and putting him into a ray horton system is such a waste of talent.

[Clevfan4life]

I kinda want to trade down from #1 overall at this point. Seriously drafting Garrett or Allen and putting him into a ray horton system is such a waste of talent.

 

so lets just keep trading down and drafting mediocre (at best) talent so when the next DC comes in he's got squat to work with. I mean why break the mold right? Why start drafting talent now? seems so impulsive to me. We've got such a good thing going right now where we can't tell whether it's the players that outright suck or the coaches suck or some combo thereof.

 

Srsly lets just start drafting talent that gets shit done on the field and when other teams react to that talent we can see if our coaches put said talent in the positions to win games for this team. If we draft Garett and Horton immediately stands him up....and we all see how well Garett does those snaps with his hands down....than we can yell and scream for Horton to be let go if he doesn't fit the defense to the talent on the team. If they keep shoehorning players built for one scheme into another, than we know it's the coaches 100%.

[CaineDeSoulis]

horton has had two seasons with the browns and they both sucked your asking for a 3rd season. and he did that with ogbah at the beginning of the season and garrett is too small to play de in a 3-4

trade down secure some future picks seems like a good idea for the browns 1 player wont fix our issues..1 coach maybe but we need help at a lot of spots QB being the biggest need simply because we dont have a franchise guy on roster hell we should probably draft two QBs

maybe we can trade down and take Mitch and Fournette in the 1st

Your score is: 10648 (GRADE: A)

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 8: Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina (A+)
Round 1 Pick 11 (CAR): Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Charles Harris, DE, Missouri (B+)
Round 2 Pick 7 (S.D.): Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (A)
Round 2 Pick 11 (CAR): Marcus Williams, FS, Utah (A)
Round 2 Pick 17: Desmond King, CB, Iowa (A+)
Round 3 Pick 1: Curtis Samuel, WR, Ohio State (A)
Round 4 Pick 1: Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor (B+)
Round 5 Pick 31: Daniel Carlson, K, Auburn (A+)
Round 6 Pick 1: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (B-)

Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2018 Round 1 Pick (S.D.)
2019 Round 1 Pick

Had 2 Trades my 1,1 for SD 1st 2018 1,7 2017 and 2,7 2017
my 1,7 for carolinas 1,11 and 2,11

[tiamat63]

Somebody tell this guy we play more 4 man front than his traditional belief on what a 34 is.

 

I'm tired of explaining at this point.

[CaineDeSoulis]

you mean nickel tia...thats the word your looking for... Nickel

[Tour2ma]

Nickel is a 4-2 front... I am very sure tia knows the difference.

 

Since Collins' arrival we have played more 3-4, but prior to that our base look definitely favored the 4-3.

[tiamat63]

Nickel is a 4-2 front... I am very sure tia knows the difference.

 

Since Collins' arrival we have played more 3-4, but prior to that our base look definitely favored the 4-3.

When we haven't subbed out the bigs it's been 33 with Collins on the weakside in odd fronts.

 

Needless to say, aside from Danny, we have no player in which you say 'this is what we're committing to'. Even then, that type of mentality is only dominant on the offensive side of the ball.