2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

Having good scouting doesn't mean you will get good players.

 

In the end I think all the teams work pretty much with the same intel. How they pick is a different matter.  My comment was directed more towards scouting and  being aware of various players as was mentioned when talking about the combine snubbed players.

 

I don't think Berry has done all that badly in selecting players. I am of the opinion that if you get 1-2 good players a draft you are doing a decent job.

 

I do think we are stronger at evaluating some positions over others, but if we really looked at other teams and their selected players, I don't think the Browns lag all that far behind.

 

 

Fair enough.  I'm just getting impatient; and this is an important draft in the sense we don't have a lot of cap room to keep up the mentality we can just keep solving things with FAs that have proven themselves on other NFL rosters first.  Drafting better than we have, would set up a healthier cap in the future and get us to the playoffs far more frequently than we have done so IMO.

[ballpeen]

I agree.  It is very important for all you mention.  That is why I mentioned somewhere that I wouldn't mind if we made some "safe' picks, so to speak.  Center would be one of those picks.  I don't think it is that hard to identify and select a serviceable center in the mid rounds.  Harris, if you are sold on that guy is entering the final year of his deal.  It will cost to extend him, and we aren't signing Pocic for cap reasons, so we need to draft a guy to take over, if not immediately, the following year.

[TexasAg1969]

When all is said and done it reverts back to BPA year over after year. What has been accomplished with glamour picks and need picks the last 10 years? Only one I recall also just happened to be BPA and that was Garrett. Any others anyone recalls?

[mjp28]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:42 AM, Flugel said:

 

It's been great seeing you back in the mix this frequently again because you post a lot of good stuff and challenge a lot of comments that lead to good discussions Peens. That said, we have what covered?  The Browns are a 7-10 football team that didn't have very many productive starters drafted by Andrew Berry on the offensive or defensive lines.  Who is the most criticized starter on the offensive line?  The 10th overall pick from 2020 who has one of the best Offensive Line coaches in the league today.  If he doesn't pan out - are we going to fire another Coach for how badly this FO is drafting?  

Getting the information for the draft and using the information are 2 different things.  Berry was an All Conference Cornerback at Harvard, which is a good thing.  Looking at what he's done best with in the draft is the Cornerback position the last 2 drafts.  There's his comfort zone IMO.  He needs to step it up everywhere else; and I'm hoping he does.  We've had a lot of really passionate fans that passed away in recent years waiting for this FO to get their shit together.  

In a world that says you are what your record says you are, the Browns are in last place because the draft has said so.

 

......  " Getting the information for the draft and using the information are 2 different things.  Berry was an All Conference Cornerback at Harvard, which is a good thing.  Looking at what he's done best with in the draft is the Cornerback position the last 2 drafts.  There's his comfort zone IMO.  He needs to step it up everywhere else; and I'm hoping he does.  We've had a lot of really passionate fans that passed away in recent years waiting for this FO to get their shit together.  

In a world that says you are what your record says you are, the Browns are in last place because the draft has said so."  ......

Interesting point of view in a  "Bill Parcells way"  same with the Harvard comment can he carry that through more in his results. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by mjp28

[ballpeen]

No doubt using the information is key.

 

I also think you sometimes just get lucky with players, and there is no accounting for that. Was our information so good we selected DPJ, or did we just get lucky in selecting him?  Obviously a little of both.

 

I think we try to manufacture players.  An example would be along the D line.  The model we use is Aaron Donald.  We can look for all of Donalds traits, but in the end you aren't going to get Aaron Donald, you end up with Tommy Togiai.  I just used him as an example.  I don't know how close any of their traits might be, my point is it is impossible to measure heart and desire.  

 

Always has been, always will be.  Add in that being a task master coach doesn't work with modern players and it makes it all the much harder.

[ballpeen]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:19 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

When all is said and done it reverts back to BPA year over after year. What has been accomplished with glamour picks and need picks the last 10 years? Only one I recall also just happened to be BPA and that was Garrett. Any others anyone recalls?

I am not going to try to name names and do research, but I agree.

