AJ McCarron

[LogicIsForSquares]

4 hours ago, wargograw said:

I don't understand where you're going with this. First the only reason that anyone speaks positively about Joe Thomas is because he's a stud. Now I guess you're saying there are players people like who suck (who are they?). 

Keep whining like a woman. It will definitely improve this franchise. 

You were saying that people only like players of Joe’s caliber. Sucking as a player isn’t tolerated by any fan base. There is an area between great and terrible, Rainman.

Being critical of a regime that is producing garbage results and at least laughing at the situation > nagging grown men about how they should post on an internet forum. No amount of sunshine pumping and turd polishing by the fan base is going to change the product. 

[jiggins7919]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

You lost me with Mayfield and Jackson...  That Kizer sucks,well....  

Steve, Hue has no clue what any QB is worth....  RG III earth movin' Griffin, and just trust me on Kessler. 

It's VERY early, but I'm quite fond of Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson is tantalizing. Lamar is also growing as a passer, although admittedly he still has a LONG way to go. The good news for him is that he's trending in the right way and it's obvious the physical skills are there. I believe he'd greatly benefit from another year in school but I don't see it happening. Louisville doesn't have a defense or offensive line. He'd be crazy to return. It's not a Deshaun Watson scenario where Lamar could return to try and win a championship. Louisville just isn't that talented. 

Lamar will be the most controversial QB coming out of the draft. Some people will love him, others will stay away. I can tell you that Lamar owes Deshaun Watson a great deal of money because teams will look at what Watson did, and be extremely hesitant to pass on the Louisville QB. I haven't done a full analysis of Lamar yet, but the one thing I want to delve into is whether or not he can pass the ball with anticipation. THAT'S very important in the NFL game, and it's something Kizer really struggles with for us. Can Lamar only throw when he sees a receiver open, or can he throw with anticipation when the guy WILL BE open? 

I fear our recent experience with Manziel will prohibit us from drafting Baker Mayfield, and that could be a mistake. I really don't love Darnold or Rosen, and I'm definitely not sold on Allen from Wyoming. There's no doubt Lamar Jackson would be electrifying to watch, but I do worry about him staying healthy and possessing the aforementioned ability to throw with anticipation. No single QB comes without significant question marks, and our scouting department will really have to shine this offseason. Can you imagine Lamar Jackson in a Browns uniform? That guy would be a complete nightmare to stop. I realize everyone in the NFL is fast, but Lamar is a different animal. He can literally go from a standstill to full speed in 2 steps, and that's dangerous. 

Anyway, we have 7 months to discuss QBs, so no reason to rush it. For the people who still believe Kizer can be the answer....I salute you. I personally think he has no chance, but I respect all other opinions. Kizer currently has 3 TD passes and 11 INTs I think. I'm not sure I've EVER seen numbers that awful, have you? Somebody recently mentioned Kizer's nice touchdown pass to Corey Coleman as an example of Kizer possessing the ability to throw Tds in the red zone. Ummm....that was the 1st game of the year buddy. Anybody else remember his other 2 TD passes? It's not too difficult to remember. He had like a 2 yard pass to Njoku from play-action when Njoku was wide open, and the other pass was to Britt and was actually a terrific throw and catch. Only problem was it looked like complete LUCK. Kizer basically did a "no-look pass" and Britt accidentally came down it for the score. Let's just say it's not a pass Kizer is going to replicate again. 

3 touchdown passes. THREE. *sigh*

[Nero]

The only good thing about Kizer is that he will have an 'all kind of situation' evaluation. We will know how he plays with butter finger receivers, little or no running game, with migraine, after being benched, recovering his position, with real NFL caliber WRs (if Coleman and Josh play together at their expected level)... 

The only thing that by the looks won't change is that on this half season he'll have the same coach making the calls. 

These 8 games will say if he stays as QB or becomes a backup. And for me it's a pitty because he has been put in a difficult situation: he's 21 and has a coach desperate looking for a win, not a consistent run game, terrible receivers, no veteran QB, no Offensive Coordinator... I mean, a QB has to be able to manage all that, but being 21 and on your first year? NFL gives a narrow opportunity arc (if that exists in English, lol) and this guy's hasn't been the prettiest.

[wargograw]

2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

You were saying that people only like players of Joe’s caliber. Sucking as a player isn’t tolerated by any fan base. There is an area between great and terrible, Rainman.

Being critical of a regime that is producing garbage results and at least laughing at the situation > nagging grown men about how they should post on an internet forum. No amount of sunshine pumping and turd polishing by the fan base is going to change the product. 

Actually you were saying that people only like players of Joe's caliber. Yes there is an area between great and terrible. And the guys we have that are in that area get told they suck so much they actually believe it. 

If grown men didn't act like children, I wouldn't have to. Sunshine pumping may not change the product, but whining will only make it worse.

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

Actually you were saying that people only like players of Joe's caliber. Yes there is an area between great and terrible. And the guys we have that are in that area get told they suck so much they actually believe it. 

