Watson's shoulder

[hoorta]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:48 AM, Westside Steve said:

Here's a quick thought. If there's a fractured bone in the shoulder I didn't really see a hit in the last game that should have caused it. If I'm wrong, that's life.

If I'm not wrong that would mean that the orthopedic team has missed that ever since Watson went out in the first place.

The doctor's name isn't Haslam is it?

WSS

I can't find the video Steve, but it's floating around here somewhere.  The hit that caused the injury was pretty obvious. Watson got simultaneously sandwiched high between two Ravens defenders. He could have gotten lucky, and just gotten a broken collarbone instead. 

[Westside Steve]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

I can't find the video Steve, but it's floating around here somewhere.  The hit that caused the injury was pretty obvious. Watson got simultaneously sandwiched high between two Ravens defenders. He could have gotten lucky, and just gotten a broken collarbone instead. 

Could be. If it was the announces made a lot less of it than they did talking about his ankle.

WSS

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

Watson lost 11 games due to his penis, and another 11 games due to his shoulder. If this mother fucker's hemmoroids start acting up next year, we are really fucked.

[Unsympathetic]

At least this trade won't be the worst in NFL history.

David Tepper and what he's currently finding a way to do in Carolina are almost at the level of needing the Stepien Rule in the NFL.. His trade for Bryce Young by itself is worse than the Watson trade, and that's the tip of the iceberg.

[bbedward]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

At least this trade won't be the worst in NFL history.

David Tepper and what he's currently finding a way to do in Carolina are almost at the level of needing the Stepien Rule in the NFL.. His trade for Bryce Young by itself is worse than the Watson trade, and that's the tip of the iceberg.

They only call it the worst in history given the allegations, people desperately want it to be.

so far it hasn’t worked out…but not because Watson isn’t a good player, just because of suspension and injury. Too early to judge 

[nickers]

On 11/25/2023 at 12:27 AM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Watson lost 11 games due to his penis, and another 11 games due to his shoulder. If this mother fucker's hemmoroids start acting up next year, we are really fucked.

You gotta remember... This pussy hates cold weather...

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

You gotta remember... This pussy hates cold weather...

Guess he's smarter than people living in Ohio right now.🌬️🥶

[Korsou Dawg]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

You gotta remember... This pussy hates cold weather...

Don't be silly. He was literally giddy playing in the snow.

If DW has shown anything, it is that he absolutely loves playing football. In any weather!

 

[nickers]

3 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Don't be silly. He was literally giddy playing in the snow.

If DW has shown anything, it is that he absolutely loves playing football. In any weather!

 

Anyone would for a quarter billion...

[syd]

16 hours ago, nickers said:

You gotta remember... This pussy hates cold weather...

off your med's again nickers ? or do you all ways call yourself a pussy

[VaporTrail]

22 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

At least this trade won't be the worst in NFL history.

David Tepper and what he's currently finding a way to do in Carolina are almost at the level of needing the Stepien Rule in the NFL.. His trade for Bryce Young by itself is worse than the Watson trade, and that's the tip of the iceberg.

You're high. This trade could very well be remembered alongside the Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams, and RG3 trades. 

20 hours ago, bbedward said:

They only call it the worst in history given the allegations, people desperately want it to be.

so far it hasn’t worked out…but not because Watson isn’t a good player, just because of suspension and injury. Too early to judge 

His allegations are only relevant because it cost him a season of the contract. Watson's guaranteed money and the fact that we gave up our future to the Texans is why it will be remembered with all the trades I mentioned above. He might never be able to throw a ball again. As of right now, the guy got a quarter of a billion dollars to throw 14 TDs. 

[bbedward]

1 minute ago, VaporTrail said:

You're high. This trade could very well be remembered alongside the Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams, and RG3 trades. 

His allegations are only relevant because it cost him a season of the contract. Watson's guaranteed money and the fact that we gave up our future to the Texans is why it will be remembered with all the trades I mentioned above. He might never be able to throw a ball again. 

If he gets us to the promised land in the next 3 years it’ll be regarded as the best trade ever in Cleveland 

just I’d too early to make a determination, got a few years left before we can judge the outcome 

[Orion]

Right now, the trade for Watson stands as a very poor trade.  

Roger GoToHell screwed us out of his first year with us.  The arbitrator that the NFL had just hired decided that a 6 game suspension was appropriate.  But Roger wanted us fucked, so he changed it to 11 games.  Not a full season, so that his contract could be pushed back a year...NO, he wanted a WASTED contract year for us Browns fans.  Roger GoToHell is a piece of shit.

So, this second year of his contract, Watson thinks he's going to do his Nick Chubb impersonation and run with the ball and take on tacklers.  I think I've only seen him run and slide once.  Ergo contract year 2 is wasted.

Now, I understand the motivation for the trade.  Baker wasn't the guy to take us to a championship.  I truly believed that so I understood why they did it.  That was the only way to have a potentially really good QB to compete with the AFC QB's materialize in Cleveland.

