Draft Talk

[gftChris]

I have a question, not really sure it deserves it's own thread though. When Poyer went down, why didn't we re-sign Rahim Moore? He'd been with the team through all of training camp, knew the scheme, was an actual safety with experience playing the position. We tried to play Tracy Howard there, it didn't work because he was a rookie and a corner. Ed Reynolds has been underwhelming (which is basically a compliment on this team), but you've got a guy there on the couch so to speak, who you know, can basically plug and play.

 

Anyone any ideas? He's not been signed elsewhere, is still young enough to be a contributor in the future but you'd probably get him for vet minimum. In keeping with the FO plan and philosophy, why not? Why force a guy you know isn't the long term answer in Howard, rather than getting a better guy (who's probably not the long term answer) in Moore? If we had a guy we were counting on to be a big player in the future and just threw him in then sure, but that's not the case.

[gftChris]

Also who fancies a bit of draft postulating? I do. Here's a link to the CBS big board (no reason for CBS except we're all working from the same board). As it stands we have picks 1, 14, 33, 47 and 65. Others too but don't expect big contributions from them. You get to pick any player from that spot on the big board, up to say 4-5 places lower. So for pick one you get a choice of Allen, Garrett, Peppers, Trubisky, and Marlon Humphrey. Then the same for the other picks. Obviously it's not going to be exact but it's not unreasonable to think your guy will be there at roughly that pick.

 

So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:

 

1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School

14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama

33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan

47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington

65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia

 

That addresses the two non-QB positions on offense where we could use an upgrade most immediately (interior OL and complementary TE), and then adds talent to the D including an elite pass rusher.

 

If you really wanted to upgrade the front seven you could go the Alabama route and take Allan at 1 and Tim Williams at 14, and I would really, strongly hope we could get Adoree Jackson at 33, but if not Ethan Pocic would be a good alternative, but there's still some solid looking centers a little lower.

[gftChris]

And if you want to be a bit more creative, you can add two veteran FA starters, if you name them, not just "sign a FA center"

[jiggins7919]

Also who fancies a bit of draft postulating? I do. Here's a link to the CBS big board (no reason for CBS except we're all working from the same board). As it stands we have picks 1, 14, 33, 47 and 65. Others too but don't expect big contributions from them. You get to pick any player from that spot on the big board, up to say 4-5 places lower. So for pick one you get a choice of Allen, Garrett, Peppers, Trubisky, and Marlon Humphrey. Then the same for the other picks. Obviously it's not going to be exact but it's not unreasonable to think your guy will be there at roughly that pick.

 

So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:

 

1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School

14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama

33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan

47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington

65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia

 

That addresses the two non-QB positions on offense where we could use an upgrade most immediately (interior OL and complementary TE), and then adds talent to the D including an elite pass rusher.

 

If you really wanted to upgrade the front seven you could go the Alabama route and take Allan at 1 and Tim Williams at 14, and I would really, strongly hope we could get Adoree Jackson at 33, but if not Ethan Pocic would be a good alternative, but there's still some solid looking centers a little lower.

 

I'm all over that draft, with the sole exception of Jake Butt. We're already the "Butt" of every NFL joke...can't give people another reason to make fun of us! All kidding aside, I think we're "ok" at tight end. Seth Devalve looked far more comfortable, and actually looked terrific with the ball in his hands. He didn't just fall down on contact, and looked quick and strong. I also read that his blocking is progressing nicely. Only thing that worries me about him is his ability to stay on the field. He was injured in college (I think), and he was injured with us most of the year. Barnidge is a better TE than his numbers indicate. He has been negatively impacted by our terrible QB's, and our subpar OL. But I think he's ok for another year, maybe two. He's no spring chicken, but his play last year was no fluke.

 

The BIGGEST concern with your draft is that it doesn't address the QB position. It would seem foolish for us to think we'll be playing next year with our same group of QB's. Even if RG III pulls out some damn miracle and plays well, his injury history prevents him from becoming "our guy", right? Kessler doesn't have the required athletic ability to play QB for a team with a bad OL either. I'm not talking about "arm strength", I'm talking about the ability to run from pressure, and the power needed to break away from defenders. You ever notice how Cody gets touched and it's all over? Can you imagine that happening to many other starting QB's? And McCown is obviously done with...and ready for his coaching career.

[gftChris]

Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.

 

BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.

[jiggins7919]

Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.

 

BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.

 

Yeah, I don't see Hue "giving up" on Kessler at all, but I think it would be foolish to ignore his concussion history, and his physical limitations. We will undoubtedly either draft a QB, or find a way to trade for one.

