Baker Mayfield

[lodilobo]

I've been saying since 2018 that Baker is a franchise qb...mainly because there are times that he looks like one. But...I'm starting to realize that maybe he is just an average qb with a strong arm. Then, again....I keep thinking that he maybe has a very fragile ego, and when things are not going ideal for him, he tends to lose his confidence and play bad. Then again....maybe it is the injuries. There's definitely something going on. I would just keep him and not move on a big contract until next season. Then you risk losing him, I guess. It just kind of makes me want to puke....watching all these other young qb's looking like hall of famers. I'm not talking about Lamar Jackson. As I stated in a previous  post....he's a true system player. A great running back who has a weak arm, and his leg speed will betray him quickly. I'll still take Mayfield over Jackson any day.

[calfoxwc]

Baker is a terrific qb. But he isn't perfect. I keep seeing in the media that "Baker this, Baker that" etc.

But it seems that "great qb's" have terrific receivers. What was it they showed and analyzed during the Patriot game?

5 guys out to catch a pass and not one got open at all? What is a torn labrum, broken bone in shoulder, hurt foot qb

SUPPOSED TO DO?

If lamar couldn't run like a crazed chipmunk, he would be one of the worst qbs in the league.

Let's put it this way:

Since 1999, the Browns have drafted a wr TWICE in the first round. Stupid braylon edwards in 05, and Corey Coleman in 2016.

Not choices I would have made.

even the Patriots drafted  N'Keal Harry first round in 2019. again, the Browns in previous years drafted duds.

Not any more, but wr is a weak point. I would like to see what Cager and Bradley can do. They were both UDFAs......

[Nero]

6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I would continue to say that I think Baker is our Andy Dalton, but I don't want to be reminded again that Baker won one playoff game to Andy Dalton's zero playoff wins.

 

You know, Baker won one playoff game. 

Dalton, instead... 

[MDDawg]

I've said it before, Baker's a very good QB but he's not elite. This team is also too heavily dependent on the running game, exposing Baker's inadequacies this week and people should stop saying we don't have good receivers, we just let one go we didn't know how to use.

[calfoxwc]

23 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

I've said it before, Baker's a very good QB but he's not elite. This team is also too heavily dependent on the running game, exposing Baker's inadequacies this week and people should stop saying we don't have good receivers, we just let one go we didn't know how to use.

baloney.  we let a selfish, self-centered "injured when he feels like he wants to be" guy....

who went to the rams and was not hurt at all. Was a lot faster and his stop and go tells me

he didn't want to play for the Browns anymore. NY was delighted to get rid of him.

Not a team player.

Baker is elite in some ways, isn't perfect. The wr's were SHOWN ON TV to be ALL COVERED THE ENTIRE PLAY,

and that happened a LOT. A superstar qb can't make wr's get open.

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

 

Baker is elite in some ways, isn't perfect. 

Leaving out the words 'winner', 'intangibles', 'attitude' and 'arm strength'... which are ranked between least important to most cliche'd -    What would you believe Baker does that is elite?  With non-vague articulation, please and thank you. 

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

You know, Baker won one playoff game. 

Dalton, instead... 

DeShaun Watson won a single playoff game as well, and he’s been playing longer than Mayfield.

I don’t understand the desire to bring him to the Browns.

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I would continue to say that I think Baker is our Andy Dalton, but I don't want to be reminded again that Baker won one playoff game to Andy Dalton's zero playoff wins.

 

Beating the Steelers in that playoff game? Forget on the first scrimmage play the ball got snapped over Ben's head for a gift TD?  Or those three interceptions he threw?  Crap, we were up 28-zip after the first quarter, and hung on to win. 

