Baker Mayfield

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Since the days of Otto Graham, which no one on the low side of 80 remembers...  This is it.. Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar good but not HOF material.  

Remains to be seen if Baker has hit his ceiling, or as Tia is pointing out- defenses have figured out his weaknesses...  The next seven games will tell us a lot...  

At the end of the day, I think Baker is the QB of the Browns in 2022. 

But IMO it's 50/50 beyond that. I honestly have no idea either way. 

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Since the days of Otto Graham, which no one on the low side of 80 remembers...  This is it.. Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar good but not HOF material.  

Remains to be seen if Baker has hit his ceiling, or as Tia is pointing out- defenses have figured out his weaknesses...  The next seven games will tell us a lot...  

Six weeks and a bye this season is almost over.   Good thing nobody else is exactly tearing it up.

[D Bone]

45 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

No, what they should do is invest a ton of money on Baker. 

They've made great moves like that since 1995, too. 

So red pill or blue pill? We all know how that worked out for Morpheus. 

FWIW, I don't think Baker is going to be a mega deal QB for anyone. I think he'll slot in around mid pack and all of this premature hand wringing about paying him Mahomes type money will have been for nothing.... but at least it's entertaining. 

FWIW2, I also wouldn't throw a ton of money at him either. 

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, D Bone said:

So red pill or blue pill? We all know how that worked out for Morpheus. 

FWIW, I don't think Baker is going to be a mega deal QB for anyone. I think he'll slot in around mid pack and all of this premature hand wringing about paying him Mahomes type money will have been for nothing.... but at least it's entertaining. 

FWIW2, I also wouldn't throw a ton of money at him either. 

Before this season, I would have guessed that Baker, his people, and Baker fans would have asked for Dak Prescott money. I remember quite a few people on here saying that Baker is better than Prescott - and he received a four year, $160 mill contract almost all guaranteed. 

Things have definitely changed. 

[tiamat63]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 

The Fuck?  It's a 10 minute audio clip with a dude who has a high pitched, whiny ass voice going on a rant and nothing else.  No film, no plays, no screenshots or route breakdowns.  Nothing. And this person has 7.7k subs?  Jesus Christ... who fucking listens to this trash? 

That's the biggest insult you've actually given me.  You just randomly found this clip either through google or YouTube, found words that matched your own and just spam linked it. But I've been on this board for a handful of years and apparently fuck the time I put into it, huh? 

 

No study, no investigation, no film watch.  No work of your own to stand on.   Just hollow words from some random.    And that is why you can't match me. You can't and won't put in the work that I do. 

 I forgot to change my ignore preferences last night, I'll fix that mistake right now.  

[SdBacker80]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

At the end of the day, I think Baker is the QB of the Browns in 2022. 

But IMO it's 50/50 beyond that. I honestly have no idea either way. 

I would say it is 50/50 next year.

I would not be surprised if we trade away picks and find a vet….there are certainly names floating around. 

We extended Chubb, Myles, Part of our line….they are all in their prime.  The time is now. 

[hx214]

48 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I would say it is 50/50 next year.

I would not be surprised if we trade away picks and find a vet….there are certainly names floating around. 

We extended Chubb, Myles, Part of our line….they are all in their prime.  The time is now. 

What names? Outside of Watson, Rodgers and Wilson that have been talked about since August?

Cause one might be going to prison, one is a nutbag that might retire after you trade for him and still don't see the others team giving him up for the picks the Browns have and this qb class incoming....

[SdBacker80]

44 minutes ago, hx214 said:

What names? Outside of Watson, Rodgers and Wilson that have been talked about since August?

Cause one might be going to prison, one is a nutbag that might retire after you trade for him and still don't see the others team giving him up for the picks the Browns have and this qb class incoming....

When you say what names and casually dismiss a ”nutbag” and Russ…those IMO and many others are headliners and certainly guys you call and inquire about if you are 75% of the league 

 

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

The Fuck?  It's a 10 minute audio clip with a dude who has a high pitched, whiny ass voice going on a rant and nothing else.  No film, no plays, no screenshots or route breakdowns.  Nothing. And this person has 7.7k subs?  Jesus Christ... who fucking listens to this trash? 

That's the biggest insult you've actually given me.  You just randomly found this clip either through google or YouTube, found words that matched your own and just spam linked it. But I've been on this board for a handful of years and apparently fuck the time I put into it, huh? 

