Baker Mayfield

[Canton Dawg]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You should go watch Watson's performances against the Patriots.  First game against them was for 350 total yards 2 TD's and 2int's. 

 

Also worth pointing out how sunk that Texans team has been without him.

 

 

 

 

I’m sure you can cherry pick a great highlight reel on any QB worth his salt.

I remember the one playoff game Watson won, only because he was sacked 7 times.

Mayfield isn’t elite, but he’s the best QB to wear the Browns jersey since Kosar (who BTW wasn’t elite either).

[Dutch Oven]

I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - and he walks. 

[MDDawg]

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

baloney.  we let a selfish, self-centered "injured when he feels like he wants to be" guy....

who went to the rams and was not hurt at all. Was a lot faster and his stop and go tells me

he didn't want to play for the Browns anymore. NY was delighted to get rid of him.

Not a team player.

Baker is elite in some ways, isn't perfect. The wr's were SHOWN ON TV to be ALL COVERED THE ENTIRE PLAY,

and that happened a LOT. A superstar qb can't make wr's get open.

Let's not rewrite history,  he played hurt and he drew a lot of coverage that's now plastering our subpar receivers. At this point with the lack of on field chemistry between the two, it's probably better he left but if we'd made the playoffs with him he would've made a few crucial plays. We'll see what happens in LA now that Woods is out.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - and he walks. 

Sure it could happen. 

if he walks we’d have a Five year window three of which behind an elite line. What excuses would we make for him? Is he getting any better in Year 6? Will his support around him get any better?  I think some on here would give him 30-35M a year because we’ve had nothing for 20 years. 
 

Mangini…Chud…Pat Shurmur era sucked, 1-15 and 0-16 were awful but Through all that why are we lowering the bar? 

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

It's a team game. The G.O.A.T. had receivers that GOT OPEN, or he would not have had completions. Plain and simple.

and their system had been in place for many years. And putting down Brady's wide receivers ignores the TE position.

Gronk and the outstanding TE before him.

Brady has completed more passes in games to tight ends, than we have blades of grass in our lawn. Before Gronk it was Ben Coates. All pro.

Before that, Russ Francis. All Pro. Brady went to the Bucs, and who goes with him? Gronk. Who do the Patriots have now?

Hunter Henry. Scored two TD's against the Browns. No G.O.A.T. at qb.

So, in 2021, so far, Brady completed 67.4% of his passes. Look at his wr's. Mike Evans, 6'5",225 lbs, First Round Draft pick....All pro in 2016. and Godwin, 3rd round pick, All Pro. in 2019. and Antonio Brown.

and Gronk.

Baker in 2021 so far, completed 65.4% of his passes.

If Baker throws 2 ints in a first quarter, "he isn't a very good qb".

************************************

Brady picked off twice in 1st; Bucs lose to Washington 29 ...

https://wtop.com › washington-football › 2021 › 11 › brady-picked-off-twice-in-1st-bucs-lose-to-washington-29-19

Tom Brady threw two interceptions in the first quarter as part of an implosion by the reigning Super Bowl champions, contributing to Washington upsetting the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29-19 Sunday ...

 

At this point- the GOAT has field vision and anticipation that Baker can only dream about having. Yup- Brady had a BAD game against the WFT. Your BFF Josh Allen had one against the Jaguars. Dak Prescott stunk against the Broncos. Great QBs all have off days- but they have damn fewer than what the inconsistent Baker is having 2021. You're hurt? Then swallow your pride and take a seat Baker.  Trying to be a hero when it hurts the team?     

Uh huh. So the Browns make Austin Hooper the highest paid TE in the NFL- and what have we got so far this year? 24 catches for 208 yards, and TWO TDs. So don't bring up Gronk. Baker couldn't click with OBJ, and he's doing near squat with a Pro Bowl TE at his disposal. Besides the #1 rushing game in the NFL.  It's past time to stop making excuses for Baker when he has yet another shitty game. Johnson had 99 yards rushing and another 58 passing. Can't blame him. Sorry- not buying the rest of the Browns WRs suck that bad. 

RE: the Patriots.. A stellar 73 yards passing by Baker. Hate to break it to you- but Mac Jones played like Tom Brady.  19\23, 198 yards, and three TDs...  

