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Jonathan Paul Manziel

Adoug319

By Adoug319
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BaconHound Newbie

BaconHound

Posted
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Reasonable people understand that this is a long process. Now do I want to see improvement next year? Sure....but do I expect JF to become Peyton manning by the middle of next year? No....what I do expect is for him to work hard and keep getting better

 

Why is Manziel so far behind Carr in this process?

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jcam222 Enthusiast

jcam222

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Look, I was never a huge supporter of Manziel, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him but -

 

  • He threw a grand total of two passes before we were down 17-0. One was a catch on the out, the other should've been caught on 3rd and 13 to Hawkins. If Hawkins hangs onto that ball, Johnny is 2/2 and the drive continues
  • When you're down 17 points, playaction isn't going to fool anyone
  • 3/5 of the offensive line can't block, so they mush rushed 3 with a spy and put the rest in coverage because they didn't have to respect the run
  • Our defensive front 7 played fucking horribly. We were consistently dominated in the trenches.
  • We still lack discipline. Too many fucking penalties.
I just think that there are very few QBs who would have succeeded given those conditions.
first I'll say great and well thought out post. I actually agree with almost all of it. I doubt there are more than a handful of QB's who would have got a win out of the teams effort today. Most however would have done SOMETHING. Just one small glimpse of any kind of greatness or talent. I simply saw nothing.
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Browns149 Mentor

Browns149

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Besides Arron Rodgers, when has developing a QB been a long process?

 

Tom Brady was in there his rookie year, so were BOTH Mannings, so was Russ Wilson,

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Manzier Newbie

Manzier

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first I'll say great and well thought out post. I actually agree with almost all of it. I doubt there are more than a handful of QB's who would have got a win out of the teams effort today. Most however would have done SOMETHING. Just one small glimpse of any kind of greatness or talent. I simply saw nothing.

Thats it. I know we sucked. Everybody sucked. But, since we sucked, it would have been nice to see a glimpse or glimmer of something good from him. Last week, first drive was exciting(not really great from a qb stand point) but exciting. And he got a score in an otherwise bad bad game. That was a bright spot. But this week there was nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

 

And you guys calling people faggot bitches for simply telling the truth are pretty thin skinned. Grow some balls.

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Browns149 Mentor

Browns149

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All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen

 

No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.

 

But yet that's what we did.

 

I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME

 

also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY

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BaconHound Newbie

BaconHound

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Carr has had a number of horrid starts this year....he's also had a number of decent to good ones. I would expect that over the same number of games manziel will have that distribution too(some like today and some much better)

 

I'm not sure of your allegiance but Manziel looked lost today. It wasn't just a bad start, he didn't look like he belonged on the field.

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WinstonLegthigh Newbie

WinstonLegthigh

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Look, I was never a huge supporter of Manziel, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him but -

 

  • He threw a grand total of two passes before we were down 17-0. One was a catch on the out, the other should've been caught on 3rd and 13 to Hawkins. If Hawkins hangs onto that ball, Johnny is 2/2 and the drive continues
  • When you're down 17 points, playaction isn't going to fool anyone
  • 3/5 of the offensive line can't block, so they mush rushed 3 with a spy and put the rest in coverage because they didn't have to respect the run
  • Our defensive front 7 played fucking horribly. We were consistently dominated in the trenches.
  • We still lack discipline. Too many fucking penalties.
I just think that there are very few QBs who would have succeeded given those conditions.

Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.

 

Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.

 

Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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Reasonable people understand that this is a long process. Now do I want to see improvement next year? Sure....but do I expect JF to become Peyton manning by the middle of next year? No....what I do expect is for him to work hard and keep getting better

 

What I want to see is the Manzealots stop defending Manziel when he posts a 27 qbr, but run Hoyer out of town when he posts a 32.

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Tacosman Newbie

Tacosman

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What I want to see is the Manzealots stop defending Manziel when he posts a 27 qbr, but run Hoyer out of town when he posts a 32.

