🟫⬜️🟧🟧⬜️🟫Official Gameday Thread Jets at Browns 🟫⬜️🟧🟧⬜️🟫

[Canton Dawg]

So the Browns “D” gives up 17 points in the 4th quarter against the Panthers & Jets.

Time to show Mr Woods the door.

On a side note, all of the AFC North teams lost today.

[hoorta]

27 minutes ago, Orion said:

We went ahead by 13 with 2 minutes to go and the Jets had no time outs?   And we lost?   Jesus Joseph and Mary, that's bad.  And our defense was supposed to hold us together until are starting QB was to be available.  And instead, the backup QB held it together and the D whiffed.   sonuvabitch!

If you haven't seen the blown coverage yet that gave the Jets a 66 yard gift touchdown, it's going to make you ill... WRs aren't supposed to get that wide open in the NFL  EVER. 

It took incredible bad luck...  Can't even recover an onside kick... 

[Westside Steve]

I would never bet against the Browns but at the 2 minute mark the couple of guys I watch with regularly responding the same old Browns thing. I didn't think they could choke that badly so I bet five bucks with each on the browns. Oh well. Shit happens. The football gods were generous to them last week they must have pissed them off.

PS I was worried about the same old Clowney getting hurt when he decided to sign.

WSS

[LeftEdge]

Joe Woods is the dumbest mother fucker in the league. He couldn't solve an escape room if it was made out of a paper bag. He's scared of blankets because they actually cover something. His wife still ties his shoes. Sincerely fuck that guy. We've drafted how many defensive backs over the past few years and this is what we have to show for it? Have we ever cut or replaced a single Andrew Berry pick?  We live with these assholes who have such limited, one dimensional talent and wonder why we get exposed. I'm just a year shy of 40 and I can honestly say this is the most embarrassing loss I've had the misfortune of witnessing. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

22 minutes ago, LeftEdge said:

Joe Woods is the dumbest mother fucker in the league. He couldn't solve an escape room if it was made out of a paper bag. He's scared of blankets because they actually cover something. His wife still ties his shoes. Sincerely fuck that guy. We've drafted how many defensive backs over the past few years and this is what we have to show for it? Have we ever cut or replaced a single Andrew Berry pick?  We live with these assholes who have such limited, one dimensional talent and wonder why we get exposed. I'm just a year shy of 40 and I can honestly say this is the most embarrassing loss I've had the misfortune of witnessing. 

Stefanski is the problem. Coordinators are coffee fetchers, nothing more.

[LeftEdge]

1 minute ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Stefanski is the problem. Coordinators are coffee fetchers, nothing more.

Oh yeah Kevin in his infinite wisdom let hardly any starter play a single preseason snap since they are such savvy veterans. God forbid we see this shit and possibly correct it before the games count. Nope let's get torched for a few weeks and then we can maybe possibly make some changes so we can limit the times we are a national embarrassment to a handful.

[Westside Steve]

5 hours ago, LeftEdge said:

Oh yeah Kevin in his infinite wisdom let hardly any starter play a single preseason snap since they are such savvy veterans. God forbid we see this shit and possibly correct it before the games count. Nope let's get torched for a few weeks and then we can maybe possibly make some changes so we can limit the times we are a national embarrassment to a handful.

Which is a League wide problem I have to guess. The nflpa unfortunately aims for more money and less work for the stars. I get it and I really understand it. It's just that I don't think that it's good for the final show. I know the starters don't like the extra work but you wind up missing cues and getting hurt because you're not in as good of shape as you should be?

As far as stefanski? Hard to tell in this organization. Seems like they more than most have a chain of command leadership by committee. If his game plan is in any way dictated by Jimmy  Andrew Berry  DeePodesta or Dee as I have suspected over the years then he's too weak for the job.

WSS

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I absolutely loved the passing game today. Brissett was so efficient and accurate. 

I have a feeling, though, that this defensive collapse is something we are still talking about 10 years from now. I remember being pissed off about that 2001 Bears game almost up to the kickoff of the next game. I'm too old for that shit now, that or I have no real optimism for this season now that Watson is suspended for 2/3 of it. 

Well said!