Is it just me, or anyone else notice Baker's accuracy has gone to hell?  Injuries? Maybe, but injured or not, it is what it is. Take a look what Mac Jones did to our secondary with those laser guided bombs. Mayfield used to be able to throw like that. Or, the double whammy that I saw on MNF- Jimmy G with mostly pinpoint passes, ball out quick, and accurate.. To me, this is the most concerning thing about Baker... Compared to the very best in the biz- the Bradys and Rodgers- he's around a half beat late in diagnosing the play If his primary read is covered- he's just too damn slow going through his progressions, and amplifies the problem with his tendency to dance around in the pocket trying to find the open guy. You might also posit- Baker doesn't trust his arm enough anymore to try and throw the ball into tight windows, at the expense of avoiding interceptions. Are the receivers not getting open, or just not enough for Baker to try and throw them the ball?  

It's year four in the Baker era.. It's unusual for a quarterback to show drastic improvement after that time frame- though there are a few exceptions. Berry and company are going to have to make a decision if what they're seeing out of Mayfield is good enough to be a consistent playoff team.  

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Hunter33109 said:

A Baltimore Raven's fan I worked with would always say "Winners win, Losers lose".  I'd always say duh! but now I get it.  The QB is a special leader on the field that always needs to inspire others to step up their game even when they may not be at the top of their own game.  These A+++QB's are extremely rare and I can only name a few, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger (in his prime) and even though he's young Lamar Jackson.  I know this will irritate many Browns fans but you have to call an ugly baby ugly sometimes.  Baker Mayfield is ugly he lacks that spark that inspires others to greatness or at least be part of greatness.  I don't blame Baker I'm sure he works hard but he lacks the presence that great QB's have to propel a team to greatness.  I blame the management, too long they've wanted to make a headline splash by selecting a QB that is flashy and grabs headlines.  As we know many many of these selections do not pan out.  I believe the Browns should consider trading for an A++ or A+++ QB that is established and solid who wants to work behind one of the best offensive lines in football and be the center piece of an offence with many Pro Bowl tools.  May be select a good solid QB in the draft to be second to the selected A+++ QB so that even when this stellar QB is not behind center their presence will still be felt.  The Browns have had a history of QBs that are in the trash bin of history but if you expecting Baker to lead the Browns to greatness you will be sorely disappointed.  

As a Ravens fan, then you have to know if Lamar didn't have the running ability of our Kareem Hunt, you'd be singing a far different tune. His unreal athletic talent makes up for  a lot of other deficiencies.  Like being able to break off 20 or 30 yard runs when the pocket collapses- which would be guaranteed sacks for almost every other NFL QB.  

True, Baker may not have the ability to elevate the play of the others around him. However- Ravens losses to the Bengals, and now the Dolphins are telling me teams are starting to figure out ways to effectively scheme against Jackson. 

[tiamat63]

7 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

DeShaun Watson won a single playoff game as well, and he’s been playing longer than Mayfield.

I don’t understand the desire to bring him to the Browns.

You should go watch Watson's performances against the Patriots.  First game against them was for 350 total yards 2 TD's and 2int's. 

 

Also worth pointing out how sunk that Texans team has been without him.

 

 

 

 

[Hunter33109]

7 minutes ago, hoorta said:

As a Ravens fan, then you have to know if Lamar didn't have the running ability of our Kareem Hunt, you'd be singing a far different tune. His unreal athletic talent makes up for  a lot of other deficiencies.  Like being able to break off 20 or 30 yard runs when the pocket collapses- which would be guaranteed sacks for almost every other NFL QB.  

True, Baker may not have the ability to elevate the play of the others around him. However- Ravens losses to the Bengals, and now the Dolphins are telling me teams are starting to figure out ways to effectively scheme against Jackson. 

It may be too soon for Lamar to be the savior of the Ravens but the management there in Baltimore knows what they are looking for and will find it, it may not be a splashy QB but they will find a QB that will fit their system that will raise to the occasion and bring the team with them.  It may take a year or so but they will fix it.  The Browns management on the other hand will take an afternoon and look through Sport Illustrated College QB edition and spend their time using darts to select their next QB and then wonder why they paid all this money for a Pro Bowl offense and defense then go through the process of reinventing the team.  This is how the Browns create a "winning" culture.  