 

In the end you almost always need to go with the best player you can find.  Obviously you aren't going to keep drafting 1st round QB's if you have a good QB,  but needs extend past more than the next season.

You can project needs 3-4 years ahead, so you need to take the best players you can.  

 

That said, in any draft with nearly any pick you end up with a group of players who are similar in ability, so at that point you can direct your attention a bit more towards immediate needs.

 

As an example, we probably don't need a RB this draft, but who knows about next year?  That is why if a good back is available in the right sport, we need to take him.

 

Sometimes the picks don't make any sense to us fans, but we tend to think in the here and now and aren't thinking 2-3 years down the road.  Good GM's are thinking 2-3, maybe even more years down the road.

 

When the window is open you try to take advantage, but when it starts to close, you want it to close some, not just slam shut.

 

FA is for fixing immediate needs.  The draft is for the long term health of the team.

 

I don't know if any of you play chess.  It has been a long time hobby of mine.  Good players are thinking 5-6 moves ahead.  If you find yourself in  the position of making the immediate fix to block some attack on your queen or king, and you are stuck in that position time after time, you might as well turn over your king, you are going to lose a slow painful death.  It was all planned 10 moves in the past.

[TexasAg1969]

18 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I am not going to try to name names and do research, but I agree.

 

In the end you almost always need to go with the best player you can find.  Obviously you aren't going to keep drafting 1st round QB's if you have a good QB,  but needs extend past more than the next season.

You can project needs 3-4 years ahead, so you need to take the best players you can.  

 

That said, in any draft with nearly any pick you end up with a group of players who are similar in ability, so at that point you can direct your attention a bit more towards immediate needs.

 

As an example, we probably don't need a RB this draft, but who knows about next year?  That is why if a good back is available in the right sport, we need to take him.

 

Sometimes the picks don't make any sense to us fans, but we tend to think in the here and now and aren't thinking 2-3 years down the road.  Good GM's are thinking 2-3, maybe even more years down the road.

 

When the window is open you try to take advantage, but when it starts to close, you want it to close some, not just slam shut.

 

FA is for fixing immediate needs.  The draft is for the long term health of the team.

 

I don't know if any of you play chess.  It has been a long time hobby of mine.  Good players are thinking 5-6 moves ahead.  If you find yourself in  the position of making the immediate fix to block some attack on your queen or king, and you are stuck in that position time after time, you might as well turn over your king, you are going to lose a slow painful death.  It was all planned 10 moves in the past.

Browns play checkers settling for the occasional hit or miss King while the chess players sacrifice a queen to build up massive pawn structure properly to develop a real team. I still wonder about whether giving up all those draft choices is really going to just keep the Browns/Clowns or a decent team. Hence one of my favorite Bobby Fisher games. 🤗 

 

[Flugel]

9 hours ago, mjp28 said:

......  " Getting the information for the draft and using the information are 2 different things.  Berry was an All Conference Cornerback at Harvard, which is a good thing.  Looking at what he's done best with in the draft is the Cornerback position the last 2 drafts.  There's his comfort zone IMO.  He needs to step it up everywhere else; and I'm hoping he does.  We've had a lot of really passionate fans that passed away in recent years waiting for this FO to get their shit together.  

In a world that says you are what your record says you are, the Browns are in last place because the draft has said so."  ......

Interesting point of view in a  "Bill Parcells  way"  same with the Harvard comment can he carry that through more in his results. 

Dom gummit, you even spelled Parcells right.  I look like Dumb Ass using his name and spelling it wrong.

Edited February 26, 2023 by mjp28

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I am not going to try to name names and do research, but I agree.

 

In the end you almost always need to go with the best player you can find.  Obviously you aren't going to keep drafting 1st round QB's if you have a good QB,  but needs extend past more than the next season.

You can project needs 3-4 years ahead, so you need to take the best players you can.  

 

That said, in any draft with nearly any pick you end up with a group of players who are similar in ability, so at that point you can direct your attention a bit more towards immediate needs.

 

As an example, we probably don't need a RB this draft, but who knows about next year?  That is why if a good back is available in the right sport, we need to take him.

 

Sometimes the picks don't make any sense to us fans, but we tend to think in the here and now and aren't thinking 2-3 years down the road.  Good GM's are thinking 2-3, maybe even more years down the road.

