AJ McCarron

[Tour2ma]

First... Pluck Jimmy G...

Second... I liked AJ as much as anyone here coming out of Bama, but a 2plus a 3 was too much.

Other random thoughts....

• So Sashi did his job, sent the paperwork to Cincinnati to sign and forward,and then went home? And It's his fault?
• Ever cross anyone else's mind that Cin was messing with Hue?
• Ever occur to anyone that Hue told the FO that he could win with Kess? Then Kizer? That now Hue is panicking?

On November 2, 2017 at 2:10 AM, LondonBrown said:

That’s my concern rather than theory, the quotes are out there from Jimmeh that the 2018 season was the one they were looking at back when they blew it up in 2016.

And here we are halfway through 2017 and everything suggests he wanted to throw away two draft picks over the front offices heads before we’ve even had the bye weekend.

IF it’s the case he’s already backing off the original plan and meddling once again in team affairs then the Browns have no chance while he is owner. Nothing good will ever happen here under Haslam. 

Yup... That is the worst scenario by far...

But as for London Bridge... I bought that whilst in your town... In McD's right after we  exchanged items. So quit trying to peddle it.

[BaconHound]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

First... Pluck Jimmy G...

Second... I liked AJ as much as anyone here coming out of Bama, but a 2plus a 3 was too much.

Other random thoughts....

• So Sashi did his job, sent the paperwork to Cincinnati to sign and forward,and then went home? And It's his fault?
• Ever cross anyone else's mind that Cin was messing with Hue?
• Ever occur to anyone that Hue told the FO that he could win with Kess? Then Kizer? That now Hue is panicking?

Yup... That is the worst scenario by far...

But as for London Bridge... I bought that whilst in your town... In McD's right after we  exchanged items. So quit trying to peddle it.

His job is to make sure the trade is finalized.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, BaconHound said:

His job is to make sure the trade is finalized.

All we had to do was Cc the league on the email to the Bengals.  The paperwork doesn't have to be submitted right at that moment.  The emails to the league, from each team, have to match in the details.  And then when the paperwork is submitted by each team it needs to also match.

Like many, I'm glad we screwed up because I didn't want McCarron.  (and it WAS US that screwed up...because....if you want something done right, do it yourself)

[wargograw]

On 11/3/2017 at 5:28 AM, LogicIsForSquares said:

This is not dissimilar to when you tried to chastise everyone because somehow people saying meanie words on a message board was contributing to Justin Gilbert sucking. It turned out that he just sucked. Our undeserved praise would have done nothing. The fans weren’t creating the news, they were just reporting it. Sashi and Co are 1-23. I have a feeling he will follow Gilbert’s trajectory.

I'm still right. The vast majority of players we've had this decade prove me so. You found one guy to support your point. Congrats. You used to be better than this. 

23 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

DBN's description of the McCarron last-minute work show that Cleveland DID THEIR JOB RIGHT and that indeed it was Cincy's FO who didn't properly forward Cleveland's paperwork to the NFL.

My guess is that the Browns and Bengals agreed on the steps they'd do ["I'll send you this, you sign& forward it on, OK? Great! [hangup]] .. and then the Bengals immediately did something different.  They didn't forward ANYTHING browns-related!  Cin just sent in their own signed papers, didn't include anything from Cleveland in what they sent to NFL.

So.... just as I said the day it happened, it was a process issue and not a "kill them all with fire" situation.

 

I'm sure now that each and every person who was immediately certain that "Everyone in Browns FO should be fired" will change their minds and realize the objectively false belief they selected..

 

Or not!

 No one will eat crow on this. Of that, you can be sure. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

40 minutes ago, wargograw said:

I'm still right. The vast majority of players we've had this decade prove me so. You found one guy to support your point. Congrats. You used to be better than this. 

