Baker Mayfield

[tiamat63]

This front office and coaching staff is desperately going to have to address the RT situation if they want to be able to give whoever the QB is the best shot at success.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bengals can't really get by playing cover 1 much, at least not against the Browns they couldn't.     And Baker couldn't attempt to hold the safety down the middle because Hance at RT is a liability.  Worse, Hance without any help over there is a worse liability.   Given what we saw last night, the stubborn refusal to throw help to Hudson's side until it was glaringly obvious he needed it is concerning to me.   

This is a rare example of a good read and throw by Baker.   Maybe slightly worry-some in the sense he peeped Bates leverage then just went to it, but it's more of a big time throw than it is a turnover worthy throw.  Especially when you consider the ball placement - outside shoulder so the safety, even if he had recovered, likely would have taken a minor miracle to intercept this ball.

But the inability of Baker to hold Bates down the middle longer on this play isn't indicative of Mayfield lacking in this moment, but the protection.   I'm not saying its been an Oline issue all year, it really hasn't.  The overwhelming amount is still on Baker, but these are the things that need to be addressed and cleaned up no matter who is under center.  Otherwise taking deep shots like this and getting a vertical threat like DPJ going becomes more difficult and difficult as the season wears on.

[calfoxwc]

26 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I don't do "narratives", I operate in fact.  So... let's talk fact.

 

- Lamar is having a terrible season and is having trouble sustaining drives in a past first offense.   You yourself have upvoted comments that call him a "RB playing QB"    So why would I want to draw the parallel of Baker and Lamar?  Both are struggling and playing incredibly mediocre.  I've said that before.

- Mahomes started off the year good and then went into an absolute flurry of turnovers that cost the chiefs games.   True to any good to great QB, the problems that ailed his played and held back his team he began to resolve and the Chiefs are once again considered a good team.    In no small part because Mahomes decided to pull his head out of his ass and stop throwing ill-advised passes which sometimes would be brilliant, but other times hurt his team.   Being smart about when to take the former at risk of the latter is crucial... find the balance.   He's also a Superbowl winning QB with a historic start to his career.

- Lawrence is a rookie on the worst team in the NFL.  Why would we want that comparison brought up?   

- Heinicke is an UDFA playing on a bioplar team.   Baker is the former #1 overall pick... again another comparison you really don't want to make.  

- Stafford has had a stretch of questionable games with multiple turnovers yet still found ways to put TD's on the board when needed, including a GW drive this weekend.   He's thrown for 38TD's to 15INT's.   Still better than a 2:1 ratio.

- Herbert has cost his team with his bipolar play at times, but his ceiling has been much higher than the cost of his floor.  4,631 yards 35TD's to 14INT's in a pass first offense by a 2nd year QB.   Again, greater than a 2:1 ratio

- Burrow started out the year incredibly questionable throwing the majority of his picks the first 8 games.  Since that point he's turned it up to 11 and been one of the best young QB's in the NFL despite having his first year cut short by injury.  4,611 yards, 34 TD's to 14INT's.    Still greater than 2:1 ratio.

Carr & Tennehill are above average QB's who aren't good enough to consistently shoulder the load on offense to produce elite teams, I've said that for some time now.    Tannehill also functions behind one of the most medicore Olines in the NFL minus Julio, Brown and Derrick Henry.    I think the good people of Tennessee know that Tanne isn't some long-term franchise savior.    Derek Carr isn't all that far behind.    This isn't the flattering company I need my potential franchise to be in, and if it is I need to be honest about his abilities and pay him according to said abilities.   Which means Tannehill is currently being paid about 8million more than what he's worth.  

The comparison Steve attempted to absolve Baker with was against QB's who have been in the NFL less than half the time of Baker, who have shown flashes of greater ceiling, damn near pro-bowl nod, dismissing that while they've dealt with turnovers, they've had stretches of brilliant play on pass first teams.    Mayfield cannot say the same at any point in his career.

 

It was a limp wristed attempt to say that somehow Baker is comparable those names.  He isn't, save for Lamar, Carr, Tannehill and Heineke.  And those aren't names I want my QB to emulate aside from maybe Carr when he plays out of his mind.   

