🟫⬜️🟧🟧⬜️🟫Official Gameday Thread Jets at Browns 🟫⬜️🟧🟧⬜️🟫

[hoorta]

14 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't disagree with all this, but there's some big problems at this juncture of the Kevin Stefanski Era. Discipline problems, maturity problems, and accountability problems. 

I like Stefanski, and hope he has a long coaching career here, but if he doesn't get things straightened out, resembling the well-run team of 2020 once again, his coaching reign here is on fumes. 

It's not a good look for your defense to get embarrassed two weeks in a row on long bomb TD passes, with nary a Browns defender in the same area code as the WR.  If it's a communication issue, the defense has four days to learn how to "communicate" with one another.  If there's screw ups like that maybe Woods needs to simplify thing so there's less chance of another breakdown.  

Now the finger pointing has begun...  Sorry Myles, you need to man up and stop ragging on the fans for booing- after you & the defense blew a game you had no business losing. 40 years ago in the Dawg Pound era, the fans would have been throwing batteries at you.  🙄

[SdBacker80]

Can we go back to the sandlot/street/backyard and line up across from a guy and play man?

Denzel, Newsome, Delpit, Emmerson the collective best quality of this group…they all can run. 

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

On special teams we missed a kick and we weren’t lined up correctly on the onside kick.  Watch it we had three at the bottom they had four.  Kevin should called a timeout his coordinator should have been all over that.  

The missed extra point is not the fault of the special teams coach, hell, I doubt any special teams coach honestly knows jack shit about kicking field goals. I get the impression they just tell the kicker to "go over there and kick some balls". 

But the special teams did allow a fake punt to succeed, in a situation that was just screaming "THIS BAD TEAM THAT HAS NOTHING TO LOSE IS GOING TO FAKE THE PUNT." Hell, look back on this thread, I literally wrote WATCH FOR THE FAKE! 

[SdBacker80]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The missed extra point is not the fault of the special teams coach, hell, I doubt any special teams coach honestly knows jack shit about kicking field goals. I get the impression they just tell the kicker to "go over there and kick some balls". 

But the special teams did allow a fake punt to succeed, in a situation that was just screaming "THIS BAD TEAM THAT HAS NOTHING TO LOSE IS GOING TO FAKE THE PUNT." Hell, look back on this thread, I literally wrote WATCH FOR THE FAKE! 

I forgot about the fake.  Yeah that was bad… a player is taught at every level along their journey to the NFL that when a team has a short yardage 4th down situation at midfield it’s the first thing you look for.  

[tiamat63]

15 minutes ago, hoorta said:

.  If there's screw ups like that maybe Woods needs to simplify thing so there's less chance of another breakdown.  

 

Watching the final drive, by my count the Browns have played cover 6 over trips and cover 2 vs 2x2.  Then one call that had a 3x2 to the boundary where they played cover 2.   

It's as simple as it gets.  The problem with that is, simple and repetitive don't go hand in hand because it's SO damn exploitable.  Especially at the end of the game when your pass rush is gassed. 

If there's one HUGE fault I can find with Woods - he should have called a timeout when the Jets crossed midfield the last time and possibly went with some man coverage.   The pass off from chunk plays to time burned was in favor of NYJ at that point.  

[tiamat63]

20 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

 

And Denzel Ward is quoted and thought they were in Cover 2.  If that’s what Woods and Co. called Is that a smart coverage given the situation?

Like the post I had just above this, Yes and No.    But this team has been playing a ton of cover 4 adaptations the last 2 weeks and it's looking a bit stale.   I also hate the idea of giving free releases to fast receivers matched with a tired pass rush and praying your safeties hold up.   Doesn't take much to get a DB to turn his hips the wrong way when you have free reign of your route and extra time to through. 

Myles had a decent game, but there's one thing we're learning as fans - without Clowney, there is no other consistent pass rush threat currently on roster. 

 

23 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

  It blows my mind that woods defenses have had more long gain busted coverages and honestly our talent in the secondary is the best it’s been.

 

The talent is there, the experience isn't.  Grant isn't getting his calls right and his eyes aren't in the right places.  Newsome is forgetting vertical landmark depth and Emerson is still a rookie.  

