Baker Mayfield

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Because fuck that Bears game, AMIRIGHT?!?!

All caps and not a real word?

Triggered 

[tiamat63]

48 minutes ago, D Bone said:

All caps and not a real word?

Triggered 

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

The day Baker Mayfield as a QB is even in the same zip code as Myles Garrett is as a DE is the day we should throw their names together in a "Well, what about Myles?" comparison. 

Come on meow. 

[tiamat63]

There are a lot of ways to be single high coverage.   But against certain single high looks, be it C1 or C3.     One of the concepts I learned a long time ago watching watching how Pete Carrol and USC attacked the single high C3 looks from Penn State.  They'd do it with skinny posts and double moves like corner-post.  Basically anything to get the DB to open his hips or to attack them over-playing depth.    Double posts is a great way as well because you can read the leverage of the middle field safety and make your key off that.    A good example is from this clip at the 1:44 mark.

 

 

Really anything that presses up the seams and forces linebackers to carry upfield or anything breaking inside leverage on corners.     There's another example of that at the 4:20 mark in the same clip there.  Almost like a smash concept, but the #2 doesn't break full to the flag.  Enough to stay outside the hash and away from the MFS, but enough to stay inside the numbers and away from the CB.    Takes a great throw with heat, timing and accuracy.    More importantly requires a QB to make multiple post snap reads. 

The biggest being what hash the MFS is favoring, where is his momentum or leverage carrying him post snap, and what is the alignment and depth of the corner based on the route tag. 

Keep this all in mind as you read this post.  Generally if you get a MFS far enough over on that hash, you can scratch that read off in your head and in the case of the 4:20 mark, just tag your little 6 yard hitch before the curl/flat defender can expand far enough to affect that throw.   Especially if said curl flat checks the #2 pushing vertical like in that chip.    Again, requires solid eyes.  So if you're wondering why Sanchez was drafted 1st round?  This Rose Bowl tape was a big reason why.  It's crazy that he had such an average career, because he looked the part at SC.   Of course he went to the Jets and to a QB graveyard that was Rex Ryan... but still.      Follow up post inbound.

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do?

well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn

head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience  over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.

It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

It isn't Baker that is holding them back

nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly.

It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.

1/2 of the all-22 is out and I'm literally watching it right this moment.  Get ready to pop over to the Baker mayfield thread.   

You aren't going to like what I've found.

[tiamat63]

The Patriots, like any defense that gives Baker trouble, do a great deal of shifting post snap.   The only issues is, when they don't, Baker takes far too long to process what he's seeing.

This is a double seam concept similar to what I referenced in the above post.

- Double seams over the expanding curl/flat defender, inside the CB but outside the hash to stress the safety into declaring his leverage choice. 

 

 

- Baker checked the corner and, per great NE coaching of their DB's, the corner at the top didn't move into his deep 1/3 because he had double TE to his side.  So Harrison Bryant wasn't someone he was worried about walking by him.  Actually, I believe that's JC Jackson and he was reading Baker the whole way.        The next few frames of this play you see Baker realizing where he wants to go with this ball (njoku) but that his eyes have been over there too long.   He ends up going back to double check the single high, but by then the manufactered pressures makes him moves his feet and bail out of what was still a reasonable pocket.  

If this ball is out on time....  (Remember me mentioning that with the Landry throw against the Steelers?)  It's a a big gain.   

If Baker holds the middle safety to that side of the field then connects with Hooper down the boundary seam then it's an even bigger gain.

 

Right now Baker is struggling post snap in some very obvious and very terrible ways.   He is absolutely one of the biggest, if not THEE biggest factor currently holding back this offense.   NE's skill players aren't all the much better than ours but they moved the ball with efficiency.   Yes, their defensive coaching and calls were superior.   But they also had a QB with his eyes in the right places based on concepts his coaching staff gave him to execute.   

