Mayfield

[hoorta]

16 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

another lie. My positive thread came WELL AFTER the TWO negative threads.

but thanks for replying in the afternoon.......

Yeah Baker lapdog... Gotta keep on defending your hero. LOL, I'll leave your other hero out of the discussion on the BROWNS Forum...   Thanks for proving my point, or you going to deny you started that thread? 

I'm not being negative when I opined that Stefanski and Berry correctly estimated Baker's ability level and effectively told him his quarterbacking skills weren't good enough to lead the Browns going forward. And he made history, the only #1 overall pick to be on his third team this quickly.    Will Mayfield ever be able to get another starting qb gig in the NFL? Remains to be seen. If he does, good for him...  But from my POV what I said earlier, it's sure looking like defensive coordinators have figured Baker out.     

Finally, I'd say anymore the vast majority of Browns fans care about Baker as much as they do about Jarvis Landry or Jordan Poyer. So give it a rest already.  

[Orion]

8 hours ago, Bob806 said:

there's reports of him leaving for a TV gig)

I think he would be a good TV actor.  He did real nice jobs with commercials.

[Canton Dawg]

11 hours ago, Bob806 said:

Wow though, who ever thought the Rams would disintegrate so fast? 

Not having a first round pick in 5 years, and a roster full of mercenaries will do that.

I hope Haslam and Berry are taking notes.

[Flugel]

On 12/19/2022 at 7:17 AM, lodilobo said:

Lifelong fan??....have you been there since 1960 like 

My dad was one of the biggest Cleveland Browns fans northeast of Ohio when I was born in 1964; so being a Browns fan by 1968 was inevitable.  We had a huge antenna on top of our house in the 70s getting us feeds from all over and as far north as Ottawa, Canada (and that was commentated in French).  

Does any of that change why we needed so many Baker Mayfield threads with some guys acting like we traded away the next Joe Montana or Steve Young instead of Colt McCoy (whom I've maintained a lot of respect for fwiw).  I even rooted for Baker and defended him when I felt criticism was unfair. I did it all the time and you would easily know that if you were here. But, let's be real, as a 1st overall pick - is he ever going to be more than just a passenger at the NFL level?  IMO, if he was - he wouldn't be on his 3rd team already only because Matthew Stafford is on IR. That's more Colt McCoy than misunderstood Joe Montana. I don't see the elite guy I thought I'd see.  If you do, that's fine.  We're not in this conversation because I called your pov idiotic - we're in it because you did that to me.  

My favorite 2 QBs during my 54 years as a fan are Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar.  One of those guys was a 13th round draft pick out of San Diego State.  13th round usually implied there were a bunch of imperfections/weaknesses to overcome.  Sipe became the only NFL MVP this team has had.  And how?  He led a lot of comeback victories here that earned him the respect he deserved.  The excitement from all the late comeback victories gave the offense/team the nickname "Kardiac Kids."   Kosar and Sipe repeatedly earned my respect here...

 

[Bob806]

11 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

I hope Haslam and Berry are taking notes.

They have a 25 page power point presentation from Kyle Shanahan somewhere in the building🙆

[lodilobo]

On 12/20/2022 at 1:47 PM, hoorta said:

Yeah, FYI I've been around the football world as long as you have....  Yep, Baker took the Browns to the playoffs...  You still giddy that Jim Brown won us the NFL Championship in 1964?  That's one outlier year for Mayfield, and what the experts opined about Baker rang true again Monday night, he's maddeningly inconsistent.  He was pretty pedestrian against the Packers, Captain check down..  And I saw at least one play where Baker had a two guys wide open (shades of the OBJ bitch) and he didn't see them.  

Of course Cult Baker is still making excuses for him and can't come to admit Mayfield is another Andy Dalton who can only succeed if the surrounding cast is studly all world. 

That's the problem with Cult Baker nickers... And it IS a cult. Should we analyze everything former Brown Jarvis Landry is doing with the Saints? Maybe rave about how great Jordan Poyer is playing for the Bills? Sheeezzzeee!!!!  I'm more than happy to let it go and move on.  THEY'RE the ones who can't let it go, and follow his every doing around the league like a bunch of pathetic lapdogs. I learned long ago not to fall in love with particular Browns players (with few exceptions). I still have a Tim Couch gathering dust in my basement as a reminder of that.   

