2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects

[gumby73]

DL/LB day 1, overall's got my attention 👀

Nolan Smith/Owen Pappoe/Byron Young(Tenn.)/Dorian Williams/A.Adebawore/Derick Hall/D. Overshown/Van Ness/Jack Campbell/Bryan Bresee/Keeanu Benton

What the heck do teams do with a freak like Calijah Kancey.. Stud got to 6'1 281 lbs. but is built to play a 3-4 NFL edge.. C. Kancy ain't getting to pick 32.. Teams can forget pick 40 anything..

Happy Friday gents ! Enjoy Day 2

[ballpeen]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:12 AM, gumby73 said:

Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)

Green - Ideal Fit

Yellow - Okay Fit

Red - Unlikely Fit

Grey - No Age Data Available

That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked  from the best player on down no matter the position.  That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.

You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value.  As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example.  If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can  make the best decision possible.  If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position.  If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.

On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.

Whew...I hope that makes some sense.  That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't make any sense.

 

 

[ballpeen]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:12 AM, gumby73 said:

Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)

Green - Ideal Fit

Yellow - Okay Fit

Red - Unlikely Fit

Grey - No Age Data Available

That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked  from the best player on down no matter the position.  That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.

You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value.  As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example.  If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can  make the best decision possible.  If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position.  If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.

On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.

Whew...I hope that makes some sense.  That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't seem to make any sense.

 

 

[ballpeen]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:12 AM, gumby73 said:

Kinda wish Berry would quit his age guardrails way of thinking, when it comes down to deciding on a few draft players.. here's the latest update.. Pre-Combine (Thanks Jack Duffy)

Green - Ideal Fit

Yellow - Okay Fit

Red - Unlikely Fit

Grey - No Age Data Available

That is a good show of a horizontal board where players are stacked by position. Teams also have vertical boards where players are stacked  from the best player on down no matter the position.  That way they can cross check positional value with overall value.

You can't go in to the draft just referencing positional value.  As you can see in this example, there are 26 players with 1st round grades, at least according to this example.  If you are picking 27th, you need to know who's the 27th best player on the vertical list so you can  make the best decision possible.  If the position you really want is rated close enough to that 27th player, then you might draft for position.  If there is a pretty big gap then you probably shouldn't.

On the horizontal list Torrence (G) might be the best guard in the draft but on the vert list he might be the 70th best player.

Whew...I hope that makes some sense.  That is how teams try to balance positional value with overall value when making decisions and explains how teams make picks that sometimes don't seem to make any sense.

 

 

[gumby73]

I get it Peen.. I'd like to talk to the guy in charge of  Of paying a young street FA minimum// vs watching drafted receivers drop balls...

carry on to day 2.. The Tracker    https://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker/live-results/40-yard-dash/all-positions/all-colleges/

DL/LB/DB's*..  40's & 3 cones that still include some Day 1's in top 11.. 4.45's is still moving..Cone's under 7.11's are some loose/not stiff movers either..

Let's see who can out track some DB's, in this wide open WR class 👀 TE's class looks to have some nice depth options too

Enjoy!

[tiamat63]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:42 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Georgia's Edge/LB Nolan Smith is killing the combine with 4.39 40, 1.52 10 yd split, 41.5 vertical, 10'8" broad jump. That 40 was faster than Hopkins, McCaffrey, Barkley and Stephon Diggs. And he may be right there as BPA in the 2nd when the Browns pick. 6'2 1/4" 239 lbs. Former 5***** and top overall HS player in the country like Garrett. His stats at Georgia reflect the massive time sharing that Georgia does in their DL/LB crews.

Hell of an athlete.  Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.  

 A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game.    And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value.    Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.

[Dutch Oven]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/03/cincinnati-receiver-tyler-scott-was-a-die-hard-browns-fan-growing-up-now-he-could-fill-a-key-role-in-the-cleveland-offense-nfl-combine-2023.html

Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need. 

