Baker to Carolina

[Riffer X]

3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Funny how everyone is yapping about what the Browns had to fork out to get rid of Mayfield.

Yet nobody is talking about the shit for brains that extended his contract THEN went shopping for his replacement.

If AB worked for any competent company, his ass would’ve been fired for pissing away millions of dollars.

But the Browns doesn’t qualify as a competent organization.

@Canton Dawg your post is common sensical in approach, but did you really think the Browns wouldn't pick up his option? Do you not agree that things are always fluid in the NFL and can change quickly? Not trying to give you any shit here either, but genuinely curious as to why you think it would be sensible to give Baker big money and extend him for years just because we picked up his option after he had a good season. 

He was not good last year. It was all over film and there were all kinds of other rumblings regarding his leadership or lack thereof, along with social media drama with him and his wife. I could go on and on, but the Browns were moving on regardless of the Watson scenario. Picking up an option is to further evaluate a player before risking a huge money investment, that's unless the player obviously sucks and Baker didn't at the time.

This board is very polarized by Baker and full of agendas on both sides of the coin. Hopefully, we hear something on Watson soon and move on. 

Personally, and I posted this on Flugel's thread before Cal started this one, Baker will go down in Browns history as a top 5 QB. I don't care what generation, those are the facts. Trying to wipe away his accomplishments is just as ridiculous as claiming the Browns should have went into this season with him as a lame duck after the drama of last season and piss poor performance.  

[SdBacker80]

7 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

DW has a .519 career win/loss record.

So don’t you find it strange he’s making $230 million?

No i don’t.

And let’s  bring in the Baker Built in excuses.  Texans had two years of playoff football with Watson at QB and Hopkins at WR.  They trade away Hopkins and suffer through HC change and go 4-12.

 

 

[Riffer X]

5 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Who offered more that we got? Were their any other teams interested?  My feeling is if Baker was all that good, we would have had multiple teams seeking his services no matter the thought that we didn't have leverage.  If Baker was good enough, we would have had leverage because multiple interested teams would have created said leverage.

 

A note on Cals numbers posted.  The game is different than when Otto played.  Posting up numbers that show Baker just behind Otto doesn't make Baker set to be better than Otto Graham.

 

And just to be clear.  I like Baker and wanted to draft him. I would have been good with keeping him, but he wasn't a great QB.  He was a middle of the pack QB.  We could win with him, but probably not because of him.

@ballpeen this was bad timing for Baker given all the variables (his mouth, whispers the Browns wanted an adult at QB, the bad blood separation, his injury, coming off a bad season, being a video gaming junkie rather than a film junkie etc).

Being on the last year of his contract and being injured on top of it (still hasn't passed the physical that I know of - but I could be wrong on that), he just isn't considered a valuable commodity given the teams who need a QB and their situations. The majority of them are most likely tanking to draft a guy next year, and this may be becoming a new thing where drafting rookies is much more cap effective than extending these guys to huge deals. Baker could be just good enough to win enough games for a team looking to draft high next year. Jimmy G is in a similar situation without the baggage and he is still sitting out there. 

There's also whispers that Baker has put on about 20 pounds similar to 2019 with Fast Fredward. I don't know how true those rumors are, but he does love his video games. 

I honestly don't even expect him to start against us, I don't think he will be ready even if he does end up winning the job eventually (assuming they keep Darnold). I know Carolina wanted to finally pull the trigger before camp to get him in there (this deal was on the table since the draft), but he still doesn't have a ton of time to get ready. This is a guy who doesn't have a rep as a film junkie to quickly pick up a new scheme and he also has to get healthy, get in shape and develop chemistry with his new teammates where guys like Robbie Anderson are already on record for making comments of not liking him before the trade.

[mjp28]

Wow did I have a dream last night about the Cleveland Browns football and The BROWNS BOARD at 2:36 am and........

.......oh iit wasn't a dream.  

And I didn't fall asleep until about 5 am, whew.

[nickers]

6 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Who offered more that we got? Were their any other teams interested?  My feeling is if Baker was all that good, we would have had multiple teams seeking his services no matter the thought that we didn't have leverage.  If Baker was good enough, we would have had leverage because multiple interested teams would have created said leverage.

 

A note on Cals numbers posted.  The game is different than when Otto played.  Posting up numbers that show Baker just behind Otto doesn't make Baker set to be better than Otto Graham.

