Baker to Carolina

[lodilobo]

13 hours ago, Orion said:

Umm...just to be clear...Mayfield was the starting QB, and a #1 overall pick to boot.  If the MEDICAL TEAM says he's cleared to play...and the player says he's ok to play...and he practices during the week...and you, as the HC, sit him and play the backup...then....what are you gonna give as a reason?   The backup is the better QB?  Remember, you can't say that it's because he's hurt...because he's been medically cleared to play.

If you want clarity...a back up qb is in place to fill in for the starting qb if he can't play due to injury or some other valid reason. I could argue that Mayfield should have been removed from the active roster immediately after the shoulder injury. Every NFL player who is worth anything will deny the severity of his injury, so he isn't benched. No matter how anti - Mayfield you are, unless you're blind, you could see that he was affected by the injury. I refuse to believe that Stefanski was the only one involved in making the decision to continue to play Mayfield, knowing that his play was impaired. He may have been cleared by the medical staff to the extent that he couldn't further damage his shoulder, if he played...probably because they already knew that it would require surgery and extensive rehab, so he would be lost for the season. No...the back up qb was not a better qb, but any real HC would have been able to see that Mayfield struggled beyond the 2nd quarter. He didn't just go from being one of the most accurate deep ball passers, to not being able to get the ball to an open receiver for no reason. I'm not referring to OBJ, here. He, obviously had an agenda to get out of Cleveland before he got here. As I stated before...I would love to see a video of plays that Mayfield delivered to OBJ, in his hands, and were dropped. There were many more of those that I remember, than bad throws to him by Mayfield. 

[Orion]

19 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

If you want clarity...a back up qb is in place to fill in for the starting qb if he can't play due to injury or some other valid reason. I could argue that Mayfield should have been removed from the active roster immediately after the shoulder injury. Every NFL player who is worth anything will deny the severity of his injury, so he isn't benched. No matter how anti - Mayfield you are, unless you're blind, you could see that he was affected by the injury. I refuse to believe that Stefanski was the only one involved in making the decision to continue to play Mayfield, knowing that his play was impaired. He may have been cleared by the medical staff to the extent that he couldn't further damage his shoulder, if he played...probably because they already knew that it would require surgery and extensive rehab, so he would be lost for the season. No...the back up qb was not a better qb, but any real HC would have been able to see that Mayfield struggled beyond the 2nd quarter. He didn't just go from being one of the most accurate deep ball passers, to not being able to get the ball to an open receiver for no reason. I'm not referring to OBJ, here. He, obviously had an agenda to get out of Cleveland before he got here. As I stated before...I would love to see a video of plays that Mayfield delivered to OBJ, in his hands, and were dropped. There were many more of those that I remember, than bad throws to him by Mayfield. 

I will repeat one more time for the hard of hearing, HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL.  And participated in practices.

[FY56]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

If you want clarity...a back up qb is in place to fill in for the starting qb if he can't play due to injury or some other valid reason. I could argue that Mayfield should have been removed from the active roster immediately after the shoulder injury. Every NFL player who is worth anything will deny the severity of his injury, so he isn't benched. No matter how anti - Mayfield you are, unless you're blind, you could see that he was affected by the injury. I refuse to believe that Stefanski was the only one involved in making the decision to continue to play Mayfield, knowing that his play was impaired. He may have been cleared by the medical staff to the extent that he couldn't further damage his shoulder, if he played...probably because they already knew that it would require surgery and extensive rehab, so he would be lost for the season. No...the back up qb was not a better qb, but any real HC would have been able to see that Mayfield struggled beyond the 2nd quarter. He didn't just go from being one of the most accurate deep ball passers, to not being able to get the ball to an open receiver for no reason. I'm not referring to OBJ, here. He, obviously had an agenda to get out of Cleveland before he got here. As I stated before...I would love to see a video of plays that Mayfield delivered to OBJ, in his hands, and were dropped. There were many more of those that I remember, than bad throws to him by Mayfield. 

His injury as an excuse for his lack of effectiveness was overblown. There have been many QB that have played hurt.

If he can practice, then he can play. 

You play the guy who gives you the best chance of winning

[TexasAg1969]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Stephanski went 2-0 with the backup QB Case Keenum starting.

A swing and a miss. 

Perhaps you can find a four year old article to further make your point. 

Ah, please no facts allowed to muddy up anyone's thinking. Not the cal way.😁

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

I will repeat one more time for the hard of hearing, HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL.  And participated in practices.

 and, AGAIN, "medically cleared" does NOT mean "should play and be effective".

So, if a qb wrecks his motorcycle, loses his leg, recovers, and is "medically cleared" to play football, and participates in practices.... you think he can hop around on one leg and it's ok? Not play the perfectly healthy backup qb?

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, FY56 said:

His injury as an excuse for his lack of effectiveness was overblown. There have been many QB that have played hurt.

If he can practice, then he can play. 

You play the guy who gives you the best chance of winning.  ✔️ 

"Coach's decision."     it's always been up to the head coach, assistants, medical staff to determine who is fit and ready to play and give the team the best chance to win on Sunday (or other). 