Did our special teams even practice this week?  Situational football everywhere BUT Cleveland shows us the Jets tried a pass on 3rd and 1 knowing they're right near midfield, also knowing they're going to take 2 shots at getting 1 yard against a far less prepared opponent regardless of what formation they lined up in on 4th down.  If anyone remembers the last time the Jets beat us in the last few years - that kid Berrios returned either a punt or a kickoff for a TD.  Why did our STs Coordinator have our kicker putting air under the kickoffs so that kid could have a shot at repeating history when our kicker can easily kick them out of the end zone? Our punter kicked ass IMO but outkicking coverages with a dangerous return man like that can lead to trouble.  Fortunately, we had a real long one go out of bounds for no return later in the game so that was 1 thing to be happy about. 

Having said that, the Browns missed an extra point.  Also, they weren't any more prepared for the onside kick than they were for the fake punt earlier in the game. That old saying, "it's not about the size of the dog in the fight - it's about the size of the fight in the dog" you just witnessed it. That starts with your week of preparation or lack there of.  It also shows up in who outhustles who for any loose footballs on the ground.  It also starts with the self responsibility EACH PROFESSIONAL has to learn from his previous mistakes.   

Do you know what leads to a lot of arm tackles and bad open field tackling?  Guys aren't reading their pre-snap cues so when passes are completed while they are out of position to defend them, they now have to hustle to the ball which often shows them unable to square up to make the tackle in lieu of desperately reaching out to grab someone they aren't in position to tackle.  That's what often happens when you see a defender running past the guy he is supposed to tackle.  You play football with your eyes or you fail folks.  Our defense isn't playing football with their eyes.  I hate to say it this early, but there should be a short leash on Grant Delpit this week. A lot of people spent all last week only worrying about Brissett.  He PREPARED for the Jets a lot better than some of the starters on that freakin defense and maybe even some of our coaches on defense and special teams.  But hey, if some of you only want to worry about Brissett - feel free to waste your energy again this week!

If someone beats the Browns because they are better - I can live with that somewhat.  If someone beats the Browns because they out-prepared them and remained the hungrier dog in the fight overall - I'm very disappointed.  

[mjp28]

33 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Well said!

Did our special teams even practice this week? ......

....If someone beats the Browns because they are better - I can live with that somewhat.  If someone beats the Browns because they out-prepared them and remained the hungrier dog in the fight overall - I'm very disappointed.  

I sure hope special teams practice was NOT just like this......  "listen up guys".....

● Now onside kicks only work ??%  of the time.  No problem there.

● We have a great kicker, he made a 58 yard kick last week.

●  Nobody misses extra point attempts,  well almost never..

● Nobody blows a 14 point lead with our defense, well a 13 point lead.  

Well the barn door was left open that horse got away, not coming back. 

GO BROWNS,   just shake it off, win on Thursday Night Football  !

 

 

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Stefanski is the problem. Coordinators are coffee fetchers, nothing more.

Whether you are right or wrong Ghoolie, I'll get right to the question I always ask people thinking all we need is to fire the current Head Coach to hire the next Head Coach - Who hired him?  Who will be in charge of hiring the alleged upgrade?  If this was all we needed to do - wouldn't it have worked by now?  

Not for nothing, WHY didn't this organization RESEARCH DeShaun Watson "more than they ever researched any other QB prospect" back when the Browns had the 1st overall pick in the draft in 2017?  Wouldn't that have been a GREAT time to do that when he wouldn't have had to give up 3 first round draft picks and wait 11 games for a suspension to complete before putting the guy/starter on the field?  And how about this one?  Doing so, also would have meant the Browns would have only had to give him a contract that fit under the rookie salary cap vrs guaranteeing him $230 million of cap space.  When I hard that nonsense coming out of Haslam's mouth I though - have you even noticed all of the AFC North Teams have gone to Super Bowls with QBs they drafted?  This franchise has had the draft position to draft Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson (before he was massaged), and countless others; but they've never put in the time or patience required to fully research/go after the RIGHT QB with upside vrs best football played in the rear view mirror/college.  That's why we're waiting 9 more weeks on a suspension until the Browns can play their starting QB.  

 

 

[tiamat63]

Few things I'm kicking around this morning. 

 

- Does Delpit return to his big nickel role and Harrison overtake the spot Delpit has?  Removes having a better athlete and also some of the size Harrison brings as a de facto nickel/dime backer in certain sets.  But also means you remove having a potential issue of busts vs simple looks.

- IDL is going to be a glaring weakness Thursday. Short week, questionable QB and oline play from the Steelers.   For anyone following along with my work, on paper the secondary and pass rush are quality. But the IDL is average at best.   And just like 2020 and 2021, the grind of a season will only reduce their already limited effectiveness.   This puts a ton of strain on your secondary to be perfect every play.  Is anything in the works to address this via late trade? I hope Berry see's what is coming, because there's a great deal of recent history to foreshadow it.

