Mayfield

[Flugel]

17 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

No...you're not correcting anyone. You're trying to make some of us see the situation from your twisted perspective. "Pretending" to you is actually reality. After "3rd string on Carolina" Mayfield, sucking so bad, he's still at a 98.9 qb rating, compared to Watson's 69.3 for this season. I can only judge a player by his most recent games. Mayfield is very inconsistent at best, but Watson....I have yet to see ANYTHING that indicates he is now, or ever will be a top 5 qb in the NFL. 

These are Baker's what have you done for me lately prior to joining the Defending Super Bowl Champions

Baker:          cmp% yds TD INT Rating

2022	Panthers	57.8	1,313	6	6	74.4
2021	Browns	60.5	3,010	17	13	83.1

Edited December 26, 2022 by Flugel

[Dutch Oven]

With Mayfield being a free agent after this season, do the Rams move on from Stafford and make him their starting QB?

Because Stafford wasn't exactly lighting things up before he got injured, and Baker is much younger. Seems like the Rams would be foolish to let Baker go, yes?

And is there any truth to the rumors that Sean McVay might pull a Dick Vermeil and walk away from the sidelines and go to a cushy TV position? 

[FY56]

2 hours ago, lodilobo said:

Average??...47.1 qb rating?...135 yards...0 tds and 1 int.??? ..if that's acceptable to you, then you deserve him.

But there's the "rust" factor. You forgot about that. Those numbers may be acceptable considering the rust factor.

If you can quantify rust on a scale of 1 to 10, Watson would have a rust factor at or near 10.

 

[Flugel]

55 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

You seem to put a lot of stock in Pro Bowls.

Lets take a look at some other “elite” Pro Bowl QB’s:

Matt Cassel

Nick Foles

Andy Dalton

Trent Dilfer

Elvis Grbac 

Kordell Stewart

Vince Young

And last but not least, our own Derek Anderson.

There’s not a starting caliber QB in that list, yet they were selected to a Pro Bowl.

This is why I laugh at Pro Bowl selections.

 

You're laughing at how easy it is to make; so wouldn't it be nice to at least see Baker make the list once as a 1st overall pick?

Edited December 26, 2022 by Flugel

[lodilobo]

3 minutes ago, Flugel said:

At some point?  3 Pro Bowls to 0 in our QB comparison - while you're clinging tightly to a guy showing up to a 4-7 team after not taking a regular season snap in well over 700 days. Being demanding is fine at your end if you're also realistic with how quickly that will happen.

You know there were 3 TD passes dropped on Saturday and even the INT went through David Bell's hands first.  Accuracy wasn't the problem you wanted it to be for some reason.  Wind chills at 15 below zero were the same types of things that led to Red Right from an NFL MVP QB right?  That was an elite QB (that season) with an understanding some days are more favorable for passing on Lake Erie than those with wind chills of 15 degrees below zero or worse.

Carolina gave Baker a shot and I was very happy for Baker at the time.  My question to you is why is it the OTHER QBs there are putting them at least into a shot at the playoffs discussions with just 2 games left?  He's like rooting for a yo-yo some times.

If Matthew Stafford wasn't sidelined, Baker would still be in Carolina watching other QBs outperform him.  

Maybe this final chance he's getting with McVay will produce the elite QB I thought Cleveland drafted once upon a time.  That's not our team though so why care so much about him?  

When you bring up dropped passes, that could be used to defend Mayfield in many instances. Every qb experiences that. I can't answer much about Carolina, other than they are a bad team, over all. I'm not who you think I am. My only reason for jumping in on these Mayfield hating topics, is to point out how badly they screwed up this Watson deal. Why would you give this guy such a ridiculous amount of money, guaranteed, with his shady background, and after he hadn't played in 2 years?....and when he did play, he had great stats...except for the one stat that counts. He only won 4 games. This move is probably the worst thing they could have done. No first round picks for 3 years....screwed with the salary cap because of Watson. They did this after he said he wouldn't come here...didn't want any part of Cleveland...until they gave him the guaranteed contract. Believe me...there were plenty of games last season, when I wanted Mayfield gone, too....just not like this. I guess my question is...why do you care so much about him? I typically don't start any Baker Mayfield support topics. He's gone...I don't care what he does. But, I do care what the Cleveland Browns do. Even though I've been a fan for many years, this last fiasco has kind of put me over the edge...not unlike when Bellichik was here.

[lodilobo]

12 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

With Mayfield being a free agent after this season, do the Rams move on from Stafford and make him their starting QB?