[ballpeen]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:09 PM, Icecube said:

He just doesn't. He is fine when the rushing game and D are kicking butt, but, he cannot save the day when they aren't, and a top QB often can. He is an average QB at best. 

I wouldn't say at best.  At his best he is a better than average QB.

That said, nobody is at their best all the time, or maybe even a high percentage of the time, so I agree, he doesn't deserve top QB money.

The problem is where do you go from here?  Do you let him simply walk?  That's a bad choice.  Do you franchise tag him?  That might be what we do as well as draft someone else.  Let him walk and look for some vet and hope you get in to a Tannehill type situation?    Who might be out there...Trubisky? Winston?  Those are two we might get for mid level money.

One option I am leaving out is getting Baker to sign for mid level money. He might do that, but when a player does that, it is usually with a new team.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Sure it could happen. 

if he walks we’d have a Five year window three of which behind an elite line. What excuses would we make for him? Is he getting any better in Year 6? Will his support around him get any better?  I think some on here would give him 30-35M a year because we’ve had nothing for 20 years. 
 

Mangini…Chud…Pat Shurmur era sucked, 1-15 and 0-16 were awful but Through all that why are we lowering the bar? 

On one hand, I feel that its somewhat unfair to judge his performance this season because of his injuries. 

On the other hand, I've always had the nagging thought that this is his ceiling. He came into the NFL with a ton of experience, played well from the get-go, but IMO it isn't going to get much better than what it is now (or at the end of last season, when he was healthier). That isn't bad at all, but closer to median concerning starting NFL QBs than the top. You can win a lot of games with a #10-15 overall QB, but a lot of things have to go right to win it all with that guy. (Joe Flacco, for example, won a Super Bowl)

What I'm worried about, and have mentioned this before, is that Baker gets a big contract and because of it he doesn't have all the talent surrounding him.. and I don't think he's the guy who has the talent to put a mediocre squad around him on his shoulders and make them a Super Bowl contender. What I'm worried about is, and allow me to go back in Cleveland sports history, is that the Baker Mayfield Big Contract Browns will turn into the Mike Fratello 90s Cavs teams. Good enough to eke out of #7 seed to get into the playoffs, and that's about it. Purgatory. 

[Unsympathetic]

56 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I feel that its somewhat unfair to judge his performance this season because of his injuries. 

On the other hand, I've always had the nagging thought that this is his ceiling

When do the excuses stop? Life always has circumstances.  Nobody gets drafted at the top because the organization is good.. except the Colts and Knicks, of course, and that's a different thread.  So every top10 QB has a bad HC or OC or assistant left-handed trainer -- and the very definition of a successful top player is taking a suck pill and overcoming.  The simple fact that we're having this conversation means that Baker is not top tier. What's the name for "ceiling is a player named by the coach to be a Pro Bowl substitute because the other guys are either injured or still in the playoffs" ?

Remember that the bar for "topQB" is absolutely not perfection -- Mahomes throws stupid INT's, Allen gets into Failing Hero Ball mode even this season, etc.

 

[Orion]

10 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - 

This is what I would expect, at this point.  I don't think he walks...but I guess he could if some team thinks he's worth a bundle.  I don't think that any coach would break the bank for him.  Unless perhaps, McDaniels gets another HC'ing gig.

[tiamat63]

11 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

Mayfield isn’t elite, but he’s the best QB to wear the Browns jersey since Kosar (who BTW wasn’t elite either).

Not a far high bar given our QB history, no?

[Canton Dawg]

27 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Not a far high bar given our QB history, no?

True, I think that’s been our downfall through the years.

[calfoxwc]

10 hours ago, hoorta said:

It's past time to stop making excuses for Baker when he has yet another shitty game. Johnson had 99 yards rushing and another 58 passing. Can't blame him. Sorry- not buying the rest of the Browns WRs suck that bad. 

RE: the Patriots.. A stellar 73 yards passing by Baker. Hate to break it to you- but Mac Jones played like Tom Brady.  19\23, 198 yards, and three TDs...

Except you did already - Baker is playing hurt - serious hurt. Actually, I was amazed at the Cincy game. Hate to break it to ya, but Baker threw some serious hot throws right on the money during that game. Remember the score?

  and, hate to break it to ya - but Johnson is a rb. Not a wr, so there's that.

