Draft Talk

[tiamat63]

I'm about to start taking bets that Peppers will fall down a lot of draft boards.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I'm about to start taking bets that Peppers will fall down a lot of draft boards.

 

 

I also doubt that. The hype machine is real and the dynamic playmaking ability he presents is too much for a team to pass up. Whether he'll play to the level of a top 5 player is a different matter entirely.

[Tour2ma]

Points one and two are exactly what I mean by a blank canvas, he's no better than a high school QB out there and yet still is finding success. No doubt some people actually see that as a positive rather than a negative, given that we have a supposed QB whisperer coach. s. He's not often standing in the pocket for extended periods of time, so you can't accurately

 

He won't last past the fourth round.

 

At what point do you ask, "Why is he still an blank slate?"

 

Went ahead and watched the full game tape since all the links seemed to go to the same one. Have to say I'm not seeing what you are seeing. The only time I see a solid throw is when he is scrambling towards the LOS... then, and only then, did I see him get his body into his throws. Everything else screamed "self-preservation"... falling back... falling off... even when pressure was not immediate. And when it was immediate? Folding was redoubled. Nothing screamed "4th round" that I could see.

 

I'll concede your All-22 point.... and not just because I use it, too... but I saw no evidence of him coming off his primary except when he pulled the ball down and took off laterally.

 

And lineage-wise... I get "JFF II"... minus the frantic elusiveness.

 

OU was mid-season and not exactly a patsy... although 59 points in a loss may say different. I'll spend some time later on a couple late season games against non-ranked opposition. Probably Iowa St and Baylor unless you have a game you'd suggest.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

At what point do you ask, "Why is he still an blank slate?"

 

Went ahead and watched the full game tape since all the links seemed to go to the same one. Have to say I'm not seeing what you are seeing. The only time I see a solid throw is when he is scrambling towards the LOS... then, and only then, did I see him get his body into his throws. Everything else screamed "self-preservation"... falling back... falling off... even when pressure was not immediate. And when it was immediate? Folding was redoubled. Nothing screamed "4th round" that I could see.

 

I'll concede your All-22 point.... and not just because I use it, too... but I saw no evidence of him coming off his primary except when he pulled the ball down and took off laterally.

 

And lineage-wise... I get "JFF II"... minus the frantic elusiveness.

 

OU was mid-season and not exactly a patsy... although 59 points in a loss may say different. I'll spend some time later on a couple late season games against non-ranked opposition. Probably Iowa St and Baylor unless you have a game you'd suggest.

 

I'm not seeing anything I like either. At no point did I say I like Mahomes, I'm just saying I can see why he's getting all of this hype. It's the same reason Manziel got the hype he got. It's because Russell Wilson's rookie season made it cool again to be a frantic scrambler.

 

Those links are all examples in one game of Mahomes running around and making an ill-advised throw to further support the Wilson premise.

[tiamat63]

You're confusing Johnnys mobility and runs with Wilsons.

 

 

Russ is a mobile passer. Johnny was a runner that throws.

[PoeticG]

I know it's early but this mock I just did was amazing. If it looks like this, they're doing it right!

 

Your score is: 10335 (GRADE: A)

 

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina (A)

Round 1 Pick 11: Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama (A)

Round 1 Pick 23 (PITT): Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU (A+)

Round 2 Pick 14: Ethan Pocic, C/OG, LSU (A)

Round 4 Pick 20 (MINN): Brandon Facyson, CB, Virginia Tech (A)

Round 4 Pick 25 (DET): Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas (A)

Round 4 Pick 27 (DEN): Jordan Willis, OLB, Kansas State (A+)

Round 5 Pick 25 (DET): Daniel Carlson, K, Auburn (A+)

 

Your Future Picks:

2018 Round 1 Pick

2019 Round 1 Pick

[tiamat63]

 

 

I also doubt that. The hype machine is real and the dynamic playmaking ability he presents is too much for a team to pass up. Whether he'll play to the level of a top 5 player is a different matter entirely.