Because Stafford wasn't exactly lighting things up before he got injured, and Baker is much younger. Seems like the Rams would be foolish to let Baker go, yes?

And is there any truth to the rumors that Sean McVay might pull a Dick Vermeil and walk away from the sidelines and go to a cushy TV position? 

That conversation is the topic on the Rams message board right now....I would guarantee it.

[Flugel]

Just now, lodilobo said:

When you bring up dropped passes, that could be used to defend Mayfield in many instances. Every qb experiences that. I can't answer much about Carolina, other than they are a bad team, over all. I'm not who you think I am. My only reason for jumping in on these Mayfield hating topics, is to point out how badly they screwed up this Watson deal. Why would you give this guy such a ridiculous amount of money, guaranteed, with his shady background, and after he hadn't played in 2 years?....and when he did play, he had great stats...except for the one stat that counts. He only won 4 games. This move is probably the worst thing they could have done. No first round picks for 3 years....screwed with the salary cap because of Watson. They did this after he said he wouldn't come here...didn't want any part of Cleveland...until they gave him the guaranteed contract. Believe me...there were plenty of games last season, when I wanted Mayfield gone, too....just not like this. I guess my question is...why do you care so much about him? I typically don't start any Baker Mayfield support topics. He's gone...I don't care what he does. But, I do care what the Cleveland Browns do. Even though I've been a fan for many years, this last fiasco has kind of put me over the edge...not unlike when Bellichik was here.

Here's Watson's 1st 4 years projecting a good future when he gets his 1st full season here.  You don't have to agree because you won't anyway.

                     cmp% Yds TD INT Rating                 

2020	Texans	70.2	4,823	33	7	112.4
2019	Texans	67.3	3,852	26	12	98.0
2018	Texans	68.3	4,165	26	9	103.1
2017	Texans	61.8	1,699	19	8	103.0

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

That conversation is the topic on the Rams message board right now....I would guarantee it.

But here's the rub...

All the Baker guys on here keep telling the world that the Browns are doomed for eternity because the Browns gave up three first round picks.

Well, if the Rams do indeed decide to roll with Baker as their QB for the future, he's going to be on a team that has been completely decimated for years to come in draft picks, with a head coach with an eye on his future gig as a football announcer on TV. 

It will be interesting to watch the situation unravel. 

[Flugel]

12 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

When you bring up dropped passes, that could be used to defend Mayfield in many instances. Every qb experiences that. I can't answer much about Carolina, other than they are a bad team, over all. I'm not who you think I am. My only reason for jumping in on these Mayfield hating topics, is to point out how badly they screwed up this Watson deal. Why would you give this guy such a ridiculous amount of money, guaranteed, with his shady background, and after he hadn't played in 2 years?....and when he did play, he had great stats...except for the one stat that counts. He only won 4 games. This move is probably the worst thing they could have done. No first round picks for 3 years....screwed with the salary cap because of Watson. They did this after he said he wouldn't come here...didn't want any part of Cleveland...until they gave him the guaranteed contract. Believe me...there were plenty of games last season, when I wanted Mayfield gone, too....just not like this. I guess my question is...why do you care so much about him? I typically don't start any Baker Mayfield support topics. He's gone...I don't care what he does. But, I do care what the Cleveland Browns do. Even though I've been a fan for many years, this last fiasco has kind of put me over the edge...not unlike when Bellichik was here.

I got ya!  This is a very good post and I understand the concern you have about what they gave up. I always like to understand where someone is coming from and why. I freaked out when this was first going down.  Let's be honest, there's been easier QBs here to like given why Watson needed to be suspended.  My wife thinks Watson is a complete scum bag as I imagine plenty of others in here have wives that don't like the guy.  However, she said you've loved that team for decades so don't let 1 guy stop you from your family tradition of following this team.  I think he can become a good QB here when gets back to the full cycle of mini camps/OTAs, training camp, preseason and a regulation season that begins in week 1.

I never hated Baker.  Still don't; but I think he can be his biggest enemy some times.  

 

[Mudfly]

I keep seeing people complaining about us using 3 first rounds picks to get a franchise QB.....Dont know where youve been for the last 40 years, but I promise you they wont be missed that much.....(thats how long its been since we last drafted a decent QB, btw)......weve picked exactly 5 good players, in the first round, over the last 23 years...only 5....so, the history and numbers tell me we wouldnt get anything better(or even close) with those 3 picks......