There's still more to watch, but this is one of almost a half dozen bad plays I can put on Baker's shoulders before the 1st half even ended.   It's just NOT a good look.

The video and post above showed Mark Sanchez icing these throws.  Yes, it was against college competition.  But he was throwing to college receivers and was a very average NFL QB.   What does that say about our current signal caller then?

 

Feel free to tag anyone who was watching the game but didn't see "OuR rEcEiVeRs GeT oPeN"

[calfoxwc]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:52 PM, tiamat63 said:

Re-watching the first half now.  Game was over, chess speaking, during the first Patriots scoring drive.   It's an absolute masterclass in play calling.  It's almost like watching basketball and running a pick and roll until you get the matchup you wanted.  Patriots really stayed in 21 and 22 personnel early and went at our starting IDL.  They held up pretty alright in all honesty.   But the idea was to run and throw on our backup IDL after hitting the body blows against the starters.  Togiai, Elliot, Jackson...  all lost their matchups and lost bad.      

Our backups aren't NFL quality at the moment and if you're weak up the middle, then your whole defense is weak.      

edit: A scary familiar theme where the offense finds itself completely fucked - straight drops.   I would love to see it, but Bakers passer ratings when not using play action has to fall a TON.  Especially this season.   That out to Njoku that was housed by Duggar is a problem for 2 reasons.   First - It's a roll to 2 shell post snap and Baker locked into the out the whole way VERY pre-determined throw.   That corner was in trail and peeking back, which is why I mentioned 2 trap.  He completely falls off DPJ running upfield onto Bakers eyes.    Even if the read was good, it was a 17 yard throw WAY to low and inside.     The read was bad, the throw was even worse.  Lucky it wasn't caught or it could have gotten David killed.    

yes, but what does it mean ? It's one play with Njoku, who has had a history of drops since college. The trouble is, Jarvis is excellent, but playing hurt, Schwartz isn't quite ready for prime time, and Peoples-Jones is destined? to be a star wr next season.

that doesn't leave much in the passing game, and Baker is playing really well for a guy with a broken, damaged shoulder and a knee/foot injury. But he isn't playing up to par - of course not. I would have not let him play vs the squealers. Anyone who thinks our wr's are just fine - should watch next year's draft and FA.

  No qb can complete passes to wr's that can't get open. Higgins - not fast at all. Knows a few tricks to get open a few times here and there is not going to make for wins.

I just found this - it isn't just me seeing it:

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-poor-wr-roi

Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver Impossible to Ignore After Loss to Steelers

After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top two receivers.

Pete Smith

 

   A healthy Jarvis would be a giant boost to this offense.

[hoorta]

23 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn

head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience  over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.

It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.

Right you are.. The defense was pathetic too.. Patriots 9\9 on 3rd down..  However, Baker did give New England a real short field with his interception.  You may not like this- and I've said it- every QB occasionally has a bad game, but against the Patriots? That was one humongous stinker.   From NFL.com where Baker has sunk to the #18 starting qb in their ratings..   

"The numbers (71 yards and a pick on 21 throws) were rough, yet they didn't tell the full story of one of Baker's worst starts as a pro. He could have been picked off 3-4 times, panicked under pressure and looked lost when his first read was taken away.   (what have I been preaching? take his first read away, and he's too damn slow finding anyone to throw to- and don't give me- well, his receivers were covered- NO THEY WEREN'T- NOT ON EVERY PLAY) There's a lot of criticism this week about Kevin Stefanski's lack of adjustments, but that also falls on a fourth-year quarterback when he so rarely digs himself out of holes."

[tiamat63]

6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

yes, but what does it mean ? It's one play with Njoku, who has had a history of drops since college.

  

You haven't mentioned Njoku and the word drop in over a full season.    

Stop.      

 

I'm taking a piece of film, PRAYING, that this isn't what I'm finding because it's literally worst case scenario for this team.  A team that has been historically bad the majority of my life BTW.  I'm half you're guys' age at best.  I didn't get to enjoy the winning of the 80's so these past few years have been my best hope.  I don't want to see my QB causing problems but that is what it's looking like.  