Bakers turnover problem, and penchant for batted passes (he leads the league in both categories since 2018) is not made up for by the rest of his play.    

 

I don't deal in narratives, I deal in fact.  Baker's play has been deficient since the 2019 season and I've had to watch him make consistently questionable decisions no franchise level QB does for the length of time he has.

Here's a FACT:

You are completely missing out on the surrounding cast of the qb's you mentioned.

Ja'Marr Chase. Three #1 picks at wr for the ratbirds. One of the best TE's in football.

Baker outpassed rapistblogger with fewer passes thrown. That's a fact.

Baker did it with a wr group that can''t compare to the squealer wr group.

Blaming it all on Baker isn't fact, it's venting.

Go around the NFL - other big name qb's don't see their wr's open every time, either.

But plenty of them have receivers that GET OPEN DYNAMICALLY.

Rapistblogger got rid of the ball so FAST. Because his receivers were OPEN a LOT of the time.

FACT: it's a TEAM GAME.

Your pictures only tell the story for that fracture of a moment in time.

HIggins is a good wr ONLY if the defense plays zone. Peoples-Jones is serious business - but

still needs experience to come on strong. 

When Chris Collinsworth says the wr's need to STEP UP - it means they aren't getting it done on THEIR END.

When Doug Dieken says NO wr's are getting open, you should listen.

 

[calfoxwc]

13 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

This front office and coaching staff is desperately going to have to address the RT situation if they want to be able to give whoever the QB is the best shot at success.   

Thank you for agreeing with me. FA, top 3 rounds swing tackle - they need to try again - if Conklin isn't available for whatever reason.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

3 hours ago, LBC mike said:

I just think it's funny the sky is falling mentality.   

That's Cleveland mentality.

[Canton Dawg]

31 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I don't do "narratives", I operate in fact.  So... let's talk fact.

I posted facts, whether you or I agree with them isn’t relevant.

- Lamar is having a terrible season and is having trouble sustaining drives in a past first offense.   You yourself have upvoted comments that call him a "RB playing QB"    So why would I want to draw the parallel of Baker and Lamar?  Both are struggling and playing incredibly mediocre.  I've said that before.

Lamar is having a terrible season…well NO SHIT, so is Baker! You mean Baker isn’t permitted to have a bad season?

- Mahomes started off the year good and then went into an absolute flurry of turnovers that cost the chiefs games.   True to any good to great QB, the problems that ailed his played and held back his team he began to resolve and the Chiefs are once again considered a good team.    In no small part because Mahomes decided to pull his head out of his ass and stop throwing ill-advised passes which sometimes would be brilliant, but other times hurt his team.   Being smart about when to take the former at risk of the latter is crucial... find the balance.   He's also a Superbowl winning QB with a historic start to his career.

So you’re saying Mahomes is having a bad season too! Color me shocked!

- Lawrence is a rookie on the worst team in the NFL.  Why would we want that comparison brought up?   
No comparison, he just happens to have thrown more picks than Baker this year…no surprise.

- Heinicke is an UDFA playing on a bioplar team.   Baker is the former #1 overall pick... again another comparison you really don't want to make.  
Again no comparison, Heinicke has thrown more picks as well.

- Stafford has had a stretch of questionable games with multiple turnovers yet still found ways to put TD's on the board when needed, including a GW drive this weekend.   He's thrown for 38TD's to 15INT's.   Still better than a 2:1 ratio.

Matt Stafford is a veteran that hasn’t really blown my hair back with his play over the years. He’s playing with more talent than Baker, and has thrown more picks this year.

- Herbert has cost his team with his bipolar play at times, but his ceiling has been much higher than the cost of his floor.  4,631 yards 35TD's to 14INT's in a pass first offense by a 2nd year QB.   Again, greater than a 2:1 ratio

Great stats, but you didn’t mention he’s thrown more picks.

- Burrow started out the year incredibly questionable throwing the majority of his picks the first 8 games.  Since that point he's turned it up to 11 and been one of the best young QB's in the NFL despite having his first year cut short by injury.  4,611 yards, 34 TD's to 14INT's.    Still greater than 2:1 ratio.