PS Tia- I hope you bet a ton on the Packers to cover last night. It could have been more than 12, if they didn't do a series of kneel downs to run out the clock at the end of the game.    

Holy crap!...you Mayfield haters are the ones guilty of not letting go. No matter what he does, you have to start a thread about it...not you personally, but the "Anti Baker cult" you belong to. I already stated more than once....I don't really care what he does, but I will defend him when you're comparing him to Colt McCoy. How many playoff games did Colt win when he was here? I have to correct about the '64 Championship game. Jim Brown didn't really have much to do with that one sided domination of the Colts. It was all Frank Ryan and Gary Collins.

[Flugel]

22 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

Holy crap!...you Mayfield haters are the ones guilty of not letting go. No matter what he does, you have to start a thread about it...not you personally, but the "Anti Baker cult" you belong to. I already stated more than once....I don't really care what he does, but I will defend him when you're comparing him to Colt McCoy. How many playoff games did Colt win when he was here? I have to correct about the '64 Championship game. Jim Brown didn't really have much to do with that one sided domination of the Colts. It was all Frank Ryan and Gary Collins.

Telling the truth about a player doesn't make one a hater.  That's you taking things way out of context in order for you to think you have a point. 

After losing his starting job in Carolina to the guy he was supposed to upgrade, Baker is now filling in for an injured starter on another team just like Colt McCoy.  The only difference is Baker was a 1st overall pick while Colt McCoy was a 3rd round pick.  Filling in for injured starters on other teams doesn't get most of us agreeing that's a 1st overall pick acing the gig.  

Go Browns!

 

[Kvoethe]

18/20 for 185 and 2 TD.

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Kvoethe said:

18/20 for 185 and 2 TD.

24/28

😀

WSS

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Kvoethe said:

18/20 for 185 and 2 TD.

Yep. But I'm figuring that the watson boys will whine endlessly about the four incompletions in that game.

Mayfield absolutely mastered that win in the passing game. Actually, he was 24 of 28. Zero ints, zero sacks. 2 TDs.

Cam Akers at rb? 23 carries for 118 yards and 3 TDs.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ! That, btw is 85.6% of his passes completed.

hoorta and tiam can go suck on watson's toes. They are on watson's virtual massage table with him, let them lay in it.

 

[bbedward]

If anyone watched baker play for Cleveland they’d see a mediocre QB that couldn’t throw over his line unless it was 30 yards over his receivers dead.

the guy got benched for darnold and cut, reportedly locker room cancer.

he has two good games and now we all love him? Makes no sense.

watson played average which is whatever, but baker is not an nfl starter. 

[Orion]

Glad Baker had a good game.   I wonder which team he'll be on next year.

[mjp28]

22 minutes ago, bbedward said:

If anyone watched baker play for Cleveland they’d see a mediocre QB that couldn’t throw over his line unless it was 30 yards over his receivers dead.

the guy got benched for darnold and cut, reportedly locker room cancer.

he has two good games and now we all love him? Makes no sense.

watson played average which is whatever, but baker is not an nfl starter. 

Mayfield probably is an average NFL starting quarterback  with  occasional above average games (just check his CLE and CAR stats.)  He did crack into the playoffs before fizzling out.

BRM is NOT a franchise quarterback which is what the Cleveland BROWNS have needed for a few decades  ..... or more.

Watson has NFL Player of the Year and has franchise opportunities especially with a little good help and maybe  a better play caller  !    I think that's been quite apparent since he has hit the field.   

Besides he's already been paid for better let him open it up .....  without forgetting to RUN THE BALL TOO.

[mjp28]

2 minutes ago, Orion said:

Glad Baker had a good game.   I wonder which team he'll be on next year.

NFL  ?         Who knows, hes on #3 pretty quick.   

He should have his NFL pension wrapped up,  now the big desire to play,  hmmm.

[Dutch Oven]

8 minutes ago, Orion said:

Glad Baker had a good game.   I wonder which team he'll be on next year.

