Baker Mayfield

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

I think there were 14 completed passes out of 20 something.  Unless I made a mistake when I looked at the stats there were eight players that caught passes. The most was Jarvis with three. Whether we like it or not stefanski spreads the ball around.

WSS

As a fan, I like the idea that this offense is diversified and doesn't lean on any one player. Makes it difficult to defend.

Now, if I was a player whose future earnings depend on my production, I might have a problem catching 2 or 3 passes a game. 

If Stefanski sticks around for a relatively long stretch, something like this will happen with another receiver. Not saying Stefanski should change anything, but its an offense that will frustrate some who play in it.  

[SdBacker80]

14 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

As a fan, I like the idea that this offense is diversified and doesn't lean on any one player. Makes it difficult to defend.

Now, if I was a player whose future earnings depend on my production, I might have a problem catching 2 or 3 passes a game. 

If Stefanski sticks around for a relatively long stretch, something like this will happen with another receiver. Not saying Stefanski should change anything, but its an offense that will frustrate some who play in it.  

Give and take…we will attract TEs and RBs 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, SdBacker80 said:

Give and take…we will attract TEs and RBs 

Like I said somewhere before, I don't think there's a chance in hell Berry would have traded for OBJ in the first place. 

The WRs can be filled by young guys on rookie contracts and older veterans who might not be "top-tier" guys, but good plug-and-play guys. I don't think this will be a problem. Sure, someone down the road is not going to be thrilled when they think they are a 80 catch, 1200 yard guy, but are catching 55 balls here. That person will eventually be replaced. 

 

[Canton Dawg]

[Vambo]

[D Bone]

Still satisfying...........

 

[ATOM]

so when did baker get a sore foot ?

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, ATOM said:

so when did baker get a sore foot ?

You remember the play against the Bengals where he got sacked? (more like buried under a pile of bodies)  If you still have the replay- take a look at him on the sideline afterward. He was sort of hopping around, trying to shake it off...  

[jiggins7919]

I'll say this, if we don't figure out our red zone offense, we won't win this game and many others this year. I'm not sure what changed from last year, but we're really struggling. Penalties, ugly plays, inefficient pass formations, failed 4th downs, and whatever else...we aren't scoring the ball inside the 20's.

Where are our easy TDs? Every week I watch the NFL and there are simple plays which score. It seems like an act of God for us to punch it in, which is why Baker has only 8 passing tds. Pats have a terrific defense. If we get to the red zone, we need touchdowns or we don't win. 

[hx214]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'll say this, if we don't figure out our red zone offense, we won't win this game and many others this year. I'm not sure what changed from last year, but we're really struggling. Penalties, ugly plays, inefficient pass formations, failed 4th downs, and whatever else...we aren't scoring the ball inside the 20's.

Where are our easy TDs? Every week I watch the NFL and there are simple plays which score. It seems like an act of God for us to punch it in, which is why Baker has only 8 passing tds. Pats have a terrific defense. If we get to the red zone, we need touchdowns or we don't win. 

The play calling in the RedZone hasn't been good at all. It's like a one read to a WR and the scramble drill. Last week Landry went out on a slant and fell over and that was basically the entire play. He had to throw it away. 

I don't understand why Kev overthinks it down there. He rarely gives it to Chubb inside the 10. I know when Hunt out (which is usually the back in that situation) but run the damn ball. One read jump balls aren't really effective.

I think the last easy RedZone play was the Bronco game when they went play action and threw to to a wide open FB.  Seems like that play should work almost every time with our run game.

[Tour2ma]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:07 PM, BernieSuperbowl said:

Of course, it's everyone's fault except Baker. Classic Baker apologist take. It didn't take long for a Baker apologist to start throwing out the excuses. There's no excuse for a team to score 10 points with the talent we have. A real QB finds ways to get it done, he overcomes obstacles. Baker is mediocre, that's it.

Did a sewer get rerouted intto our Forum?

Where are these Football metal dwarfs all coming  from? Our pits of hell Section 8 section?

 

Bernie would blush if he saw his name close to your drivel...

And be careful with your reply or I will go speech to text on yo ass...

[Tour2ma]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:25 AM, Dutch Oven said:

If the 32 NFL GMs were lined up and asked, who do you want, Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield, how do you think the vote goes? 

And Lamar definitely has limitations too, as shown in the playoffs. 

LJ by a landslide... The threat of his legs is so great that his arm/ Head limitations in the passing game matter not. And it is now clear that he brings all the intangibles Baker does... e.g., leadership.

Limits? Yes... but he is still learning at the Pro level and so those limits might ease with time. He has the tools, just needs the refinement. Easier said than realized... hell to the yeah... but so long as he runs smartly and avoids major injury... he has a chance.