[Kvoethe]

Saw Herm Edwards was fired after the game.  Still have Woods...laughingstock

[Kvoethe]

https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/1571876208517709824?t=RAhQ9-KRPGUk2JUmN-nqmA&s=19

[Vambo]

Browns' Nick Chubb Takes Responsibility For Collapse Against Jets

The New York Jets benefited from Nick Chubb's decision to score his third touchdown of the game, rather than running out the clock in the fourth quarter.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/cleveland-browns-nick-chubb-takes-responsibility-historic-collapse-new-york-jets

 

"Yeah, I probably shouldn't have scored right there," Chubb told ESPN's Jake Trotter on Tuesday. "Honestly, looking back at it, it cost us the game. A lot of things went wrong, not just one thing. But collectively as a unit, as a team, we could've all done things different. But it's only a problem because we didn't win. So I probably should've went down."

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Vambo said:

Browns' Nick Chubb Takes Responsibility For Collapse Against Jets

The New York Jets benefited from Nick Chubb's decision to score his third touchdown of the game, rather than running out the clock in the fourth quarter.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/cleveland-browns-nick-chubb-takes-responsibility-historic-collapse-new-york-jets

 

"Yeah, I probably shouldn't have scored right there," Chubb told ESPN's Jake Trotter on Tuesday. "Honestly, looking back at it, it cost us the game. A lot of things went wrong, not just one thing. But collectively as a unit, as a team, we could've all done things different. But it's only a problem because we didn't win. So I probably should've went down."

 

DON'T beat yourself up Nick... When you come right down to it, the object of the game is to score as many points as possible. Up 14 with less than 2 minutes left should have been plenty enough.  

[bjh2130]

12 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Watching the final drive, by my count the Browns have played cover 6 over trips and cover 2 vs 2x2.  Then one call that had a 3x2 to the boundary where they played cover 2.   

It's as simple as it gets.  The problem with that is, simple and repetitive don't go hand in hand because it's SO damn exploitable.  Especially at the end of the game when your pass rush is gassed. 

If there's one HUGE fault I can find with Woods - he should have called a timeout when the Jets crossed midfield the last time and possibly went with some man coverage.   The pass off from chunk plays to time burned was in favor of NYJ at that point.  

I haven't watched the all 22 but my thought after thinking about it sunday afternoon was that deeo coverage very well could have been a cover 6 with delpit and ward being the cover 2 side and ward was playing curl flats with a potential mable to one side of the field

[tiamat63]

16 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

I haven't watched the all 22 but my thought after thinking about it sunday afternoon was that deeo coverage very well could have been a cover 6 with delpit and ward being the cover 2 side and ward was playing curl flats with a potential mable to one side of the field

That's almost exactly what it was. 

Only Denzel was very generous in his depth on his side, protecting the sideline.  Delpit dropped like it was a 2 read, robbing curl to post, and didn't get back over top.

 

Edit: let me phrase that by saying- strong side of the formation is playing quarters rules 4 over 3.   On the weak side everyone except Delpit, appears to be playing cover 2 rules.  

I said this before - this defense has some issues. But right now, Grant Delpits play is the largest of those issues. 

[Korsou Dawg]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The missed extra point is not the fault of the special teams coach, hell, I doubt any special teams coach honestly knows jack shit about kicking field goals. I get the impression they just tell the kicker to "go over there and kick some balls". 

But the special teams did allow a fake punt to succeed, in a situation that was just screaming "THIS BAD TEAM THAT HAS NOTHING TO LOSE IS GOING TO FAKE THE PUNT." Hell, look back on this thread, I literally wrote WATCH FOR THE FAKE! 

Re PAT: I distinctly remember a defender charging at York from the left side, about two or three steps away from the ball. Presumably that made him rush his kick. That breakdown in protection is on the coach's plate. 

Didn't anyone else notice that? Maybe @tiamat63in his video review? 

[tiamat63]

10 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Re PAT: I distinctly remember a defender charging at York from the left side, about two or three steps away from the ball. Presumably that made him rush his kick. That breakdown in protection is on the coach's plate. 

Didn't anyone else notice that? Maybe @tiamat63in his video review? 

Haven't gotten to it yet.  But I can. 

 

Edit: wanted to toss this out there too. It's going to be difficult reviewing interceptions this season. Because I'm currently emailing an NFL.com rep on why they have either removed, or are not uploading plays that ended in interceptions on the coaches film.  And I mean at all. I can watch fumbles and safeties, but I can't view interceptions. 

It appears to be intentional. The only question I have is, 'why'? 

[Korsou Dawg]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

DON'T beat yourself up Nick... When you come right down to it, the object of the game is to score as many points as possible. Up 14 with less than 2 minutes left should have been plenty enough.  