[jiggins7919]

Ok, if we're adding "our own QB's" here, let's start to take a look at the "second tier" guys.

 

Brady Kaaya - QB, Miami-FL. My Seminoles have kicked his ass for several years, so that's good, LOL. But seriously, many scouts seem to like what he brings to the table. He's listed at around 6'4, 215 pounds. Looks like he could use some more muscle, but that will come. I'm sure the combine will show him at probably 6'2 and 208 pounds...you know how the schools like to inflate the numbers. Nevertheless, he has decent size, and solid potential. Here's an excerpt from an article back in August.

 

What I liked: Kaaya has quick feet in his setup and he has a smooth, fluid delivery. He throws a beautiful, tight ball and he has enough velocity to make all of the throws. He operates in a spread attack but there are plenty of examples where I see him read the entire field. He flashes the ability to anticipate and accurately deliver tight-window throws (see TD vs. Virginia Tech). He is at his best on quick-rhythm throws. The ball comes out quickly and accurately. He isn't much of a threat as a runner but he will occasionally escape and buy time.

First Look:
NFL Media analyst and former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah takes a "first look" at college football's top players for 2016.

• Michigan TE Jake Butt
• Miami QB Brad Kaaya
• Oklahoma RB Samaje Perine
• Alabama OT Cam Robinson
• LSU S Jamal Adams
• Michigan DB Jabrill Peppers
• Ohio State LB Raekwon McMillan
• USC CB Adoree' Jackson
• Missouri DE Charles Harris
• Alabama TE O.J. Howard
• Florida CB Jalen Tabor
• Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly
• Alabama OLB Tim Williams
• FSU RB Dalvin Cook
• USC WR JuJu Smith-Schuster
• Alabama DL Jonathan Allen
• Stanford RB Christian McCaffrey
• Texas A&M DE Myles Garrett
• LSU RB Leonard Fournette
• Clemson QB Deshaun Watson

Where he needs to improve: Kaaya struggled when pressured. He falls off throws and his accuracy suffers. His offensive line was leaky in these games and Kaaya took a beating (he was knocked out of the Clemson game). He also needs to work on connecting his feet to his eyes. He quickly works through progressions with his eyes but sometimes his feet fail to catch up, which causes some balls to sail. His deep-ball accuracy is another area that needs improvement. I haven't seen him play in person but he looks thin on tape. He's listed at 210 pounds. I'd like to see him closer to 225 pounds.

Biggest takeaway: Kaaya is very smooth and has plenty of arm talent. I'll be looking for him to show more poise under pressure this fall. If he can clean that up, he will take his game to a new level. It will be interesting to see how he functions in Richt's system. I see some similarities to Jared Goff and Teddy Twatwater. They share similar physical builds and arm talent but I thought Goff and Bridgewater performed better under duress.

I can't wait to see him play ... Florida State on Oct. 8. There's nothing better than a tradition-rich rivalry game. Florida State has been the superior program in the state of late but Miami has high hopes this season. Florida state is loaded with defensive talent and it will present a huge challenge for Kaaya. Safety Derwin James is one of the top defenders in the country and Kaaya will need to avoid him as the QB tries to lead the Hurricanes to a win.

FYI - Kaaya was 19-32 for 214 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT against the Noles. However, he did bring them on a potential game-tying drive in the final minutes, and it was thwarted by FSU as Demarcus Walker somehow blocked the extra point. Hehehe. Suck it, Hurricanes.

Pat Mahomes - Texas Tech, QB. At 6'2 and 215, he's got decent size, and he puts up video game numbers. Has strong enough arm, and runs about a 4.7 40. He's the quintessential "spread QB", so we all know the challenges there. But his ability to throw the ball is undeniable, and he could be a draft riser if he declares.

I don't have the time to find a better scouting report, so I'm sorry. I'll be back on later after I pound out some work. I'll also find some other QB prospects that should be available with 2nd to 5th round selections. BTW, I don't "love" any of these guys, but I'm not sure what we'll do in terms of the QB position. One of the reasons Hue Jackson was HIRED was to fix our QB problem, and he promised to address it. We shall see.

[jiggins7919]

Oh yeah, one more quick addition to the second tier QB list, and he's growing into my favorite (other than Mitch):

 

Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma, listed as 6'1 and 212 pounds, is actually compared favorably to...Johnny Manziel. Now, before you go crazy and start throwing spears at my head, they compare him to Johnny because of the way HE PLAYS, not how he acts. He has incredible "escapability", and loves to make plays out of nothing. This can get him into trouble, but he is pretty fun to watch. I don't think he is a "plug and play" option, but I could see Hue Jackson falling in love with someone like this. Like I've said a few times, it's an incredible shame that Manziel couldn't get his life together because I think he would've been an INCREDIBLE asset with Hue Jackson. I really do. I don't have time to do the research on Mayfield right now, but look him up.