 

 

Hype is dying.... and what 'playmaking' are we talking about here? On punt returns or the occasion gadget play on offense?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Hype is dying.... and what 'playmaking' are we talking about here? On punt returns or the occasion gadget play on offense?

That's exactly it. You can be as cynical as you want about players you don't like, it doesn't change the fact that they'll be taken much earlier than you anticipate.

[tiamat63]

That's exactly it. You can be as cynical as you want about players you don't like, it doesn't change the fact that they'll be taken much earlier than you anticipate.

 

 

I prefer to call it realistic. Had the same conversation with a friend of mine who was all about Tebow Mania. I said he wouldn't go top 15 but SOMEBODY would be dumb enough to take him 1st round.

I wasn't wrong.

 

I have no doubt somebody will be stupid enough to take Peppers in the 1st. I'll laugh when the do and I'll laugh even harder 3 years later.

 

edit: Point being, he was touted as a top 5 pick... I promise that talk is going the way of the dodo bird the day after bowl season.

[Tour2ma]

I'm not seeing anything I like either. At no point did I say I like Mahomes, I'm just saying I can see why he's getting all of this hype. It's the same reason Manziel got the hype he got. It's because Russell Wilson's rookie season made it cool again to be a frantic scrambler.

 

Those links are all examples in one game of Mahomes running around and making an ill-advised throw to further support the Wilson premise.

 

Got it... I was taking your posts as a defense of an endorsement.

 

At least i no longer need to fell obligated to watch more tape on him...

 

 

BTW... I watched Chad Kelly's game vs. FSU this year. I was in love after his first drive. By the end of the game? Not so much... But there is (or maybe "was") a lot to like in the kid.

[Taco918]

I think there might be potential in Kelly, especially since he will be an undervalued commodity come draft time due to his injury, but I'm assuming his off the field nonsense will make him undraftable for us due to the JM effect.

 

I legitimately can't decide if our FO would take a flier on him in the 7th or not.

[gftChris]

http://www.espn.co.uk/american-fb/draft2017/story/_/page/HotReadx161207/mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-25-questions-2017-nfl-draft-prospects-rankings-mock-draft

 

Q&A with Mel Kiper.

[TexasAg1969]

http://www.espn.co.uk/american-fb/draft2017/story/_/page/HotReadx161207/mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-25-questions-2017-nfl-draft-prospects-rankings-mock-draft

 

Q&A with Mel Kiper. (And McShay)

 

"McShay: I'll say this: It's not a great year to be drafting early and needing a quarterback."

 

"5. If you had to put your money behind one guy from this class to be the NFL's next great pass-rusher, who would it be?

Kiper: There's no question it's Texas A&M's Myles Garrett, who is No. 1 on my Big Board. He has everything teams want in a premier edge rusher. At 6-foot-5, 265 pounds, he's going to be a star. Others to keep an eye on: Alabama's Tim Williams and UCLA's Takkarist McKinley. All could go in the top 10.

6. What should the Browns do with the first pick: best player or best QB?

Kiper: The Browns have too many needs. It has to be the best player, and as I mentioned above, there's no surefire top quarterback in this class. Cleveland needs everything. No way should the Browns reach for a quarterback in this draft."

 

 

I don't always agree with Kiper, but in this instance he is right. If we reach for another name for the cross-out T-shirt, then we have a ship of fools running and ruining this program.

[flyingfooldoug]

Didn't he say about the same thing regarding Clowney a couple of years ago? That's why I wish we could have someone besides JimmyDee as the final say on talent.

I hear Ship of Fools quite often and each time, I can't help but think of our FO.

[jiggins7919]

Yeah, he did say that about Clowney, but I hesitate to make any judgments about a player who suffered catastrophic injuries. Clowney had the vaunted "microfracture" surgery, and we all know how that completely changes a player. Was Clowney better this year? Of course he was. After all, he was actually on the damn field a lot more than he was last season. Clowney's numbers weren't eye-popping, but he also played the entire season (mostly) without the premier defensive player in the league...J. J. Watt. I actually watched the Texans a few times, and Clowney definitely stands out. You immediately notice his size/speed combination, and he's a damn handful. Did he play as well as many "experts" predicted? Nope...but hopefully he remains healthy and we get to see him play with Watt. I think he could be special.