To be honest I thought the Bengals were going to be better than they were this year.  Every four years they seem to surprise the league with a good team (not great but good) that gets into the playoffs and I thought this was their year.  I thought the Browns would be a solid team this year mainly because the Steelers were having QB issues and I expected the Ravens to be on par with the Browns.  I was way off base and who can tell.  But just like all Browns fans I can say "There is always next season".   

[Icecube]

23 hours ago, BaconHound said:

Deserve is a tough word. I tend to agree he doesn’t deserve top money based on his skill set but the question in the NFL is what’s plan B?  QB is the most important and hardest position to procure.

I don't think the Browns offer a $40 mill a year contract. $20, maybe. But top $? No way.

[Hunter33109]

6 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

So your busy polishing all of those Vince Lombardi trophies that Lamar Jackson helped you guys win?

Nope I dislike Baltimore with a passion but at least their management knows how to put together a winning team even one stolen from Cleveland.  Baker is not the answer may be an Aaron Rodgers or other leading QB would be interested in leading the Browns then things would turn around.  I'll still root for the Browns every week and watch them on my phone (most of their games are not available in my neck of the woods).  I've been a fan since Brian Sipe and the Pruitts and my family had season tickets during the good and bad years.  

[BaconHound]

 

I don't think the Browns offer a $40 mill a year contract. $20, maybe. But top $? No way.

I would think the offer would be $30 per but shorter time frame.

[hoorta]

15 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

I would think the offer would be $30 per but shorter time frame.

Shorter time frame- ditto, with a lot of incentives, and not a lot of guaranteed money. And for sure gives the Browns an early out. Looks like the Panthers made a monumental mistake picking up Sam Darnold's 5th year option. Browns not so much with Baker. He's probably picking up million$$ from Progressive doing those commercials anyway.     

[Icecube]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Baker is a terrific qb. But he isn't perfect. I keep seeing in the media that "Baker this, Baker that" etc.

But it seems that "great qb's" have terrific receivers. What was it they showed and analyzed during the Patriot game?

5 guys out to catch a pass and not one got open at all? What is a torn labrum, broken bone in shoulder, hurt foot qb

SUPPOSED TO DO?

If lamar couldn't run like a crazed chipmunk, he would be one of the worst qbs in the league.

Let's put it this way:

Since 1999, the Browns have drafted a wr TWICE in the first round. Stupid braylon edwards in 05, and Corey Coleman in 2016.

Not choices I would have made.

even the Patriots drafted  N'Keal Harry first round in 2019. again, the Browns in previous years drafted duds.

Not any more, but wr is a weak point. I would like to see what Cager and Bradley can do. They were both UDFAs......

Brady regularly won SUPER BOWLS (NOT JUST PLAY OFF GAMES) with ho hum WRs. He won rings with a aged Troy Brown, Burt Emanuel, Curtis Jackson, David Patten, Deion Branch, David Givens, Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, and had Moss for one great year (but didn't win the SB). Those guys mostly went on to do nothing on other teams. Big Ben mostly turned lemons into lemonade in his prime. He made Ward (a small, slow WR) into a Hall of Famer, won a ring with Randel El and Quincy Morgan (outcast of the Browns), Santanio Holmes (did nothing on other teams). Made Mike Wallace a star, who didn't do much without him.

Baker will have no success stories like Brady and Ben, because he isn't special like them. If you are going to be paid like a top 5 QB, you better play like one, period. 

[nickers]

23 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Brady regularly won SUPER BOWLS (NOT JUST PLAY OFF GAMES) with ho hum WRs. He won rings with a aged Troy Brown, Burt Emanuel, Curtis Jackson, David Patten, Deion Branch, David Givens, Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, and had Moss for one great year (but didn't win the SB). Those guys mostly went on to do nothing on other teams. Big Ben mostly turned lemons into lemonade in his prime. He made Ward (a small, slow WR) into a Hall of Famer, won a ring with Randel El and Quincy Morgan (outcast of the Browns), Santanio Holmes (did nothing on other teams). Made Mike Wallace a star, who didn't do much without him.