[tiamat63]

Oh yeah, one more quick addition to the second tier QB list, and he's growing into my favorite (other than Mitch):

 

Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma, listed as 6'1 and 212 pounds, is actually compared favorably to...Johnny Manziel. Now, before you go crazy and start throwing spears at my head, they compare him to Johnny because of the way HE PLAYS, not how he acts. He has incredible "escapability", and loves to make plays out of nothing. This can get him into trouble, but he is pretty fun to watch. I don't think he is a "plug and play" option, but I could see Hue Jackson falling in love with someone like this. Like I've said a few times, it's an incredible shame that Manziel couldn't get his life together because I think he would've been an INCREDIBLE asset with Hue Jackson. I really do. I don't have time to do the research on Mayfield right now, but look him up.

 

 

Already watched him. He's just like Johnny in every way on the field. Panics and bails early, can't go through progressions and anticipate windows... but God damn, that ESCAPABILITY YO!!!

 

Everybody loves a scrambling QB because it's so non conventional. However not constantly effective because once you remove the offense from the gimmick, all you're left with is the latter.

 

Nobody, including Hue, should be falling in love with his ability.

 

 

edit: 6'1 212 my ass.

[jiggins7919]

LMAO. Yeah, I know. As we've mentioned, the school's measurements can be a little...generous. This kid definitely bails early, and his style needs lots of refinement. Here's the thing, when we're talking about the second tier QB group, NOBODY is going to be a perfect candidate. This guy isn't someone who can just be placed at the starter, but perhaps he has some upside.

 

I can't honestly sit here and say what we should do with the QB position. There isn't a great solution. You can say draft Mitch, but that's awfully early (if at #1), and that would take away from us drafting Garrett or even Allen. Hue Jackson hasn't been given the best hand here. He doesn't have the luxury of having the type of draft where Mariota and Winston are available (btw, how good could Hue Jackson be with Mariota?). Anyways, it's not a good situation for us. It just isn't.

 

The more I think about it, the more I wouldn't be surprised to see the Browns actually TRADE UP in 2017. That obviously goes against EVERYTHING analytics might tell our front office, but you also have to factor in the "we're running out of time" variable. I mean, how much time do these bozos think they have? Why not trade a little future stuff away if you might not be here? LOL. In all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me to see us take Garrett at #1, and then MOVE UP to take a QB. The private workouts will be interesting, and if a guy like Deshawn Watson blows up for us, maybe we don't have to trade up at all. But if we want Mitch, we'll have to make a move. A big one too. I don't have the draft chart in front of me, but if I had to guess, we'd give up a metric shitload to move up from our Eagles pick to the point where we get Mitch. In fact, it might not even be possible. Let's say our Eagles pick is at 16. Let's also say that Mitch is the first QB on the board. Well, we all know the 49's need a QB, so why would they trade with us? But for the sake of arguing, let's say they DO trade with us. That's a first rounder NEXT year, and probably a second rounder this year, and lord knows what else. Still...it wouldn't surprise me, only because we NEED a QB, and everybody is feeling the pressure.

[tiamat63]

2nd tier is Watson & Kizer.

 

Baker is a notch or two below them.

[jiggins7919]

I don't "love" Deshaun Watson, that's for sure. I read from an analyst's review that Watson is similar to Mariota, but not as fast, strong, accurate, or big. And I could be way off, but I get the idea that Hue wants a QB exactly like Mariota to run the kind of offense he likes. The more I think about it, the more I could definitely see Hue Jackson drafting Deshaun Watson with our second 1st round pick. Again, Watson isn't who I would take at QB, but I just get the idea that Watson is the style of QB that Hue Jackson wants. Again, I could be way off.

 

The biggest thing I hate about Watson is the style of offense he plays in. The offense is designed to fool defenses into screwing up so big, chunk plays can be made. Clemson runs a ton of misdirection and read-option stuff, and just about all of it from the shotgun. Watson will definitely lock onto receivers because he probably thinks they'll be open, and he throws interceptions this way. He's definitely fast, and he's definitely got an arm, but I don't love him, that's for sure. He can also throw a gorgeous deep ball, and he tosses a stellar fade route. He kind of throws the ball up and it just stays up there, spinning. His short throws aren't always accurate, and his physical frame is a bit slight, but I think that's garbage. He'll grow into his body and bulk up as he gets older.