If grown men didn't act like children, I wouldn't have to. Sunshine pumping may not change the product, but whining will only make it worse.

Yes that is definitely what I said. All players must be Joe Thomas caliber. Or....maybe I gave an example of a good player that people don't bag on. If a player's fragile self esteem can't handle scrutiny then they weren't going to make it anyway. I am seriously seeing a generation gap or some sort of disconnect with how you grew up in how you perceive life compared to everyone else.  Internet back patting to a scrub is not going to make them all of a sudden not a scrub. Likewise, someone being critical of a good player will not make them fail. If so, they are made of Charmin. It appears that the majority of folks here grew up in "no bull sheit" environments where failure wasn't rewarded with "aww you did your best" . 

Being critical of failure should inform those in charge that the consumers aren't happy with the product. Constantly telling a bad restaurant that their food is good does not compel them to make a better tasting product. But I guess you would just give them positive yelp reviews in the hopes that it would raise their self esteem instead of being better at their jobs.

[stillmotion]

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

RG III earth movin' Griffin

Rg3 did shake the earth. Hue was right.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, wargograw said:

Actually you were saying that people only like players of Joe's caliber. Yes there is an area between great and terrible. And the guys we have that are in that area get told they suck so much they actually believe it. 

If grown men didn't act like children, I wouldn't have to. Sunshine pumping may not change the product, but whining will only make it worse.

Either will have zero effect on the product. Not liking 1-23 is human nature.

[stillmotion]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Either will have zero effect on the product. Not liking 1-23 is human nature.

it's fine hoorta, some people are just completely content being stagnant in life, and accept losing.

Not people like you and I.

[Unsympathetic]

Link to analysis of trade

"This is just a matter of getting to a deal too late in the process," Brown said.

 

Just as I said pages ago.. Errors in the PROCESS of the trade because of time.

[stillmotion]

5 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

"This is just a matter of getting to a deal too late in the process," Brown said.

 

And Jimmy meddling and being unsure and Sashi being like, yeah, f#$% that, I want to keep those draft picks to trade for more draft picks

[The Gipper]

Actually yes Joe Thomas should be the expectation for anybody drafted number 1. At least high-level productivity and trips to the Pro Bowl for anybody drafted in the first round.

WSS

We have a whopping one player on this team who was drafted number 1, and he's been pretty good. 

(Garrett?  Not sure I would go that far...yet)

I think Steve means if we draft any player very high....be it at #1 or #12.....we SHOULD expect Pro Bowl Caliber play out of that person...no matter the position.

And I agree.......but what have we gotten say...with any pick we have taken in the top 12? Here it is:

Couch #1

Courtney Brown #1

Gerard Warren #3

K2 #6

Braylon #3

Joe Thomas #3

Haden #7

Richardson #3

Mingo #6

Gilbert #8

Shelton #12

Garrett #1

Now...where are the consistent Pro Bowlers in that group?  Well, obviously JT with 10.  Haden had 2,   and Braylon and K2 had one each.

Mixed results, but  to a certain extent, these guys have been a bowl full of suckotash.  

It may be a bit early for Shelton and Garrett. 

And now....next year it looks like we may be in line for a couple of more Top 10-12 picks.

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, wargograw said:

Sunshine pumping may not change the product, but whining will only make it worse.

We're 1-23...can it really get any worse??

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

We're 1-23...can it really get any worse??

0-24?

[Canton Dawg]

16 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

0-24?

How much of a difference between 1-23 & 0-24?

[Westside Steve]

25 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

How much of a difference between 1-23 & 0-24?

1?

 

WSS

[stillmotion]

57 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

How much of a difference between 1-23 & 0-24?

Big Difference. Wouldn't of had Hue Jackson and the players crying and rejoicing when we won that one game.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

How much of a difference between 1-23 & 0-24?

Is this a trick question?   You want me to use "new math"

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

How much of a difference between 1-23 & 0-24?

Is this a trick question?   You want me to use "new math"

[TexasAg1969]

So two times 27 = 27 twice (for double post)?

Is that a trick answer?

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

So two times 27 = 27 twice (for double post)?

Is that a trick answer?

K-k-keep u-u-up w-w-with m-my-my st-st-st-uttering.

[TexasAg1969]

Just now, The Gipper said:

K-k-keep u-u-up w-w-with m-my-my st-st-st-uttering.

You have utters too? Never could have guessed that. (.)(.)

[Canton Dawg]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

1?

 

WSS

Let me rephrase that question.

If you paid 99 cents vs $1 dollar for an item, is that a significant difference?

 

[wargograw]

15 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Yes that is definitely what I said. All players must be Joe Thomas caliber. Or....maybe I gave an example of a good player that people don't bag on. If a player's fragile self esteem can't handle scrutiny then they weren't going to make it anyway. I am seriously seeing a generation gap or some sort of disconnect with how you grew up in how you perceive life compared to everyone else.  Internet back patting to a scrub is not going to make them all of a sudden not a scrub. Likewise, someone being critical of a good player will not make them fail. If so, they are made of Charmin. It appears that the majority of folks here grew up in "no bull sheit" environments where failure wasn't rewarded with "aww you did your best" . 