 

- Jets have a good young team in the making.  Early returns say they hit a home run this draft with Wilson and Sauce.  Just need to find a QB and get healthy on the Oline.  But their skill positions are solid and their Dline is pretty good.

- I know the late coverage bust is on everyone's mind, but I keep coming back to that flat TD to, I believe Reece? in the late 2nd qtr?  I want to go back and see who the boundary safety was.  If it was Delpit, I'd bet he gave the wrong check to Ward because when facing a 1 fast, 1back set with a reduced split from the WR against quarters is an automatic check to something like a c2. It's just too easy to get a back outside and flat for cheap yards off a little rub vs a curl/flat backer. Especially so close to the redzone.  And I keep wondering why Ward chased the #1 inside and voided flat.   

 

Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. 

 

All 22 should be out around 5pm EST.  Gives me time to get done with work, hit the gym and try to find some answers.   As usual, if anybody is on TBB discord, you're welcomed to join me as we hunt for answers. 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Few things I'm kicking around this morning. 

 

- Does Delpit return to his big nickel role and Harrison overtake the spot Delpit has?  Removes having a better athlete and also some of the size Harrison brings as a de facto nickel/dime backer in certain sets.  But also means you remove having a potential issue of busts vs simple looks.

- IDL is going to be a glaring weakness Thursday. Short week, questionable QB and oline play from the Steelers.   For anyone following along with my work, on paper the secondary and pass rush are quality. But the IDL is average at best.   And just like 2020 and 2021, the grind of a season will only reduce their already limited effectiveness.   This puts a ton of strain on your secondary to be perfect every play.  Is anything in the works to address this via late trade? I hope Berry see's what is coming, because there's a great deal of recent history to foreshadow it.

 

- Jets have a good young team in the making.  Early returns say they hit a home run this draft with Wilson and Sauce.  Just need to find a QB and get healthy on the Oline.  But their skill positions are solid and their Dline is pretty good.

- I know the late coverage bust is on everyone's mind, but I keep coming back to that flat TD to, I believe Reece? in the late 2nd qtr?  I want to go back and see who the boundary safety was.  If it was Delpit, I'd bet he gave the wrong check to Ward because when facing a 1 fast, 1back set with a reduced split from the WR against quarters is an automatic check to something like a c2. It's just too easy to get a back outside and flat for cheap yards off a little rub vs a curl/flat backer. Especially so close to the redzone.  And I keep wondering why Ward chased the #1 inside and voided flat.   

 

Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. 

 

All 22 should be out around 5pm EST.  Gives me time to get done with work, hit the gym and try to find some answers.   As usual, if anybody is on TBB discord, you're welcomed to join me as we hunt for answers. 

This guy was hired because part of his resume was Secondary specialist... so far after 3 years... The secondary has not changed except some of the faces are different.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Whether you are right or wrong Ghoolie, I'll get right to the question I always ask people thinking all we need is to fire the current Head Coach to hire the next Head Coach - Who hired him?  Who will be in charge of hiring the alleged upgrade?  If this was all we needed to do - wouldn't it have worked by now?  

Not for nothing, WHY didn't this organization RESEARCH DeShaun Watson "more than they ever researched any other QB prospect" back when the Browns had the 1st overall pick in the draft in 2017?  Wouldn't that have been a GREAT time to do that when he wouldn't have had to give up 3 first round draft picks and wait 11 games for a suspension to complete before putting the guy/starter on the field?  And how about this one?  Doing so, also would have meant the Browns would have only had to give him a contract that fit under the rookie salary cap vrs guaranteeing him $230 million of cap space.  When I hard that nonsense coming out of Haslam's mouth I though - have you even noticed all of the AFC North Teams have gone to Super Bowls with QBs they drafted?  This franchise has had the draft position to draft Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson (before he was massaged), and countless others; but they've never put in the time or patience required to fully research/go after the RIGHT QB with upside vrs best football played in the rear view mirror/college.  That's why we're waiting 9 more weeks on a suspension until the Browns can play their starting QB.  

 

 

Tom, life is simple.

1) All shit in life, starts at the top. 

2) Get rid of the shit.

I heard this same argument when I called for Crennell to be fired after 1 qtr or preseason, and Hue after 1 qtr or preseason. 

Blocking, tackling, catching, passing and kicking are not things to be "worked on". Discipline is not something to be "worked on."

These things are taken for granted.