If he does not, then he could go the way of Mahomes, from whom some of the luster has faded.

[hoorta]

49 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Did a sewer get rerouted intto our Forum?

Where are these Football metal dwarfs all coming  from? Our pits of hell Section 8 section?

 

Bernie would lush if he saw his name close to your drivel...

And be careful with your reply or I will go speech to text on yo ass...

I'll have to keep an eye on these one post noob wonders, bitching away.  One of them lasted two posts before Z (on my recommendation) showed him the door.  

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

LJ by a landslide... The threat of his legs is so great that his arm/ Head limitations in the passing game matter not. And it is now clear that he brings all the intangibles Baker does... e.g., leadership.

Limits? Yes... but he is still learning at the Pro level and so those limits might ease with time. He has the tools, just needs the refinement. Easier said than realized... hell to the yeah... but so long as he runs smartly and avoids major injury... he has a chance.

If he does not, then he could go the way of Mahomes, from whom some of the luster has faded.

Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller)  just how good a QB would he be?  

I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage.  For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk, I doubt he's up there on the Ryan Fitzpatrick IQ level.  To date in 3-1\2 seasons, he's already more than half way to breaking Michael Vick's 15 season career rushing totals for a QB. Barring injury- he only needs about 2,600 more yards.  (Yeah, I had to look it up.)    Credit Lamar for have an uncanny ability to avoid taking kill shots- but you have to know- one is coming sooner or later.  

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

LJ by a landslide... The threat of his legs is so great that his arm/ Head limitations in the passing game matter not. And it is now clear that he brings all the intangibles Baker does... e.g., leadership.

Limits? Yes... but he is still learning at the Pro level and so those limits might ease with time. He has the tools, just needs the refinement. Easier said than realized... hell to the yeah... but so long as he runs smartly and avoids major injury... he has a chance.

If he does not, then he could go the way of Mahomes, from whom some of the luster has faded.

I would still take Baker over LJ...  I believe LJ's career will be a short one...

[calfoxwc]

53 minutes ago, nickers said:

I would still take Baker over LJ...  I believe LJ's career will be a short one...

LJ will probably get hurt for good one of these days - he is amazing at running, except vs Miami,

but he doesn't throw long with accuracy at all. And some of his interceptions look very, very bad.

With a bad offensive line, sure, LJ would run for ya.

I'll take Baker every time outside of that.

[Unsympathetic]

Lamar has an MVP trophy and Baker does not.. because Lamar is both a better passer and runner than Baker.  Lamar has a Heisman - just like Baker.

Every rationale you could make for Baker holds for Lamar -- Lamar's passing stats better with more All-Pros in OL, better with a better running game, better with better WR's, etc.  So far in 2021, Lamar has more passing TD's [14 to BM's 8] - and throws them at a higher % than Baker.  This is to be expected -- In Lamar's MVP season, he led the league in pass TD's and TD%.  Also in 2021, Lamar has more passing yards [2447 to 1917] .. and has 4 game-winning drives while Baker has none.  Links go to profootballreference.  And Lamar has nearly half of Baltimore's 1400 rushing yards this season.. If he really needs to have a label on him, Lamar is a passing QB whose side hustle is his NFL-level RB skills.

By way of comparison, when you add rushing, LJ has 1200 more total yards at this point in his career [as of this week he's started exactly 3 full seasons of games, 9 so far plus the 7 in his year 1] than Russell Wilson. Just look at his numbers as if you'd never thought about him before... Trying to shoehorn facts into a preconceived notion is never worth it because you'll find yourself defending some really odd ideas.

 

BAL lost on Thursday.. If all of Chubb, Hunt, and DJ had ACL's, how would our running game look?  The lolphins blitzed a ton [through BAL's shorthanded OL] and outside of garbage time shut down BAL's offense with their good DB's.. wouldn't shock me if Jevon Holland gets DROY.  Cleveland's offense has never been shut down this year, right?  This happens to good QB's all the time.. Aaron Rodgers had a abysmal week 1 this season, Mahomes was annhilated by Titans a couple weeks ago.  IMHO a ton of blitzing is the blueprint to beat BAL, but the beauty of football is that we'll see.  There were also a lot of BAL dropped passes and unimaginative playcalling - you know, another day in the NFL.

 

But seriously, at some point it's time to drop the notion that any one baltimore loss "Proves Lamar Can Never Win" .. Nope, sorry. He's really good, he'll be there for the next 7 years or so, and if Baltimore wins a SB or two, he'll be a permanent fixture down the road in Canton.

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

But seriously, at some point it's time to drop the notion that any one Baltimore loss "Proves Lamar Can Never Win" .. Nope, sorry. He's really good, he'll be there for the next 7 years or so, and if Baltimore wins a SB or two, he'll be a permanent fixture down the road in Canton.