 

When the window is open you try to take advantage, but when it starts to close, you want it to close some, not just slam shut.

 

FA is for fixing immediate needs.  The draft is for the long term health of the team.

 

I don't know if any of you play chess.  It has been a long time hobby of mine.  Good players are thinking 5-6 moves ahead.  If you find yourself in  the position of making the immediate fix to block some attack on your queen or king, and you are stuck in that position time after time, you might as well turn over your king, you are going to lose a slow painful death.  It was all planned 10 moves in the past.

Good points!   This draft might be lining up DT/IDL need with BPA in round 2.  The urgency for to draft QBs, LTs, Edge Rushers, WRs, DBs tend to push talented DTs and RBs into round 2 and 3.  That wouldn't suck.  The important question needed to be answered here - is the FO and scouting dept good at drafting DTs?  Remains to be seen heading into their 4th draft.  

[ballpeen]

58 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Good points!   This draft might be lining up DT/IDL need with BPA in round 2.  The urgency for to draft QBs, LTs, Edge Rushers, WRs, DBs tend to push talented DTs and RBs into round 2 and 3.  That wouldn't suck.  The important question needed to be answered here - is the FO and scouting dept good at drafting DTs?  Remains to be seen heading into their 4th draft.  

 

58 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Good points!   This draft might be lining up DT/IDL need with BPA in round 2.  The urgency for to draft QBs, LTs, Edge Rushers, WRs, DBs tend to push talented DTs and RBs into round 2 and 3.  That wouldn't suck.  The important question needed to be answered here - is the FO and scouting dept good at drafting DTs?  Remains to be seen heading into their 4th draft.  

Not only that, are rookie DT's able to make as much of an impact as we might want or would we be better off from a needs standpoint to look for a FA DT?

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

 

Not only that, are rookie DT's able to make as much of an impact as we might want or would we be better off from a needs standpoint to look for a FA DT?

Based on the types of DTs Berry has drafted, it might not be a bad idea.  However, the problem with counting on too many veteran players drafted by other teams is they have a much higher cost against the cap.  Before the NFL just increased the salary cap, the Browns were one of the teams with the least amount to spend.  Not a good thing if you're only 7-10 counting on that.  

[gumby73]

Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)

Green - Ideal Fit

Yellow - Okay Fit

Red - Unlikely Fit

Grey - No Age Data Available

I wouldn't even count out trading a multi rounded (4th/5th) Browns pick..to trade for a player with some upside (did with rams to get Troy Hill)

A possible positions chart we may target.. Deaton might be that backup C or G ?

way to early, and 

GRANT SR., JAKEEM U/Chi   has a accepted a new deal

 

ENJOY your Combine viewing ! 👀  starts today 3:00 pm

 

[TexasAg1969]

2023 Combine schedule: https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-scouting-combine-dates-times-location-how-to-watch-and-more

NFL Network will have more than 50 hours of live coverage of the this year's event, beginning March 2. Here's the day-by-day schedule:

• March 2 (3 p.m. to 8 p.m. ET): DL, LB
• March 3 (3 p.m. to 8 p.m. ET): DB, PK/ST
• March 4 (1 p.m. to 8 p.m. ET): QB, WR, TE
• March 5 (1 p.m. to 7 p.m. ET): OL, RB
•  
• Of interest to me is how well RB Devon Achane does since he has run a 100m less than half a second off the world record. If he's around for the 3rd he'd be an interesting pick should we let any RBs go during FA. However if he kills the combine, he'll be long gone before the 3rd just based on that and what he did to LSU alone after coming back from 2 1/2 games off due to injury. 218 yds and two TDs.

[tiamat63]

We'll be on and taking a long look between 2021 and 2022 at Texas IDL Keondre Coburn, should anyone wish to follow along on The Browns Board discord channel.    