"Day to day"   "Game time decision ".  Its not really all that complicated. 

Its always been that way since the beginning of time when Moses was the coach.

 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 and, AGAIN, "medically cleared" does NOT mean "should play and be effective".

What were his medical limitations then?  He shouldn't throw the ball with his left arm?  Not an issue right?   That he shouldn't be attempting to make tackles with his injury?  Was he not able to move in the pocket?  Was it that he couldn't throw long?  Medium?  Short?  To the left?  To the right?  What?  Because I saw him do all of those things, all season long.  And his throwing motion, follow through, etc. didn't look any different.  He wasn't grabbing his shoulder after throwing the ball.

Now, if you're saying that he just wasn't playing like a good QB, then, problem solved.  He's gone.  And we got a better one.  Supposedly.  

[D Bone]

https://sports.yahoo.com/carolina-panthers-unveil-black-helmets-131546381.html

[calfoxwc]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-baker-mayfield-can-earn-back-the-2435-million-in-salary-he-gave-up-to-facilitate-panthers-trade/ar-AAZLaoh

 

How Baker Mayfield can earn back the $3.5 million in salary he gave up to facilitate Panthers trade

Tyler Sullivan - 46m ago

 

[Dutch Oven]

10 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

 and, AGAIN, "medically cleared" does NOT mean "should play and be effective".

So, if a qb wrecks his motorcycle, loses his leg, recovers, and is "medically cleared" to play football, and participates in practices.... you think he can hop around on one leg and it's ok? Not play the perfectly healthy backup qb?

Liat all the one-legged quarterbacks that have made a start in NFL history. 

We will all wait. 

[TexasAg1969]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Liat all the one-legged quarterbacks that have made a start in NFL history. 

We will all wait. 

Did  "Hopalong" Cassady ever play QB for the Lions as a backup? Sounds one-legged to me. 😂

[FY56]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:29 AM, calfoxwc said:

 and, AGAIN, "medically cleared" does NOT mean "should play and be effective".

So, if a qb wrecks his motorcycle, loses his leg, recovers, and is "medically cleared" to play football, and participates in practices.... you think he can hop around on one leg and it's ok? Not play the perfectly healthy backup qb?

No because it would never come to that.

He would be rendered unable to play and out of football the moment he lost his leg.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, FY56 said:

No because it would never come to that.

He would be rendered unable to play and out of football the moment he lost his leg.

Sure, but the exaggeration just shows the pro-watson rationalization.....

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Sure, but the exaggeration just shows the pro-watson rationalization.....

Please explain.

[D Bone]

Just one leg? Pussy.  

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Please explain.

You are a glutton. 😆

[TexasAg1969]

45 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You are a glutton with a fishy hook. 😆

FIFY😁

[SdBacker80]

this is interesting and this play was beaten to death with review in this forum
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/anthony-schwartz-believes-shouldn-t-150322435.html

[tiamat63]

26 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

this is interesting and this play was beaten to death with review in this forum
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/anthony-schwartz-believes-shouldn-t-150322435.html

Hmm... how odd.

[mjp28]

54 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

this is interesting and this play was beaten to death with review in this forum
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/anthony-schwartz-believes-shouldn-t-150322435.html

And yet Mayfield is going to Carolina ?   Really ?

Mike Florio, July 25, 2022......

The promising Cleveland career of former Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield imploded in Week Two of the 2021 season, when Mayfield injured his non-throwing shoulder while making a tackle after throwing an interception.

For some reason, then-rookie receiver Anthony Schwartz shouldered the blame for the shoulder injury. Schwartz recently addressed the situation in comments to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.......continued........

.......Cabot makes a couple of references in her article to the “Baker Bros,” fans of Mayfield who loudly believe he can do no wrong. That’s all the more reason for Mayfield to have provided some cover for Schwartz. And it perhaps help explain the conspicuous silence from other Browns players once it seemed clear that the Browns were looking to move on from Mayfield..  EOM.

And the plot thickens....I guess.....in the removal of Mayfield from Cleveland.   (sure  )

[syd]

On 7/15/2022 at 12:51 PM, nickers said:

I get that.. I'm just saying... Theres a bunch of Numbskulls printing SB tickets and this POS hasn't taken one snap for us... Ya know.. It's cool to be enthusiastic and all..  I just wish people would temper that with some plain ol' common sense...

 

he will never see this, so what common sense do you have you dumbass are you saying the rest of the team is garbage or has baker been so deep in your ass that you cant think straight 

[Flugel]

On 7/19/2022 at 7:18 AM, Orion said:

I will repeat one more time for the hard of hearing, HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL.  And participated in practices.

While I GET what you're saying - is practice anything like an NFL game for the QB position?  I'll clarify.  In practice all week - they don't tickle, tackle or SLAM the QB on the turf.  In games, QBs often get hit, tackled and driven into the ground.  If they have an injury on either shoulder, that's going to aggravate the injury immediately.  