I'm sure that with him being a free agent after this season, teams will be clamoring for him, and he'll receive giant free agent contract offers. 

[Neo]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

BRM is NOT a franchise quarterback which is what the Cleveland BROWNS have needed for a few decades  ..... or more.

Sean McVay is a big reason why Mayfield looks like a franchise quarterback right now. Sometimes it just takes the right system and coach. What if Mayfield was drafted by McVay and the Rams? What if Tom Brady was drafted by the Lions, would he have 7 super bowls? 

Speaking of Brady, finally looks like he's at the end of the line. 

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Sean McVay is a big reason why Mayfield looks like a franchise quarterback right now. Sometimes it just takes the right system and coach. What if Mayfield was drafted by McVay and the Rams? What if Tom Brady was drafted by the Lions, would he have 7 super bowls? 

Speaking of Brady, finally looks like he's at the end of the line. 

Yes.   Brady has that worn out look on the field.    But going for another OT win.  

...... edit add,    and he did it  19-16 final.

Edited December 26, 2022 by mjp28

[Neo]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Yes.   Brady has that worn out look on the field.    But going for another OT win.  

...... edit add,    and he did it  19-16 final.

He's still got it between the ears, but he has been underthrowing his receivers the past few games. Like he doesn't have the arm anymore. I have been following him his whole career, it's going to be a sad day when he's no longer on the field.  I don't care what the haters say.

[lodilobo]

10 hours ago, bbedward said:

If anyone watched baker play for Cleveland they’d see a mediocre QB that couldn’t throw over his line unless it was 30 yards over his receivers dead.

the guy got benched for darnold and cut, reportedly locker room cancer.

he has two good games and now we all love him? Makes no sense.

watson played average which is whatever, but baker is not an nfl starter. 

Average??...47.1 qb rating?...135 yards...0 tds and 1 int.??? ..if that's acceptable to you, then you deserve him.

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

Glad Baker had a good game.   I wonder which team he'll be on next year.

They showed this weekend, that since Carolina replaced Baker - they are now one of the teams in the NFC with a chance to make the playoffs.  

 

[lodilobo]

10 minutes ago, Flugel said:

They showed this weekend, that since Carolina replaced Baker - they are now one of the teams in the NFC with a chance to make the playoffs.  

 

Nobody really gives a crap about Carolina....unless you're suggesting that Cleveland should follow that example and get rid of Watson to enhance their playoff chances.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

Average??...47.1 qb rating?...135 yards...0 tds and 1 int.??? ..if that's acceptable to you, then you deserve him.

I was fine with what he did because I watched the game.  Cleveland Browns fans have a tendency to watch their team while Baker Mayfield groupies have a tendency to worry more about him keeping the career alive after he failed miserably in Carolina.

If you watched the game you would have seen TD passes bouncing off Cooper, DPJ and Njoku.  Last year at this time, Baker threw 4 INTs on Christmas Day at Green Bay.

Watson has been to 3 Pro Bowls and Baker has been to zero.  Watson's passer ratings throughout his 1st 4 seasons were way better than Baker's.

Those that were here, unlike you, know many of us wanted him to succeed here.  He had a very promising rookie year and even broke a record for TD passes.  Unfortunately, we didn't see the same guy the next year.  I thought his 3rd season was pretty good in a sense he threw 26 TDs to only 8 INTs and was opportunistic in the playoffs with all the short fields the defense got him intercepting Roethlisberger 5 times.  The game started 7-0 before our offense took it's 1st snap.  

At least Baker looks like a starter playing for a Defending Superbowl Champion; because he only looked like the 3rd best QB in Carolina.

[tiamat63]

 The amount of people damning and praising Baker is still alarming to me. 

 He's played well when the game script and running game works.  Last night, he thrived in that situation. It's a testament to what he's capable of doing when the right conditions are met.   Credit to him for the work put in and the throws made, while also giving credit to McVay and the Rams front office for bringing Baker in. 

 There's no need to felate the man for throwing 230 yards with an 8yp target average.  And there's no need to put him down either. He did all that was asked and a little more at times.   I hate John Elway as a talent evaluator so when I see Denver implode, it validates the work I do and the work I put in on Paxton Lynch. 