I hired and fired 5 plant managers in 13 months 2021-2022. I didn't waste time trying to analyze why the first 4 fucktards I hired didn't work out.

Life is simple. I hire you and I want result X. If you don't deliver it, I will fuck your daughters, fire you and hire another fucktard.

Life is too short to try an analyze why a human being succeeds or fails. 

If what.you have is shit. Flush it, and keep flushing until.you get what you want.

THAT is how you build success and continuity. You cling to what works. This mental masturbation of trying to dissect what isn't working and fix it is the process of imbeciles

Who gives a fuck who hired Stefanski? What difference does it make? Romeo, Hue, Stefanski? Shit, all shit.

Jesus Christ this team is run by losers.

 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Few things I'm kicking around this morning. 

 

- Does Delpit return to his big nickel role and Harrison overtake the spot Delpit has?  Removes having a better athlete and also some of the size Harrison brings as a de facto nickel/dime backer in certain sets.  But also means you remove having a potential issue of busts vs simple looks.

- IDL is going to be a glaring weakness Thursday. Short week, questionable QB and oline play from the Steelers.   For anyone following along with my work, on paper the secondary and pass rush are quality. But the IDL is average at best.   And just like 2020 and 2021, the grind of a season will only reduce their already limited effectiveness.   This puts a ton of strain on your secondary to be perfect every play.  Is anything in the works to address this via late trade? I hope Berry see's what is coming, because there's a great deal of recent history to foreshadow it.

 

- Jets have a good young team in the making.  Early returns say they hit a home run this draft with Wilson and Sauce.  Just need to find a QB and get healthy on the Oline.  But their skill positions are solid and their Dline is pretty good.

- I know the late coverage bust is on everyone's mind, but I keep coming back to that flat TD to, I believe Reece? in the late 2nd qtr?  I want to go back and see who the boundary safety was.  If it was Delpit, I'd bet he gave the wrong check to Ward because when facing a 1 fast, 1back set with a reduced split from the WR against quarters is an automatic check to something like a c2. It's just too easy to get a back outside and flat for cheap yards off a little rub vs a curl/flat backer. Especially so close to the redzone.  And I keep wondering why Ward chased the #1 inside and voided flat.   

 

Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. 

 

All 22 should be out around 5pm EST.  Gives me time to get done with work, hit the gym and try to find some answers.   As usual, if anybody is on TBB discord, you're welcomed to join me as we hunt for answers. 

Yes, you catch your wife sucking the neighbors cocktail, but you stay with her because there really are no other chicks on your horizon. BRILLIANT!

[Neo]

Either way, there needs to be some heads rolling after a loss like this. All they had to do was salt the clock away and they had the win. They just handed the Jets the game on a silver platter. 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

This guy was hired because part of his resume was Secondary specialist... so far after 3 years... The secondary has not changed except some of the faces are different.

I mentioned this yesterday dating back to 2020 I can’t recall a time where we’ve had so many busted coverages and then Finger pointing and chasing in the secondary.  We don’t look organized…I think we have some athletic guys back there.  Maybe you simplify things especially in big situations….man on man on man. Last year it was excuses new guys together Yada yada…we basically brought back the same group…maybe the group and staff are the problem? 

The jets could steal 8-10 yards on everything underneath early and we TEs and backs leaking out freely unattended and then with Under 2 to play and the opposing team has no timeouts we let a guy get behind us?

[FY56]

2 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Tom, life is simple.

1) All shit in life, starts at the top. 

2) Get rid of the shit.

I heard this same argument when I called for Crennell to be fired after 1 qtr or preseason, and Hue after 1 qtr or preseason. 

Blocking, tackling, catching, passing and kicking are not things to be "worked on". Discipline is not something to be "worked on."

These things are taken for granted.

I hired and fired 5 plant managers in 13 months 2021-2022. I didn't waste time trying to analyze why the first 4 fucktards I hired didn't work out.

Life is simple. I hire you and I want result X. If you don't deliver it, I will fuck your daughters, fire you and hire another fucktard.

Life is too short to try an analyze why a human being succeeds or fails. 

If what.you have is shit. Flush it, and keep flushing until.you get what you want.

THAT is how you build success and continuity. You cling to what works. This mental masturbation of trying to dissect what isn't working and fix it is the process of imbeciles

Who gives a fuck who hired Stefanski? What difference does it make? Romeo, Hue, Stefanski? Shit, all shit.

Jesus Christ this team is run by losers.

 

Good to have another voice of reason.

Players having played from pee wee thru college, discipline and fundamentals should already be engrained in their heads.