 

 

[SdBacker80]

On 2/27/2023 at 3:12 AM, gumby73 said:

Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)

Green - Ideal Fit

Yellow - Okay Fit

Red - Unlikely Fit

Grey - No Age Data Available

I wouldn't even count out trading a multi rounded (4th/5th) Browns pick..to trade for a player with some upside (did with rams to get Troy Hill)

A possible positions chart we may target.. Deaton might be that backup C or G ?

way to early, and 

GRANT SR., JAKEEM U/Chi   has a accepted a new deal

 

ENJOY your Combine viewing ! 👀  starts today 3:00 pm

 

looks like a deep draft.  

Jherzson Newton DT Illinois.  Don’t see him on the list he’s worth a look.

Keaton Mitchell or Mo Ibrahim RB I’d snag either if they are there in the 6th. 
 

Rakim Jarrett WR 

Edit: Newton is back in School- keep an eye on him on 2024.

[TexasAg1969]

So could he help the Browns as a 3rd rounder (and yes he has hands out of the backfield or in the slot too)?  "He's got world class speed!" And yes it was the turning point in a come from way behind 41-38 win on a FG as time expired.

 

[mjp28]

Yahoo Sports  -  March 1,  2023 

Arrest warrant No. 1 NFL potential pick. Jalen Carter

An arrest warrant has been issued for potential No. 1 NFL draft pick Jalen Carter for his alleged role in a January traffic crash that killed a teammate and a recruiting staffer for the University of Georgia.

The Georgia defensive lineman is wanted on a charge of reckless driving and racing by the Athens-Clarke County Police Department after an investigation found that Carter was allegedly street racing with Chandler LeCroy on Jan. 15. Both LeCroy, a Georgia staffer, and Georgia offensive lineman Devin Willock were killed when the Ford Expedition LeCroy was driving left the road at a high rate of speed and hit two telephone poles. Two other occupants of LeCroy’s vehicle were injured.

From the Athens-Clarke County Police:

“The investigation found that Chandler LeCroy, driver of the 2021 Ford Expedition and Jalen Carter, driver of a 2021 Jeep Trackhawk, were operating their vehicles in a manner consistent with racing shortly after leaving the downtown Athens area at about 2:30 a.m. The evidence demonstrated that both vehicles switched between lanes, drove in the center turn lane, drove in opposite lanes of travel, overtook other motorists and drove at high rates of speed in an apparent attempt to outdistance each other. Evidence indicated that shortly before the crash the Expedition was traveling at about 104 miles per hour. The toxicology report indicated that Leroy’s blood alcohol concentration was .197 at the time of the crash. Investigators determined that alcohol impairment, racing, reckless driving and speed were significant contributing factors to the crash.”

[tiamat63]

Watching some all-22 from the Eagles defense against the Pats in the Super bowl.   Noticing some themes.

- Similarities in alignment with of the edge players between Woods and Schwartz.  The ends get WIDE.  7 and 9 spots then scream off the edge.

- Base Over calls for the most part - 3tech to TE or called strength.  

 

Biggest Differences - LB size and downhill trigger.  Then I went back 10 years.

Lions - Stephen Tulloch 6'0, 245lbs. 

Bills - Preston Brown 6'1, 250lbs

Eagles - Nigel Bradham (brought over from BUF) 6'2 241lbs

Eagles - Jordan Hicks, 6'1 238lbs. 

 

 This man doesn't abide by small, 210lb backers.  He wants to invite running between the tackles and then meet your invitation with downhill size and aggressiveness from the LB's.    Only starter on the Browns roster that even sniffed 240lbs was Taki.     What are the chances he ends up getting the green dot in the off-season?  If not, I can see the Browns looking at late(r) round LB's.   Although I do see his flexibility with a player like Malcolm Jenkins as a dime backer.  I wonder if Young JOK could ever be disciplined enough in coverage to fill that type of roll?  

 

 Add LB's to the list of positions this team and the front office will be taking long looks at.    Especially consider the starting MIKE backers under Schwartz have all been 3rd round picks or later.   (Only one in the top 75)

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Yahoo Sports  -  March 1,  2023 

Arrest warrant No. 1 NFL potential pick. Jalen Carter

An arrest warrant has been issued for potential No. 1 NFL draft pick Jalen Carter for his alleged role in a January traffic crash that killed a teammate and a recruiting staffer for the University of Georgia.