I like that he took ownership here. Maybe that attitude will rub off on some of the ladies that were whining about being booed.

And it was clearly a mistake. Even Flacco mentioned they wouldn't have won if Chubb just took the first and let the clock run. As I mentioned before, it is easy to forgive him, the way our offense leans on him, but it should be recognized as a mistake. That attention to detail and situational awareness will be required in order to have a chance to win the big one in the coming seasons.  

[Korsou Dawg]

3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Haven't gotten to it yet.  But I can. 

Up to you to decide if it is relevant enough. Based on what I saw, it was more a protection issue, rather than a rookie kicker 'just' missing the PAT.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Re PAT: I distinctly remember a defender charging at York from the left side, about two or three steps away from the ball. Presumably that made him rush his kick. That breakdown in protection is on the coach's plate. 

Didn't anyone else notice that? Maybe @tiamat63in his video review? 

I didn't notice it, however my co season ticket holder saw exactly what you're describing.  

[bjh2130]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

That's almost exactly what it was. 

Only Denzel was very generous in his depth on his side, protecting the sideline.  Delpit dropped like it was a 2 read, robbing curl to post, and didn't get back over top.

 

Edit: let me phrase that by saying- strong side of the formation is playing quarters rules 4 over 3.   On the weak side everyone except Delpit, appears to be playing cover 2 rules.  

I said this before - this defense has some issues. But right now, Grant Delpits play is the largest of those issues. 

Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I now you did a break down on discord. Do you happen to have a screen shot of the all 22 look showing it

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Up to you to decide if it is relevant enough. Based on what I saw, it was more a protection issue, rather than a rookie kicker 'just' missing the PAT.

I'm happy to take requests like any good D.J.    on my list of relevants, it wasn't the highest priority, but I'll get it looked at and get back to you.

 

27 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I now you did a break down on discord. Do you happen to have a screen shot of the all 22 look showing it

At the moment, no screenshots. But I'll put a few in the discord for you.

 I'll tell you (any one one else following along) now. I've been kicking this around for a long while, and I have a couple friends/former teammates who have been begging me to get into it - but I'm going to be less present here with breakdowns by frame and I'll be investing time into developing video and a corresponding YouTube channel with it.  

 My computer sucks, but I have a friend who is good with them who is going to give it some juice and teach me how to use OBS studio, video/audio capture and editing so I can produce a quality offering focused overwhelmingly on the Brownies.   I think the benefit of being team specific means you have a greater command of their personnel, a more intimate understanding of not only present, but the past and potentially the future as well.  Because of that, I don't intend on putting myself on a deadline to create this type of informative content. Removing the time constraint will give me the freedom to develop videos and information that are not only accurate, but stand the test of time in my assessments.  

 I've also done a bit of testing on how many hours per week I'd have to dedicate to be comfortable putting accurate work out there...  Needless to say, it's pretty significant.  So like I said, that means less time here.  So don't hesitate to check back in on the discord channel itself from time to time or if you see me in there. 

I'll have more of a formal announcement, which I'll also share on this board, at a later time. 

[jiggins7919]

On 9/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Jim Donovan just killed the Browns for 60 minutes on Redzone.

He had exactly zero fucks to give. 

He channeled my exact feelings. 

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Re PAT: I distinctly remember a defender charging at York from the left side, about two or three steps away from the ball. Presumably that made him rush his kick. That breakdown in protection is on the coach's plate. 

Didn't anyone else notice that? Maybe @tiamat63in his video review? 

 

6 over 5 from the long-snappers left shoulder. Wyatt Teller does an alright job getting the smallest check on the free rush edge without giving up the inside push.  The latter something he absolutely cannot do unless he wants to get Appy State'd type blocked.  At that point it's between snap count and execution vs the jump and speed of the free rusher. 

NYJ actually had tried the same thing on the extra point from the Browns 2nd TD, only they used the alignment to the right side instead of the left - Cade put that one right down the middle.

Nothing you won't see a few hundred times over the course of an NFL season.  Doesn't look like anybody got a finger on it.  So whatever pressure there was boils down to a rookie kicker having to execute in situations where it is quite literally a game of inches. 

[Orion]

Chubb is accepting blame.   And I like it.  He was smart enough to do it once before.  He could've got the 1st and gone ob.   We then take knees.  It's a hard way to learn a lesson.  I love Chubb....but he knows better.