There's something incredibly wrong with coaches having to teach fundamentals and instill discipline into million-dollar professionals.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Tom, life is simple.

1) All shit in life, starts at the top. 

2) Get rid of the shit.

Who gives a fuck who hired Stefanski? What difference does it make? Romeo, Hue, Stefanski? Shit, all shit.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say except the stuff that made me spit my soup out.  But it was worth the read so thanks!

Things are simple for most other teams the last 3 decades,  Unfortunately Tom, the guy that hired Stefanski is the same guy that will hire the next HC using the same exact criteria or lack thereof.  That's why that is significant.  That's the stuff leading the Titanic into a glacier - only this time they don't have the excuse it was too dark to see.  

Well, here's the adversity against what is supposed to be one of the weaker opponents on the schedule.  Their defense is good but their offense won't overwhelm many, if any, secondaries, beside the Browns.  They better giddyup and get after it.

 

 

[Bob806]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Few things I'm kicking around this morning. 

 

 

- Jets have a good young team in the making.  Early returns say they hit a home run this draft with Wilson and Sauce.  Just need to find a QB and get healthy on the Oline.  But their skill positions are solid and their Dline is pretty good.

- I know the late coverage bust is on everyone's mind, but I keep coming back to that flat TD to, I believe Reece? in the late 2nd qtr?  I want to go back and see who the boundary safety was.  If it was Delpit, I'd bet he gave the wrong check to Ward because when facing a 1 fast, 1back set with a reduced split from the WR against quarters is an automatic check to something like a c2. It's just too easy to get a back outside and flat for cheap yards off a little rub vs a curl/flat backer. Especially so close to the redzone.  And I keep wondering why Ward chased the #1 inside and voided flat.   ...right!! We rushed 3 guys, so it leaves 8 in coverage to basically cover 5 WRs. Think about it, an 8 on 5 matchup and the guy walks in uncontested. Horrible.

 

Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. Agree. I just don't get how Woods got the D ti improve last year, but they're basically back to the early 2021 D, with only one "new guy" in Emerson.  Quite simply, I think our secondary isn't very intelligent- what else could it really be? I don't think that Woods is scheming to allow open targets.

 

 

 

[jiggins7919]

I don't think I possess the maturity required to make an educated statement right now that is devoid of curse words. I'll be back to the board shortly. 😂😂

[MDDawg]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Well said!

Did our special teams even practice this week?  Situational football everywhere BUT Cleveland shows us the Jets tried a pass on 3rd and 1 knowing they're right near midfield, also knowing they're going to take 2 shots at getting 1 yard against a far less prepared opponent regardless of what formation they lined up in on 4th down.  If anyone remembers the last time the Jets beat us in the last few years - that kid Berrios returned either a punt or a kickoff for a TD.  Why did our STs Coordinator have our kicker putting air under the kickoffs so that kid could have a shot at repeating history when our kicker can easily kick them out of the end zone? Our punter kicked ass IMO but outkicking coverages with a dangerous return man like that can lead to trouble.  Fortunately, we had a real long one go out of bounds for no return later in the game so that was 1 thing to be happy about. 

Having said that, the Browns missed an extra point.  Also, they weren't any more prepared for the onside kick than they were for the fake punt earlier in the game. That old saying, "it's not about the size of the dog in the fight - it's about the size of the fight in the dog" you just witnessed it. That starts with your week of preparation or lack there of.  It also shows up in who outhustles who for any loose footballs on the ground.  It also starts with the self responsibility EACH PROFESSIONAL has to learn from his previous mistakes.   

Do you know what leads to a lot of arm tackles and bad open field tackling?  Guys aren't reading their pre-snap cues so when passes are completed while they are out of position to defend them, they now have to hustle to the ball which often shows them unable to square up to make the tackle in lieu of desperately reaching out to grab someone they aren't in position to tackle.  That's what often happens when you see a defender running past the guy he is supposed to tackle.  You play football with your eyes or you fail folks.  Our defense isn't playing football with their eyes.  I hate to say it this early, but there should be a short leash on Grant Delpit this week. A lot of people spent all last week only worrying about Brissett.  He PREPARED for the Jets a lot better than some of the starters on that freakin defense and maybe even some of our coaches on defense and special teams.  But hey, if some of you only want to worry about Brissett - feel free to waste your energy again this week!

If someone beats the Browns because they are better - I can live with that somewhat.  If someone beats the Browns because they out-prepared them and remained the hungrier dog in the fight overall - I'm very disappointed.  