This is one helluva development for the 2023 NFL Draft. 

 

[mjp28]

9 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Yahoo Sports  -  March 1,  2023 

Arrest warrant No. 1 NFL potential pick. Jalen Carter

An arrest warrant has been issued for potential No. 1 NFL draft pick Jalen Carter for his alleged role in a January traffic crash that killed a teammate and a recruiting staffer for the University of Georgia.

The Georgia defensive lineman is wanted on a charge of reckless driving and racing by the Athens-Clarke County Police Department after an investigation found that Carter was allegedly street racing with Chandler LeCroy on Jan. 15. Both LeCroy, a Georgia staffer, and Georgia offensive lineman Devin Willock were killed when the Ford Expedition LeCroy was driving left the road at a high rate of speed and hit two telephone poles. Two other occupants of LeCroy’s vehicle were injured.

From the Athens-Clarke County Police:

“The investigation found that Chandler LeCroy, driver of the 2021 Ford Expedition and Jalen Carter, driver of a 2021 Jeep Trackhawk, were operating their vehicles in a manner consistent with racing shortly after leaving the downtown Athens area at about 2:30 a.m. The evidence demonstrated that both vehicles switched between lanes, drove in the center turn lane, drove in opposite lanes of travel, overtook other motorists and drove at high rates of speed in an apparent attempt to outdistance each other. Evidence indicated that shortly before the crash the Expedition was traveling at about 104 miles per hour. The toxicology report indicated that Leroy’s blood alcohol concentration was .197 at the time of the crash. Investigators determined that alcohol impairment, racing, reckless driving and speed were significant contributing factors to the crash.”

RIGHT NOW  -   Wednesday pm,  

Right now, it’s unclear exactly if teams knew the arrest warrant was coming this morning, but it does seem to have at least caught the NFL combine a bit off guard. Following the announcement of the arrest warrant against Carter, the podium interviews with the other defensive linemen present in Indianapolis came to a pause and Carter never appeared at his podium session with reporters.

We're still early in the process of figuring out exactly what role Carter played in the crash back in January. But this is the slimier part of the NFL business that viewers should be acutely aware of by now. If a player is talented enough at what they do, sins of the past can be forgotten. On the sliding scale of acts that cause NFL prospects to fall down draft boards, two misdemeanors for a prospect that profiles as a future All-Pro at his position can get ignored fairly easily.

Assuming the police’s accounts of the events are true, then this appears to be a tragic incident that was totally avoidable. That also doesn’t necessarily mean Carter's draft stock will tank.

Have some grace for the young people that lost their lives, but don’t be surprised if Carter still hears his name called early in the 2023 draft proceedings. The NFL is still the NFL.

[gumby73]

22 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

looks like a deep draft.  

Jherzson Newton DT Illinois.  Don’t see him on the list he’s worth a look.

Keaton Mitchell/// RB I’d snag either if they are there in the 6th. 

It should be interesting to see what DT's gets to us.. Rotational & fair depth maybe all that's left? Gotta grab a FA too/imo

I'm part of a group, that can walk to ECU games.. I've seen you mention Keaton Mitchell before..

Key should show some good quick's of another Pirate RB named Chris Johnson at times.. Key's field vision is excellent in a RPO offense.. He's gotta learn.. ball security will get him benched in the NFL.. I'll follow Key wherever he ends up.. big fan !

[gumby73]

12 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Biggest Differences - LB size and downhill trigger.  Then I went back 10 years.

Lions - Stephen Tulloch 6'0, 245lbs. 

 Add LB's to the list of positions this team and the front office will be taking long looks at.    Especially consider the starting MIKE backers under Schwartz have all been 3rd round picks or later.   (Only one in the top 75)

What's your opinion on another former 3rd round pick ?

Possible Lions FA?   Alex Anzalone/age 28 .. I just love the guys motor/effort since with the Saints. more so, Alex may fit our tight cap budget?