I’ve been on the Burrow bandwagon since I saw him play for Athens. But again more picks than #6.

Carr & Tennehill are above average QB's who aren't good enough to consistently shoulder the load on offense to produce elite teams, I've said that for some time now.    Tannehill also functions behind one of the most medicore Olines in the NFL minus Julio, Brown and Derrick Henry.    I think the good people of Tennessee know that Tanne isn't some long-term franchise savior.    Derek Carr isn't all that far behind.    This isn't the flattering company I need my potential franchise to be in, and if it is I need to be honest about his abilities and pay him according to said abilities.   Which means Tannehill is currently being paid about 8million more than what he's worth.  

Carr and Tannehill have thrown more picks.

The comparison Steve attempted to absolve Baker with was against QB's who have been in the NFL less than half the time of Baker, who have shown flashes of greater ceiling, damn near pro-bowl nod, dismissing that while they've dealt with turnovers, they've had stretches of brilliant play on pass first teams.    Mayfield cannot say the same at any point in his career.

 

It was a limp wristed attempt to say that somehow Baker is comparable those names.  He isn't, save for Lamar, Carr, Tannehill and Heineke.  And those aren't names I want my QB to emulate aside from maybe Carr when he plays out of his mind.   
I would simply love for you to show me where I said, “Baker is compatible to those names”.

I simply interpreted a list of NFL QB’s that has thrown more interceptions than Mayfield.

Your original premise was about turnovers, unless you’re discussing pastries I would venture to say this is an attempt to move the goal post.

 

Bakers turnover problem, and penchant for batted passes (he leads the league in both categories since 2018) is not made up for by the rest of his play.    

 

I don't deal in narratives, I deal in fact.  Baker's play has been deficient since the 2019 season and I've had to watch him make consistently questionable decisions no franchise level QB does for the length of time he has.

Sounds like you have an issue dealing with the fact that there are more QB’s with interceptions than BM?

CD

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, how many guys ARE open on that play?  Guess we'll just have to let the apologists believe whatever they want to....  

BTW, and I duly noticed this too...  WKNR Goldhammer is a Steeler fan, and even he admitted...  "Is this a football game, or a six hour tribute to Big Ben??"

Goldhammer is a Broncos fan. He's from Denver. But his job is to be the foil.

WSS 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

 "Is this a football game, or a six hour tribute to Big Ben??"

I don’t know how big Roethlisberger’s cock is….but ESPN managed to swallow all of it.

[TexasAg1969]

You can't educate the intentionally ignorant tia. They are just transferring over here because no one tries to engage them anymore where they live for that exact same reason.

[tiamat63]

21 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

 

"This video is about to be a damn hour long because I can't get over throwing a pick to a post safety on a post route"

I've had this sitting on my desktop for over a week now, because I kept going back to that play too.    It's no surprise to me that anybody else with a pair of eyes saw what I did.

 

 

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This is actually similar route structure to the play I drew up from the Brett Kollomann video.  The flood with the skinny po where he claimed OBJ was being used as a "decoy" when he wasn't.   Instead of taking the post 1 on 1 and understanding the principles of how to attack cover 6, Baker took the '7' on that particular play.    It was open and it was a first down, but it was something I argued about failing to maximize your vertical talent.

But In this play, you have that same skinny po which clears out the corner and draws the MFS.   Funny thing is, you can still beat MOTFC closed looks with post combos, but not at this depth, not with your downfield accuracy issues and not with receivers who are still trying to find their footing.     What's worse is Baker had SO much time to look at this play and take the safe, smart and completely wide open throw after he saw Douglas void and Higgins clear under.    Instead he thought the MFS sitting flat footed wouldn't recover.    Usually Baker has enough arm, but this is where I talk about nuance and situational awareness.  Baker lacks it a great deal most of the time.  You're pushing the ball into a look that makes your deep post not a viable route.   Take what's easy, take what's given and save your arm man.   