I've watched nearly every Browns game since the return and this was one of the worst losses because of our purported talent level. Brissett played well enough to win, connected well with his receivers. For some reason I had a bad feeling when Cade York missed the extra point and wasn't surprised they lost the onside kick. Delpit should be benched he nearly cost us one game and cost us another. With this loss I now know we'll be in for a long season not just because of everyone's whipping boy Brisset but coaching from the head on down.

[Canton Dawg]

Sorry Myles, I don’t know what game you were involved in, but I saw a half assed effort by at least 2 DB’s in the last 90 seconds of that game.
 

“The more disappointing thing was the booing at the end. It was not the most optimal ending to have. Of course, we want to win. These guys are still putting their asses on the line and playing as hard as they can and they should be respected as such”. - Myles Garrett post game comments 

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

  Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. 

Logically? Here? 😏

There's not a magic fix to this, unfortunately it is what it is and all we can hope for at this point is that once again the defense improves off a shaky (or atrocious) beginning to another season. You aren't bringing in the ghost of Buddy Ryan to fix the defense tomorrow.

That being said, what baffles me is that I would expect in a defense such as Wood's, that features an extra dback instead of a third LB often, that if anything it would get nickle-and-dimed to death. Think a death by a milion paper cuts. Guys running wide open vs a defense that seems literally built to keep everything in front of you is just bananas. That shit is B-A-N-A-N-A-S. (Now I got that shitty Gwen Stefani song in your head. You. Are. Welcome.) 

I guess the silver lining to all this is that if the Browns can beat Pittsburgh Thursday night, they are 2-1, even after all this. Not feeling super duper optimistic, but hey, the Steelers aren't exactly the Steelers now. 

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Few things I'm kicking around this morning. 

 

- Does Delpit return to his big nickel role and Harrison overtake the spot Delpit has?  Removes having a better athlete and also some of the size Harrison brings as a de facto nickel/dime backer in certain sets.  But also means you remove having a potential issue of busts vs simple looks.

- IDL is going to be a glaring weakness Thursday. Short week, questionable QB and oline play from the Steelers.   For anyone following along with my work, on paper the secondary and pass rush are quality. But the IDL is average at best.   And just like 2020 and 2021, the grind of a season will only reduce their already limited effectiveness.   This puts a ton of strain on your secondary to be perfect every play.  Is anything in the works to address this via late trade? I hope Berry see's what is coming, because there's a great deal of recent history to foreshadow it.

 

- Jets have a good young team in the making.  Early returns say they hit a home run this draft with Wilson and Sauce.  Just need to find a QB and get healthy on the Oline.  But their skill positions are solid and their Dline is pretty good.

- I know the late coverage bust is on everyone's mind, but I keep coming back to that flat TD to, I believe Reece? in the late 2nd qtr?  I want to go back and see who the boundary safety was.  If it was Delpit, I'd bet he gave the wrong check to Ward because when facing a 1 fast, 1back set with a reduced split from the WR against quarters is an automatic check to something like a c2. It's just too easy to get a back outside and flat for cheap yards off a little rub vs a curl/flat backer. Especially so close to the redzone.  And I keep wondering why Ward chased the #1 inside and voided flat.   

 

Edit:  And the calls to fire Woods. Be reasonable, there's nothing to support that firing a Dcoord makes the group magically better overnight.  The candidates to replace Woods in house aren't ideal, and you can forget bringing in a completely different coach to install a new system week 3.    There was noticable change and improvement in 2020, same same with 2021 where the defense put this team in place to win more games than it lost.   Does Woods need to be under the microscope? Yes.  Fired today? No.   Because there is no superior alternative in-season when you want to talk about it logically. 

 

All 22 should be out around 5pm EST.  Gives me time to get done with work, hit the gym and try to find some answers.   As usual, if anybody is on TBB discord, you're welcomed to join me as we hunt for answers. 

Something else I like about getting Harrison back out there?  Who coaches the DBs at Alabama where Harrison played his college football?  HC Nick Saban does a lot of it - believe it or not.  Harrison has received some excellent coaching. When he arrived here from Jacksonville, he was making plays all over the place his 1st year with us.  He had a pick 6 and he just sported a nose/instinct for the ball. He's not the brightest apple in the orchard - but his instincts on the gridiron make him a helluva a hunter out there.  Every now and then he'll make dumb decision to hit someone late or when they're already out of bounds from some of that excess testosterone he's holding hostage. 