 

The ball isn't even out, this is purely a mental issue right now.     Baker is a liability post snap and a bigger liability tying to place the ball more than 15 yards downfield.

 It's a fact beyond contestation and I've given at least one big example every week. I'm showing you just what the reality of the situation is.  I'm giving you a clear example, (with proof and spending time to put the work in) and telling you I'm also looking at another half dozen that were just plain bad.  Plus a couple more that foreshadowed his struggles to come in this same game.      All YOU or anyone else has to do, is to see this evidence and go "shucks, Baker isn't helping to elevate this team, hurt or not hurt".   

[calfoxwc]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:51 AM, Unsympathetic said:

You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].

wait. Let's look at the ratbird wr's in 2019. You fail to mention the difference in wr's.

Marquis Brown - FIRST ROUND PICK 2019.

Sammy Watkins - FIRST ROUND PICK 2014.

Rashod Bateman - FIRST ROUND PICK 2021.

really?

[tiamat63]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:51 AM, Unsympathetic said:

You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].

Not really comparable IMHO.  Especially given the run heavy nature of the Ravens offense and the influence Lamar's legs have on opening throwing lanes for him. 

[tiamat63]

2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

wait. Let's look at the ratbird wr's in 2019. You fail to mention the difference in wr's.

Marquis Brown - FIRST ROUND PICK 2019.

Sammy Watkins - FIRST ROUND PICK 2014.

Rashod Bateman - FIRST ROUND PICK 2021.

really?

Corey Coleman was a FIRST ROUND PICK. 

If he was playing for the Ravens, would you honestly be attempting to use him as some type of justification for this arguement?

Brown is a vertical threat and gadget player.  Watkins is a role player at best.  Bateman is a rookie who has been wildly inconsistent.   It's a passing game that scares almost nobody.  Using this list of receivers and attempting to say they're something good is....   Retarded.   They're a below average NFL corps.  Might actually be one of the worst in the league IMHO.

[calfoxwc]

12 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Right you are.. The defense was pathetic too.. Patriots 9\9 on 3rd down..  However, Baker did give New England a real short field with his interception.  You may not like this- and I've said it- every QB occasionally has a bad game, but against the Patriots? That was one humongous stinker.   From NFL.com where Baker has sunk to the #18 starting qb in their ratings..   

"The numbers (71 yards and a pick on 21 throws) were rough, yet they didn't tell the full story of one of Baker's worst starts as a pro. He could have been picked off 3-4 times, panicked under pressure and looked lost when his first read was taken away.   (what have I been preaching? take his first read away, and he's too damn slow finding anyone to throw to- and don't give me- well, his receivers were covered- NO THEY WEREN'T- NOT ON EVERY PLAY) There's a lot of criticism this week about Kevin Stefanski's lack of adjustments, but that also falls on a fourth-year quarterback when he so rarely digs himself out of holes."

sure. it was  stinko of a game across the board, except on special teams. That isn't all on Baker. The Patriots smartly shut down the sad group of wr's (Landry is terrific, but playing hurt, ya) after the first drive. The wr's can't get open, end of passing game.

Defense - the talent is all over the place, except for DC. Just my opinion now.

 

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

  You haven't mentioned Njoku and the word drop in over a full season.    

Stop.      

I'm taking a piece of film, PRAYING, that this isn't what I'm finding because it's literally worst case scenario for this team.  A team that has been historically bad the majority of my life BTW.  I'm half you're guys' age at best.  I didn't get to enjoy the winning of the 80's so these past few years have been my best hope.  I don't want to see my QB causing problems but that is what it's looking like.  

The ball isn't even out, this is purely a mental issue right now.     Baker is a liability post snap and a bigger liability trying to place the ball more than 15 yards downfield.