 

And just to be clear.  I like Baker and wanted to draft him. I would have been good with keeping him, but he wasn't a great QB.  He was a middle of the pack QB.  We could win with him, but probably not because of him.

He really wasn't given a chance to be great.. The Browns got over zealous and football greedy... Watson will have ZERO impact on this team... Just watch,,, Nothing will be better because the 3 assholes running this show still run the team and Kirk Cousins didnt exactly set the world on fire with Shitpantskis tuteledge....In fact their offense got better when Kevvy left..... Watson is FOOLS GOLD... He will be lucky to to lead this team to a bowl of dawg scraps let alone a SB... This team will not sniff the playoffs this year... I predict Shitpantski will get shit canned and replaced by Eric Bienemy.. And the Clowns will be scratching their heads trying to dump DeWeirdos contract... I totally HATE this move... The Browns are stupid ass C L O W N S!

[mjp28]

9 minutes ago, Riffer X said:

@ballpeen this was bad timing for Baker given all the variables (his mouth, whispers the Browns wanted an adult at QB, the bad blood separation, his injury, coming off a bad season, being a video gaming junkie rather than a film junkie etc).

Being on the last year of his contract and being injured on top of it (still hasn't passed the physical that I know of - but I could be wrong on that), he just isn't considered a valuable commodity given the teams who need a QB and their situations. The majority of them are most likely tanking to draft a guy next year, and this may be becoming a new thing where drafting rookies is much more cap effective than extending these guys to huge deals. Baker could be just good enough to win enough games for a team looking to draft high next year. Jimmy G is in a similar situation without the baggage and he is still sitting out there. 

There's also whispers that Baker has put on about 20 pounds similar to 2019 with Fast Fredward. I don't know how true those rumors are, but he does love his video games. 

I honestly don't even expect him to start against us, I don't think he will be ready even if he does end up winning the job eventually (assuming they keep Darnold). I know Carolina wanted to finally pull the trigger before camp to get him in there (this deal was on the table since the draft), but he still doesn't have a ton of time to get ready. This is a guy who doesn't have a rep as a film junkie to quickly pick up a new scheme and he also has to get healthy, get in shape and develop chemistry with his new teammates where guys like Robbie Anderson are already on record for making comments of not liking him before the trade.

That all sounds right about BRM and his timing and injuries......and the part about the Browns wanting an adult at QB.....

.......and somehow the Browns ended up with adult movies and QB all mixed together. 

And after a $ ¼ BILLION+ outlaid and right now no confirmed starting quarterback for game 1.    Or something like that

What a mess.   

[Canton Dawg]

23 minutes ago, Riffer X said:

@Canton Dawg your post is common sensical in approach, but did you really think the Browns wouldn't pick up his option?
 

Since Baker had a bad year, I was surprised they extended him. The timing was also suspicious because it wasn’t like there was a time constraint to extend the 5th year option???

Do you not agree that things are always fluid in the NFL and can change quickly?
 

Absolutely.

Not trying to give you any shit here either, but genuinely curious as to why you think it would be sensible to give Baker big money and extend him for years just because we picked up his option after he had a good season. 
 

I wasn’t of the mindset of giving Baker a big contract, as he didn’t really do anything to deserve it. I was ok with extending his contract for the 5th year to see what he can do when healthy. If he sucked, 2023 looks to be a good QB class.

He was not good last year. It was all over film and there were all kinds of other rumblings regarding his leadership or lack thereof, along with social media drama with him and his wife.

So I take it you’re ok with the baggage DW brings with him?

I could go on and on, but the Browns were moving on regardless of the Watson scenario. Picking up an option is to further evaluate a player before risking a huge money investment, that's unless the player obviously sucks and Baker didn't at the time.

This board is very polarized by Baker and full of agendas on both sides of the coin. Hopefully, we hear something on Watson soon and move on. 

Personally, and I posted this on Flugel's thread before Cal started this one, Baker will go down in Browns history as a top 5 QB. I don't care what generation, those are the facts. Trying to wipe away his accomplishments is just as ridiculous as claiming the Browns should have went into this season with him as a lame duck after the drama of last season and piss poor performance.  
 

Just so you know where I stand on Watson, I think he’s a slight upgrade over Mayfield and the numbers show it. But no way in hell is he worth the draft capital and money Haslam paid for. If he doesn’t bring a SB Championship to Cleveland very quickly, this player acquisition will be one of the all time worst deals in Browns history.

 

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

No i don’t.