You are still right that if fans back or don’t back a player or coach that it will somehow determine their performance? Please show me where positive tweets or message board posts miraculously turned a player or coach’s career around. If a player couldn’t hack the scrutiny in Cleveland, they would hang them self if they ever played in NY or Philly.

I bet you believe that likes on social media will cure a kid’s cancer.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

13 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

And if they wanted to do it differently, that's fine too.  Point is... Per current league definitions, all teams have agreed that there is NO paperwork standard.  So on each trade both sides have to determine BOTH the paperwork sequence in addition to the deal.

Teams agreed, and the Bengals didn't do what they had just agreed to do.  That's a very different issue than debating whether the process is optimal or not.

I wasn't aware of this. 

I still believe that if the Browns were serious about this deal, they would have just sent in their own god damn paperwork.  

But if the standard set in the NFL is no standard at all, well that opens up things up for blame all around.

[jiggins7919]

18 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

BS.

If McCarron is your only hope, then you're already gone. We already tried to get JG and were rejected.. i doubt anyone had any idea the 2 was all it would take.

I never said he was my only hope. Our "only hope" for making offensive progress was to find a new qb. 

[flyingfooldoug]

It's been said that winning the deal is more important to this FO than winning games. 

 

[Unsympathetic]

20 hours ago, The Gipper said:

So....you are saying that there was a conspiracy.....but it was not perpetrated by the Browns FO who basically objected to the trade and sabotaged it......but it was by the Bengals FO...who really didn't want to make the trade,

 

NO.

 

Of course Sashi objected, but after he was overruled I bet he did as he was told.. because this, of all times, was not worth losing his gig.  So, the teams agreed to the trade and had to then agree on how to send the paperwork.  However, the Bungles didn't execute what they had agreed on the call.  It really shouldn't matter who precisely sends the email attachment with Berea signatures -- just tell them to look for someone from "@browns" or whatever.

Intent either way doesn't matter ------ this was all about the process of executing the trade.  Browns have done a lot of trades recently -- objectively, they're experienced.

it makes sense Browns don't have a single person to call/email all items with signatures because that's too low-level for Sashi and they need coverage in case someone is sick/on vacation. So they would tell Bengals to look for an email from "our office" and not "from Jeff" or whoever.  The fact that Bungles didn't understand this is....... their fault.

[TexasAg1969]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:48 AM, The Gipper said:

I still would have liked to see him  in a real game.   I mean, really....how much more suckitude could he have brought us than what we have had?

They kept Hogan instead of him?   They could have stashed Hogan on the PS, give B.O. a tryout....and if is what we thought he was....we could have crowned/cut him.   We would have been no worse off.  

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Well at least McCarron was excited to come here. Since he will be a FA (being contested by  bungles) we should follow up after the season is over and sign him up without trading away draft picks. This article says he was glad he was getting his shot to start for an NFL team.

http://www.wcpo.com/sports/football/bengals/fay-bengals-aj-mccarron-regroup-after-trade-fiasco-with-cleveland-browns

[Bigalow80]