? Hoyer was always just a temporary stopgap, nobody ran him out of town. He's a career backup who filled in during a qb transition. This was never about Brian hoyer,

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Westside Steve Grand Master

Westside Steve

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http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Johnny_Manziel_PostGame_Press_Conference_1214/ae863817-54ad-419a-b28b-ca4a9e728e73

 

Just me or is there a lot of the same, non-royal "we" and "us" and "team as a whole" type stuff found to be so off-putting from Hoyer.

It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.

 

Because you aren't stupid.

 

And if anybody had a right to blame it on a team lost this might be a good time. A team loss might be when your defense lets the opposition run at will. A team loss might include a non existent running game. A team loss might involve no return game. And a team loss would also feature terrible quarterback performance.

 

I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.

 

WSS

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Zombo Rising Star

Zombo

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JF struck the right approach. Basically, the focus is- what can I do to get better? To make us better?

 

I think in evaluating a young qb, you look at 4 game increments....so starting next year, look at games 1-4 and ask- did he make improvement? Then in games 5-8 next year- did he make progress on the previous 4 games?

 

Guys, developing a young qb is often a LONG process. Patience.

 

Well, we don't have time to train midgets. Get Hoyer back out there and give us a 50/50 shot each week.

 

Zombo

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Agreed on most all of this. The only thing that worries me about his performance today was that he did nothing to impress me. Not one "wow" play at all in the game, even in garbage time.

More than wow lacking, what worries me is the number of passes not made on time in a timing offense.

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.

 

Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.

The premature bailing out of the pocket was in evidence yesterday.

Exact same pre-draft analysis here.

Exact same post-draft hopes as well. Better skill set than Wilson. Question is "the head".

 

I know you are not suggesting that the whole team actually "conspired to suck", but I think it is fair to say that they were looking for inspiration from JM that never came.

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Pats_Fan93 Newbie

Pats_Fan93

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Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.

 

Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.

 

Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.

 

 

I agree with your attitude, and I entirely agree with everything in your post minus the Russel Wilson bit. I think as much as Johnny has the mobility part down, Wilson is a much better passer and unless Johnny can get his passing skills in the pocket up to where he is great at an NFL level, he won't be comparable to Wilson.

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Zombo Rising Star

Zombo

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Put Hoyer back in, and lets try to win these last two games.

 

He's not an NFL QB, just pull the plug on this shit right now, make him a situational player, sign Hoyer to a modest extension and draft a real QB to develop.

 

Z

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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Besides Arron Rodgers, when has developing a QB been a long process?

Rodgers was ready at least one year before he started after GB had had enough of Favre's on again/ off again retirement. How much earlier than that we'll never know.

 

Hoyer was always just a temporary stopgap, nobody ran him out of town. He's a career backup who filled in during a qb transition. This was never about Brian hoyer,

Been hearing this for months on end. That's the problem with you Johnny-come-latelys... you come in waves.

 

I'm a Manziel fan but he is too short for the Big League. He lacks vision. Literally. And he will never be a Russel Wilson.

Curious as to why you think he can never be Russell...

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Tour2ma Contributor

Tour2ma

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It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.

 

I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.

And analyzers gonna analyze...

 

Specific names? Correct, none mentioned save Hawk (except in passing), and Hawk's was a positive ref. But I do not feel I am misrepresenting anything, Steve. There is a fair amount of the all inclusive "We have to play better"... same as Hoyer.

 

Just did a count..

I's - ~18 including a surprising amount of deluded, self-appraisal, e.g. "I did not think the game was too fast for me." "I was prepared."

 

We's - ~22 including the above example plus, "team thing" and "we did not make plays on 3rd down."

 

My original point was simply that many statements were identical to those Hoyer made in his pressers. Statements that lovers here jumped upon...

 

Lovers gonna love...

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calfoxwc Grand Master

calfoxwc

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Well... I think Conner Shaw could have played better than Manziel did.

 

He wouldn't have been partying cross country like Manziel - he'd have been

working all this time to be successful when he got his chance to start.......... dammit.

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