 It's a fact beyond contestation and I've given at least one big example every week. I'm showing you just what the reality of the situation is.  I'm giving you a clear example, with proof and telling you I'm also looking at another half dozen that were just plain bad.  Plus a couple more that foreshadowed his struggles to come in this same game.      All YOU or anyone else has to do, is to see this evidence and go "shucks, Baker isn't helping to elevate this team, hurt or not hurt".   

You're wasting your time trying to point out the obvious to Cal. Now he's on a rant about other teams having high draft picks at WR.   Our receivers are getting open. But Baker either doesn't see them, or is too damn slow getting the ball out- giving opposing DBs time to recover. I can add in his accuracy isn't what it was pre- injury.   

If you can see this stuff- take it to the bank every NFL defensive coordinator has seen it too... 

PS to amplify on the WRs- Julio Jones used to be a stud WR- now he's just a shell of his former self for the Titans.  

[tiamat63]

The foreshadowing I'm talking about: Part 1.

 

I know this might sting, but go to 1:45 and watch that TD throw.    It's a little shake against Johnny J who has inside eye.  

Mac knows all he has to do, with no other help inside, is move Malcom with his eyes and trust his TE to win the route.   Good pre-snap understanding, post snap eye movement, then coming back with a quick decision, quick throw and most importantly - trusting what he see's.  

It's executed perfectly.  Malcom gets fucked hard on the eye candy here opening up the throwing lane.

 

 

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

The day Baker Mayfield as a QB is even in the same zip code as Myles Garrett is as a DE is the day we should throw their names together in a "Well, what about Myles?" comparison. 

Come on meow. 

Just bustin' balls and firing up those that want to run the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny out of town. (oh shit, that'll trigger the 19 Church crowd in 3, 2, 1....)

Here's to hoping that Myles will somehow help just a little more during the next 47 point rectum tearing assault by the opposition...... Reggie would. 

[calfoxwc]

now it's getting troll time. You criticize Baker, compare him to Lamar, and Lamar has more a wr group than the

Browns. Then you criticize the wr group Lamar has, but you won't criticize the wr group the Browns have.

and no, they are not freaking getting open often enough with good secondaries like the Patriots. or squealers. etc.

I say again, Landry is terrific but hurt, Peoples-Jones is young, Schwartz is a rookie and not ready.... Bradley was a UDFA....

Hello?

****************************************

   I guess when you disagree with certain people, they go off their nut and gang up on ya.

lol.

    READ WHAT I POSTED. I DID NOT WRITE IT. The EDITOR OF SI DID. And have a nice pompous day.

***************************************************************

I just found this - it isn't just me seeing it:

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-poor-wr-roi

Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver Impossible to Ignore After Loss to Steelers

After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top two receivers.

Pete Smith

 

   A healthy Jarvis would be a giant boost to this offense.

[tiamat63]

8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

The EDITOR OF SI DID. 

I. DON'T. GIVE. A. SINGLE. FUCK.

 

The editor of SI isn't watching what I'm watching.  I promise you that person is WAY too big to sit down and watch the tape of the Browns that I'm doing.   The fact that column is just stats and not screenshots or film, things I'm giving you by the way, all but illustrates (see what I did there?) what I'm saying.

 

When the throws are there and the receivers have won, such as what I've shown you above, Baker hasn't delivered the ball.   It's that easy.  I'm not bragging about the Browns receivers, not in the least.  I've mentioned this that without Odell this team will need an infusion of young talent.   But that is all besides the point at this moment. 

WHEN. THE. RECEIVERS. HAVE. WON. THEIR. ROUTE(s).   BAKER. HAS. MISSED. POST. SNAP.           Quite a bit actually.

 

That's it, end of discussion.       All you have to say is - "You're right".      Because I know I'm right.  The receivers aren't good, but Baker isn't good enough to take average receivers and make them better like Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers and Manning were/are.   I just see no rational way you can disagree with that at this point.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

The foreshadowing I'm talking about: Part 1.