[Neo]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Maybe this final chance he's getting with McVay will produce the elite QB I thought Cleveland drafted

Maybe Baker's problem was nobody believed in him. You know Hue Jackson didn't, we all remember the Bengals game and Baker's death stare at Hue. And I'm not so sure Stefanski believed in him either. He left him out there with an injured shoulder to get pummeled all season. McVay sees the potential in him and knows how to get that potential out of him.

[Canton Dawg]

22 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

I keep seeing people complaining about us using 3 first rounds picks to get a franchise QB.....Dont know where youve been for the last 40 years, but I promise you they wont be missed that much.....(thats how long its been since we last drafted a decent QB, btw)......weve picked exactly 5 good players, in the first round, over the last 23 years...only 5....so, the history and numbers tell me we wouldnt get anything better(or even close) with those 3 picks......

Isn’t that more of an indictment of the person(s) making those picks?

Nice to see you back Mud.

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

You're laughing at how easy it is to make; so wouldn't it be nice to at least see Baker make the list once as a 1st overall pick?

I didn’t mention Baker in my reply, but I’m talking popularity contest or sometimes called Pro Bowl.

And how do those Pro Bowl nominations equate to success?

[mjp28]

15 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

I keep seeing people complaining about us using 3 first rounds picks to get a franchise QB.....Dont know where youve been for the last 40 years, but I promise you they wont be missed that much.....(thats how long its been since we last drafted a decent QB, btw)......weve picked exactly 5 good players, in the first round, over the last 23 years...only 5....so, the history and numbers tell me we wouldnt get anything better(or even close) with those 3 picks......

It's not only the draft picks which might be about right for a true franchise quarterback  IF  that is what Mr Watson turns out to be.   So far in just a few games after an about  700 days off  from any NFL tackle football he shows signs of his old quite good NFL form.

The other part of this deal was the  huge  amount of guaranteed money that the Cleveland Browns have promised to Mr Watson.   He better perform up to his old form or the BROWNS are in bad shape for MANY years to come.

This is an unprecedented deal in NFL history.   They better be concerned. 

[Mudfly]

4 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Isn’t that more of an indictment of the person(s) making those picks?

Nice to see you back Mud.

Definitely....but there have been a LOT of people making those picks.....I honestly think its more just the average throughout the league....Ive already justified in my mind that we "might" have hit on one of the next 3....so, at least to me, its  picks well spent....

[Mudfly]

2 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

It's not only the draft picks which might be about right for a true franchise quarterback  IF  that is what Mr Watson turns out to be.   So far in just a few games after an about  700 days off  from any NFL tackle football he shows signs of his old quite good NFL form.

The other part of this deal was the  huge  amount of guaranteed money that the Cleveland Browns have promised to Mr Watson.   He better perform up to his old form or the BROWNS are in bad shape for MANY years to come.

This is an unprecedented deal in NFL history.   They better be concerned. 

Right...well have to see how they manage that.....this year it is unprecedented....next year?....the year after that?.....probably not.....theres always going to be a new highest paid QB right around the corner.....

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I didn’t mention Baker in my reply, but I’m talking popularity contest or sometimes called Pro Bowl.

And how do those Pro Bowl nominations equate to success?

Yes,  the Pro Bowl is nice  -but-   not as important or a true indicator of talent than it used to be.

Many top players don't bother to play anymore  plus the game is not much more than a  glorified two hand touch game.  (with occasional good plays)

[calfoxwc]

#1 - it's not really fair to say wr's drops are limiting watson's ability to perform better,

and the Baker haters refused to have that same reason with Baker.

watson has AMARI COO:PER - Baker never did. Amari Cooper is the key to making the browns offense work. That last game vs the Saints - Ameri Cooper had 6 catches for 72 yards. Bell had 1. DPJ ...had ONE CATCH. FOR TWO YARDS. wowzer, eh? Take away Amari Cooper, and then look at how pitifully watson's performace would be.

It's so sad. Watson has not been throwing accurately well at all - except for a few times.

In Carolina, btw, the head coach was FIRED. Hence, changes were made, and the Panthers are playing better. Their offensive line made changes - and their offensive line is really playing far, far more successfully:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article270233237.html

before, the offense did NOT work, that is how Darnold got hurt. etc etc etc etc. Baker was a desperate choice to try to make it work. Same head coach, same problem. No matter who the qb was, same problem.

  I wish Baker the best. After only 2 days with the rams, Baker won with the Rams.

  Seems to me, the browns are going to be in misery with the giant 230 million Guaranteed contract and giving up 3 first round draft picks for subpar performances by a pervert qb. It isn't that he screwed up in his personal life - it's that he lied, and lied, did NOT want to play wit the Browns, until he took the historically stupid bribe to come to Cleveland.