Baker will have no success stories like Brady and Ben, because he isn't special like them. If you are going to be paid like a top 5 QB, you better play like one, period. 

So tell us who would you replace him with...?

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You should go watch Watson's performances against the Patriots.  First game against them was for 350 total yards 2 TD's and 2int's.

Also worth pointing out how sunk that Texans team has been without him.

***************************************

However, Tyrod Taylor was drafted in round sixth round by the ratbirds. And Brandon Cooks was a first round draft pick. Two other wr's were third round picks.  Watson was a first round pick. Of course they won't perform the same.

 

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Leaving out the words 'winner', 'intangibles', 'attitude' and 'arm strength'... which are ranked between least important to most cliche'd -    What would you believe Baker does that is elite?  With non-vague articulation, please and thank you. 

Fair question. He does a not of things only very well or good.

Per NFL.com - his draft profile:

Strengths

• Tough and competitive ELITE
• Plays with fiery demeanor and massive chip on his shoulder ELITE
• Teammates rally around him on and off field LEADERSHIP - ELITE
• In complete command of his offense and has improved with each season - INTELLIGENCE ELITE
• Light on his feet with quick setup in pocket
• Has good pre-snap plan
• Eyeballs and eliminates safeties to isolate man coverage on his receiver
• Quick processor from read to read
• Responds suddenly to what is there
• Pitch and catch accurate if you allow it
• Underrated arm talent
• Expedite from off-platform with tight release and zip - EVEN WITH INJURY _ HE ZIPPED SERIOUS PASSES VS CINCY ELITE
• Drives with lower body for added velocity
• Accurate on all three levels ELITE (if you saw him on the player eval show - Baker astounded by hitting every target)
• Completed 53 percent of his throws of 21-plus yards over last two years
• Drops touch throws over top of linebackers trailing in coverage
• Has improv talent ELITE - in college, and pros.
• Uses mobility to buy time to make plays
• Effective when he breaks contain and will probe for explosive play
• Completed 67 percent when on the move
• Rises to the occasion ELITE
• Posted elite production and efficiency as passer in the red-zone (yep, ELITE)

**************************************************************************

    Now, it should also be added, that throwing on the move/rollouts - Baker's accuracy is ELITE.

The best NFL quarterbacks for every type of throw

https://www.msn.com › en-us › news › other › the-best-nfl-quarterbacks-for-every-type-of-throw › ss-AAKPOXc

Rodgers' passer rating of 139.3 was by far the NFL's highest on designed rollout throws, though it should also be mentioned that Baker Mayfield -- who was the best rollout thrower on last year's ...

**********************************

NOTE: Packers wr Devonte Adams was a second round pick

 

 

[tiamat63]

21 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

 

 

I didn't ask for a pre-draft profile.  I'm asking what NFL Baker does that is elite.  Elite being top 10.

Again, leave out the cliche'd language.  I guess I also have to include "tough", "competitive" "fiery" etc etc.    The vague shit that doesn't mean much, otherwise Tim Tebow would be the best QB every.     In your own words, with supporting evidence, please and thank you.  

[Orion]

3 hours ago, MDDawg said:

and people should stop saying we don't have good receivers, we just let one go we didn't know how to use.

...I guess, at this point, that's a fair statement, I guess...

 

3 hours ago, MDDawg said:

This team is also too heavily dependent on the running game,

Yes.  But that's this team.  It's what we've got.  We thought we had a good stable of receivers.  DPJ lit it up in TC.  But the starting corners of the league are a different story.  DPJ doesn't light it up against them.  (I like how he catches and holds onto the ball though, which was the knock on him coming out of college)   It's not easy to get open.  Higgins is good for a couple of catches a game.  Apparently he can't get open either.  (reminded of Chris Collinsworth's statement: He's not fast, doesn't run particularly good routes...but he has that chemistry with Baker.  Well, we haven't seen much of a reaction (chemistry term, outcome) from Baker / Higgins.  Like many, I wanted to see what 'another' coach could make out of Higgins.  And so I have.  And apparently the rest of the league not signing him in free agency means they pretty much agree with Collinsworth.  As for Schwartz, he's being your basic rookie...?  And, of course, our center piece, OBJ booked town leaving his 'buddy' Landry without anyone to take some coverage away.  