 

I have no explanation for Bakers thought process here, it defies football I.Q.    When he has a chance to do the smart thing, he rather routinely does the opposite and when he does said opposite it leads to stalled drives and picks that setup opposing offenses on a short field.  

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

You can't educate the intentionally ignorant tia. They are just transferring over here because no one tries to engage them anymore where they live for that exact same reason.

Who?  What?

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Who?  What?

Not you, the other guy. Because if he repeats something 20 times, that makes it correct. What happens is the other folks just get tired of beating their heads against a brick wall and give up.  

[calfoxwc]

25 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Not you, the other guy. Because if he repeats something 20 times, that makes it correct. What happens is the other folks just get tired of beating their heads against a brick wall and give up.  

oh, you mean the guy who smarts off, can't back it up, then goes and has modular hidsies and seeksies instead of

answering the question I posed. So, the "question was wrong, so I had to not answer it".

lol.

what a Baker hater.

 

[Browns149]

40 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Not you, the other guy. Because if he repeats something 20 times, that makes it correct. What happens is the other folks just get tired of beating their heads against a brick wall and give up.  

Sounds as if you have been to the political forum on here

😂😜🤪

[TexasAg1969]

15 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Sounds as if you have been to the trumpulumpigus forum on here.

😂😜🤪

FIFY😂

[Browns149]

22 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

FIFY😂

That works too

[calfoxwc]

59 minutes ago, Browns149 said:

Sounds as if you have been to the political forum on here

😂😜🤪

He left that forum because he got embarrassed. Now, Ja'Marr Chase and the Bengals made him cry "no mas".

He just gets that way sometimes......

 

[Browns149]

50 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

He left that forum because he got embarrassed. Now, Ja'Marr Chase and the Bengals made him cry "no mas".

He just gets that way sometimes......

 

If people left there for being embarrassed, there would be No one left there

[Kvoethe]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker-mayfield-landing-spots-texans-washington-among-potential-destinations-for-browns-qb-in-2022/

 

Possible places for Baker next season..lol

[Browns149]

13 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker-mayfield-landing-spots-texans-washington-among-potential-destinations-for-browns-qb-in-2022/

 

Possible places for Baker next season..lol

Can we trade him to Houston? 

[Browns149]

The thing that I have the most problem with, is Baker is a 1 read QB, if his first read is there, he can fire the ball and be great, but when that isn’t there, he struggles 

People keep saying, he can be good enough when things are going well

But in 2022, you need a guy that can win games, when things are not going well

And Baker has proven that he can’t win games when things are not going well

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

He left that forum because he got embarrassed. Now, Ja'Marr Chase and the Bengals made him cry "no mas".

He just gets that way sometimes......

 

Nope, when the opposing opinion doesn't suit your POV you just keep on keeping on with whataboutism until the other side gives up.  A prime example is you trying to defect the FACT that Baker had a shitful game against the Steelers "Well whatabout Ben had a lousy game too"..   You're hopeless. 

[calfoxwc]

6 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Nope, when the opposing opinion doesn't suit your POV you just keep on keeping on with whataboutism until the other side gives up.  A prime example is you trying to defect the FACT that Baker had a shitful game against the Steelers "Well whatabout Ben had a lousy game too"..   You're hopeless. 

I didn't say that at all. Not a bit. I simply asked you a simple question, and you went quiet. Your ego couldn't handle the truth. Tiam knows his football, and HE couldn't bail you out on that one. Your ego driven assumptions got the best of you on both forums.

Have a nice day.

[Dutch Oven]

12 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

oh, you mean the guy who smarts off, can't back it up, then goes and has modular hidsies and seeksies instead of

answering the question I posed. So, the "question was wrong, so I had to not answer it".

lol.

what a Baker hater.

 

Absolutely no one on here thinks you ever own anyone on any discussion.

Strike that... I suppose if the topic of skinning and cooking a rodent came up, you would be the resident genius on this topic. 

[jrb12711]

Here's where I'm at, in terms of how I see it for 2022

1) If we can get Wilson, Rodgers, or Carr- do it and call it a day. Obviously, the prospect of getting the first two is around 1% but Carr, to me, is a perfect fit for this offense. I think a straight  trade is an intriguing prospect for both teams as well, assuming the Browns dangle a good carrot (say, a 2nd round pick that can turn into a 1st). Raiders might see what Wentz is doing and think Mayfield can be the same? 