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, Orion said:

Chubb is accepting blame.   And I like it.  He was smart enough to do it once before.  He could've got the 1st and gone ob.   We then take knees.  It's a hard way to learn a lesson.  I love Chubb....but he knows better.

True; or, he could have gone down to a knee at the 1 yard line so the clock kept ran to the 2 minute warning.  Just another example of Chubb being the ideal LEADER by example and accountability.  Accepting blame is hard to do as we've seen with our defense - which can lead to finger pointing, trust issues and a lack of cohesiveness.

The truth of the matter is - Chubb adding 7 points to make the lead 13 points on a team running out of time outs with only 2 minutes remaining wasn't why this team lost. BUT, this was a very clever and classy way (even if not intentionally) for Chubb to show the veteran knuckleheads on DEFENSE - this team is in desperate need of good veteran leadership beginning with accountability.  It was supposed to be Joe Flacco, not Joe Montana out there.  They were supposed to be the same team that had only 17 points on the board for 58 minutes, which should mean 14 points in 2 minutes without any timeouts is very improbable. 

Another part of me is very disappointed to see it took the workhorse that scored 3 TDs volunteering to be the bad guy because there wasn't 1 veteran player on defense capable of doing that.  As much as Myles Garrett can be a difference maker, he can also disappear at the worst of times on us (ie; calling out the fans for booing when they paid a lot of money to watch the defense flat line twice in 2 minutes is NOT getting it all Myles!) That defense should have had a behind closed doors (players only) meeting; and maybe they did... We'll see how they respond and what they're made of tonight.

[Orion]

11 minutes ago, Flugel said:

he could have gone down to a knee at the 1 yard line so the clock kept ran to the 2 minute warning.

The clock read 2:02 before the ball was snapped so it didn't matter if he went down in or out of bounds.

[Zombo]

Someone start this week's thread ... I don't want my bad mojo to carryover...

Z

[Flugel]

9 minutes ago, Orion said:

The clock read 2:02 before the ball was snapped so it didn't matter if he went down in or out of bounds.

Sorry about that!  I said that thinking there was 2:02 after the run and it would have got them to the 2 minute warning,  My bad.

[syd]

On 9/18/2022 at 2:05 PM, nickers said:

I told you people Briquet is PURE SHIT!

596 passing yards 4 td's 1 int passing rating 94.3  ya your right he sucks  maybe we should trade for baker cause he sure is tearing it up in carolina

[Flugel]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:09 PM, syd said:

596 passing yards 4 td's 1 int passing rating 94.3  ya your right he sucks  maybe we should trade for baker cause he sure is tearing it up in carolina

4 TDs:1 INT ratio for a backup QB?   If anyone is complaining about that - there is a 0% chance of reasoning with them Syd. 

[Dutch Oven]

35 minutes ago, Flugel said:

4 TDs:1 INT ratio for a backup QB?   If anyone is complaining about that - there is a 0% chance of reasoning with them Syd. 

As I've said too many times on here tegarding this specific poster - consider the source. 

[Flugel]

On 9/19/2022 at 9:30 AM, nickers said:

This guy was hired because part of his resume was Secondary specialist... so far after 3 years... The secondary has not changed except some of the faces are different.

The last time the Browns were in the playoffs did they have any trouble intercepting Pittsburgh's QB 4 times?  Even Santa Claus isn't that nice to Cleveland...  I don't give the first Rat who was back in the secondary that night because the pressure they brought up front was relentless and impressive.  Pitt got some junk-time points and stats after the game had already already been decided. Someone said "yeah but Big Ben threw for over 500 yards" to which I replied yeah but his most reliable receivers were wearing Brown and Orange all night.  

Nicks, whoever told you the only way this team is ever going to look like it has caught fire is to put Tabasco Sauce in your eyes right before opening kickoff gave you horrible advice.  That ain't working.  

I'm going to say this 1 more time.  That team that made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs in January of 2021 was basically a Hollywood Higgins' fumble at the 1" line for a touchback away from being in an AFC Championship Game.  The 1st playoff win was without our Head Coach meaning?  The Offensive and Defensive Coordinators were quite promising.  Let's try to stop flying off the handle every week about who sucks or needs to be fired this early on in a year we only had 3 preseason games.

I think we have talent in our secondary if we can get them a little more professional with their communications and pre-snap cues/keys.  If our FO wants it to look like we're attacking passers/defending running games with more than just pawns - let's bring in some legit DTs to prevent such a thing. 

Let's see what happens moving forward....