Draft Talk

[The Gipper]

 

 

I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.

 

One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.

And what would be involved in "doing beyond your due diligence"? beyond passing on them altogether.

[The Gipper]

General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.

 

I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.

 

But we agree, more to be seen.

Today at Noon, I believe he plays NC St. on TV. May have to tune in after I am done here.

[gftChris]

weren't you the one pushing so hard for Bosa last year, simply based upon his being ranked #1???......(yes).....

 

Browns have to take the best players available with every pick.....not draft to fill positions.....we need everything......

 

Take the surest shot....no matter what....(position)

Exceptions abound (special teams etc), but yes, definitely. The question seems to be Garrett or Allen, and the answer seems to depend on schematic preference, and it seems for us that would be Allen at DE next to Shelton and Bryant/Ogbah/Nassib/Meder.

 

That part seems if anything like the *easy* part. With those two guys it's difficult to get it very wrong. At #22 (because it will be 22, it just will, and we'll draft a bust) things get more complicated. Assuming a front seven cornerstone is drafted first, we probably don't dip back in to that well here, and to be honest our front seven would be relatively solid if we retain Collins. So then the question, what to do at 22? Safety, corner, OL (center especially) are all needs that we could argue are the biggest outside of QB, and it's rare to get *the* QB that low (as shown by your research).

[tiamat63]

And what would be involved in "doing beyond your due diligence"? beyond passing on them altogether.

 

To me that would involve the ENTIRE front office, coaching staff, scouting department and ownership being sold on Mitch as 'our' guy. Combing over fine details that go beyond the football field itself. Film room, personal life, influences, hobbies, background, etc etc.

 

I want a quality football player and a leader. No more undermining our FO and scouts from the ownership by thinking you're a football mind only to temporarily up season ticket sales at the expense of long term success.

[TexasAg1969]

Today at Noon, I believe he plays NC St. on TV. May have to tune in after I am done here.

 

Lost to NC St. 28-21.

[Tour2ma]

Last year? What the fuck does last year have to do with anything? Carson Wentz was likely considered a UDFA the year before he came out.

Right here, right now...it may in fact be the Cleveland Browns FO who is saying "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out".

 

I don't know if Trubisky is a "fast riser". He hadn't played before......the guys you mention below could be considered fast risers as well as before they got to play....before they got to be seen, they didn't get any run.

Last years relevance? Thicker resume... you know... like Wentz had. So a one year starter is by definition a "fast riser".

 

 

As for the rest... "likely", "may in fact"... Do you use a fucking magic 8-ball to help you post?

[gftChris]

 

 

Carson Wentz was likely considered a UDFA the year before he came out.

Hey look, it's our old friend "2 minutes on google" to the rescue!

 

Can Carson Wentz become the draft's top QB prospect?

 

ESPN's Kiper gives high praise for Wentz, ranks him No. 3 on his best senior quarterback prospects

 

Gipper, you really not to stop guessing and making shit up to suit what you're trying to say that can easily be disproved. But I'm not holding my breath...

[Mudfly]

Do you use a fucking magic 8-ball to help you post?

As I see it, yes.......without a doubt.....you may rely on it.....

[The Gipper]

 

To me that would involve the ENTIRE front office, coaching staff, scouting department and ownership being sold on Mitch as 'our' guy. Combing over fine details that go beyond the football field itself. Film room, personal life, influences, hobbies, background, etc etc.

 

I want a quality football player and a leader. No more undermining our FO and scouts from the ownership by thinking you're a football mind only to temporarily up season ticket sales at the expense of long term success.

Well....I think EVERY team that finds itself with the overall #1 pick has to have everyone on board and sold. Sure.

The thing is....with Trubisky....you might get all of that.....The quality football player, the leader....the guy with the good background etc, the guy with the potential for long term success.....AND you get the guys that fulfills the owner's desire to have a guy that would attract fans to see this team.

[The Gipper]

Last years relevance? Thicker resume... you know... like Wentz had. So a one year starter is by definition a "fast riser".

 

 

As for the rest... "likely", "may in fact"... Do you use a fucking magic 8-ball to help you post?

While I may use less football geek terminology as you....I do as much research as anyone on some of these topics.

And I just made a link to where Wentz was not considered to be in the Top 25 QB prospects in the land.

So...if you don't think that a guy that went from sub 25 prospect to #2 overall in the draft was not a fast riser, I guess anything short of a Saturn rocket does not fit that qualification for you.

[The Gipper]

Hey look, it's our old friend "2 minutes on google" to the rescue!

 

 

Yes....that is what smart people do...they look this stuff up. Sorry if the facts get in the way of your ignorant bliss.

Can Carson Wentz become the draft's top QB prospect?