And let’s  bring in the Baker Built in excuses.  Texans had two years of playoff football with Watson at QB and Hopkins at WR.  They trade away Hopkins and suffer through HC change and go 4-12.

 

 

You want to bring in the Baker built in excuses…while bringing in DW’s built in excuses. 🤣

[Riffer X]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

That all sounds right about BRM and his timing and injuries......and the part about the Browns wanting an adult at QB.....

.......and somehow the Browns ended up with adult movies and QB all mixed together. 

And after a $ ¼ BILLION+ outlaid and right now no confirmed starting quarterback for game 1.    Or something like that

What a mess.   

People should stop being so shortsighted about Watson and look at this as an investment. He may very well be our QB for the next 10 years, so whatever BS suspension he gets to start this season off will end up just being a blip on the radar in the big picture. Brissett is a solid QB as well, I went back and watched four of his starts last year and he should flourish in this offense. 

[Riffer X]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

 

@Canton Dawg  I'm just going to address your responses or questions instead of trying to quote them directly.

Canton Dawg: "Since Baker had a bad year, I was surprised they extended him. The timing was also suspicious because it wasn’t like there was a time constraint to extend the 5th year option???"

Riffer X: Not sure I completely understand your question here, but teams have timeframes to exercise options on rookie contracts. On April 23rd, 2021, Cleveland (CLE) exercised an $18.858 million option for 2022. This is absolutely and completely normal, especially given the (relatively speaking) cheap starting QB contract BM was under. Remember, we just came off the most successful season since 1994 under Belichick with BM playing the best football of his career the final half of the season. He just beat Pitt in a road playoff game, so it was an absolute no-brainer that they picked up his option. Anything else would have caused a firestorm. All this was doing was extending his rookie contract to 5 years, it wasn't giving him a raise or anything.

Canton Dawg: "I wasn’t of the mindset of giving Baker a big contract, as he didn’t really do anything to deserve it. I was ok with extending his contract for the 5th year to see what he can do when healthy. If he sucked, 2023 looks to be a good QB class."

Riffer X: We are in agreement here, which is why you pick up his fifth-year option assuming he will be auditioning for his big contract extension in 2022. He blew that in 2021 for a myriad of reasons.

Canton Dawg: "So I take it you’re ok with the baggage DW brings with him?"

and

"Just so you know where I stand on Watson, I think he’s a slight upgrade over Mayfield and the numbers show it. But no way in hell is he worth the draft capital and money Haslam paid for. If he doesn’t bring a SB Championship to Cleveland very quickly, this player acquisition will be one of the all time worst deals in Browns history."

Riffer X: I have no issues whatsoever with Watson's baggage because I personally think this is a money grab and have all along. Now, does the guy have some fetishes that counseling could help? Sure, but as I told MJP, Watson is an investment, and the sooner fans view him that way the better off they will be. He has never had any other issues besides this massage BS and is considered a film rat, hardcore competitor and good leader. 

We disagree here. Watson is an elite QB who has never had a cockpit to play behind like we have here. He is a huge upgrade over Mayfield with his legs and mobility alone, and his stats are much better than Baker's. Watson is an elite QB, whereas Baker is mid-tier at best with occasional glimpses of stellar play. I highlighted many of the big differences below.

Watson Passing

Watson Rushing and Receiving

 

Mayfield Passing

Mayfield Rushing and Receiving

 

[Canton Dawg]

14 minutes ago, Riffer X said:

@Canton Dawg  I'm just going to address your responses or questions instead of trying to quote them directly.

Canton Dawg: "Since Baker had a bad year, I was surprised they extended him. The timing was also suspicious because it wasn’t like there was a time constraint to extend the 5th year option???"

Riffer X: Not sure I completely understand your question here, but teams have timeframes to exercise options on rookie contracts. On April 23rd, 2021, Cleveland (CLE) exercised an $18.858 million option for 2022. This is absolutely and completely normal, especially given the (relatively speaking) cheap starting QB contract BM was under. Remember, we just came off the most successful season since 1994 under Belichick with BM playing the best football of his career the final half of the season. He just beat Pitt in a road playoff game, so it was an absolute no-brainer that they picked up his option. Anything else would have caused a firestorm. All this was doing was extending his rookie contract to 5 years, it wasn't giving him a raise or anything.

Canton Dawg: "I wasn’t of the mindset of giving Baker a big contract, as he didn’t really do anything to deserve it. I was ok with extending his contract for the 5th year to see what he can do when healthy. If he sucked, 2023 looks to be a good QB class."