Yeah- he's good at present...  

Running QBs in the NFL = Not For Long.  To date, the running back disguised as a quarterback Lamar has avoided a kill shot. It's coming- I guarantee it.  How soon we forget RG III....  

[mjp28]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- he's good at present...  

Running QBs in the NFL = Not For Long.  To date, the running back disguised as a quarterback Lamar has avoided a kill shot. It's coming- I guarantee it.  How soon we forget RG III....  

Depending on how anyone ranks them including longevity and results I'd start with:

1. Vick 2. Cunningham 3.Young 4. Tarkenton  then a whole bunch come in and how you want to rank them.  Have fun......

[nickers]

9 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Lamar has an MVP trophy and Baker does not.. because Lamar is both a better passer and runner than Baker.  Lamar has a Heisman - just like Baker.

Every rationale you could make for Baker holds for Lamar -- Lamar's passing stats better with more All-Pros in OL, better with a better running game, better with better WR's, etc.  So far in 2021, Lamar has more passing TD's [14 to BM's 8] - and throws them at a higher % than Baker.  This is to be expected -- In Lamar's MVP season, he led the league in pass TD's and TD%.  Also in 2021, Lamar has more passing yards [2447 to 1917] .. and has 4 game-winning drives while Baker has none.  Links go to profootballreference.  And Lamar has nearly half of Baltimore's 1400 rushing yards this season.. If he really needs to have a label on him, Lamar is a passing QB whose side hustle is his NFL-level RB skills.

By way of comparison, when you add rushing, LJ has 1200 more total yards at this point in his career [as of this week he's started exactly 3 full seasons of games, 9 so far plus the 7 in his year 1] than Russell Wilson. Just look at his numbers as if you'd never thought about him before... Trying to shoehorn facts into a preconceived notion is never worth it because you'll find yourself defending some really odd ideas.

 

BAL lost on Thursday.. If all of Chubb, Hunt, and DJ had ACL's, how would our running game look?  The lolphins blitzed a ton [through BAL's shorthanded OL] and outside of garbage time shut down BAL's offense with their good DB's.. wouldn't shock me if Jevon Holland gets DROY.  Cleveland's offense has never been shut down this year, right?  This happens to good QB's all the time.. Aaron Rodgers had a abysmal week 1 this season, Mahomes was annhilated by Titans a couple weeks ago.  IMHO a ton of blitzing is the blueprint to beat BAL, but the beauty of football is that we'll see.  There were also a lot of BAL dropped passes and unimaginative playcalling - you know, another day in the NFL.

 

But seriously, at some point it's time to drop the notion that any one baltimore loss "Proves Lamar Can Never Win" .. Nope, sorry. He's really good, he'll be there for the next 7 years or so, and if Baltimore wins a SB or two, he'll be a permanent fixture down the road in Canton.

A better passer?... Are you fucking high?

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah- he's good at present...  

Running QBs in the NFL = Not For Long.  To date, the running back disguised as a quarterback Lamar has avoided a kill shot. It's coming- I guarantee it.  How soon we forget RG III....  

I've been kind of waiting for this too, and I've always been in the camp of "Lamar will flourish early, but injuries or the league catching up to him will catch up to him", but let's remember pocket QBs whose careers ended early like Tim Couch, Troy Aikman, Sam Bradford, David Carr etc who sat in the pocket like a traditional quarterback does and got the snot kicked out of them, and whose careers prematurely ended.

The most famous quarterback injury ever, to this day, is Joe Theismann setting up in the pocket and getting annihilated by Lawrence Taylor. 

[gumby73]

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[jiggins7919]

17 hours ago, hx214 said:

The play calling in the RedZone hasn't been good at all. It's like a one read to a WR and the scramble drill. Last week Landry went out on a slant and fell over and that was basically the entire play. He had to throw it away. 

I don't understand why Kev overthinks it down there. He rarely gives it to Chubb inside the 10. I know when Hunt out (which is usually the back in that situation) but run the damn ball. One read jump balls aren't really effective.

I think the last easy RedZone play was the Bronco game when they went play action and threw to to a wide open FB.  Seems like that play should work almost every time with our run game.

It's funny, that was the one play I could think of. There's obviously been others, but that's the one I'd like to replicate, specifically for Baker and his confidence. How about more Harrison Bryant? I like him! 

I have a very bad feeling that we're not going to be able to run the ball and we're going to get down early due to random ass turnovers that somehow go their way and cause our passing game to either win or lose it. 

[Zombo]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

A better passer?... Are you fucking high?

I have no idea why people on this board keep underselling Baker, this thread is embarrassing. 