I called for Baker to not play vs the squealers. Go back and look. The patriots took advantage of the Browns top two rb's out, and a wr gone, and a hurt qb still playing.

  If has affected Baker's performance. But when Keenum went in, they showed how the wr's were all covered - same old. They can double a banged up Landry, and hope they can limit throws to TE's.... and they are good.

For instance - Higgins was on the field for 3 snaps vs cincy, big Browns win.

He was on the field for 26 snaps, one target and dropped that one. Couldn't get open.

It's pretty easy, imho, to have great field vision with wide open wr's and a Gronk for your TE.

and, Baker has not been around as long as Brady, so the comparison seems silly.

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Not a far high bar given our QB history, no?

Our one and only HOF QB is Otto Graham, and unless you're almost as old as a WW II veteran, you wouldn't remember seeing him play. 

[hoorta]

44 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Except you did already - Baker is playing hurt - serious hurt. Actually, I was amazed at the Cincy game. Hate to break it to ya, but Baker threw some serious hot throws right on the money during that game. Remember the score?

  and, hate to break it to ya - but Johnson is a rb. Not a wr, so there's that.

I called for Baker to not play vs the squealers. Go back and look. The patriots took advantage of the Browns top two rb's out, and a wr gone, and a hurt qb still playing.

  If has affected Baker's performance. But when Keenum went in, they showed how the wr's were all covered - same old. They can double a banged up Landry, and hope they can limit throws to TE's.... and they are good.

For instance - Higgins was on the field for 3 snaps vs cincy, big Browns win.

He was on the field for 26 snaps, one target and dropped that one. Couldn't get open.

It's pretty easy, imho, to have great field vision with wide open wr's and a Gronk for your TE.

and, Baker has not been around as long as Brady, so the comparison seems silly.

"Hurt QB still playing" thanks for the excuse. Just stop Cal. 

[SdBacker80]

50 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Except you did already - Baker is playing hurt - serious hurt. Actually, I was amazed at the Cincy game. Hate to break it to ya, but Baker threw some serious hot throws right on the money during that game. Remember the score?

  and, hate to break it to ya - but Johnson is a rb. Not a wr, so there's that.

I called for Baker to not play vs the squealers. Go back and look. The patriots took advantage of the Browns top two rb's out, and a wr gone, and a hurt qb still playing.

  If has affected Baker's performance. But when Keenum went in, they showed how the wr's were all covered - same old. They can double a banged up Landry, and hope they can limit throws to TE's.... and they are good.

For instance - Higgins was on the field for 3 snaps vs cincy, big Browns win.

He was on the field for 26 snaps, one target and dropped that one. Couldn't get open.

It's pretty easy, imho, to have great field vision with wide open wr's and a Gronk for your TE.

and, Baker has not been around as long as Brady, so the comparison seems silly.

This is going further back…In Bakers case and over the years I think WRs not getting open has been the rare exception to the rule.   I tend think he’s had more than enough resources at his side to succeed.  

My point is when the resources fall off a bit with his say 35M contract is he going to suddenly process the game faster and not hold onto ball too long.  I’d be naive to think he will not get a little better but in years 7…8…9 when we are burdened with his contract and trying to replace the line and the backs.  Is Baker enough?  We’ve set the bar so low as fan base some of us will pay.  I forgot what 1-15 was like and 8-9 or 9-8 ain’t good enough for me…I’ll act like a b!tchy whiny Iggles fan…we were poised for a d@mn super bowl run this year 

[D Bone]

Man, how the mighty have fallen. 

During our Undefeated Pre-season, all I read was how our FA signings and world beating draft helped to form the best roster in the NFL, and our Super Bowl window was wide open.

We couldn't even make it to my fucking birthday tomorrow before talks among fans and media have us replacing our starting QB next year for the next future former Browns starting QB. 

^ I usually love me some consistency, but not this time.... Just another year as a Browns fan I suppose. 

[nickers]

11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

"Hurt QB still playing" thanks for the excuse. Just stop Cal. 

Being physically hurt is not an excuse.. Its a fact.. Whether or not you like it.. Injuries don't care...

[hoorta]

20 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Man, how the mighty have fallen. 