 

No study, no investigation, no film watch.  No work of your own to stand on.   Just hollow words from some random.    And that is why you can't match me. You can't and won't put in the work that I do. 

 I forgot to change my ignore preferences last night, I'll fix that mistake right now.  

and yet, you did not address the content of the clip. You know, WHAT he was saying.

and DO put me on ignore, Shirley. Because I sneeze in your direction, will never bow to it. Btw......Nice shoulder pads

dude.

[hoorta]

36 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

and yet, you did not address the content of the clip. You know, WHAT he was saying.

and DO put me on ignore, Shirley. Because I sneeze in your direction, will never bow to it. Btw......Nice shoulder pads

dude.

That clip, as Tia said- is little more than a 10 minute homage to Baker. It's only one side of the coin. There's plenty of other guys out there (with either NFL playing experience or scouting and in some cases both) who are saying the opposite. Steve Smith who probably has forgotten more about football than you know- publicly declared  Baker "average" on TNF. 

Yeah, I've seen your act elsewhere Cal. Just keep repeatedly beating anyone with a different take with your POV until they just give up. And declare you "won". 

[calfoxwc]

30 minutes ago, hoorta said:

That clip, as Tia said- is little more than a 10 minute homage to Baker. It's only one side of the coin. There's plenty of other guys out there (with either NFL playing experience or scouting and in some cases both) who are saying the opposite. Steve Smith who probably has forgotten more about football than you know- publicly declared  Baker "average" on TNF. 

Yeah, I've seen your act elsewhere Cal. Just keep repeatedly beating anyone with a different take with your POV until they just give up. And declare you "won". 

Never said that. Perhaps you could forget about putting words in there that are false so you can make some warped point...maybe....like you do elsewhere a LOT?

My point is, you and Tiam don't get to blast anyone who doesn't buy into your surpremist football superiority. I can easily be wrong, but will not be intimidated into not having my own observations. You don't get it working your way on the other forum, and it ain't gonna work here.

   AGAIN, I'll have my own, perhaps dumb observations, and try to justify them the  best I can. But saying I'm not allowed to have them, or belittle someone in a wheelchair because we don't bow in your direction.... is not going to work.

  Remember, your tirade over me daring to disagree with you and Tiam about Josh Allen and Josh Rosen? case in point.

Rosen was your and Tiam's super=duper super qb. But you two know football, and I and others were NOT allowed to disagree.

  Have a nice day. (where is the world IS your Josh Rosen, anyways?)

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/08/21/greenberg-defends-browns-baker-mayfield/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/myles-garrett-had-“no-doubt”-baker-mayfield-would-come-through-on-sunday/ar-AAQs4pn

Time to sit Baker. He's tough, but the effects of his injuries are obvious at times. Other times, it's amazing he can still pull it off. at times.

[calfoxwc]

37 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Steve Smith who probably has forgotten more about football than you know- publicly declared  Baker "average" on TNF

do you know who Ike Taylor is? nopesies?

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/baker-mayfield-ike-taylor/

Former Steeler Defends Browns QB Baker Mayfield

and, Hoorta, (and Tiamsies)

do you know who Dan Orlovsky is? He was a pro qb. and he always knew more football than you and your buddy Tiam have ever known, probably squared more.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/browns-baker-mayfield-dan-orlovsky-praise/95-004a6d7d-8128-4677-a65e-21abcf787efb

'Stop disrespecting Baker Mayfield': NFL analyst defends Cleveland Browns QB

 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  Remember, your tirade over me daring to disagree with you and Tiam about Josh Allen and Josh Rosen? case in point.

Rosen was your and Tiam's super=duper super qb. But you two know football, and I and others were NOT allowed to disagree.

  Have a nice day. (where is the world IS your Josh Rosen, anyways?)

1) Regarding Allen- you know the guy me and damn near everyone who scouted him said there were serious concerns about his accuracy at Wyoming?  How many games of his college games did you watch?  Hmmm? 

2) Rosen? The QB that was probably #3 on my list? 

FYI- seems like you were looking at maybe one or two screenshots of  Browns receivers being completely covered, and then making a generalization. Tia has been viewing entire games of the all 22 that gives him a damn more accurate picture of what's going on.  Nice try when Tia shows our highest paid TE in the NFL  breaking open over the middle- and Baker is slow getting the ball to him. That Cal isn't an isolated instance, not by a long shot.  It also will be IMHO- what's going to separate Baker from the Brady's and Aaron Rodgers of the NFL world. his internal clock can't process what he's seeing (not quite) fast enough. 