 

 

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, lodilobo said:

Nobody really gives a crap about Carolina....unless you're suggesting that Cleveland should follow that example and get rid of Watson to enhance their playoff chances.

Well, Baker should have because as much as you're rooting for the Rams more than you're rooting for the Browns - the ONLY reason he's there is because Matthew Stafford is on IR and Baker got demoted to 3rd on Carolina's depth chart. He's 2-2 on a team that was 4-7.  

How many ways do you want to compare Baker to Watson starting with College Football. Baker never made it out of the 1st round of the BCS Playoffs.  Watson shredded Ohio State in the playoffs before beating Alabama for the National Championship. 

Watson has 3 Pro Bowls, 2 playoff appearances and some elite passer rating in his first 4 years.

Baker has 0 Pro Bowls, 1 playoff appearance and often had passer ratings that ranked him anywhere between 16 + 32 overall. 

Above all, isn't it funny that not 1 of Baker's former teammates in Cleveland had any positive things to say about him?  Not 1 guy spoke up in his favor or said they wished him well.  Nobody.  When Bernie left here - a lot of guys had his back with how much he's meant to this franchise and they would miss him.  With Baker?  0.

[lodilobo]

13 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I was fine with what he did because I watched the game.  Cleveland Browns fans have a tendency to watch their team while Baker Mayfield groupies have a tendency to worry more about him keeping the career alive after he failed miserably in Carolina.

If you watched the game you would have seen TD passes bouncing off Cooper, DPJ and Njoku.  Last year at this time, Baker threw 4 INTs on Christmas Day at Green Bay.

Watson has been to 3 Pro Bowls and Baker has been to zero.  Watson's passer ratings throughout his 1st 4 seasons were way better than Baker's.

Those that were here, unlike you, know many of us wanted him to succeed here.  He had a very promising rookie year and even broke a record for TD passes.  Unfortunately, we didn't see the same guy the next year.  I thought his 3rd season was pretty good in a sense he threw 26 TDs to only 8 INTs and was opportunistic in the playoffs with all the short fields the defense got him intercepting Roethlisberger 5 times.  The game started 7-0 before our offense took it's 1st snap.  

At least Baker looks like a starter playing for a Defending Superbowl Champion; because he only looked like the 3rd best QB in Carolina.

So....your point is that Watson WAS a better qb at some point....ok. I did watch as much of that game that I could possibly watch without puking. These excuses you're using for Watson, never were considered for Mayfield. Like I said...if your comfortable with Watson's stats...including a 69.3 qb rating for the season, I guess I'm just a little more demanding of a guy that is advertised as a " top 5 qb", "elite", and a "franchise qb". Especially, at the cost. 

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 The amount of people damning and praising Baker is still alarming to me. 

 He's played well when the game script and running game works.  Last night, he thrived in that situation. It's a testament to what he's capable of doing when the right conditions are met.   Credit to him for the work put in and the throws made, while also giving credit to McVay and the Rams front office for bringing Baker in. 

 There's no need to felate the man for throwing 230 yards with an 8yp target average.  And there's no need to put him down either. He did all that was asked and a little more at times.   I hate John Elway as a talent evaluator so when I see Denver implode, it validates the work I do and the work I put in on Paxton Lynch. 

 

 

I'm not damning him; and I think you of all people know how many times I used to stick up for him.  I'm correcting guys that are pretending he's been way better than Deshaun Watson.  

[tiamat63]

20 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I'm not damning him; and I think you of all people know how many times I used to stick up for him.  I'm correcting guys that are pretending he's been way better than Deshaun Watson.  

 

 This is true.  Both have played 3 games, in those 2, Baker has executed better than Deshaun during that stretch.

 As I eluded to before, in order for Baker to maintain what his rate is - 67% and 230YPG with a 2:1 TD/INT ratio, defenses have to either struggle to limit the run (Oakland at times) or implode completely, as Denver did last night.      The Packers did neither and, as expected, Baker was a sub 60% passer.   