Perhaps we have a systematic problem with the passing game.  But perhaps we don't have enough talent at the WR position either.  I feel certain that Berry is going to focus on this situation.   

 

[nickers]

15 minutes ago, Orion said:

...I guess, at this point, that's a fair statement, I guess...

 

Yes.  But that's this team.  It's what we've got.  We thought we had a good stable of receivers.  DPJ lit it up in TC.  But the starting corners of the league are a different story.  DPJ doesn't light it up against them.  (I like how he catches and holds onto the ball though, which was the knock on him coming out of college)   It's not easy to get open.  Higgins is good for a couple of catches a game.  Apparently he can't get open either.  (reminded of Chris Collinsworth's statement: He's not fast, doesn't run particularly good routes...but he has that chemistry with Baker.  Well, we haven't seen much of a reaction (chemistry term, outcome) from Baker / Higgins.  Like many, I wanted to see what 'another' coach could make out of Higgins.  And so I have.  And apparently the rest of the league not signing him in free agency means they pretty much agree with Collinsworth.  As for Schwartz, he's being your basic rookie...?  And, of course, our center piece, OBJ booked town leaving his 'buddy' Landry without anyone to take some coverage away.  

Perhaps we have a systematic problem with the passing game.  But perhaps we don't have enough talent at the WR position either.  I feel certain that Berry is going to focus on this situation.   

 

I think Higgins is on drugs... its the only thing I can think of why his production has dropped... Unless he has an undisclosed injury..

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

I didn't ask for a pre-draft profile.  I'm asking what NFL Baker does that is elite.  Elite being top 10.

Again, leave out the cliche'd language.  I guess I also have to include "tough", "competitive" "fiery" etc etc.    The vague shit that doesn't mean much, otherwise Tim Tebow would be the best QB ever.     In your own words, with supporting evidence, please and thank you.  

Yes indeed Tia- a lot can change from pre-draft analysis to 4th year in the NFL.  Cal can take a bow for being on the Josh Allen train pre draft, even though just about everyone (including me who scouted him at Wyoming) said his accuracy sucked. Not the case now, it's improved by orders of magnitude. 

OHOH- the pre draft accuracy of Baker bears no resemblance to the Baker of 2021. Correct me if I'm wrong. He's consistently high or behind his receivers. Doubtless some will bring up the bomb dime he dropped on DPJ, or ditto the zillion yard stroke of luck Hail Mary that he threw as far as he could that came down in DPJ's hands.    

What I pointed out in an earlier post- what concerns me the most about Baker is his mental clock (which IMHO separates the elite NFL qbs from the merely very good) is slowing down- to the point I'd hardly call it "elite".

[hx214]

I remember one time Brandon Weeden over threw a pass to his receiver so badly the refs called intentional grounding on him.

Man I miss the good old days!

[hoorta]

One thought that just occurred to me, that's the latest from Baker crowd...  Just get him a studly WR on top of what we already have, and it's all going to be good!!! As was pointed out- the GOAT won Super Bowls with a WR cast that is arguably no better than what the Browns have now... Sorry Mr. Mayfield- we got you the #1 rushing attack in the NFL (which should make play action a snap) and a studly OL. It's reinforcing the argument that he's no better than a Game Manager type that's only as good as his supporting cast.   

[hoorta]

12 minutes ago, hx214 said:

I remember one time Brandon Weeden over threw a pass to his receiver so badly the refs called intentional grounding on him.

Man I miss the good old days!

No one is saying Baker sucks on the level of a We-Done, Johnny Football, or Deshone Kizer. He's doubtless far better than that suckage. It's the question of whether he's on the level of the top guys, and deserves to be paid as such. 