We've become so accustomed to the garbage we've seen at QB, just having a guy who's average is an improvement. BTW, you can look up my posts- I've been pretty good at QB scouting.  Was happy we drafted Baker "It's a SIN if we draft Quinn", almost barfed when we drafted Deshone Kizer.  

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

do you know who Ike Taylor is? nopesies?

https://heavy.com/sports/cleveland-browns/baker-mayfield-ike-taylor/

Former Steeler Defends Browns QB Baker Mayfield

and, Hoorta, (and Tiamsies)

do you know who Dan Orlovsky is? He was a pro qb. and he always knew more football than you and your buddy Tiam have ever known, probably squared more.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/browns-baker-mayfield-dan-orlovsky-praise/95-004a6d7d-8128-4677-a65e-21abcf787efb

'Stop disrespecting Baker Mayfield': NFL analyst defends Cleveland Browns QB

 

Just stop with the 22 point type if you're trying to impress me- you're not.    Another one of your usual tactics... Use the exceptions to try and prove the rule.   I'm not going to bother (I have better things to do with my time) digging up the other half dozen or so equally qualified experts who opine differently.  

[calfoxwc]

8 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Just stop with the 22 point type if you're trying to impress me- you're not.    Another one of your usual tactics... Use the exceptions to try and prove the rule.   I'm not going to bother (I have better things to do with my time) digging up the other half dozen or so equally qualified experts who opine differently.  

My point is, there are differing opinions all over the place. You bragged on your football player. Get a grip on yourself - because I did in response. That's all. It doesn't make you superior on this forum, doesn't make your correct in your opinions.

Sure doesn't make me correct, either. That's all of a point I was making. You really need to drop the darth vader complex. You don't own the narrative. Have a nice day.

   And, the 22 point type was exactly as it appears in the article. Go freaking READ IT.

[tiamat63]

On 11/14/2021 at 11:12 AM, Dutch Oven said:

 I don't think Baker's ceiling is as high as Lamar's - but his floor might be much higher, resulting in a more consistent, longer career. 

Interesting. 

Because we know, as I pointed out from watching the Raiders game, that defenses are rotating a lot of cover 3 looks at lamar and organizing their pass rush in interesting ways to dictate where escape lanes can be.     Another interesting tidbit, which I believe @hoorta or maybe @TexasAg1969 mentioned - was that defenses want eyes on Lamar to keep track of his scrambling ability, but also because they believe those eyes will lead them to the ball.  I.E. Lamar's  development as a passer isn't good enough to manipulate their zones with eye work as much as his feet and athletic ability can. 

I say interesting because the Pats believe the - 

 

SAME

 

 

 

 

THING

 

 

 

 

 

ABOUT

 

 

 

 

 

BAKER.

 

 

 

 

 

[tiamat63]

In case you were wondering a few things about the post above.

- All those plays were from separate drives.  So It's not like NE got caught in tempo and couldn't switch a call.

- Pats went with a mix of man coverage and man-match on early downs/favorable rushing downs

- Then switched to a lot of spot drop looks on 3rd and longs/ obvious passing situations with eyes ALWAYS peeking back on Baker.

 

 

So right now?  yeah, I'm taking Lamar.  Because he has the athletic ability to at least make defenses pay in terms of their pass rush.   The Pats fired up field and screamed into gap to pressure Baker.  You can't do that with Lamar because he'll wiggle out.  So that additional discipline in the rush affords him time.   Does that mean it'll last forever? Hell no.   Lamar could slip and have a season ending ACL tear at any play (God forbid)       But the way the Raiders played Lamar isn't so very different from the way the Pats just played Baker on passing downs.

So if you believe the Lamar is a glorified RB who happens to throw, then you have high level NFL DC's laughing at not assessing that same tag to Mayfield.    

And here is that proof.

[Unsympathetic]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

quite a few people on here saying that Baker is better than Prescott

Similarly, Stefanski is better than Kellen Moore!  Homerism is a hell of a drug.

As well.. "He could get hit and be out for the season at any time" applies to all QB's.  300-pound guys falling on you with bad intent hurts however they get there.