Of course Baker is going to say he feels fine under those practice conditions all week.  He's probably going to look a lot less antsy in the pocket and get through his reads far more efficiently. FWIW, usually the 1st Offense goes against 2nd/scout team Defense in practice..  This is nothing like game day. Therefore, when the HC or whoever addresses the media says he had a good week of practice with very little pain - the medical staff has enough to clear him regarding that.  Can he play vrs should he play - probably involved the guy paying everyone's salary and the FO.

[mjp28]

True.   There is so much more than just being medically cleared to play  NFL football. There is the mentally ready and other coaches issues like playbook time, time with the first team, readiness and quality of the QB2 to play and win.

Who gives the team the best chance to win plays.

----------   🏈   ----------

A friend of mine who lived on our street had tryouts with both the Steelers and Browns he was a first team All Ohio DE and played in the BIG TEN before getting injured.   At Purdue he was 6' 6"  275+  as a freshman  -but-  he told me everyone there was an All something particularly on the first team.

In the professional tryouts he said how hard it was and those guys were serious about everything.  He eventually washed out on both, got a job in Texas.   Even in tryout football camps those guys generally undrafted players or cut guys trying to catch on somewhere they hit hard  just trying to get one of the few spots left. 

AND I visited him in Houston in 1981, he was a friend of Cliff Stout and when Pittsburgh was in town they'd go out for a meal and drinks......Bradshaw started every game.  True fact Stout qualified for his NFL carrying a clipboard backing up #12.   

With his cowboy boots and hat and Oilers jersey a lot of locals (especially the girls) thought he was a player especially when he was out with the players. He was almost 6' 7" and near 300 lbs, whoa and we played backyard football with this guy.     I got to learn a lot about the NFL life and even the reginal college football teams there.

Oh in our wedding he flew up from Houston the biggest tux we could get was a 46" 3x length for him.  That was 40 years ago...wow.   Friendships, football and life in the blink of an eye.

[Orion]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Can he play vrs should he play - probably involved the guy paying everyone's salary and the FO.

Well, from what we know of Jimmuh, that very well could be.  But I watched the games.  I'm betting you did too.  And it didn't look like he was hurting while playing the game and making the throws.  As the game-day coach, I wouldn't have taken him out based on watching him perform.  Now, the end result of his passing stats may have warranted someone to say that he should be removed...but that wouldn't be based on an injury.  That would be based on having a backup that you think is better than the starter. 

...and no, teams don't practice smashing their starting QB's to the ground during preparation for the next game. 

[Flugel]

54 minutes ago, Orion said:

Well, from what we know of Jimmuh, that very well could be.  But I watched the games.  I'm betting you did too.  And it didn't look like he was hurting while playing the game and making the throws.  As the game-day coach, I wouldn't have taken him out based on watching him perform.  Now, the end result of his passing stats may have warranted someone to say that he should be removed...but that wouldn't be based on an injury.  That would be based on having a backup that you think is better than the starter. 

...and no, teams don't practice smashing their starting QB's to the ground during preparation for the next game. 

Fair enough. I just didn't see the same guy that threw 26 TD passes to only 8 INTs in 2020.  I mean he threw 4 INTs just on Christmas Day in 2021 (half of the season total the previous year).  I think some games he wasn't in a lot of pain (like you alluded to); and some games he was (depending on how often he was getting hit/planted).

 

[Orion]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

it didn't look like he was hurting while playing the game and making the throws.

Redefine:  That's not to say that he wasn't actually feeling some level of discomfort.  Just sayin' that he looked, to me, like himself throwing the ball.  

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, Orion said:

Redefine:  That's not to say that he wasn't actually feeling some level of discomfort.  Just sayin' that he looked, to me, like himself throwing the ball.  

Here's an important take from former GB and Seattle QB Matt Hasselbeck that had a very similar injury.

 

[calfoxwc]

5 hours ago, Flugel said:

Here's an important take from former GB and Seattle QB Matt Hasselbeck that had a very similar injury.

 

Coming from Hasselbeck, that means serious legit reasoning from experience. I just think berry and steph. put Baker out there, and it blew up in their faces, so they dumped on Baker. went on a dumpster dive, and, I believe they will regret it in the future.

[nickers]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:23 AM, Flugel said:

Here's an important take from former GB and Seattle QB Matt Hasselbeck that had a very similar injury.

 

I saw this take a few months back and totally agree with him... Who better than someone who had the injury with NFL experience... Matt and Tim Hasslebeck were good , serviceable QB's.. Not elite by any means... But good enough to win and manage games... But I still blame Shitpantski for not sitting Baker and starting Keenum...

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

I saw this take a few months back and totally agree with him... Who better than someone who had the injury with NFL experience... Matt and Tim Hasslebeck were good , serviceable QB's.. Not elite by any means... But good enough to win and manage games... But I still blame Shitpantski for not sitting Baker and starting Keenum...

FWIW Nicks, Matt Hasslebeck led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl vrs Pittsburgh.  That was one of the worst officiated Super Bowls I have ever seen. 

Unfortunately, the network got their their dreamy story book ending with Jerome Bettis ending his career and riding off into the Detroit sunset with a Super Bowl Championship just a few blocks away from his parents' house (that he grew up in).