 

Edit: I got my seasons mixed up. This was his third year, and he really didn't "make the leap" as many hoped. Still, I know what I saw when I watched him. I don't know why, but I root for him. I guess I hate to see injuries, and want to see players make a comeback.

[flyingfooldoug]

So, according to many on here... he's injury prone and not worth a darn. I see him as a decent player but nothing like ESPN had him. I think kiper saw him as a mad dog in a meat market...lol

[Tour2ma]

Lady and Gentlemen... I give you the "Kiper Kiss of Death"...

 

Kiper: No way should the Browns reach for a quarterback in this draft."

[jiggins7919]

The more I think about it, the more I get pissed off. I mean, GOD FORBID we have Winston and Mariota coming out this season. Mel Kiper sure as hell isn't right all the time, and he's been wrong just as much as all of us, but he's definitely not alone in thinking that if a team needs a QB early, they're pretty screwed. It would just be so nice to have "our guy" already in our heads, and as soon as the last week of the season ends, we basically know who we're getting. Here's the thing...if we DO take an early QB, and we basically force a square peg in a round hole, how many years does that set us back? Hue Jackson recently stated that one of the primary reasons he was brought into Cleveland was to finally settle the QB quandary. As of right now, he hasn't succeeded. To be fair, it's year one, but it sure would be nice to have SOMETHING cooking, right? Derek Carr didn't win hardly at all as a rookie, but there were definitely signs that "he was the guy". (to make it worse, many fans wanted Carr).

 

So what do you do when you need a QB, and there might not be one available? Well, you have to either trade for one (virtually impossible), sign a FA (more impossible), or develop one on the roster (stop laughing). Yesterday's radio show kind of touched on this, and the Garoppolo situation was discussed. The host, Nathan, wants the deal badly, as he liked Garoppolo coming out of college. The problem is, as we've discussed, is how do you evaluate a QB in that system? If you give up an early pick for a QB, what are the odds you get Matt Cassell? Ryan Mallett? Matt Flynn from the Packers? It's enough to make your head spin.

[Tour2ma]

 

So what do you do when you need a QB, and there might not be one available?

 

Wait?

 

Seriously, you just can't force it. That's the stuff draft disasters are made of...

 

BPA at #1... Garrett or Allen or whoever tops our board. See how things fall on the way to pick #10-ish and go from there.

 

LET... THE... DRAFT... COME... TO... US...

 

 

To save time I think I'll just add my above, 2017 Draft mantra to my sig....

[gftChris]

Front seven and OL. That's what you do with our top 3 or 4 picks. Maybe a safety, but I'd rather get big uglies to knock other teams around.

 

Yeah, it sucks that there's apparently not a QB that's a can't miss guy the year we're picking first, but you can't just close your eyes, wish real hard, and turn Brandon Weeden into Joe Flacco.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Got it... I was taking your posts as a defense of an endorsement.

 

At least i no longer need to fell obligated to watch more tape on him...

 

 

BTW... I watched Chad Kelly's game vs. FSU this year. I was in love after his first drive. By the end of the game? Not so much... But there is (or maybe "was") a lot to like in the kid.

 

 

Nope, just playing devil's advocate.

 

I wish there was a Derek Carr in this draft. I think Trubisky COULD be a younger Carr-type player, but he's going to come at an elder Carr price.

 

Getting Garrett and then Trubisky would be oddly like a Mack/Carr draft. Adding a strong, young FA OL or two would be the icing on the cake.

[gftChris]

 

 

Nope, just playing devil's advocate.

 

I wish there was a Derek Carr in this draft. I think Trubisky COULD be a younger Carr-type player, but he's going to come at an elder Carr price.