Baker is injured this season more seriously than Lamar has ever been - links go back through the start of freshman year in undergrad for both.  Baker had 2 concussions in the same season as a sr at Oklahoma.. nearly a retirement-causing injury before getting to the NFL at all.. making 2021 the second season Baker has had more serious injuries than Lamar, the guy who multiple people in this thread have stated is "Just One Hit Away From Losing It."  In truth, Lamar is at present one hit away from having only one [rather than two] fewer injury-damaged seasons than Baker.

[gumby73]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Before this season, I would have guessed that Baker, his people, and Baker fans would have asked for Dak Prescott money. I remember quite a few people on here saying that Baker is better than Prescott - and he received a four year, $160 mill contract almost all guaranteed. 

Things have definitely changed. 

Posted July 26

  On 7/26/2021 at 11:33 AM, SdBacker80 said:

Series of questions on the Baker contract situation....

So when does this get done? Browns bye week 2021

is it Before or after any or all of the 2018 QB class (Allen, Jackson)? Before Both

What does he deserve?  38M/per

What does he get? 38.5M

 

Would you give him a new contract? YES !

Tell me years and money? 4y/155M==38.5M base w/added incentives...85M guaranteed 😯.. (I'm not saying Baker's agent would even sign this deal) 

 

If I'm playing players agent 🤓 They all want Dak's number knowing a new TV deal cap number is coming? They may all 3 play on the franchise tag in 2022...

 Remember ...The Paul Depo games..   

 https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/02/how-browns-guardrails-could-impact-extension-decisions/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ranking-the-browns-contract-extension-priorities/ar-AALgByX?li=BBnbfcL

Scott Petrak is running out of days...  

Q: Who gets extended first? Denzel Ward, Nick Chubb, Baker Mayfield? And when?

— @Russell_tos

A: Mayfield. July 31.

But I wouldn’t bet the house on either. While I expect the Browns to prioritize an extension with Mayfield because he’s the quarterback and his contract will be the most expensive, he could choose to wait until next offseason if he’s not satisfied with the offer. A great 2021 season could bump Mayfield from $35 million a season to $42 million a season over a five-year deal, which might be worth waiting for if the Browns hesitate to go that high.

I fully expect Chubb to be next on the to-do list. If a deal with Mayfield doesn’t get done, then Chubb would be first. That should happen before Week 1.

I think Ward’s extension doesn’t happen until after the season.

 

 

from the Mayfield Contract Situation thread back in July..  on simmer.. until Bye..

to high/to low? this blind poke was taken back in July... ya got to your numbers yet? 🤓 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gumby73]

10 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I would say it is 50/50 next year.

I would not be surprised if we trade away picks and find a vet….there are certainly names floating around. 

 

9 hours ago, hx214 said:

What names? Outside of Watson, Rodgers and Wilson that have been talked about since August?

Cause one might be going to prison, one is a nutbag that might retire after you trade for him and still don't see the others team giving him up for the picks the Browns have and this qb class incoming....

I'd like to hear a seahawks reporter confirm any of this with Russ....https://www.brownsnation.com/report-russell-wilson-nearly-traded-to-browns-in-2018/  other media markets reported the same....  Wilson is believed to have been on board with this trade.

[hx214]

10 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

When you say what names and casually dismiss a ”nutbag” and Russ…those IMO and many others are headliners and certainly guys you call and inquire about if you are 75% of the league 

 

Aaron Rodgers is a nutbag. Weird, weird dude that I have a real hard time giving up multiple first round picks for just to have him show up for one year, get pissed and retire. Or take horse tranquilizer to combat COVID or whatever the hell he does...

Russell Wilson is literally the only viable vet. Still don't know why Seattle would give him up for anything the Browns would be able to offer.

[SdBacker80]

I have a feeling this is Pete’s last stand with the Hawks…and I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a rebuild in Seattle too.

And Rodgers is going somewhere next year.  Unless they win it all and the Front Office kisses his a$$. 
 

 Nothing being made up here both were in rumors and chatter last offseason.

Two Quarterbacks that 75% of the league would make a call 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 

I'd like to hear a seahawks reporter confirm any of this with Russ....https://www.brownsnation.com/report-russell-wilson-nearly-traded-to-browns-in-2018/  other media markets reported the same....  Wilson is believed to have been on board with this trade.