  I believe next year - the Browns start off about 3 million OVER the salary cap. That is very bad. We will see who leaves the Browns for bigger pay, after the Browns run out of big contract ability.

   In 2021, Baker Mayfield, badly injured - left shoulder, wore a stupid cling. And still completed 62.8 percent of his passes.

  So far, with the Browns, WITH AMARI COOPER, watson has only completed 57.x percent of his passes. Big deal.

  but the watson stink may never go away, not even next year, on and off the field. We'll see.

  Baker haters bashed Mayfield and ignored any reasons why the Browns were struggling last year. Now, they make the same reasons are still there with watson.

Plain and simple - two Baker mocking threads, and any positive post can get the "Baker isn't here anymore, give it a rest". haha.

baloney.

 

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I got ya!  This is a very good post and I understand the concern you have about what they gave up. I always like to understand where someone is coming from and why. I freaked out when this was first going down.  Let's be honest, there's been easier QBs here to like given why Watson needed to be suspended.  My wife thinks Watson is a complete scum bag as I imagine plenty of others in here have wives that don't like the guy.  However, she said you've loved that team for decades so don't let 1 guy stop you from your family tradition of following this team.  I think he can become a good QB here when gets back to the full cycle of mini camps/OTAs, training camp, preseason and a regulation season that begins in week 1.

I never hated Baker.  Still don't; but I think he can be his biggest enemy some times.  

 

crap. I ran out of upvotes again. UPVOTE !

[calfoxwc]

12 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

It's not only the draft picks which might be about right for a true franchise quarterback  IF  that is what Mr Watson turns out to be.   So far in just a few games after an about  700 days off  from any NFL tackle football he shows signs of his old quite good NFL form.

The other part of this deal was the  huge  amount of guaranteed money that the Cleveland Browns have promised to Mr Watson.   He better perform up to his old form or the BROWNS are in bad shape for MANY years to come.

This is an unprecedented deal in NFL history.   They better be concerned. 

Yep. and I don't hate watson - he's screwed up his reputation off the field badly. and he lied. Did NOT want to come to the Browns, but came for the money.

    I hate the deal and the price to take the chance that watson can be a magic twanger for our Browns. I don't see it, but who knows.

  Watson is an outstanding athlete, yep. So was Michael Vick - who sadly ruined his career too. In 2006, Michael Vick was the first qb to rush for over 1,000 yards in a season. But the Falcons only went 7-9 that year, and missed the playoffs.

   So, who knows. I just wonder how bad the lows will be if watson doesn't become a superstar after all is said and done. If the highs outweigh the lows - even a superbowl maybe - the stink will still be there. Watson lied about all the off the field stuff - the Browns hope it will just go away. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

I didn’t mention Baker in my reply, but I’m talking popularity contest or sometimes called Pro Bowl.

And how do those Pro Bowl nominations equate to success?

Gotchya CD!

You know what I don't like is when they look at a player on the fringe of Hall of Fame consideration; and the sports writers that vote on it give the ole "yeah but he didn't play in/win any Super Bowls."  

[calfoxwc]

Interesting commentary -

https://redstate.com/jerrywilson/2022/12/27/the-2022-christmas-wrapped-redstate-sports-summary-n679499

"

The other two stories emanated from Los Angeles, where the Rams took full frustration release over a lost season by destroying the Denver Broncos 51-14. Baker Mayfield, starting for his third team in the calendar year, looked every bit a Number One draft pick as he shredded an excellent Broncos defense with such efficiency the Rams never had to punt. Denver’s game was so miserable it finally pushed the Broncos’ front office into waving the white flag and firing head coach Nathaniel Hackett, whose job has been painfully out of his ability since day one.

Meanwhile, the Rams and Mayfield have some deep thinking ahead. Los Angeles would love to keep Mayfield as a backup to, and eventual replacement for, Matthew Stafford, who has already said he plans on coming back next year. However, would Mayfield be happy in such a role? Certainly, every team needing a quarterback upgrade (*coughindianpoliscoltscough*) is pouring over the Rams-Broncos game film with ever-widening eyes at how superb Mayfield played behind a patchwork offensive line and several key Rams offensive weapons, most noticeably wide receiver Cooper Kupp, out due to injury. However, these other teams don’t have Sean McVay running the show. It promises to be a most interesting off-season."