 

Getting Garrett and then Trubisky would be oddly like a Mack/Carr draft. Adding a strong, young FA OL or two would be the icing on the cake.

I'm fully on board with an offseason that goes:

 

FA Safety

 

#1 Garrett/Allen

#10 Trubisky

#33 Pocic/Elfein

#45 Corner

 

Or, potentially, adding Allen first overall and then looking at someone like Tim Williams with the Iggles pick.

[The Gipper]

Lady and Gentlemen... I give you the "Kiper Kiss of Death"...

 

Browns will take the QB, but it won't be reach.

[The Gipper]

I'm fully on board with an offseason that goes:

 

FA Safety

 

#1 Garrett/Allen

#10 Trubisky

#33 Pocic/Elfein

#45 Corner

 

Or, potentially, adding Allen first overall and then looking at someone like Tim Williams with the Iggles pick.

Trubisky won't last past like #3 or 4 overall. If Browns take one of the defenders, they won't get him later....unless they trade up to like #2-3 at latest.

[TexasAg1969]

Browns will take the QB, but it won't be reach.

 

LOL! "One giant leap for mankind."

 

In fact it may be about as far as Garret's first step off the line.

 

Or to be fair about as far as Allen can toss an OLman.

[gftChris]

 

LOL! "One giant leap for mankind."

 

In fact it may be about as far as Garret's first step off the line.

 

Or to be fair about as far as Allen can toss an OLman.

If that OL is Erving, that's a long way.

[jiggins7919]

 

Wait?

 

Seriously, you just can't force it. That's the stuff draft disasters are made of...

 

BPA at #1... Garrett or Allen or whoever tops our board. See how things fall on the way to pick #10-ish and go from there.

 

LET... THE... DRAFT... COME... TO... US...

 

 

To save time I think I'll just add my above, 2017 Draft mantra to my sig....

 

Tour...there's a big part of me that completely agrees with you. We're obviously not a QB away from being "in the mix", so why rush it? Problem is, NFL coaches and front offices don't have time. They are virtually guaranteed to come back next year, but if we go another season like this one WITHOUT a potential new QB...yeesh. I would be completely fine (assuming we had tangible improvement) of bringing back everyone for a third year. We have 4 wins next year, but lost some tough games, and some young players raised eyebrows...fine. Bring them all back. But would our owner really go for that? It's one thing to SAY we want continuity, but another thing to actually do it.

 

We need a QB, that's for sure. But we also can't draft what isn't there. To make matters worse, we can't keep taking QB's in the 3rd round and hope they work out either. Sooner or later, we're going to have to spend a high pick on one. I just hope we don't panic.

[gftChris]

 

Tour...there's a big part of me that completely agrees with you. We're obviously not a QB away from being "in the mix", so why rush it? Problem is, NFL coaches and front offices don't have time. They are virtually guaranteed to come back next year, but if we go another season like this one WITHOUT a potential new QB...yeesh. I would be completely fine (assuming we had tangible improvement) of bringing back everyone for a third year. We have 4 wins next year, but lost some tough games, and some young players raised eyebrows...fine. Bring them all back. But would our owner really go for that? It's one thing to SAY we want continuity, but another thing to actually do it.

 

We need a QB, that's for sure. But we also can't draft what isn't there. To make matters worse, we can't keep taking QB's in the 3rd round and hope they work out either. Sooner or later, we're going to have to spend a high pick on one. I just hope we don't panic.

But isn't that just perpetuating the matter? There are no QBs worth taking super high so we shouldn't force it but the FO doesn't have much time so they should force it and then the fans get pissed when they see another first round QB bust and the pressure grows and the FO gets fired aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand repeat.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Here's hoping Mitch has an awful combine and terrible Sun Bowl peformance.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

But isn't that just perpetuating the matter? There are no QBs worth taking super high so we shouldn't force it but the FO doesn't have much time so they should force it and then the fans get pissed when they see another first round QB bust and the pressure grows and the FO gets fired aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand repeat.

 

 

So, in order to fix that.....give the FO more than a year.

 

 

Problem solved.