It might benefit Delpit to watch someone take his reps when he's healthy enough to be out there vrs that happening when he was injured.  You watch how much faster he'll pick things up.  I kind of feel bad about calling Delpit stupid- but my God let's giddyup some freakin urgency with some preparation and game day communications so that breakdown doesn't happen a 3rd consecutive week.  Find your damn position coach between series ask him more questions than that kid on the "Leave it to Beaver" show could. 

 

[tiamat63]

5 hours ago, Bob806 said:

 

Looking at the all-22 now. Believe me bubs, it's worse when you can see everything. 

It's a quasi inverted cover 2 type of  look?  But NOBODY protects flat to either side?  I mean, both options flat to strong or weak would have been a TD.    

 

58 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

That being said, what baffles me is that I would expect in a defense such as Wood's, that features an extra dback instead of a third LB often, that if anything it would get nickle-and-dimed to death. Think a death by a milion paper cuts. Guys running wide open vs a defense that seems literally built to keep everything in front of you is just bananas. That shit is B-A-N-A-N-A-S. (Now I got that shitty Gwen Stefani song in your head. You. Are. Welcome.) 

I guess the silver lining to all this is that if the Browns can beat Pittsburgh Thursday night, they are 2-1, even after all this. Not feeling super duper optimistic, but hey, the Steelers aren't exactly the Steelers now. 

 

In fairness, the NFL spends 65% of the time in nickel.  And the 3rd LB for most teams is just a nickel/star/hybrid whatever designation you want.     I will have to say, the personnel of the design has nothing to do with routes "in front" of you.  The whole point of a 42 is to help better match the athletic ability and prevalence of 1 back sets in college and the NFL. (11/21 personnel)

The Browns CAN win, but they're going to see a heavy dose of what cost us at home last time - Najee Harris 30 times.  If you can limit that and keep some offensive efficiency like we saw Sunday, they can win at home primetime and move to 2-1.      

 

For all Browns fans complain about being snake bitten, we've been handed some gifts so far this year.  

-Biggest AFC games early are at home.

- Injuries to keep players.   TJ Watt, Mechi Becton (spell check) Zach Wilson, Cam Heyward, now Justin Herbert looks beat up.

- Piss poor Oline play.   Seriously, the AFCN is comically bad outside of CLE, we should be thankful every day for coach Callahan.  

44 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Something else I like about getting Harrison back out there?  Who coaches the DBs at Alabama where Harrison played his college football?  HC Nick Saban does a lot of it - believe it or not.  Harrison has received some excellent coaching. When he arrived here from Jacksonville, he was making plays all over the place his 1st year with us.  He had a pick 6 and he just sported a nose/instinct for the ball. He's not the brightest apple in the orchard - but his instincts on the gridiron make him a helluva a hunter out there.  Every now and then he'll make dumb decision to hit someone late or when they're already out of bounds from some of that excess testosterone he's holding hostage. 

It might benefit Delpit to watch someone take his reps when he's healthy enough to be out there vrs that happening when he was injured.  You watch how much faster he'll pick things up.  I kind of feel bad about calling Delpit stupid- but my God let's giddyup some freakin urgency with some preparation and game day communications so that breakdown doesn't happen a 3rd consecutive week.  Find your damn position coach between series ask him more questions than that kid on the "Leave it to Beaver" show could. 

 

 

 Have to remember, Harrison has had his bad moments as well and struggles to function as a high safety.   I won't link it here, but feel free to search for that breakdown I did on him against the Chargers last year and how he got smoked backside in one of our quarters calls.    The only difference is, Harrison's inabilities don't seem to stem from his misunderstanding of primary/secondary call and assignment.  I suppose I'm willing to live with that compared to what I see from Delpit (which is WAY worse, IMHO) because it takes certain route combinations and plenty of time to throw in order to take advantage of his weaknesses.  

 Either way, 2/3 of my safeties have glaring gaps in their game I can take advantage of.  So it becomes a case of pick-your-poison.  If that's the case, I'll flip Harrison and Delpits responsibilities until I feel Grant is ready.   

Because right now he's like the guy who interviews well, but ends up being a shitty employee.

 

edit: The first mentioning I found of Harrison dates back a year next month.

 

 

[gumby73]

20 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Last year it was excuses new guys together Yada yada…we basically brought back the same group…maybe the group and staff are the problem? 
 