Riffer X: We are in agreement here, which is why you pick up his fifth-year option assuming he will be auditioning for his big contract extension in 2022. He blew that in 2021 for a myriad of reasons.

Canton Dawg: "So I take it you’re ok with the baggage DW brings with him?"

and

"Just so you know where I stand on Watson, I think he’s a slight upgrade over Mayfield and the numbers show it. But no way in hell is he worth the draft capital and money Haslam paid for. If he doesn’t bring a SB Championship to Cleveland very quickly, this player acquisition will be one of the all time worst deals in Browns history."

Riffer X: I have no issues whatsoever with Watson's baggage because I personally think this is a money grab and have all along. Now, does the guy have some fetishes that counseling could help? Sure, but as I told MJP, Watson is an investment, and the sooner fans view him that way the better off they will be. He has never had any other issues besides this massage BS and is considered a film rat, hardcore competitor and good leader. 

We disagree here. Watson is an elite QB who has never had a cockpit to play behind like we have here. He is a huge upgrade over Mayfield with his legs and mobility alone, and his stats are much better than Baker's. Watson is an elite QB, whereas Baker is mid-tier at best with occasional glimpses of stellar play. I highlighted many of the big differences below.

Watson Passing

Watson Rushing and Receiving

 

Mayfield Passing

Mayfield Rushing and Receiving

 

Just 2 wrinkles I’ll throw your way about Watson.

First, he played the majority of his games in the AFC South…probably the weakest division in the league.

Second, Watson was the most sacked QB in 2019/2020.

If all of the DW fans think he’s going to waltz into Cleveland and March us to a SB victory, I have news for you.

[Riffer X]

6 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Just 2 wrinkles I’ll throw your way about Watson.

First, he played the majority of his games in the AFC South…probably the weakest division in the league.

Second, Watson was the most sacked QB in 2019/2020.

If all of the DW fans think he’s going to waltz into Cleveland and March us to a SB victory, I have news for you.

Well, that's your opinion. I mean, why root for the team if you think they have no shot at a Super Bowl? To each their own. 

[Riffer X]

 

[Orion]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:17 AM, MLD Woody said:

It is funny seeing this place go through it's usual cycle where a player is perfect in every way and then next thing you know, when they're no longer here or on the way out, that player is trash, a diva, cocky, etc...

 

I feel like I've watch this movie a dozen times in the time I've been on this board

Well...did you watch this past season, the movie where a bunch of us were not satisfied with 'the player'?  His decision making, his constant missing receivers high over the middle, his inability to take us down the field at the end of the game to get us points and a victory?

That movie was playing too.  It usually played after the Sunday at 1:00 movie that we all watched.....including the Browns brain-trust...who decided not to give him a new contract before the season and subsequently decided to move on.

Now, I didn't trash him during his lame duck time here after the Watson signing.  But let me ask this, does anyone rule out the possibility of Baker making some kind of gesture or brief 'scene' of his resentment against the Browns during the game on opening day?  Is he too 'mature' now for that kind of thing, do ya think?   

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Are we blaming Baker for anything that happened in 2019 when he left clean pockets more than any other QB in The NFL?

I always found it interesting how little flak Baker got for showing up to his second season fat, out-of-shape and obviously unprepared mentally for the coming season. 

That wasn't Freddie's fault. 

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

You want to bring in the Baker built in excuses…while bringing in DW’s built in excuses. 🤣

Sorry I’m conditioned to them.  
 

I wanted him to succeed more than anyone. 
 

We are in this position because of Baker.  Not our line, not stefanski or any other coach, not our WRs, get ready…not even Haslem.
 

 If Baker could compete with the Elite  we wouldn’t be turning over another stone. 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Just 2 wrinkles I’ll throw your way about Watson.

First, he played the majority of his games in the AFC South…probably the weakest division in the league.

Second, Watson was the most sacked QB in 2019/2020.

If all of the DW fans think he’s going to waltz into Cleveland and March us to a SB victory, I have news for you.

If any Browns fans think the acquisition of Watson guarantees even a Super Bowl appearance, they are insane.

What the acquisition of Watson has done, simply, is increase the likelihood. 

[SdBacker80]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I always found it interesting how little flak Baker got for showing up to his second season fat, out-of-shape and obviously unprepared mentally for the coming season. 