Browns are getting the you "screwed this trade treatment" but the Bengals tried to change the language in the contract!!!  WTF?!  The trade would have never happened anyway because the language in the paperwork didn't match up. Not to mention, Hue overpaid for Carson Palmer years ago and set the Oakland franchise back because of it. He tried to do it again with the Browns by undercutting the FO. Maybe Sashi did sabotage this deal, but in actuality,  it was the best thing for this organization. That price was ridiculous. Not to mention, DEE HASLAM has ANY SAY in the Football operations is just Bull Sheet!! If there is one thing that has pissed me off from this season, that's it. Right there. DEE F*&*&^G Haslam has ANY say in how this team runs it's football operations, is absolute BS.  I'm sorry. This has become a reality tv show because of the Haslam's, not the FO. Hire a football czar to overrule the damn Haslams, not the FO. Their inability to have any sort of patience is what keeps screwing this organization. It's going to happen again. The current FO told everyone their plan was to burn this thing to the ground and rebuild it in 3 years. They are 1.5 years into it. NO kidding they are not that good, because that was the plan. Everyone says they missed on draft picks. yes, and they told you that is why they want so damn many draft picks. So even if they play the percentages, the odds are they are going to get some players out of it. I would say, outside of passing on Wentz, they haven't really missed except on WR's. Just about everyone of their top picks has shown legitimate potential. But they are all rookies or 2nd year players. It takes time to develop. There is a reason you have to be 3 years removed from HS to play in the NFL. Bodies and Minds have to learn to adapt and that is where the browns are at right now. If Kizer goes out and lights it up, where is the band wagon going to line up? JG was never an option for the browns. There are numerous reports out now that have basically said BB was NEVER going to trade him inside the AFC and certainly not the Browns. The browns tried multiple times to get him both now and at the draft. Not to mention, the patriots are smart enough to know that if they really wanted the BEST VALUE, all they had to do was call the Browns. Does anyone really think that is what happened here? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The patriots got a second pick and shipped him out of the AFC on purpose. 

[wargograw]

On 11/5/2017 at 1:01 AM, LogicIsForSquares said:

You are still right that if fans back or don’t back a player or coach that it will somehow determine their performance? Please show me where positive tweets or message board posts miraculously turned a player or coach’s career around. If a player couldn’t hack the scrutiny in Cleveland, they would hang them self if they ever played in NY or Philly.

I bet you believe that likes on social media will cure a kid’s cancer.

This fanbase is NEVER positive, so how could i? I can, however, show you guy after guy after guy that drowned in negativity. 

[The Gipper]

On 11/5/2017 at 8:26 AM, flyingfooldoug said:

It's been said that winning the deal is more important to this FO than winning games. 

 

That may be a fair statement.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, wargograw said:

This fanbase is NEVER positive, so how could i? I can, however, show you guy after guy after guy that drowned in negativity. 

Can you point to some things that the Browns fanbase should be positive about?    Go ahead, do it.

[Mark O]

33 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Can you point to some things that the Browns fanbase should be positive about?    Go ahead, do it.

We have some nice stats to make us feel better about being 1-23.  

[Canton Dawg]

6 minutes ago, Mark O said:

We have some nice stats to make us feel better about being 1-23.  

Yeah, I hear we're pretty good against the run...too bad everyone passes against us.

[The Gipper]

21 minutes ago, Mark O said:

We have some nice stats to make us feel better about being 1-23.  

We would have, right now, the #2 and the #7 picks in the draft.  (maybe the Browns are better off without the #1 pick)

[Westside Steve]

18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

We would have, right now, the #2 and the #7 picks in the draft.  (maybe the Browns are better off without the #1 pick)

Of course we are. If San Francisco goes number one they already have quarterback. Unless the idiots in the front office fumble this draft as well.

And to be clear I was kind of willing to accept that this is some ridiculous long tank for pics plan, but with the seeming panic at the ownership level it doesn't seem so.

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

6 hours ago, wargograw said:

This fanbase is NEVER positive, so how could i? I can, however, show you guy after guy after guy that drowned in negativity. 

Yes I am sure they wallowed in it and wept every night about mean posts on a messageboard. It was the catalyst for them being awful. Or.....just maybe that particular player sucked and people in Cleveland don't sugar coat anything. Outside of Ghoolie, who hates everyone on the team, who have you seen who has just bagged on Joe Thomas? If anything, he is revered in Cleveland. It definitely has nothing to do with Pro Bowls and being a good player. Nope. Not at all.

[Tacosman]

3 hours ago, Mark O said:

We have some nice stats to make us feel better about being 1-23.  

the nice stats in some areas on a superficial level only are just a product of parts making up a whole.  It's kinda like how when a pt is shot in the chest and bleeding out their blood pressure goes down and they are no longer hypertensive lmao...browns sunshine pumpers would look at that situation and say "see, big improvements in health.  Blood pressure is much better!"