 

I know this might sting, but go to 1:45 and watch that TD throw.    It's a little shake against Johnny J who has inside eye.  

Mac knows all he has to do, with no other help inside, is move Malcom with his eyes and trust his TE to win the route.   Good pre-snap understanding, post snap eye movement, then coming back with a quick decision, quick throw and most importantly - trusting what he see's.

yes, the Browns don't play a loose zone very well. The Patriot receivers got open most all the game. I watched it. It was pitiful.

Like I said, Woods has finally admitted that the Browns play man to man better. But he doesn't play that much.

Jacoby Meyers was a heck of a terrific find at wr for an UDFA.

Nelson Agholor was a FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK. The Patriots played man to man however much it was, and the Browns wr's were not getting open.

and, the Patriots have Hunter Henry, SECOND ROUND PICK. Hunter Henry was labeled a PRO BOWL TALENT before he was draft. 7.0.

  NJoku is NO Hunter Henry.

[calfoxwc]

 

12 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

That's it, end of discussion.       All you have to say is - "You're right".      Because I know I'm right.  The receivers aren't good, but Baker isn't good enough to take average receivers and make them better like Brady, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers and Manning were/are.   I just see no rational way you can disagree with that at this point.

So, you finally admit I am RIGHT about the wr corp. and, yes, Baker is having trouble, he is INJURED and probably should have sat since the squealer game.

You are welcome. Now go have a nice quiet talk with your buddy Hoorta and set him straight - not that it will be possible.....

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

and the Browns wr's were not getting open.

 

 

Alright, fuck this I'm out.    Back on ignore you go.    You're free to message me when you pull your head clean out of your ass.    

 

[Dutch Oven]

41 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Just bustin' balls and firing up those that want to run the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny out of town. (oh shit, that'll trigger the 19 Church crowd in 3, 2, 1....)

Here's to hoping that Myles will somehow help just a little more during the next 47 point rectum tearing assault by the opposition...... Reggie would. 

The best QB since whoever argument is such a bad hill to die on.

The Browns have had a lot of mediocre to outright bad QBs since they came back in '99. There's a reason they've had three winning seasons in the last 22+ seasons. 

He'll get a fifth season, but if we are still questioning if he's the guy 50+ starts into his career, well there's a reason this thread exists. 

[calfoxwc]

23 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Alright, fuck this I'm out.    Back on ignore you go.    You're free to message me when you pull your head clean out of your ass.    

 

gee, mr. pompous arrogant napoleon -

you are wrong. Your x's and o's are apparently solid, but your

conclusions are not. If you can't handle not being worshiped, don't try to

be the board's "football greek god". It's a freaking TEAM GAME.

And against the best secondaries - they are not getting open.

They CLEARLY SHOWED that on the Browns-Patriots telecast.

It happened to BOTH Baker and Keenum.

So, you can shove it.

[Dutch Oven]

Jesus Christ, people still using Pete Smith as a voice of, well, anything.

I know Pete Smith, I watched roughly a half dozen NFL Drafts with Pete. Somewhere I have a photo of him, me and three or four other guys from the old message board we were on during the 2009 Draft.

Pete Smith is a passionate Browns fan, and takes football seriously. He really does.

He also takes hold of horrible ideas and holds onto them until they are strangled. Argued for years that Barkevious Mingo was a solid pick by the Browns. Loved Joe Banner. Loved the Mangini '09 Browns draft. (Look it up). And before anyone responds with "WELL HE'S GOT A JOB WITH SI AND YOU DON'T", allow me to write MARY KAY CABOT.

[tiamat63]

Foreshadowing Part 2:   You see above with the Mac Jones throw where I mentioned he knew where he wanted to go with the ball pre-snap, if he could get the MIKE backer (Malcolm) to move post snap out of the throwing lane.  You trust your man to win 1 on 1 and then put the dart in the window.  This is something in that similar mold except to the opposite.    It's Hoop on a shake and drag against a backer with good inside leverage, but he still wins the route.   