 

It will be interesting to see how Watson's stock fluctuates in the future. He actually reminds me a bit of Trubisky, and they have a somewhat similar game.

[Tour2ma]

I read from an analyst's review that Watson is similar to Mariota, but not as fast, strong, accurate, or big.

 

lol... Looks like it would have been faster to list the similarities.

[tiamat63]

 

lol... Looks like it would have been faster to list the similarities.

 

In other words, Watson is just like Mariota minus the everything.

[gftChris]

 

In other words, Watson is just like Mariota minus the everything.

Lesser is like Brady minus the size, strength and decision making.

[jiggins7919]

Not quite, just seems like the Diet Coke of Mariota, LOL. I get what the author was saying.

[The Gipper]

So with that in mind, how does your draft go? How about something like this:

1: Myles Garrett, Edge, Texas Farming School

14: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama

33: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan

47: Budda Baker, FS, Washington

65: Tyler Orlovsky, C, West Virginia

Or, this:

1. Trubisky QB

14. Tim Williams OLB, Alabama

33. Pocic OC

47. Baker FS, OK

65.Harold Landry DE BC

???

[TexasAg1969]

You mean Baker FS, Washington?

[wargograw]

Yeah that's the 'I'm not drafting a starting QB draft'. I don't see Hue Jackson giving up on Kessler just now - I think he's going to really try and work with him in the offseason and get him to a Dalton kind of level. If it doesn't work and we're 6-10 next year then yeah another QB.

 

BUT, it wouldn't surprise me if we did draft a QB, and then the draft changes quite a bit. Feel free to put your own up.

6-10 would be solid. What are you expecting?

 

Also, Texas Farming School. Love it!

[ElkDawg]

Anyone who doesn't think Mahomes II isn't the top dawg coming out hasn't seen him play. The guy is for real and has everything you want in a starting qb. Now if the Browns draft a qb with their first pick and sit him, it is a wasted pick because our qb's currently on the team aren't worth a Damn.....

[TexasAg1969]

Anyone who doesn't think Mahomes II isn't the top dawg coming out hasn't seen him play. The guy is for real and has everything you want in a starting qb. Now if the Browns draft a qb with their first pick and sit him, it is a wasted pick because our qb's currently on the team aren't worth a Damn.....

 

He just won the Sammy Baugh award, but is it the QB or is it Kliff Kingsbury's system (remember JFF?).

 

And so far he hasn't declared for the draft has he?

[gftChris]

6-10 would be solid. What are you expecting?

 

Also, Texas Farming School. Love it!

Something in that area. 4-12 would be obviously better than this year, but if things had fallen a little differently early in the season we could be there now. I'm not sure who the starting QB will be - Kessler or RG3 my guess - but I expect to see a couple of very good draft picks coming in to solidify some shaky areas and allow us to progress. So 6-10 or 7-9 would be a good but not unreasonable improvement.

[wargograw]

I like Mahomes more than anyone else as well.

[TexasAg1969]

Just draft the whole Alabama team. They could do better than the Browns by at least 2 games a season.

[secondwave]

What does everyone think of Marlon Humphrey? The guy looks like the next Darrelle Revis. And I havent said that since Patrick Peterson.

 

Anyways,

 

My dream draft would be

 

1. Myles Garrett

6. (Trade our #13 & #65) Marlon Humphrey

33. Caleb Brantley

47. Christian McCaffrey (I don't believe in Crow)

[secondwave]

With that said,

 

I like the idea of Haden at safety to shore up our huge hole at free safety.

[tiamat63]

With that said,

 

I like the idea of Haden at safety to shore up our huge hole at free safety.

 

I used to think that was an option - but I'm not sure about that anymore.

[calfoxwc]

I like Mahomes more than anyone else as well.

really intersting kid, but it's said he wouldn't be nfl-ready. Seems to rarely drop back and set

his feet before throwing...to wide open wr's who apparently are outstanding. Very strong arm, looks

like jm with his scrambling to find a wr to throw to...He is impressive...

might very well stay in school. Maybe Trubiski stays in school... but I don't think so. But Trubisky

is the real deal as his college experience can show it.

[RoyceRolls]

Mahomes is a very interesting QB prospect. just watched his game against Oklahoma and besides the obvious size, athleticism, and arm strength, he also displayed very good pocket awareness. Mahomes senses pressure really well which allows him to extend plays and allows his receivers to get downfield.

[wargograw]

Trace Mcsorley is pretty damn money.