 

ESPN's Kiper gives high praise for Wentz, ranks him No. 3 on his best senior quarterback prospects

 

Gipper, you really not to stop guessing and making shit up to suit what you're trying to say that can easily be disproved. But I'm not holding my breath...

 

So....as a lawyer, I know dueling experts when I see them.....Many articles did not have Wentz anywhere near the top of the QB class.

(he still may not turn out to be all that good) You may have found the one or two that did.

And listen you stupid little puke: I have been watching football....real football probably since before your mother was born.

 

But, by all means, hold your breath It can't apparently do any worse brain damage to you than has already been done.

[wargograw]

What's incredible is that despite all that football watching you've learned so little.

[flyingfooldoug]

What's incredible is that despite all that football watching you've learned so little.

Soooo, how's John boy doing now?

[TexasAg1969]

Soooo, how's John boy doing now

 

I went to a memorial service with one of my long time friends from my class at A&M who lives in Kerrville, a very small town where JM grew up and played. He indicates that his friends, who know JM better even better than his own parents, say he is back in Texas cleaning up his act and trying to get back into playing shape for next year. My friend indicated he thought a stint in Canadian football might be in the cards, but did not know whether JM was seriously considering that over another shot at the NFL. Either way I hope he is in recovery from a very serious problem.

[The Gipper]

What's incredible is that despite all that football watching you've learned so little.

And yet....the knowledge I have gained just in the last week is 10,000 times more than you know.

[The Gipper]

 

I went to a memorial service with one of my long time friends from my class at A&M who lives in Kerrville, a very small town where JM grew up and played. He indicates that his friends, who know JM better even better than his own parents, say he is back in Texas cleaning up his act and trying to get back into playing shape for next year. My friend indicated he thought a stint in Canadian football might be in the cards, but did not know whether JM was seriously considering that over another shot at the NFL. Either way I hope he is in recovery from a very serious problem.

I have said Canada may be the right place for him....since seeing him play early on for the Browns and being of the belief that his football style fits up there much better. (His life style on the other hand fits a Jamaican Gigolo)

[Unsympathetic]

Please, God, let this be the final word as to why Peppers should not be drafted by Cleveland. If he's the answer, I don't want to know what the question is.

 

"He is a good run defender who plays well in the box, but he has problems in pass coverage. He is athletic and fast enough to cover, but he gets caught flat-footed and is slow to react to cuts. That consistently allows separation. In the NFL, Peppers would be best as a strong safety who walks down into the box like Deone Bucannon. However, Peppers could get picked on in pass coverage."

 

Let some other team waste their first- or second- round pick on him. You wouldn't be incorrect if you used these words to describe either Ed Reynolds or Derrick Kindred. You know, 5th and 4th round draft picks respectively.

[PoeticG]

Looking at the draft today. Evaluating where we are with the BYE week. We are winless and beaten down. A few thoughts.

 

1- Kessler, while having only a small sample size to evaluate, I'm just not seeing it. He has some good moments but a QB has to elevate the players around him and will his team to victory. He is close and I don't want to completely abandon him but he and Hogan should be the #2 and #3 going forward. I'm over McCown and RG3. It's time to move on.

 

2- No matter who the QB is, we have to address the Oline. Thomas isn't getting any younger. Bitonio should be back and remain a stud next year. I'm concerned about the Center positon and to the right in the immediate future. Adding a Stud Center or a RG-RT would go a long way in stabilizing the Oline.

 

3- I'm needing an upgrade at TE. Someone who can block and make the catch. Barnidge and DeValve are serviceable but a difference maker is needed somewhere. Telfer needs to get back to that awesome blocking we were hearing about before his injury.

 

4- Duke Johnson and Crowell are missing something. They do just enough to keep around but just can't get over the hump when it's really needed. I'm interested in both LF and CM coming out in this draft. I would trade Crowell and Duke for those two straight up. I don't see runningback as the top need but a great runningback and a solid Oline will help make a rookie QB look really amazing, ala Dak.

 

5- I'm okay with the WR's. A positive from taking 4 in the last draft and having Pryor and possibly Gordon back next year. The Browns need to keep Pryor and Gordon, put Coleman in the slot and work in and develop the other rookies from this season. WR IMO is a luxury that we currently have.

 

That's it for Offense anyways. Well except an exceptional FB. We need to have an amazing FB that can really be like an athletic guard. Open up holes in the defense and protect the QB.

 

QB, OL, RB, TE/FB

 

I need two studs in this draft from these positons.

 

 

On defense we have a lot of young talent, we added many pieces the last few years.

 

1- I think the Defensive Front Seven are pretty solid. Starting on the front, Nassib and Shelton are good. I would think about adding a stud DT beside Shelton and letting those two disrupt and collapse the center of the Oline allowing the linebackers to move around easier.