Bill Callahan  & Scott Peters don't make excuses for poor OL execution.. They've coached here with several different backup players thru camps & seasons. Callahan has been here just as long as Joe Woods has.. Yes, Joe Woods has more defensive position groups to deal with than Bill Callahan... but Woods got his DC job, as a DB coach since 1992.. Joe Woods only Defensive Cord. job? Lasted 1 season in Denver 2017-2018..  Woods staff has a defense quality control coach named Jeff Anderson & a DB/Pass game cord. coach named Jeff Howard.. <<< start here and simplify your coverage schemes  🤷‍♂️  

 

@JohnKosko3

 

The Browns have 5 coverage busts this year, allowing 201 yards and 3 TDs.

Next closest team has allowed just 2 for 79 yards.

[Flugel]

28 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Have to remember, Harrison has had his bad moments as well and struggles to function as a high safety.   I won't link it here, but feel free to search for that breakdown I did on him against the Chargers last year and how he got smoked backside in one of our quarters calls.    The only difference is, Harrison's inabilities don't seem to stem from his misunderstanding of primary/secondary call and assignment.  I suppose I'm willing to live with that compared to what I see from Delpit (which is WAY worse, IMHO) because it takes certain route combinations and plenty of time to throw in order to take advantage of his weaknesses.  

 Either way, 2/3 of my safeties have glaring gaps in their game I can take advantage of.  So it becomes a case of pick-your-poison.  If that's the case, I'll flip Harrison and Delpits responsibilities until I feel Grant is ready.   

Because right now he's like the guy who interviews well, but ends up being a shitty employee.

edit: The first mentioning I found of Harrison dates back a year next month.

 

Valid points. Yeah, I remember some inconsistency with Harrison; and I also don't remember anyone on our defense playing well against the Chargers or the Cardinals.  We had some stinkers last year.

Not to be a downer, but John Johnson was far more impressive with the Rams than he has been here to date IMO.  He's good but I'd like to see him more at the level the Rams had him at.  

I pointed out yesterday NOBODY was manning the flats (LBer or DE on walk-off assignment) on 1 of the late 1st half TDs - we had 2 LBers all the way back in the end zone with most of our secondary there.  Najee Harris had 74 receptions last year so Pittsburgh is going to test the flats, hook zones and grey areas in between.

Let's hope they get this stuff corrected for Thursday....

[mjp28]

* On  NFL NET  7:15 - 10:15 EDST -  THE REPLAY OF  NJ JETS at  CLE BROWNS . -

If you are interested in seeing it again.  It was a good game for the first 58 minutes.   

[tiamat63]

Just now, Flugel said:

Valid points. Yeah, I remember some inconsistency with Harrison; and I also don't remember anyone on our defense playing well against the Chargers or the Cardinals.  We had some stinkers last year.

Not to be a downer, but John Johnson was far more impressive with the Rams than he has been here to date IMO.  He's good but I'd like to see him more at the level the Rams had him at.  

I pointed out yesterday NOBODY was manning the flats (LBer or DE on walk-off assignment) on 1 of the late 1st half TDs - we had 2 LBers all the way back in the end zone with most of our secondary there.  Najee Harris had 74 receptions last year so Pittsburgh is going to test the flats, hook zones and grey areas in between.

Let's hope they get this stuff corrected for Thursday....

re: Johnny J.   He also played with a more consistent pass rush across the entire front.   Aaron Donald on the interior does wonders for your defense.    Worth pointing out something I've tossed out before, for all the single high the Rams played then, Fuller was their middle field safety.  Allowed JJ3 to move around quite a bit and not have to be so rangy.  Not that he *can't* do it, but he isn't a proficient MFS ballhawk either.    Which is why I've spoken to the redundancy in skill sets of our current Browns safety group.  It's good and bad because the abilities don't really contrast as they compliment each other.

 

I'm watching that bust right now and it's some wonky ass look that starts as a true 3 deep with 5 under on a 3 man rush. Then I see it plays like a cover 2 sink, but the vulnerability of a sink being the middle backer dropping so deep he gets replaced by a receiver.   So you end up dropping another defender in that voided zone and hope to bait a throw.  That replacement can be anybody, including a Dlineman.  Something I watched the Bears try a couple times this pre-season against us that I thought was cool as shit.   And being that the NFL is a copy cat league....   I'll actually post some pics of that tomorrow.  

Which means your corners are responsible for picking up first flat.    So Denzel and Newsome would have seriously eff'd up there.      These are calls I've never seen Woods' make, so I have a feeling you can attribute that confusion to trying something new that the defense just wasn't ready to handle when the bullets went live fire.

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

Jim Donovan just killed the Browns for 60 minutes on Redzone.

He had exactly zero fucks to give.