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Interesting commentary -

https://redstate.com/jerrywilson/2022/12/27/the-2022-christmas-wrapped-redstate-sports-summary-n679499

"

The other two stories emanated from Los Angeles, where the Rams took full frustration release over a lost season by destroying the Denver Broncos 51-14. Baker Mayfield, starting for his third team in the calendar year, looked every bit a Number One draft pick as he shredded an excellent Broncos defense with such efficiency the Rams never had to punt. Denver’s game was so miserable it finally pushed the Broncos’ front office into waving the white flag and firing head coach Nathaniel Hackett, whose job has been painfully out of his ability since day one.

Meanwhile, the Rams and Mayfield have some deep thinking ahead. Los Angeles would love to keep Mayfield as a backup to, and eventual replacement for, Matthew Stafford, who has already said he plans on coming back next year. However, would Mayfield be happy in such a role? Certainly, every team needing a quarterback upgrade (*coughindianpoliscoltscough*) is pouring over the Rams-Broncos game film with ever-widening eyes at how superb Mayfield played behind a patchwork offensive line and several key Rams offensive weapons, most noticeably wide receiver Cooper Kupp, out due to injury. However, these other teams don’t have Sean McVay running the show. It promises to be a most interesting off-season."

[calfoxwc]

Don't have much to offer, eh, DH?

You rarely do. Stop crying.

[SdBacker80]

First, Watson threw two perfect passes that would have tied the game and the degree of difficulty on both were extremely high (in good conditions).  If we want the dirt balls he threw in Houston or his suspension to cloud our judgement…fine.  Start with that and many of us will skip over the gibberish to follow. 
 

I’m so sick of talking about a QB that hasn’t played a snap for us this season that we’ve analyzed and overanalyzed for four seasons.  The QB in question had OBJ (who performed well as soon as he left anyone recall the SB?) Jarvis Landry is his prime, a stable of runners and better offensive line than the one we have now toward the end of his run with the Browns.  

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’m so sick of talking about a QB that hasn’t played a snap for us this season that we’ve analyzed and overanalyzed for four seasons.  The QB in question had OBJ (who performed well as soon as he left anyone recall the SB?) Jarvis Landry is his prime, a stable of runners and better offensive line than the one we have now toward the end of his run with the Browns.  

well, that was 2020 and Baker took us to the playoffs. He did NOT have obj in the stupid injury sling jobbie in 2021. Yes, obj actually played in the superbowl with the rams. Notice the rams did NOT sign him again? nobody has. Remember how much a cancer he was with the Giants?

He was all about "his brand" with the Browns, too.

Baker was 24 or 28 WITHOUT obj. WITHOUT Cooper Cupp, who DID play in the superbowl. That helped obj be able to show up and be successful for a few plays. That is after the rams fired their hapless head coach.

   The title of the thread is easy to notice and avoid if you've a mind to.

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

   The title of the thread is easy to notice and avoid if you've a mind to

You mean like you did after Baker's game in Green Bay last week? 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The QB in question had OBJ (who performed well as soon as he left anyone recall the SB?)

OBJ filled in nicely as a #3 receiver in L.A.

But my gut tells me they would have won a SB without his services.

If he was all that, and a bag of chips he would be on a roster somewhere.

Most GM’s know his best days are behind him.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

I personally like following the Mayfield story. I don't care about what ramifications this has to the Browns because it has nothing to do with the Browns.

Some of you guys are still polarized over this, and while I don't feel it, I understand it. Some of you are just blood and guts.

Here is my view.

1) The Browns were right to trade him. The damage was done and there was no fixing it.

2) The jury is not completely out on the kid. Odds be damned, he still might have a career.

However, if he does find success, the Browns were still correct to release him.

Some times things don't work together. It doesn't mean either party was wrong if one department finds future success.

Baker is an interesting story to me, but like my favorite TV show, Ted Lasso, it has nothing to do with our Brownies.

 

[Kvoethe]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:13 PM, calfoxwc said:

Yep. But I'm figuring that the watson boys will whine endlessly about the four incompletions in that game.

Mayfield absolutely mastered that win in the passing game. Actually, he was 24 of 28. Zero ints, zero sacks. 2 TDs.

Cam Akers at rb? 23 carries for 118 yards and 3 TDs.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ! That, btw is 85.6% of his passes completed.

hoorta and tiam can go suck on watson's toes. They are on watson's virtual massage table with him, let them lay in it.

 

We got

57.7% completion, 2 TDs vs 3 INTs and a 37.3 QBR in 4 games. Duh Browns traded 3 first round draft picks (6 picks total) for Watson and gave him a fully guaranteed 5-year $230m contract