 

2- Half of the D-line is inked in but the other side needs improving. Desmond Bryant can hold it down for next season but long term we need to find a solution.

 

3- I like our Linebackers. Ogbah, Collins, Davis, Kirksey, Schobert, Wright can get the job done.

 

4- We need improvement in both the CB and the S positions. Possibly FS and SS. This is a liability beyond anything on the defensive front seven.

 

5- I'm subscribing to the 'move Haden to Free Safety' camp. We will need a shutdown cornerback to fill his spot but having Haden over the top in both run support and ball hawking would do wonders for our Secondary. If we do that then we need only find a Shutdown Corner and we can make SS work using what we already have in Campbell and Kindred.

 

So Defensively I'm looking for two studs at DT, DE, CB, S

 

There are a lot of moving pieces but narrowing down the options helps things get a little clearer, bringing where we're going and who we want to be into focus.

 

Do we take the QB? The Passrusher? The Runningback or the Tackle? Or do we trade that overall pick to a team that needs just one of these picks to complete their roster and are willing to give us the keys to the city?

[hoorta]

Looking at the draft today. Evaluating where we are with the BYE week. We are winless and beaten down. A few thoughts.

 

1- Kessler, while having only a small sample size to evaluate, I'm just not seeing it. He has some good moments but a QB has to elevate the players around him and will his team to victory. He is close and I don't want to completely abandon him but he and Hogan should be the #2 and #3 going forward. I'm over McCown and RG3. It's time to move on.

 

2- No matter who the QB is, we have to address the Oline. Thomas isn't getting any younger. Bitonio should be back and remain a stud next year. I'm concerned about the Center positon and to the right in the immediate future. Adding a Stud Center or a RG-RT would go a long way in stabilizing the Oline.

 

3- I'm needing an upgrade at TE. Someone who can block and make the catch. Barnidge and DeValve are serviceable but a difference maker is needed somewhere. Telfer needs to get back to that awesome blocking we were hearing about before his injury.

 

4- Duke Johnson and Crowell are missing something. They do just enough to keep around but just can't get over the hump when it's really needed. I'm interested in both LF and CM coming out in this draft. I would trade Crowell and Duke for those two straight up. I don't see runningback as the top need but a great runningback and a solid Oline will help make a rookie QB look really amazing, ala Dak.

 

5- I'm okay with the WR's. A positive from taking 4 in the last draft and having Pryor and possibly Gordon back next year. The Browns need to keep Pryor and Gordon, put Coleman in the slot and work in and develop the other rookies from this season. WR IMO is a luxury that we currently have.

 

That's it for Offense anyways. Well except an exceptional FB. We need to have an amazing FB that can really be like an athletic guard. Open up holes in the defense and protect the QB.

 

QB, OL, RB, TE/FB

 

I need two studs in this draft from these positons.

 

 

On defense we have a lot of young talent, we added many pieces the last few years.

 

1- I think the Defensive Front Seven are pretty solid. Starting on the front, Nassib and Shelton are good. I would think about adding a stud DT beside Shelton and letting those two disrupt and collapse the center of the Oline allowing the linebackers to move around easier.

 

2- Half of the D-line is inked in but the other side needs improving. Desmond Bryant can hold it down for next season but long term we need to find a solution.

 

3- I like our Linebackers. Ogbah, Collins, Davis, Kirksey, Schobert, Wright can get the job done.

 

4- We need improvement in both the CB and the S positions. Possibly FS and SS. This is a liability beyond anything on the defensive front seven.

 

5- I'm subscribing to the 'move Haden to Free Safety' camp. We will need a shutdown cornerback to fill his spot but having Haden over the top in both run support and ball hawking would do wonders for our Secondary. If we do that then we need only find a Shutdown Corner and we can make SS work using what we already have in Campbell and Kindred.

 

So Defensively I'm looking for two studs at DT, DE, CB, S

 

There are a lot of moving pieces but narrowing down the options helps things get a little clearer, bringing where we're going and who we want to be into focus.

 

Do we take the QB? The Passrusher? The Runningback or the Tackle? Or do we trade that overall pick to a team that needs just one of these picks to complete their roster and are willing to give us the keys to the city?

 

Nice take PG- except for Gordon. Maybe a 1% chance he's still on the team if\when he gets reinstated.

For me it's either Trubiski or Garrett with the first pick, we're not getting both.

[PoeticG]

I think that stabilizing the QB spot with Mitch Trubisky would be pretty awesome. I like this kid, he's a baller. I like him better than Tannehill, Wentz, Goff, Bortles... all those guys.

 

We should do it.

 

Fuck. Another first round QB... but I think this time it's different. Mitch is 6'3" 220 with a physical body type. He's got the tools and the last game he played, a game in which they lost, he rallied them back and put a catchable ball to his receiver on 4th and 20 with the game on the line. That is the type of QB we need in Cleveland.