He's played some Mike at 6'3" 235-240lbs. is what I've seen.. Is Anzalone a better option than Taki/Walker in your opinion?

thanks..peek back in after work.. (I'm thinking.. Dan Campbell will pound the table to keep his type of craz'ed ball hawk)

EDIT-- Dudes, I'll be on a long tape delay on combine work-outs.. I'm only 4 days into a 2 week material count at work to start a new pay plan 💰(timing sucks).. My Boss/count'ee (prick) is a Egotistical, Power & Control freak...It's not going well, to my hand counts ! I'm turning age 60 the day the Browns go on the clock.. At age 62.. I will retire from these freaks at midnight of my birthday 

Enjoy !  Go Browns ! ( get it right ! )

[TexasAg1969]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

It should be interesting to see what DT's gets to us.. Rotational & fair depth maybe all that's left? Gotta grab a FA too/imo

Well you can watch the draftable DL's on NFL Network this afternoon starting 3pm ET.

[TexasAg1969]

3 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

My Boss/count'ee (prick) is a Egotistical, Power & Control freak...It's not going well, to my hand counts ! I'm turning age 60 the day the Browns go on the clock.. At age 62.. I will retire from these freaks at midnight of my birthday 

Enjoy !  Go Browns ! ( get it right ! )

I had one of those with the plan to retire on my 62nd, but I just could not stand it any longer and had enough time and lots of IRAs set aside so out I went out on my 61st. Best mental health decision I ever made.🤗

 

[tiamat63]

30 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

What's your opinion on another former 3rd round pick ?

Possible Lions FA?   Alex Anzalone/age 28 .. I just love the guys motor/effort since with the Saints. more so, Alex may fit our tight cap budget?

He's played some Mike at 6'3" 235-240lbs. is what I've seen.. Is Anzalone a better option than Taki/Walker in your opinion?

 

Like you said, motor and effort.  He seemed to have (by his standards at least) a pretty good season in Detroit.  

His name, along with a few others like Denzel Perryman, Dylan Cole, and Zach Cunningham are on my free agent watch list.  

[ballpeen]

15 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Watching some all-22 from the Eagles defense against the Pats in the Super bowl.   Noticing some themes.

- Similarities in alignment with of the edge players between Woods and Schwartz.  The ends get WIDE.  7 and 9 spots then scream off the edge.

- Base Over calls for the most part - 3tech to TE or called strength.  

 

Biggest Differences - LB size and downhill trigger.  Then I went back 10 years.

Lions - Stephen Tulloch 6'0, 245lbs. 

Bills - Preston Brown 6'1, 250lbs

Eagles - Nigel Bradham (brought over from BUF) 6'2 241lbs

Eagles - Jordan Hicks, 6'1 238lbs. 

 

 This man doesn't abide by small, 210lb backers.  He wants to invite running between the tackles and then meet your invitation with downhill size and aggressiveness from the LB's.    Only starter on the Browns roster that even sniffed 240lbs was Taki.     What are the chances he ends up getting the green dot in the off-season?  If not, I can see the Browns looking at late(r) round LB's.   Although I do see his flexibility with a player like Malcolm Jenkins as a dime backer.  I wonder if Young JOK could ever be disciplined enough in coverage to fill that type of roll?  

 

 Add LB's to the list of positions this team and the front office will be taking long looks at.    Especially consider the starting MIKE backers under Schwartz have all been 3rd round picks or later.   (Only one in the top 75)

I agree.  I also agree with Tex"s post about drafting a runningback.

 

I am just trying to figure out the strategy we are going to take.  I have a feeling that on D we are probably going to look for a Vet or two.  I am not sure they are going to want to trust the defensive turnaround with 2-3 rookies needing to step in and step up. Rookie runningbacks and receivers can step in and make some impact.  In the past it was the feeling that rookie WR's had a huge learning curve when moving in to the pro's.  I think the college passing game has transformed a great deal over the last 5 or so years and that is no longer the case.

 

That doesn't mean we aren't going to draft any rookie defenders.  I just see it as if it was you can fix one side of the ball or the other, the choice would be the D.  

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I agree.  I also agree with Tex"s post about drafting a runningback.