[Unsympathetic]

Cut the gossip on the Sashi press conference

Underneath that link is the entire text. Seriously, people, if you want to invent your own conspiracy theory, there's a forum for that.  It's called the politics forum.

 

I still think McCarron sucks a bag of donkey fingers and isn't worth a 3 let alone a 2 and a 3.  Besides, Hue's record in evaluating QB talent is questionable to say the least.  Go look at what he paid to get Palmer for Oakland - a 1 and a 2 for a guy who was retired at the time and was at best worth a 5 and a 6.  And Hue called it the "greatest trade in football history."  Tellingly, that same season it lost Hue his job.. and would have done the same here when McCarron would have proceeded to be just as erratic as Kizer but without the arm cannon.

[Dutch Oven]

13 hours ago, wargograw said:

This fanbase is NEVER positive, so how could i? I can, however, show you guy after guy after guy that drowned in negativity. 

 

[stillmotion]

8 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

And Hue called it the "greatest trade in football history."

Maybe Palmer shook the earth too?

[wargograw]

15 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Can you point to some things that the Browns fanbase should be positive about?    Go ahead, do it.

First year players that are playing fairly well for their age but not yet Tom Brady. But instead we whine.

11 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Yes I am sure they wallowed in it and wept every night about mean posts on a messageboard. It was the catalyst for them being awful. Or.....just maybe that particular player sucked and people in Cleveland don't sugar coat anything. Outside of Ghoolie, who hates everyone on the team, who have you seen who has just bagged on Joe Thomas? If anything, he is revered in Cleveland. It definitely has nothing to do with Pro Bowls and being a good player. Nope. Not at all.

Yes, Joe Thomas should be the normative expectation for all draftees. And this is why we suck....

[jiggins7919]

The people who think McCarron completely sucks are crazy, just like the people who think he's GOOD are nuts. Nobody knows because he hasn't played too much, but here's what I know:  AJ McCarron is better than anything we have, and while that's a pretty low bar to crawl over, it still would've been significant for our team. It would've at least breathed life into a fan base and team with very little hope. That's what really hurts the most. The silver lining is obviously we didn't sacrifice those high picks, but let's be honest...how much faith do you have in our front office to make the right selections anyway? 

McCarron could've at least gotten the ball to Coleman or especially Gordon if the planets align and he can stay sober. Kizer isn't going to get the ball to these guys consistently because he can't THROW consistently...regardless of who is out there. We've had multiple times when our scrubs were open and Kizer screwed up, so why would it matter if more talented people are open? Don't underestimate how terrible Kizer's playing right now. It's HISTORICALLY awful. He's limited to short passes and the occasional deep shot, but he's not attempting mid-range passes over the middle or down the seam because he knows he'll turn it over and get benched. There are two passes that really demonstrate who Kizer is as a QB, and both were supposed to go to Higgins, both in the red zone. The first one was a slant over the middle where Higgins won his route and had several steps on his guy. In the NFL, it's considered WIDE OPEN. Kizer missed by 6-8 feet and the ball was picked off. When we REALLY needed the TD OR THE FG. The second example was the pick on 1st down I believe when Higgins ran a terrific route and again had several steps deep in the red zone. Kizer missed by about 8 feet HIGH and the ball was again easily picked. This was a route that was reported to have been executed to perfection TWICE in practice that week, yet when it mattered Kizer couldn't deliver. What's worth noting is that Kizer didn't just miss, everyone MISSES, but he missed by a MILE in pro football standards. Additionally, he missed high, and he missed way behind....so it's not just a matter of missing one way or the other, he's missing everywhere. That's a definite sign of an extremely inaccurate thrower, and basically the kiss of death for an NFL QB. 