1A) Mayfield heals up and the Browns bring in some serious, legit competition. I personally don't see any eye popping free agent QB's who fit that mold, so maybe using the 2nd round pick on a prospect lights that fire under his ass. 

I like both scenarios on their own, but Carr really, really intrigues me. I think he's everything Stefanski wants Baker to be and could be very attainable.

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I didn't say that at all. Not a bit. I simply asked you a simple question, and you went quiet. Your ego couldn't handle the truth. Tiam knows his football, and HE couldn't bail you out on that one. Your ego driven assumptions got the best of you on both forums.

Have a nice day.

Yes you did, you directly compared Baker's performance to Ben's trying to bail out the 53 qbr shit performance Mayfield stunk out the stadium with.  

15 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

He left that forum because he got embarrassed. Now, Ja'Marr Chase and the Bengals made him cry "no mas".

He just gets that way sometimes......

 

Hey, and you can't admit the next great AFC North qb Joe Burrow's 4,600 passing yards and 108 qbr has anything to do with it.  We cry know mas because you're a damn broken record of whataboutism and deflection. FACT You can't even realize when you've been backed into a corner, and some of the crap you've posted has been debunked multiple times by guys who know a hell of a lot more about football than you do, and you just keep spinning away. Your act is getting real old. Legend in your own warped mind. FWIW, I left the political forum because there's too many guys there living in some alternate reality, including one very obvious QAnon nut job. So please do us all a favor and head over to your safe space there where you can spew crap to your heart's content.    

 

[calfoxwc]

22 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yes you did, you directly compared Baker's performance to Ben's trying to bail out the 53 qbr shit performance Mayfield stunk out the stadium with.  

Hey, and you can't admit the next great AFC North qb Joe Burrow's 4,600 passing yards and 108 qbr has anything to do with it.  We cry know mas because you're a damn broken record of whataboutism and deflection. FACT You can't even realize when you've been backed into a corner, and some of the crap you've posted has been debunked multiple times by guys who know a hell of a lot more about football than you do, and you just keep spinning away. Your act is getting real old. Legend in your own warped mind. FWIW, I left the political forum because there's too many guys there living in some alternate reality, including one very obvious QAnon nut job. So please do us all a favor and head over to your safe space there where you can spew crap to your heart's content.    

 

I wasn't comparing, I was countering your egotistical bs. I've watched more football games than a lot of young guys. I simply let you know your "facts" are worthless - because it's a TEAM GAME.  You can't see the forest for the trees. You see one tree  and think the entire forest is that same kind of tree.

Very strange. Other people are entitled to their own opinions. My opinions are sometimes dumb, but they are mine - from observing the Browns and football over the years. Stop trying to use my views on the other forum to distract from me not agreeing with you like a groupie.

   You must be kidding - bragging on Burrow's yards, when he has a 5th overall star wr? lol. I honestly think you are smarter than that. I can answer your football questions.

You are backed into a corner - you refuse to admit that adding Ja'Marr Chase to the offense was an explosion of productivity for Burrow.

    You are looking very foolish here. Bragging on Burrow's stats this year, MAKE MY POINT.

I'll prove it - (although proof is always? lost on you)

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/players/game-log/2020/2179798/joe-burrow/

Everybody on this forum can look - the Bengals, last year, lost THREE, won ONE, Lost THREE, won ONE.

the LOST THREE MORE and he was injured.

So, lol, you can go ahead and give Burrow great big amoochies, but the truth is, Ja'Marr Chase set that offense on fire.

See, they did NOT HAVE A NUMBER ONE last year. Same qb.

Burrow's qb rating LAST YEAR WITHOUT CHASE, he had bad games - 66.1 qb rating, 66.4 ....

nine losses last year, Hoorta. same qb.

So, another question. Do you believe the difference is Ja'Marr Chase or not?

you cherry pick "facts" to fit your ego driven narrative. same old.