During our Undefeated Pre-season, all I read was how our FA signings and world beating draft helped to form the best roster in the NFL, and our Super Bowl window was wide open.

We couldn't even make it to my fucking birthday tomorrow before talks among fans and media have us replacing our starting QB next year for the next future former Browns starting QB. 

^ I usually love me some consistency, but not this time.... Just another year as a Browns fan I suppose. 

I'm not saying Baker needs to be replaced. And I'll grant injuries are affecting his play. Terry Pluto just wrote the  Super Bowl expectations were unrealistic. However, it's safe to say  the Browns are near, or at the top of the list of underperforming teams to date. Injuries?  The Ratbirds had to play games with street FAs at running back. 

They're not totally out of the playoff picture yet, but we can ill afford more than one loss the rest of the way out. And  the Chargers and Patriots own tiebreakers over us. 

[hoorta]

35 minutes ago, nickers said:

Being physically hurt is not an excuse.. Its a fact.. Whether or not you like it.. Injuries don't care...

Right, and the rest of the NFL doesn't care if you're injured or not.  

[nickers]

Just now, hoorta said:

Right, and the rest of the NFL doesn't care if you're injured or not.  

No they'll use his injuries to go even harder at him... All teams do it...

[Canton Dawg]

57 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Man, how the mighty have fallen. 

During our Undefeated Pre-season, all I read was how our FA signings and world beating draft helped to form the best roster in the NFL, and our Super Bowl window was wide open.

We couldn't even make it to my fucking birthday tomorrow before talks among fans and media have us replacing our starting QB next year for the next future former Browns starting QB. 

^ I usually love me some consistency, but not this time.... Just another year as a Browns fan I suppose. 

I hear you D.

It seems like just last month we were 0-16 and the laughing stock of the league.

Mayfield may not be the QB to take us to the SB, but at least we aren’t going through the endless carousel of drafting the next college QB to lead us through another abysmal season.

[Icecube]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:56 PM, tiamat63 said:

I noticed you didn't circle that 27-26 record after typing out "winner".

Ouchie.

[Icecube]

35 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I hear you D.

It seems like just last month we were 0-16 and the laughing stock of the league.

Mayfield may not be the QB to take us to the SB, but at least we aren’t going through the endless carousel of drafting the next college QB to lead us through another abysmal season.

Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $. 

[Bob806]

17 hours ago, hx214 said:

I remember one time Brandon Weeden over threw a pass to his receiver so badly the refs called intentional grounding on him.

Man I miss the good old days!

I was in Jerry Jones' billion dollar palace in 2012 when Weeden threw it in the bleachers on 4th & goal. OUCH

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Icecube said:

Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $. 

I don’t think Baker deserves top $ because his stats doesn’t warrant it.

Using that logic, you mentioned Dak Prescott in the same sentence with Mahomes & Rogers.

Prescott is in his 6th season in the NFL, and 1-2 in playoffs, he’s getting better stat wise but he’s not in the same category as the other 2 guys.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Icecube said:

Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $. 

Regarding Tannehill, here ya go....https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/ryan-tannehill-9818/

Because as of now, Baker is about on that level.  Offer him 4 years, $60 million or so guaranteed.  And by comparison... Now Browns fans are whining "his receivers stink", Chubb was hurt. he's hurt, Stefanski forgot how to coach,  etc, etc... Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do? Go out and beat the Rams.  Sheeze.   We lose Chubb and the Browns go to New England and lay a humongous turd on us fans. 

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, Icecube said:

Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $. 

How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.

Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times. 

^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95. 

[tiamat63]

19 minutes ago, D Bone said:

exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times. 

^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95. 

Because fuck that Bears game, AMIRIGHT?!?!

[Icecube]

19 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - and he walks. 

The front office can't fear that, or they mortgage the team's future. They need to stick to their guns and offer something fair, but not cross the line. 

[Icecube]

1 hour ago, D Bone said:

How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.

Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times. 

^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95. 

Reading the tea leaves.....didn't his wife come out and say he is under-appreciated for turning the entire team's culture around??????????? Wives know what their hubby's are feeling. If he feels responsible for turning around this team from an 0-16 team to what they are (a .500 team to possibly a play off team) then he will feel he's as valuable as any QB in the NFL, and IF he is the main person responsible for that transformation then???? Is he?