Our receiving Corp has taken a great deal of flack, and rightfully so, but there's nothing they can do if the ball is thrown 8 feet off the mark. Think about just how frustrating that would be to work so hard to get open but to not have the CHANCE to touch the rock, let alone catch it. Yes they've dropped tons, yes they've failed to get open too much, and yes it's been tough without legit playmakers, but they deserve a chance to play with someone who can actually get them the ball consistently. This is their livelihood and they can't control what crappy qb is behind center. Higgins should have AT LEAST 3 more tds, and Njoku and Dreggs should have several more as well. For my qb, I want the best combination of accuracy and mobility. And right now that's Baker Mayfield, with Lamar Jackson staying in the back of my mind. 

[Westside Steve]

5 hours ago, wargograw said:

First year players that are playing fairly well for their age but not yet Tom Brady. But instead we whine.

Yes, Joe Thomas should be the normative expectation for all draftees. And this is why we suck....

Actually yes Joe Thomas should be the expectation for anybody drafted number 1. At least high-level productivity and trips to the Pro Bowl for anybody drafted in the first round.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

The people who think McCarron completely sucks are crazy, just like the people who think he's GOOD are nuts. Nobody knows because he hasn't played too much, but here's what I know:  AJ McCarron is better than anything we have, and while that's a pretty low bar to crawl over, it still would've been significant for our team. It would've at least breathed life into a fan base and team with very little hope. That's what really hurts the most. The silver lining is obviously we didn't sacrifice those high picks, but let's be honest...how much faith do you have in our front office to make the right selections anyway? 

McCarron could've at least gotten the ball to Coleman or especially Gordon if the planets align and he can stay sober. Kizer isn't going to get the ball to these guys consistently because he can't THROW consistently...regardless of who is out there. We've had multiple times when our scrubs were open and Kizer screwed up, so why would it matter if more talented people are open? Don't underestimate how terrible Kizer's playing right now. It's HISTORICALLY awful. He's limited to short passes and the occasional deep shot, but he's not attempting mid-range passes over the middle or down the seam because he knows he'll turn it over and get benched. There are two passes that really demonstrate who Kizer is as a QB, and both were supposed to go to Higgins, both in the red zone. The first one was a slant over the middle where Higgins won his route and had several steps on his guy. In the NFL, it's considered WIDE OPEN. Kizer missed by 6-8 feet and the ball was picked off. When we REALLY needed the TD OR THE FG. The second example was the pick on 1st down I believe when Higgins ran a terrific route and again had several steps deep in the red zone. Kizer missed by about 8 feet HIGH and the ball was again easily picked. This was a route that was reported to have been executed to perfection TWICE in practice that week, yet when it mattered Kizer couldn't deliver. What's worth noting is that Kizer didn't just miss, everyone MISSES, but he missed by a MILE in pro football standards. Additionally, he missed high, and he missed way behind....so it's not just a matter of missing one way or the other, he's missing everywhere. That's a definite sign of an extremely inaccurate thrower, and basically the kiss of death for an NFL QB. 

Our receiving Corp has taken a great deal of flack, and rightfully so, but there's nothing they can do if the ball is thrown 8 feet off the mark. Think about just how frustrating that would be to work so hard to get open but to not have the CHANCE to touch the rock, let alone catch it. Yes they've dropped tons, yes they've failed to get open too much, and yes it's been tough without legit playmakers, but they deserve a chance to play with someone who can actually get them the ball consistently. This is their livelihood and they can't control what crappy qb is behind center. Higgins should have AT LEAST 3 more tds, and Njoku and Dreggs should have several more as well. For my qb, I want the best combination of accuracy and mobility. And right now that's Baker Mayfield, with Lamar Jackson staying in the back of my mind. 

The only caveat to AJ McCarron is that if Hue Jackson wanted the guy here he, above anybody else in Cleveland, has worked with him for a long time and would probably have a better idea of his worth.

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

6 hours ago, wargograw said:

Yes, Joe Thomas should be the normative expectation for all draftees. And this is why we suck....