We don't know what the next few years have in store for us with (or without) Watson...but we know that 40% of his contract has now been wasted with virtually nothing to show for it.  

  

[Westside Steve]

43 minutes ago, Orion said:

Right now, the trade for Watson stands as a very poor trade.  

Roger GoToHell screwed us out of his first year with us.  The arbitrator that the NFL had just hired decided that a 6 game suspension was appropriate.  But Roger wanted us fucked, so he changed it to 11 games.  Not a full season, so that his contract could be pushed back a year...NO, he wanted a WASTED contract year for us Browns fans.  Roger GoToHell is a piece of shit.

So, this second year of his contract, Watson thinks he's going to do his Nick Chubb impersonation and run with the ball and take on tacklers.  I think I've only seen him run and slide once.  Ergo contract year 2 is wasted.

Now, I understand the motivation for the trade.  Baker wasn't the guy to take us to a championship.  I truly believed that so I understood why they did it.  That was the only way to have a potentially really good QB to compete with the AFC QB's materialize in Cleveland.

We don't know what the next few years have in store for us with (or without) Watson...but we know that 40% of his contract has now been wasted with virtually nothing to show for it.  

  

Meaning like the worst in the history of the nfl.

WSS

[Orion]

5 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Meaning like the worst in the history of the nfl.

WSS

We can't say that yet.  In theory there's 60% of his contract still to play out.    ( Paul Warfield for Mike Phipps ?? )

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

21 hours ago, nickers said:

You gotta remember... This pussy hates cold weather...

Color me pussy

[Westside Steve]

6 hours ago, Orion said:

We can't say that yet.  In theory there's 60% of his contract still to play out.    ( Paul Warfield for Mike Phipps ?? )

I'd rather have Mike Phipps under center today just for the record. And that trade only cost us one guy that was worthy of a first draw draft pick.

By the way I don't necessarily blame the commissioner. Yes this suspension was pretty tough but they had to deal with the me too movement. If we want to blame somebody first I blame Jimmy Haslam. No player in the history of the NFL is worth that kind of resources. Not a 21-year-old Joe Namath Otto Graham Lou Groza Dan Marino Jim Brown Joe montana; nobody. Second I blame the Houston Texans for covering it up.

WSS

[Korsou Dawg]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

No player in the history of the NFL is worth that kind of resources.

Watson's contract is only the 9th total cash in the league, and 7th average. There are literally 6-8 QBs that have been valued to be worth more than DW today! The HOF'ers you mention would be making Mahomes/ Burrow/ Lamar money, which is more than Watson.

Guaranteed money is the only category where Watson leads the league. It is less relevant, because you'd better believe the other top guys are getting their full contract paid out. Mahomes will not only get his full 10 years, but will likely renegotiate more money along the way. Only possible exception is Murray, who shouldn't be making top 10 money anyway. 

@Orion's point are a lot more valid.

[bbedward]

Also most people misunderstand the browns cap situation. There was a good explainer on it, don’t know where it is off hand.

Basically Jimmy is outspending pretty much every team in the league and the way they restructure contracts lets them basically leverage the future cap, which typically is expected to increase. 
 

it’s why the browns had the most cap space in the league or close to it this year, and they will likely also have that next year when they push more cap into the future.

The draft picks are sad to lose yea, but the money spent does not jeopardize the browns future like some people thing it does.

There was some good article that I can’t find now that went over how the browns leveraged the future cap with their restructuring strategies. Basically allows them to consistently outspend the cap, and something other NFL teams could do - why they don’t do it? Probably because their owners don’t wanna spend as much money as jimmy currently is willing to

Basically they pay the players as expected, but they can elect to spread the cap impact out over future years beyond the contract. That works as long as the nfl keeps increasing the cap ceiling (which they will)

[Westside Steve]

5 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Watson's contract is only the 9th total cash in the league, and 7th average. There are literally 6-8 QBs that have been valued to be worth more than DW today! The HOF'ers you mention would be making Mahomes/ Burrow/ Lamar money, which is more than Watson.

Guaranteed money is the only category where Watson leads the league. It is less relevant, because you'd better believe the other top guys are getting their full contract paid out. Mahomes will not only get his full 10 years, but will likely renegotiate more money along the way. Only possible exception is Murray, who shouldn't be making top 10 money anyway. 

@Orion's point are a lot more valid.

Well there's a reason I said resources rather than guaranteed money.

It was at least the best deal in the NFL for Houston. They took home three number ones and got this bum off their roster.

WSS

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Color me pussy

Sounds like it's got chapped lips.

[nickers]

2 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Sounds like it's got chapped lips.

Ask Suzy Chap stick!

[Korsou Dawg]

5 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Well there's a reason I said resources rather than guaranteed money.

It was at least the best deal in the NFL for Houston. They took home three number ones and got this bum off their roster.