That wasn't Freddie's fault. 

amnesia…

That was the Oline and Freddie’s fault. 

We needed a couple Joe Thomas and a better play calling savant 

 

[calfoxwc]

13 minutes ago, Orion said:

Well...did you watch this past season, the movie where a bunch of us were not satisfied with 'the player'?  His decision making, his constant missing receivers high over the middle, his inability to take us down the field at the end of the game to get us points and a victory?

oh, please. blaming the qb because he was injured, shouldn't have been playing, wr's weren't getting open, the secondary could just sit on shorter routes, while not having an experienced deep threat on the roster?

I mean, seriously. It's a team game. Were you listening when Doug Dieken lamented that wr's kept NOT getting open???????

[tiamat63]

4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Just 2 wrinkles I’ll throw your way about *Manning*

First, he played the majority of his games in the AFC South…probably the weakest division in the league.

 

Replaced Watson's name with, well... you can tell.  A QB who played in an era of an even weaker AFCS.

I think it should help illustrate how silly your attempt at the 1st point was.

4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Second, Watson was the most sacked QB in 2019/2020.

 

 

Baker was 8th in 2019

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2019

 

and look at that....    4th in 2021

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacked-qb-in-2021

 

Just behind the likes of Burrow, Tannehill and Wilson.     Did you also want me to post individual and collective Oline grades for those seasons as well?

You may not realize it, but if your attempt of saying "DUURRR SACKS" is to somehow demean Deshaun, it also ends up as a doubled edged sword against Baker.  

 

edit: Not to get into a Watson/Mayfield debate.  That is just dumb at this point.    Only wanted to point out your contradiction and poor example is all.  Perfectly fine with any opinions, so long as those are backed with some better material to support it.

 

double edit: To disarm your (likely response) No, I'm not calling Watson Manning.   My rebuttal was only to highlight how flimsy it was to use the AFCS as a 'reason'.

[LondonBrown]

Obviously Watson is a far better QB than Mayfield but that doesn't mean BM is a bad one. Both things can be true.

Clearly the FO and HC were tired of BM's attitude or performance around the place. I think he is good enough to play for a team most years if he grows up a bit, that team will win some games cos of him and it will lose some games cos of him.

He deserves some credit for where we were the night he came in against the Jets to how we nearly and probably should have beat the Chiefs in the playoffs (im still not over the head on Higgins). No hard feelings toward him at all and Im surprised any Browns fan would have.

 

[FY56]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:50 AM, Canton Dawg said:

 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

3 hours ago, Riffer X said:

 

Fuk Him and the Panthers.  Go Browns!

[Orion]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Were you listening when Doug Dieken lamented that wr's kept NOT getting open???????

Did you see OBJ's dad's video?   I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open.  Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?

Baker wanted things to be about him.  Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.   

Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB.  He's the best we've had since our return.  But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's.  I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too.  And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.   

[FY56]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If any Browns fans think the acquisition of Watson guarantees even a Super Bowl appearance, they are insane.

What the acquisition of Watson has done, simply, is increase the likelihood. 

Can't be guaranteed obviously but expecting a Super Bowl appearance resulting from this deal does not constitute being insane.  To begin with I would define insanity in this case as the obscene cost paid for acquiring Watson...then being OK with merely "increasing the likelihood" of an SB appearance.

 

 

[PoeticG]

11 hours ago, Riffer X said:

@Canton Dawg  I'm just going to address your responses or questions instead of trying to quote them directly.

Canton Dawg: "Since Baker had a bad year, I was surprised they extended him. The timing was also suspicious because it wasn’t like there was a time constraint to extend the 5th year option???"

Riffer X: Not sure I completely understand your question here, but teams have timeframes to exercise options on rookie contracts. On April 23rd, 2021, Cleveland (CLE) exercised an $18.858 million option for 2022. This is absolutely and completely normal, especially given the (relatively speaking) cheap starting QB contract BM was under. Remember, we just came off the most successful season since 1994 under Belichick with BM playing the best football of his career the final half of the season. He just beat Pitt in a road playoff game, so it was an absolute no-brainer that they picked up his option. Anything else would have caused a firestorm. All this was doing was extending his rookie contract to 5 years, it wasn't giving him a raise or anything.

Canton Dawg: "I wasn’t of the mindset of giving Baker a big contract, as he didn’t really do anything to deserve it. I was ok with extending his contract for the 5th year to see what he can do when healthy. If he sucked, 2023 looks to be a good QB class."