It's a team game. Idolizing only the steering wheel, or only blaming the steering wheel, is dumb.

  

[hx214]

4 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Here's where I'm at, in terms of how I see it for 2022

1) If we can get Wilson, Rodgers, or Carr- do it and call it a day. Obviously, the prospect of getting the first two is around 1% but Carr, to me, is a perfect fit for this offense. I think a straight  trade is an intriguing prospect for both teams as well, assuming the Browns dangle a good carrot (say, a 2nd round pick that can turn into a 1st). Raiders might see what Wentz is doing and think Mayfield can be the same? 

1A) Mayfield heals up and the Browns bring in some serious, legit competition. I personally don't see any eye popping free agent QB's who fit that mold, so maybe using the 2nd round pick on a prospect lights that fire under his ass. 

I like both scenarios on their own, but Carr really, really intrigues me. I think he's everything Stefanski wants Baker to be and could be very attainable.

I think Derrick Carr is the only realistic option. But I don't know about giving up a first or 2nd.  I guess it depends on how much/if they want to move on from Baker. I think sticking with Baker and Drafting someone in the 2nd or 3rd might be better.

  I liked Carr more before I saw him play in the game against our backup JV squad. 

[calfoxwc]

11 minutes ago, hx214 said:

I think Derrick Carr is the only realistic option. But I don't know about giving up a first or 2nd.  I guess it depends on how much/if they want to move on from Baker. I think sticking with Baker and Drafting someone in the 2nd or 3rd might be better.

  I liked Carr more before I saw him play in the game against our backup JV squad. 

It is not a great draft for qb's. Next year, yes. A Garrett Wilson would have the similar effect that Chase had with the Bengals. Then, if a healthy Baker isn't up to it - you know the first pick in the 2023 draft will be a qb.

[Unsympathetic]

18 hours ago, Browns149 said:

Baker has proven that he can’t win games

Yep.

PFF on Baker - 10 minutes of outlining Baker regressing and being terrible no matter what his surrounding team consists of. Good O-line? Terrible. Bad O-line? Yep, still terrible.  Get over reality and move on.. Just because someone was good in the past doesn't mean he's going to be good forever.

15 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Your ego couldn't handle the truth.

Every "accusation" you make is 100% projection - it's YOUR ego that can't handle the truth.  At least you're consistent, though -- this is how you are on every forum.

 

As to the actual topic at hand -- Gah.  I don't see how we run this back even next season because Baker is a broken husk of a beaten-down shell of a man.  And Stefanski's playcalling finds a way to make things worse.  One of the few things Browns have gotten correct this season is the decision to go for it on 4th down -- but of course with Baker at QB all the plays themselves are going to be poorly executed.  Tank for CJ Stroud?

Let's make it entertaining this week with 3-step-drop look-right-throw-left timing passes into double coverage.. it couldn't get any worse!

[calfoxwc]

15 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Yep.

PFF on Baker - 10 minutes of outlining Baker regressing and being terrible no matter what his surrounding team consists of. Good O-line? Terrible. Bad O-line? Yep, still terrible.  Get over reality and move on.. Just because someone was good in the past doesn't mean he's going to be good forever.

Every "accusation" you make is 100% projection - it's YOUR ego that can't handle the truth.  At least you're consistent, though -- this is how you are on every forum.

As to the actual topic at hand -- Gah.  I don't see how we run this back even next season because Baker is a broken husk of a beaten-down shell of a man.  And Stefanski's playcalling finds a way to make things worse.  One of the few things Browns have gotten correct this season is the decision to go for it on 4th down -- but of course with Baker at QB all the plays themselves are going to be poorly executed.  Tank for CJ Stroud?

Let's make it entertaining this week with 3-step-drop look-right-throw-left timing passes into double coverage.. it couldn't get any worse!

I couldn't care less to accuse him of anything - ask anyone who knows me...

the other forum - you haven't been there. So there's that. I on the other hand, keep them separate. You should try it.

Disagreeing and asking your hater friend Hoorta hard questions is like being in the movie "Lord of the Flies" - and not being one of the haters. lol