WSS

Keep moving the goalposts...

This """bum"""" is nowhere near the highest paid player in the league, and has all the potential to lead this Browns squad to the Superbowl. Which is exactly why he was paid, what he was paid. The Browns FO just structured it in a way that appealed to him more than the Falcons and Panthers.

The only let-downs were GoToHell going outside the rule book, and his own overzealous rushing this year!

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Keep moving the goalposts...

This """bum"""" is nowhere near the highest paid player in the league, and has all the potential to lead this Browns squad to the Superbowl. Which is exactly why he was paid, what he was paid. The Browns FO just structured it in a way that appealed to him more than the Falcons and Panthers.

The only let-downs were GoToHell going outside the rule book, and his own overzealous rushing this year!

I moved absolutely nothing. I used the word resources in my original post that you quoted and it's true. We burned three number one draft picks and the guy sucks. Is there a chance in the next couple years he doesn't suck anymore? Sure I guess it's possible. On the other hand Johnny Manziel is only 39. So I guess he's not technically out of the running for Super Bowl MVP either. 

WSS

 

[hoorta]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:42 PM, VaporTrail said:

You're high. This trade could very well be remembered alongside the Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams, and RG3 trades. 

His allegations are only relevant because it cost him a season of the contract. Watson's guaranteed money and the fact that we gave up our future to the Texans is why it will be remembered with all the trades I mentioned above. He might never be able to throw a ball again. As of right now, the guy got a quarter of a billion dollars to throw 14 TDs. 

The Hershel Walker trade is history, the final chapters of the Watson trade are yet to be written.....  

did Carolina make a bad move? Mmmmmm?  

The Panthers are close to making a bold move to trade up to the top overall pick in this year's draft thanks to a deal with the Chicago Bears Friday. According to multiple reports, the Panthers will send the Bears the ninth overall pick in this year's draft, the late second-rounder acquired from the 49ers (61st overall), along with next year's first-round pick, a 2025 second-rounder, and wide receiver DJ Moore to get to the No. 1 overall choice in this year's draft. The deal won't be official until the start of the league year next Wednesday.

So effectively, it cost Carolina a first, two seconds, and a player.....  For an unknown quantity. Watson was a pro bowl level known quantity.  

People are whining about Watson's contract, but the only difference is the guaranteed money. Other QB contracts have more on the table. Them thar Bungles are paying Joe Burrow $19 millinion tis year to have his wrist fixed.  

[VaporTrail]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, bbedward said:

If he gets us to the promised land in the next 3 years it’ll be regarded as the best trade ever in Cleveland 

just I’d too early to make a determination, got a few years left before we can judge the outcome 

Yeah, let's pump the brakes and see if he can even sling the football after this shoulder injury.

[VaporTrail]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

So effectively, it cost Carolina a first, two seconds, and a player.....  For an unknown quantity. Watson was a pro bowl level known quantity.  

Was

[Dutch Oven]

If only the Browns two year tank job in 2016 and 2017 could have produced a better #1 overall pick for a franchise QB than the guy the Browns took in 2018, all this whining about Watson could have been avoided. 

[Orion]

The money for Watson should not even be mentioned as a concern.  That's what the top tier QB's get...BIG money.  It was guaranteed in order to get him to come to the balmy Cleveland weather instead of New Orleans or Atlanta (as has been said).  The big hit on us was the three first round picks.

When the Browns did this deal, there was no hope of drafting a franchise QB, as there were none in the draft.  (Picket?)  And they didn't see Baker as the answer (of which I agreed with that back then, and now). 

Does it suck that it hasn't worked out for us so far....and that it may never work out?   Yes, of course it sucks.  But this is what it is.....in the timeline reality that we live in.  (many worlds theory)    

I'll quote the incomparable Yogi Berra, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."   -  You made a decision of which way to go based on the information you had at the time.  The arrow of time tells us that you can't go back and change it.   So you carry on as best you can.   

[AP1]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

The money for Watson should not even be mentioned as a concern.  That's what the top tier QB's get...BIG money.  It was guaranteed in order to get him to come to the balmy Cleveland weather instead of New Orleans or Atlanta (as has been said).  The big hit on us was the three first round picks.

When the Browns did this deal, there was no hope of drafting a franchise QB, as there were none in the draft.  (Picket?)  And they didn't see Baker as the answer (of which I agreed with that back then, and now). 

Does it suck that it hasn't worked out for us so far....and that it may never work out?   Yes, of course it sucks.  But this is what it is.....in the timeline reality that we live in.  (many worlds theory)    

I'll quote the incomparable Yogi Berra, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."   -  You made a decision of which way to go based on the information you had at the time.  The arrow of time tells us that you can't go back and change it.   So you carry on as best you can.   

My perspective has changed since the other QB deals were made post Watson. It's also nice knowing that we've only one more draft to deal with losing those picks for Watson and the best talent the Browns have had in three decades was still able to be assembled.