Riffer X: We are in agreement here, which is why you pick up his fifth-year option assuming he will be auditioning for his big contract extension in 2022. He blew that in 2021 for a myriad of reasons.

Canton Dawg: "So I take it you’re ok with the baggage DW brings with him?"

and

"Just so you know where I stand on Watson, I think he’s a slight upgrade over Mayfield and the numbers show it. But no way in hell is he worth the draft capital and money Haslam paid for. If he doesn’t bring a SB Championship to Cleveland very quickly, this player acquisition will be one of the all time worst deals in Browns history."

Riffer X: I have no issues whatsoever with Watson's baggage because I personally think this is a money grab and have all along. Now, does the guy have some fetishes that counseling could help? Sure, but as I told MJP, Watson is an investment, and the sooner fans view him that way the better off they will be. He has never had any other issues besides this massage BS and is considered a film rat, hardcore competitor and good leader. 

We disagree here. Watson is an elite QB who has never had a cockpit to play behind like we have here. He is a huge upgrade over Mayfield with his legs and mobility alone, and his stats are much better than Baker's. Watson is an elite QB, whereas Baker is mid-tier at best with occasional glimpses of stellar play. I highlighted many of the big differences below.

Watson Passing

Watson Rushing and Receiving

 

Mayfield Passing

Mayfield Rushing and Receiving

 

I'm just going to say that we have 2 of the top 5 runningbacks in the NFL, we are a run first built offense. Why do people think that Baker should have almost 5000 yards? He was amazing at play action and accurate as hell when healthy. We play in some of the nastiest weather in the NFL and feature 2 bell cow runningbacks... 

[nickers]

10 hours ago, Riffer X said:

People should stop being so shortsighted about Watson and look at this as an investment. He may very well be our QB for the next 10 years, so whatever BS suspension he gets to start this season off will end up just being a blip on the radar in the big picture. Brissett is a solid QB as well, I went back and watched four of his starts last year and he should flourish in this offense. 

This isn't an investment... it's a COLOSSAL fuck up!

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Did you see OBJ's dad's video?   I can't tell you how many times I saw Baker come off of Njoku crossing over the short middle, open, so he could try and throw longer to someone who wasn't open.  Or how 'bout the time he had Felton, just standing 2 yards past the sticks, wide open...and looked right at him....only to decide to try and run it himself, and of course not make it so we had to punt?

Baker wanted things to be about him.  Which is probably why he wouldn't look to get the ball to OBJ because then the media (and OBJ) would make it about OBJ.   

Look, Baker can be a pretty decent QB.  He's the best we've had since our return.  But as ballpeen put it, the 'bar' was set pretty low by the previous QB's.  I mean Kelly Holcome took us to the playoffs too.  And truth be told, Holcome gets the playoff victory against the Steelers if Dennis Northcutt doesn't drop the easiest game winning first down pass in the history of the league.   

Fuck Blow Me Gay and his dad...

[ballpeen]

18 hours ago, nickers said:

He really wasn't given a chance to be great.. The Browns got over zealous and football greedy... Watson will have ZERO impact on this team... Just watch,,, Nothing will be better because the 3 assholes running this show still run the team and Kirk Cousins didnt exactly set the world on fire with Shitpantskis tuteledge....In fact their offense got better when Kevvy left..... Watson is FOOLS GOLD... He will be lucky to to lead this team to a bowl of dawg scraps let alone a SB... This team will not sniff the playoffs this year... I predict Shitpantski will get shit canned and replaced by Eric Bienemy.. And the Clowns will be scratching their heads trying to dump DeWeirdos contract... I totally HATE this move... The Browns are stupid ass C L O W N S!

I get that you don't like the Watson move, and understand why.  That still doesn't make Baker a better QB then he was.  Watson is a big upgrade over Baker purely from a football standpoint.  I think it is fair to say that if Watson didn't have the other baggage, few would be down on the move.

 

I think Baker was given opportunity.  I do think there was a divide on how Baker and Stefanski viewed the QB position.

[ballpeen]

15 hours ago, Riffer X said:

Well, that's your opinion. I mean, why root for the team if you think they have no shot at a Super Bowl? To each their own. 

When in the last 23 years have the browns had a shot to win a Super Bowl?  You have been a fan thus far.  When you get down to it, the browns have probably only had 5-6 legit shots at being a team that could have made the Super Bowl since the Super bowl became the game....what was that, 1967?