And Huey called it crazy so I’d think the opposite.

I remember this. 
 

What are Russ options? New coach bad team in Seattle…void of picks for years.  Maybe Philly? NY Giants? Pitt? Carolina? Miami? Detroit? Indy? 

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

So right now?  yeah, I'm taking Lamar.  Because he has the athletic ability to at least make defenses pay in terms of their pass rush.   The Pats fired up field and screamed into gap to pressure Baker.  You can't do that with Lamar because he'll wiggle out.  So that additional discipline in the rush affords him time.   Does that mean it'll last forever? Hell no.   Lamar could slip and have a season ending ACL tear at any play (God forbid)       But the way the Raiders played Lamar isn't so very different from the way the Pats just played Baker on passing downs.

So if you believe the Lamar is a glorified RB who happens to throw, then you have high level NFL DC's laughing at not assessing that same tag to Mayfield.    

I would take Lamar too, he's a far more dynamic QB than Baker is. 

And while I do wonder how long of a shelf life Lamar has, I don't care if he's a glorified RB who plays QB, or a glorified refrigerator repairman who plays QB, or a glorified fire hydrant who plays QB, the guy is dangerous to play against. I get that.  

[nickers]

2 hours ago, hx214 said:

Aaron Rodgers is a nutbag. Weird, weird dude that I have a real hard time giving up multiple first round picks for just to have him show up for one year, get pissed and retire. Or take horse tranquilizer to combat COVID or whatever the hell he does...

Russell Wilson is literally the only viable vet. Still don't know why Seattle would give him up for anything the Browns would be able to offer.

Were not getting either of them... We're better off riding Baker for as long as we can ride him and draft a guy down the road..

[gumby73]

11 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

What are Russ options? New coach bad team in Seattle…void of picks for years.  Maybe Philly? NY Giants? Pitt? Carolina? Miami? Detroit? Indy? 

you won't see Russ on this list until 2024..  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback//

He does have a no trade clause 🎅.. but does have a pending Out he could try to hold leverage on in 2022...

I'm having a hard time guessing at Bakers season ending shoulder surgery future/to outcome? I'm guessing, da 'experts will be running aye-muck to Baker's House all off-season  

 

[calfoxwc]

Baker isn't going anywhere. Pay him top money? nope.

But it isn't all his fault. So, watching the Falcons-patriots game last night, per Gumby's list of salaries....I would give Baker a contract in Goff-Wilson range - mid thirties, with incentives.

So, Baker had a very dismal game vs the Patriots.

then last night....

Matt Ryan laid an egg. I suppose by self-anointed "expert" logic,

"Matt Ryan sucks and is just average", eh? and Baker has a broken shoulder bone and torn labrum and knee/ankle injury? Matt Ryans' stats look dismal. Baker was only sacked twice I think. Baker had 1 TD. 1 INT..... Matt Ryan, healthy, had 0 TD's, 4 sacks.

zero points.

Note that Ryan's top wr's are an UDFA, fifth round pick, sixth round pick. Just an indication that they have not paid much attention to the wr position. The Browns are in better shape, and that isn't solid either. Also, I admit that Hoorta and Tiam's Josh Rosen actually got to play for 3 plays. He completed one pass for five yards and threw an INT, out of 3 tries at the end of the game.

	C/ATT	YDS	TD	INT	SACKS	QBR
M. Ryan	19/28	153	0	2	4-33	23.3

[hoorta]

15 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

And Huey called it crazy so I’d think the opposite.

I remember this. 
What are Russ options? New coach bad team in Seattle…void of picks for years.  Maybe Philly? NY Giants? Pitt? Carolina? Miami? Detroit? Indy? 

Seeing that the contingent offers (legal issues resolved) for Watson were three first round picks +, the asking price for Wilson is going to be the same. MHO? The Browns may inquire, and say "no thanks". I just don't see Berry as the type of GM that's going to push all his chips in the middle of the table for one shot at a ring. 

[Gorka]

You know you've got a good quarterback when there's no debate on whether or not he's a good quarterback.

[mjp28]

5 hours ago, Gorka said:

You know you've got a good quarterback when there's no debate on whether or not he's a good quarterback.

Simple but true   -but- . it would go for almost anything like  you know you've got a good pizza when there's no debate on whether or not it's a good pizza......eh ?