 I know when a team has checked out.  In the case of the Denver defense, they packed it in after Russel's first turnover.   They've been hard carrying that group all season with little to no run support, and at some point the levee breaks.  

 Deshaun demonstrably has the higher ceiling.  I could go back and chart similar concepts and throws to show how Watson has done better than Baker in those comparable situations.     I also know, with a good lot of this group, it would be a complete waste of my time.  I'd be better off studying my bet matchups.    I mean we have, supposedly, grown men on this board who still use the word "haters" like they're 17 year old sound cloud rappers.    All that word is meant to do is to invalidate, without merit, likely valid criticism of a person, enterprise, topic or material of which they are a fan. 

 

 We live in an age where you can show someone, such as I have with my work on Baker, not only a degree of evidence, but fact beyond contestation, and people will still spin it in their mind to find a way to ignore said truth.    Facing ourselves, our own judgements and our own initial conceptions is a tall order for seemingly SO many people across such a wide array of topics.  Football is just one of those such things.  

 

 When the conditions aren't right, Baker is an average to below average QB.   When the conditions are right, Baker can be an above average to good QB.   Nothing more, nothing less.  

 God love ya, buddy.  But if you're spending time on here trying to convince people of something they're entrenched on, you're only wasting your own time.    I'm late by the way, but Merry Merry and hopefully a happy and healthy New Year to all of you.  

 

edit: We need a bowl game thread...

[lodilobo]

12 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I'm not damning him; and I think you of all people know how many times I used to stick up for him.  I'm correcting guys that are pretending he's been way better than Deshaun Watson.  

No...you're not correcting anyone. You're trying to make some of us see the situation from your twisted perspective. "Pretending" to you is actually reality. After "3rd string on Carolina" Mayfield, sucking so bad, he's still at a 98.9 qb rating, compared to Watson's 69.3 for this season. I can only judge a player by his most recent games. Mayfield is very inconsistent at best, but Watson....I have yet to see ANYTHING that indicates he is now, or ever will be a top 5 qb in the NFL. 

[Canton Dawg]

25 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Baker has 0 Pro Bowls, 1 playoff appearance and often had passer ratings that ranked him anywhere between 16 + 32 overall.

You seem to put a lot of stock in Pro Bowls.

Lets take a look at some other “elite” Pro Bowl QB’s:

Matt Cassel

Nick Foles

Andy Dalton

Trent Dilfer

Elvis Grbac 

Kordell Stewart

Vince Young

And last but not least, our own Derek Anderson.

There’s not a starting caliber QB in that list, yet they were selected to a Pro Bowl.

This is why I laugh at Pro Bowl selections.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, lodilobo said:

So....your point is that Watson WAS a better qb at some point....ok. I did watch as much of that game that I could possibly watch without puking. These excuses you're using for Watson, never were considered for Mayfield. Like I said...if your comfortable with Watson's stats...including a 69.3 qb rating for the season, I guess I'm just a little more demanding of a guy that is advertised as a " top 5 qb", "elite", and a "franchise qb". Especially, at the cost. 

At some point?  3 Pro Bowls to 0 in our QB comparison - while you're clinging tightly to a guy showing up to a 4-7 team after not taking a regular season snap in well over 700 days. Being demanding is fine at your end if you're also realistic with how quickly that will happen.

You know there were 3 TD passes dropped on Saturday and even the INT went through David Bell's hands first.  Accuracy wasn't the problem you wanted it to be for some reason.  Wind chills at 15 below zero were the same types of things that led to Red Right from an NFL MVP QB right?  That was an elite QB (that season) with an understanding some days are more favorable for passing on Lake Erie than those with wind chills of 15 degrees below zero or worse.

Carolina gave Baker a shot and I was very happy for Baker at the time.  My question to you is why is it the OTHER QBs there are putting them at least into a shot at the playoffs discussions with just 2 games left?  He's like rooting for a yo-yo some times.

If Matthew Stafford wasn't sidelined, Baker would still be in Carolina watching other QBs outperform him.  

Maybe this final chance he's getting with McVay will produce the elite QB I thought Cleveland drafted once upon a time.  That's not our team though so why care so much about him?