[hish747]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:23 PM, BaconHound said:

Deserve is a tough word. I tend to agree he doesn’t deserve top money based on his skill set but the question in the NFL is what’s plan B?  QB is the most important and hardest position to procure.

I agree with you that 'deserved' really isn't the right word here. I think the right word is 'earned.' Has Baker earned top money? I've been a Baker fan from the start, but an honest assessment would suggest that he has not yet earned top money. I would offer a middle of the road amount to keep him, simply because he's the best we've had in a long time. He isn't garbage, but he also hasn't shown that he can put the team on his back and win a game that we would've lost without him. 

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

...I guess, at this point, that's a fair statement, I guess...

 

Yes.  But that's this team.  It's what we've got.  We thought we had a good stable of receivers.  DPJ lit it up in TC.  But the starting corners of the league are a different story.  DPJ doesn't light it up against them.  (I like how he catches and holds onto the ball though, which was the knock on him coming out of college)   It's not easy to get open.  Higgins is good for a couple of catches a game.  Apparently he can't get open either.  (reminded of Chris Collinsworth's statement: He's not fast, doesn't run particularly good routes...but he has that chemistry with Baker.  Well, we haven't seen much of a reaction (chemistry term, outcome) from Baker / Higgins.  Like many, I wanted to see what 'another' coach could make out of Higgins.  And so I have.  And apparently the rest of the league not signing him in free agency means they pretty much agree with Collinsworth.  As for Schwartz, he's being your basic rookie...?  And, of course, our center piece, OBJ booked town leaving his 'buddy' Landry without anyone to take some coverage away.  

Perhaps we have a systematic problem with the passing game.  But perhaps we don't have enough talent at the WR position either.  I feel certain that Berry is going to focus on this situation.   

 

OBJ screwed things up he was expected to be the #1 - he still professes that he is…now it slides everyone into a “new” role and they draw the next best CB.  And now we have Landry who is playing dinged up that isn’t a threat he usually is.  DPJ is fine…but he is what he is at this point a #2-#3.

I don’t think Baker reads coverages well at this level…that seems to be the larger issue. 

[Unsympathetic]

4 hours ago, Hunter33109 said:

and watch them on my phone

To anyone who doesn't have this site or this site or this site bookmarked by now to stream sports for free if your local TV isn't carrying them..

 

Do your thing, but you can save money.  Don't be older in-laws I have who pay monthly to Disney+ and Netflix and Amazon Prime and Discovery Plus all in addition to Comcast

[calfoxwc]

It's a team game. The G.O.A.T. had receivers that GOT OPEN, or he would not have had completions. Plain and simple.

and their system had been in place for many years. And putting down Brady's wide receivers ignores the TE position.

Gronk and the outstanding TE before him.

Brady has completed more passes in games to tight ends, than we have blades of grass in our lawn. Before Gronk it was Ben Coates. All pro.

Before that, Russ Francis. All Pro. Brady went to the Bucs, and who goes with him? Gronk. Who do the Patriots have now?

Hunter Henry. Scored two TD's against the Browns. No G.O.A.T. at qb.

So, in 2021, so far, Brady completed 67.4% of his passes. Look at his wr's. Mike Evans, 6'5",225 lbs, First Round Draft pick....All pro in 2016. and Godwin, 3rd round pick, All Pro. in 2019. and Antonio Brown.

and Gronk.

Baker in 2021 so far, completed 65.4% of his passes.

If Baker throws 2 ints in a first quarter, "he isn't a very good qb".

************************************

Brady picked off twice in 1st; Bucs lose to Washington 29 ...

https://wtop.com › washington-football › 2021 › 11 › brady-picked-off-twice-in-1st-bucs-lose-to-washington-29-19

Tom Brady threw two interceptions in the first quarter as part of an implosion by the reigning Super Bowl champions, contributing to Washington upsetting the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 29-19 Sunday ...