You can look back and find players who are well liked who weren’t on Joe’s career track. But that doesn’t fit your boohoo “they are all meanies in Cleveland” narrative. 

Keep hitting like, I heard it will save African kids from starving.

[wargograw]

16 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Actually yes Joe Thomas should be the expectation for anybody drafted number 1. At least high-level productivity and trips to the Pro Bowl for anybody drafted in the first round.

WSS

We have a whopping one player on this team who was drafted number 1, and he's been pretty good. 

16 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

You can look back and find players who are well liked who weren’t on Joe’s career track. But that doesn’t fit your boohoo “they are all meanies in Cleveland” narrative. 

Keep hitting like, I heard it will save African kids from starving.

I don't understand where you're going with this. First the only reason that anyone speaks positively about Joe Thomas is because he's a stud. Now I guess you're saying there are players people like who suck (who are they?). 

Keep whining like a woman. It will definitely improve this franchise. 

[hoorta]

19 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

The people who think McCarron completely sucks are crazy, just like the people who think he's GOOD are nuts. Nobody knows because he hasn't played too much, but here's what I know:  AJ McCarron is better than anything we have, and while that's a pretty low bar to crawl over, it still would've been significant for our team. It would've at least breathed life into a fan base and team with very little hope. That's what really hurts the most. The silver lining is obviously we didn't sacrifice those high picks, but let's be honest...how much faith do you have in our front office to make the right selections anyway? 

McCarron could've at least gotten the ball to Coleman or especially Gordon if the planets align and he can stay sober. Kizer isn't going to get the ball to these guys consistently because he can't THROW consistently...regardless of who is out there. We've had multiple times when our scrubs were open and Kizer screwed up, so why would it matter if more talented people are open? Don't underestimate how terrible Kizer's playing right now. It's HISTORICALLY awful. He's limited to short passes and the occasional deep shot, but he's not attempting mid-range passes over the middle or down the seam because he knows he'll turn it over and get benched. There are two passes that really demonstrate who Kizer is as a QB, and both were supposed to go to Higgins, both in the red zone. The first one was a slant over the middle where Higgins won his route and had several steps on his guy. In the NFL, it's considered WIDE OPEN. Kizer missed by 6-8 feet and the ball was picked off. When we REALLY needed the TD OR THE FG. The second example was the pick on 1st down I believe when Higgins ran a terrific route and again had several steps deep in the red zone. Kizer missed by about 8 feet HIGH and the ball was again easily picked. This was a route that was reported to have been executed to perfection TWICE in practice that week, yet when it mattered Kizer couldn't deliver. What's worth noting is that Kizer didn't just miss, everyone MISSES, but he missed by a MILE in pro football standards. Additionally, he missed high, and he missed way behind....so it's not just a matter of missing one way or the other, he's missing everywhere. That's a definite sign of an extremely inaccurate thrower, and basically the kiss of death for an NFL QB. 

Our receiving Corp has taken a great deal of flack, and rightfully so, but there's nothing they can do if the ball is thrown 8 feet off the mark. Think about just how frustrating that would be to work so hard to get open but to not have the CHANCE to touch the rock, let alone catch it. Yes they've dropped tons, yes they've failed to get open too much, and yes it's been tough without legit playmakers, but they deserve a chance to play with someone who can actually get them the ball consistently. This is their livelihood and they can't control what crappy qb is behind center. Higgins should have AT LEAST 3 more tds, and Njoku and Dreggs should have several more as well. For my qb, I want the best combination of accuracy and mobility. And right now that's Baker Mayfield, with Lamar Jackson staying in the back of my mind. 

You lost me with Mayfield and Jackson...  That Kizer sucks,well....  

17 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

The only caveat to AJ McCarron is that if Hue Jackson wanted the guy here he, above anybody else in Cleveland, has worked with him for a long time and would probably have a better idea of his worth.

WSS

Steve, Hue has no clue what any QB is worth....  RG III earth movin' Griffin, and just trust me on Kessler.