So now he doesn't have enough TD passes? Well we lead the league in rushing TDs ... so if we are getting down the field and scoring, the QB is doing his job!

Guy is out there throwing darts playing through injury, dealing with missing players, unhappy players, covid-infected players ... but it's never enough for some people. I guess they prefer pinball passing stats to a well executed game plan.

Z

[nickers]

10 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

It's funny, that was the one play I could think of. There's obviously been others, but that's the one I'd like to replicate, specifically for Baker and his confidence. How about more Harrison Bryant? I like him! 

I have a very bad feeling that we're not going to be able to run the ball and we're going to get down early due to random ass turnovers that somehow go their way and cause our passing game to either win or lose it. 

We'll be fine

 

[nickers]

5 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I have no idea why people on this board keep underselling Baker on this board, this thread is embarrassing. 

So now he doesn't have enough TD passes? Well we lead the league in rushing TDs ... so if we are getting down the field and scoring, the QB is doing his job!

Guy is out there throwing darts playing through injury, dealing with missing players, unhappy players, covid-infected players ... but it's never enough for some people. I guess they prefer pinball passing yards to a well executed game plan.

Z

Precisely... He's doing what is asked of him.. Doesn't complain... Plays within the gameplan.. Isn't flashing money signs or taking a weekend suarez in Vegas every other week... I think he's perfect for this team.. The kid plays hurt. He's not a pussy and... He's not a back stabbing kunt like Blowdell..

[nickers]

I'll just leave this here... Look how many TD's he has early in his career, compared to Sipe and Kosar.. Yes.. I know the game has changed.. But you still have to throw the rock!

 

[Canton Dawg]

12 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Every rationale you could make for Baker holds for Lamar -- Lamar's passing stats better with more All-Pros in OL, better with a better running game, better with better WR's, etc.  So far in 2021, Lamar has more passing TD's [14 to BM's 8] - and throws them at a higher % than Baker.  This is to be expected -- In Lamar's MVP season, he led the league in pass TD's and TD%.  Also in 2021, Lamar has more passing yards [2447 to 1917] .. and has 4 game-winning drives while Baker has none.  Links go to profootballreference.  And Lamar has nearly half of Baltimore's 1400 rushing yards this season.. If he really needs to have a label on him, Lamar is a passing QB whose side hustle is his NFL-level RB skills.

You failed to mention that LJ has thrown 8 interceptions this year compared to Baker’ 3 picks.

I look at LJ as a running back that happens to throw the ball.

[Unsympathetic]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

Are you fucking high?

You're high on your own supply if you think Baker - who's smaller than LJ - is a better passer than Lamar.

You're welcome to your own feelings, but not your own facts.

37 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I have no idea why people on this board keep underselling Baker

Baker Mayfield hasn't won an NFL MVP award.  Lamar has - and he deserved it.

It's not underselling Baker to say he's not as good as a guy who has an NFL MVP.. that's actually about as objective as you can get.  They're both good -- and Lamar is better..

You're overselling Baker to tell yourself he's better than one of the top tier of QB's in the league.

41 minutes ago, Zombo said:

we lead the league in rushing TDs

Great, but not related to Mayfield's performance vs Lamar.

43 minutes ago, Zombo said:

it's never enough for some people

I agree -- Lamar can't do enough to demonstrate to you that he's better than Mayfield.

44 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I guess they prefer pinball passing stats to a well executed game plan.

As opposed, of course, to Baltimore's game plan, right?

 

So if you aren't interested in coming up with some metric and sticking to that comparison whether it's a positive or negative result for you.. then it's really just feelings and not an actual analysis of anything.  It's just a bad choice to try to compare Baker to, of all people, Lamar Jackson...

[nickers]

Just now, Unsympathetic said:

You're high on your own supply if you think Baker - who's smaller than LJ - is a better passer than Lamar.

You're welcome to your own feelings, but not your own facts.

Baker Mayfield hasn't won an NFL MVP award.  Lamar has - and he deserved it.

It's not underselling Baker to say he's not as good as a guy who has an NFL MVP.. that's actually about as objective as you can get.  They're both good -- and Lamar is better..

You're overselling Baker to tell yourself he's better than one of the top tier of QB's in the league.

Great, but not related to Mayfield's performance vs Lamar.

I agree -- Lamar can't do enough to demonstrate to you that he's better than Mayfield.

As opposed, of course, to Baltimore's game plan, right?

 

So if you aren't interested in coming up with some metric and sticking to that comparison whether it's a positive or negative result for you.. then it's really just feelings and not an actual analysis of anything.  It's just a bad choice to try to compare Baker to, of all people, Lamar Jackson...

Well.. You're an ASS.. So there's that..