Being critical of failure should inform those in charge that the consumers aren't happy with the product. Constantly telling a bad restaurant that their food is good does not compel them to make a better tasting product. But I guess you would just give them positive yelp reviews in the hopes that it would raise their self esteem instead of being better at their jobs.

And it's a horrible example. Not everyone is going to be Joe Thomas. And let me remind you that your way has been 20 years of failure. So congrats I guess? Quite the resume. I look at fanbases like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Dallas, New England and when a guy isn't performing well they don't bag on him 10% of what we do. Culture matters. 

Stop saying "internet this" and that. You know I'm referring to a general cultural thing. Internet posts are just indicative of it, not the thing itself. Try to keep up. 

I'm sure the first time your baby tried to walk and fell you told him he sucked and should go live somewhere else. That is a much better analogy than that incoherent Yelp review poppySock.

14 hours ago, stillmotion said:

it's fine hoorta, some people are just completely content being stagnant in life, and accept losing.

Not people like you and I.

Yeah I'd be much more of a winner if I wanted to fire everyone just so we could keep losing, like we have for 20 years. Kudos to you man. 

[stillmotion]

3 hours ago, wargograw said:

Yeah I'd be much more of a winner if I wanted to fire everyone just so we could keep losing, like we have for 20 years. Kudos to you man. 

again i said Sashi needs to be demoted, not fired, yet you put words in my mouth and create false narratives in order to try and make your weak argument stronger.

"The Process" is far from perfect and Sashi needs to let someone who knows how to draft, draft instead of him and Mr. Baseball.

[LogicIsForSquares]

5 hours ago, wargograw said:

And it's a horrible example. Not everyone is going to be Joe Thomas. And let me remind you that your way has been 20 years of failure. So congrats I guess? Quite the resume. I look at fanbases like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Dallas, New England and when a guy isn't performing well they don't bag on him 10% of what we do. Culture matters. 

Stop saying "internet this" and that. You know I'm referring to a general cultural thing. Internet posts are just indicative of it, not the thing itself. Try to keep up. 

I'm sure the first time your baby tried to walk and fell you told him he sucked and should go live somewhere else. That is a much better analogy than that incoherent Yelp review poppySock.

Ah the method that every other dumpster team has used to get out of the dump. Yes, total failure for sure. Those other 31 franchises that use normal methods just don’t have the knowledge of Sashi. Get the Shmuck out. We already determined that you think of the NFL within the time frame of 10 years.

Do you think this fan base has only liked Joe Thomas? There are players in between the dog turds and a hall of famer. 

Yes, mocking a baby learning to walk = being critical of an adult millionaire being bad at their job.

Apparently it is an internet thing because you were trying to get people to modify how they post because they were saying meanie words about the FO of a 1-23 operation. Sashi the Great and Powerful should be able to hack it. Unless part of the process fails due to negativity on The Browns Board. We are in uncharted territory with record and FO so it may be a metric.

Beginning to think you and London might be Sashi and Paul.

[Unsympathetic]

4 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Those other 31 franchises that use normal methods just don’t have the knowledge of Sashi.

1) The Browns have done what you proposed since 1999.. and have failed.  Under 2 years later you want to stop -- because it's no less successful than anything else?

2) Burden's on you to prove exactly what is abnormal about Browns' decision-making... because all the proof shows that 100% of teams use analytics.  Yes, all 32 teams.  Not some, not part, not half -- all of them. The link goes through each team in detail, describing the GM-HC-FO utilization.

 

"Normal methods" in the NFL incorporate analytics at all stages of player evaluation.  Time to stop pretending there's something magically different about Berea.

[LogicIsForSquares]

5 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

1) Those "normal methods" are exactly what Browns have done since 1999.  Your answer is exactly what has failed for almost 2 decades.. and now under 2 years later you want to stop -- because it's no less successful than anything else?

2) Burden's on you to prove exactly what is abnormal about Browns' decision-making... because all the proof shows that 100% of teams use analytics.  Yes, all 32 teams.  Not some, not part, not half -- all of them.

I wasn’t referring to analytics. I am not a stats-phobe. But not every team that has rebuilt has gone through and stripped any talent left on the team then strictly only went by analytics. There appear to be no talent evaluators worth a damn in house.

[Unsympathetic]

3 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

 no talent evaluators

Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.

 

Instead of asserting there's some "other" thing that Browns could magically do after which endless riches would result, perhaps it's time to consider that success in the NFL just might be tough.

[D Bone]

1 minute ago, Unsympathetic said:

Talent evaluation is done via analytics ---- period.

 Um , no. 

[Unsympathetic]

Show your counterexample.