From empty with no additional help inside, no middle field safety and the nearest linebacker split inside of DPJ.    Bakers eyes are on DPJ waiting for him to get upfield and round past the linebacker.   Looks like Pats are in cover 2 but there's no middle field sink.  If there was it would likely be the backer over Hoop.     In all honesty, given the amount of bodies and their leverage committed to DPJ and Landry, Hoop is where Bakers eyes should have started and stayed.

 

 

 

 AH with the shake, gets the linebacker to take two steps out and gather his weight towards the hash.  

 

 

Hoop gets clear.  This is open in the NFL, BTW.     

Ball should have been out a 1/4 second after this frame was taken.  Instead Baker is still starring at open middlefield space waiting for DPJ to round out around the linebacker.   In empty, which has been an issue for Baker pretty much his entire career, I would hope he and the coaching staff would have work on taking the gimmie throws.  This one to our big FA TE should have been such a gimmie.

 

Instead Baker holds onto the ball, doesn't slide well in the pocket with the interior rush is guided past him.

Hoop has now made the hash, Baker see's him "flash".  This is where I need a QB who can move around in a tight pocket or learn where/when to step and reset.  

 

 

Baker comes down to Hoop late and leads him INTO traffic.  You'll see the WILL backer has fallen off DPJ into his hook zone, with eyes leading him to Hoop.

 

 

 

Hoop hangs onto the pass while getting absolutely stuck and moves the chains.

I know most of you will go "Ok, yeah? - completion".  But it's that foreshadow I'm taking about where Baker struggled with the little things and this was a first down of bad math.  The decision was poor and slow at the start and it was a very fortunate thing to pick up this 1st down.   It's a foreshadow I spoke of because when I see a QB struggling with something so simple, I know I have a + defensive game plan waiting on my first adjustments.   This is on Baker, his eyes and his pre-snap/post decision making.

This is the type of late throw that gets your pass catchers fucked up or worse - produces turnovers.

 

 

 

 

 

Baker isn't well right now.  And unless the running game is front and center so the play action itself can move linebackers and safeties,  I'm not certain if he ever will be.   The worst part is the routes developing behind Hoop.   Those are concepts this team can't effectively hit on/exploit because we really don't have the ability to do that when our QB doesn't have his 1st read and feet perfectly settled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

 

[D Bone]

21 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The best QB since whoever argument is such a bad hill to die on.

The Browns have had a lot of mediocre to outright bad QBs since they came back in '99. There's a reason they've had three winning seasons in the last 22+ seasons. 

He'll get a fifth season, but if we are still questioning if he's the guy 50+ starts into his career, well there's a reason this thread exists. 

I'll die on whatever hill I want to thank you very much... after all, I pedaled up it.

Well, I guess the Browns can just load the cart up and Buy-It-Now to find someone better than Baker next year, they have made that look so very easy since 1995. 

[Dutch Oven]

11 minutes ago, D Bone said:

I'll die on whatever hill I want to thank you very much... after all, I pedaled up it.

Well, I guess the Browns can just load the cart up and Buy-It-Now to find someone better than Baker next year, they have made that look so very easy since 1995. 

No, what they should do is invest a ton of money on Baker. 

They've made great moves like that since 1995, too. 

[hoorta]

54 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The best QB since whoever argument is such a bad hill to die on.

The Browns have had a lot of mediocre to outright bad QBs since they came back in '99. There's a reason they've had three winning seasons in the last 22+ seasons. 

He'll get a fifth season, but if we are still questioning if he's the guy 50+ starts into his career, well there's a reason this thread exists. 

Since the days of Otto Graham, which no one on the low side of 80 remembers...  This is it.. Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar good but not HOF material.  

Remains to be seen if Baker has hit his ceiling, or as Tia is pointing out- defenses have figured out his weaknesses...  The next seven games will tell us a lot...