 

I am just trying to figure out the strategy we are going to take.  I have a feeling that on D we are probably going to look for a Vet or two.  I am not sure they are going to want to trust the defensive turnaround with 2-3 rookies needing to step in and step up. Rookie runningbacks and receivers can step in and make some impact.  In the past it was the feeling that rookie WR's had a huge learning curve when moving in to the pro's.  I think the college passing game has transformed a great deal over the last 5 or so years and that is no longer the case.

 

That doesn't mean we aren't going to draft any rookie defenders.  I just see it as if it was you can fix one side of the ball or the other, the choice would be the D.  

 

 I would be shocked if a couple vets aren't brought in. I fully expect to see just that. 

 We have the makings of another great RB room even without Hunt.  I personally would love to get D'Earnest Johnson inked to a 2 year deal (cheap) and let him serve as the #2.  He's good in the screen game, a willing blocker, and knows this offensive system inside and out.  He would be a 1000 yard back with the opportunity.  As this offense shifts towards a QB centered group, I see no reason to invest draft capital at any point on a position group that is lock-solid for us.  Especially when you consider every pick becomes that much more meaningful without a couple years worth of 1st rounders.    Finding late round DBs you can coach up is the bread and butter of the Patriots for years now, I'd like to see Cleveland try a similar approach by refining their focus on the defensive and offensive lines. 

 

As for receivers, I have a bit of hope for Bell. There are times his game almost reminds me of Robert Meachum (minus the top end speed).  And there were a couple catches that standout to me which highlights his possible role in this offense - the slot fade against ATL where he used his length and strength to just big man the DB;  and then the deep over bullet he caught from Jacoby against... I want to say against Chicago? that showed his football and coverage I.Q. on the route adjustment. 

 I believe he could be a 60ish target, 40-45 catch type WR that hovers around that 600 yard mark but routinely moves chains because of his ability to play all over. 

 Of course, I do have an eye on A.T. Perry out of Wake Forrest though....

[ballpeen]

I agree on Bell.  I haven't given up on him.  He has what too many of our receives haven't had in the past...hands.

He may not be able to create separation with speed, but I think in quick hitting routes he could be tremendous.  I don't think the numbers you post are out of reach.  It could even be higher if Watson decides to throw his way.

 

I know we signed Musgrave, and he is a WCO guy.  I am wondering if we hired him as Sr, asst to bring a little of that look to the O.

 

As for DJ...I love the kid.  I think the problem he faces here is he is too much like Chubb and plays a similar role.  I am not as sold as you on his receiving prowess.  I am not even sure if Ford brings that....maybe he does??  That is why I could see us drafting a back..one who could catch 70 balls a year if used.

[TexasAg1969]

Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.

[tiamat63]

13 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I agree on Bell.  I haven't given up on him.  He has what too many of our receives haven't had in the past...hands.

He may not be able to create separation with speed, but I think in quick hitting routes he could be tremendous.  I don't think the numbers you post are out of reach.  It could even be higher if Watson decides to throw his way.

 

I know we signed Musgrave, and he is a WCO guy.  I am wondering if we hired him as Sr, asst to bring a little of that look to the O.

 

As for DJ...I love the kid.  I think the problem he faces here is he is too much like Chubb and plays a similar role.  I am not as sold as you on his receiving prowess.  I am not even sure if Ford brings that....maybe he does??  That is why I could see us drafting a back..one who could catch 70 balls a year if used.

 

 

- Re: 'WCO'.  The big advent of those timing offenses is generally the 3 and 5 step drop game (well, traditionally speaking) working the shallow, intermediate and horizontal passing stretch.   I'm vocal in my belief that Stefanski is deficient in these designs from time to time.  Granted, in his offense the shots are more vertical in nature, and I get that.   But as we transition to a gun, vertical zone based team, he's going to need someone like Musgrave to help really improve the route combinations that work to build YAC and break man coverage without having to go downfield.  This past seasons Chiefs squad is a good example.  So if Stef was on board and proactive in bringing Musgrave in, it speaks to his self awareness and assessment of the direction the offense needs to take AND improve on.

 As for DJ, I'm not saying the kid is going to line up and run HBC like he's Run CmC is something.  But I do believe everything we throw at Chubb and Hunt in the screen game he is more than capable of also doing himself, that's all.