 

What would it cost us to turn that Philly pick into the #2 overall draft selection. So that we could own #1 and #2 and draft our faces of the franchise on both offense and defense?

[PoeticG]

The Browns stockpiled picks for years and selected the most players and have the youngest team in the NFL.

 

So we are loaded with young talent and we need to let them develop. Drafting another 10 rookies isn't going to help us get better.

 

This year I'm all in on consolidating our draft. Let's add 3 to 4 Exceptional Players to the mix and keep ahold of what we have here.

 

Pryor and Collins come to mind, I know there must be others. But let's say we consolidate our draft and we come out with the top 3 picks in the draft...

 

The Cleveland Browns, through wheeling and dealing have acquired the TOP 3 picks in the 2017 NFL Draft. Who are the key pieces that could fix this franchise?

[PoeticG]

I just read somewhere that the Browns have $101 Million dollars on the salary cap next season. Most in the NFL.

[The Gipper]

I think that stabilizing the QB spot with Mitch Trubisky would be pretty awesome. I like this kid, he's a baller. I like him better than Tannehill, Wentz, Goff, Bortles... all those guys.

 

We should do it.

 

Fuck. Another first round QB... but I think this time it's different. Mitch is 6'3" 220 with a physical body type. He's got the tools and the last game he played, a game in which they lost, he rallied them back and put a catchable ball to his receiver on 4th and 20 with the game on the line. That is the type of QB we need in Cleveland.

 

What would it cost us to turn that Philly pick into the #2 overall draft selection. So that we could own #1 and #2 and draft our faces of the franchise on both offense and defense?

We went over that....it would take our mid round pick that we get from Philly...plus a one next year....plus something else...a 2 or a 3.

[LogicIsForSquares]

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2016/11/28/13769094/ohio-state-football-malik-hooker-coming-back-nfl-draft

 

Hooker says he is staying in school.

 

*insert joke*

[PoeticG]

That would be worth it. It would give our guys some time to develop and we would get contributors that we need now. The draft after that we can trade out and pick up more firsts/seconds for the next draft.

 

First Round

#1- Mitch Trubisky

#2- Myles Garrett

 

Second Round

First pick of the second round, we should keep this one, trade our second second rounder to move up. We could even throw in the second rounder that the eagles give us for the following draft.

Oline or Trade for a first rounder next draft to recoup what we lost to move up and get Garrett.

 

Third Round

Oline if we trade our other second for a first next draft

 

... eh, gets confusing sorry. In a rush right now.

[PoeticG]

Would 2 seconds this year and 2 seconds next year let us keep our Eagles pick from this draft. Giving us three first rounders? Seems as how our second rounder will be the first pick of the second round, it's almost a first rounder.

[The Gipper]

From what I gather, Ohio State only must lose 4 seniors: OC Pat Elflein, backup WRs Dontrel Wilson and Corey Smith...and their punter.

Others that could go include Barrett, Samuel, Hooker, Billy Price, Garreon Conley, Tyquan Lewis, Raekwon McMillan.

[PoeticG]

Trade away 4 second round picks, one of which is borderline first rounder for the #2 overall...

 

Then we could get our Franchise QB. Mitch Trubisky

 

We get our Defensive Menace. Myles Garrett

 

Then we could get what? Christian McCaffery? Cam Robinson? One of the big TEs? Or Maybe a Stud Safety or Cornerback?

 

That would allow us to keep our first rounder next year. We'd still have the rest of our later round picks, which are plenty to draft for depth. We have a blank check so to speak in cap room which would be well suited to franchise Collins if he doesn't want to stay.

 

This would allow for another season of development of our young players to see what we really have, because until we get healthy and gel as a team we still don't know what we really have. Another year in the system and contingency go a long way for younger players.

[The Gipper]

Trade away 4 second round picks, one of which is borderline first rounder for the #2 overall...

 

Then we could get our Franchise QB. Mitch Trubisky

 

We get our Defensive Menace. Myles Garrett

 

Then we could get what? Christian McCaffery? Cam Robinson? One of the big TEs? Or Maybe a Stud Safety or Cornerback?

 

That would allow us to keep our first rounder next year. We'd still have the rest of our later round picks, which are plenty to draft for depth. We have a blank check so to speak in cap room which would be well suited to franchise Collins if he doesn't want to stay.

 

This would allow for another season of development of our young players to see what we really have, because until we get healthy and gel as a team we still don't know what we really have. Another year in the system and contingency go a long way for younger players.

OK, well, lets not go overboard.

 

Let's say you did have 3 first round picks. For the Cleveland Browns.....2 out of 3 would end up being complete busts.

[PoeticG]

Trubisky/Garrett/McCaffery

 

Call it, it's a wrap.