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Hell of an athlete.  Kid put up Ryan Shazier/Micah Parsons numbers.  

 A concern though - when we wasn't being used as an edge rusher, why did the Georgia staff take so long to get him involved as an off-ball LB? Didn't see a single snap until the 5th game.    And just like Von Miller or Micah, at that size, they played a couple different roles to maximize their on-field time and value.    Need to watch more of the 2022 season to see how that might progress, but trying to project a 6'2, 240lb edge in this defense year 1 with little other developed roles is... not easy.

I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.

[tiamat63]

46 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I was pretty much thinking LB kind of role with that kind of athleticism and speed. And like Parsons he can be used to shoot gaps and get to QBs or RBs deep in the backfield. You find a way to use these guys, not plug some mythical spot in a preconceived defensive scheme. Build a scheme around the talent. Find a way to combine him with our other front 7 unique talent in Garrett. But it's a pipe dream. Unless we trade up he's long gone by our first pick in the 2nd. Too many good defensive minds see what he offers.

It's not preconceived or "mythical".  

 At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR.  Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3.   The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level.  Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.  

 Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film.    But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables.  They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.  

 Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo.  Minus the wingspan.  

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo.  Minus the wingspan.  

Oh dog, please not that guy again.

Mingo had a long career as a backup/depth guy/special teams player, and seemed to be a good guy so I'll give him that, but that was not a good pick from the Browns. Wasn't a great draft if I recall either.

Pete Smith, who somehow now writes for SI, was on the message board I was on before this one. That dude looooooooooved Mingo, and no matter how absolutely mediocre he was for the Browns, would have died on the proverbial hill for him. When someone posts a Pete Smith article on here, I chuckle and think about his never-ending love for Bakevious. 😁 

[tiamat63]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/03/cincinnati-receiver-tyler-scott-was-a-die-hard-browns-fan-growing-up-now-he-could-fill-a-key-role-in-the-cleveland-offense-nfl-combine-2023.html

Local kid from Norton grew up as Browns fan, would love to get drafted by Browns, fits a need. 

"A concern of Scott’s game is his drops. According to Pro Football Focus, Scott had a drop rate of 11.3%"

 As much as I love the story of a local kid, that's damn near going to scratch him immediately off my list.  Seen too many receivers with questionable hands come through.  And my cut-off is about that 9% mark, volume dependent.

[Dutch Oven]

Speaking of Browns LBs, it will be interesting to see what they do with the Mike position.

Walker coming back? Takitaki re-signed?

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, tiamat63 said:

"A concern of Scott’s game is his drops. According to Pro Football Focus, Scott had a drop rate of 11.3%"

 As much as I love the story of a local kid, that's damn near going to scratch him immediately off my list.  Seen too many receivers with questionable hands come through.  And my cut-off is about that 9% mark, volume dependent.

I thought that was the WR with the insane drop rate, but when I looked him up a scouting report didn't mention it (what?) so I thought perhaps it was another local kid I was mixing him up with. 

I still like the Penn State kid, though.

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

It's not preconceived or "mythical".  

 At his size, especially if he lacks the playing time, development/skills as an off-ball linebacker (generally making him a liability) that means he's strictly a DPR.  Where he can possibly grow into an expanded role in year 2 and 3.   The problem, is that you're now drafting him almost purely on athletic ability and hoping to install a ground level understanding of another role, while already being at the NFL level.  Generally that doesn't work out, especially when you consider we have another great athlete around 6'1 220ishlbs already playing the WILL backer spot in Young JOK.  

 Opinion subject to change depending on what shows up down the season in film.    But the Von, Shazier and Micah names I dropped weren't JUST for their measurables.  They all played multiple roles in their respective defenses well before making it pro.  

 Right now he would come in and essentially be kiki Mingo.  Minus the wingspan.  

Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.😁

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.😁

That still stings.

[mjp28]

- This one really caught my eye,  from Yahoo Sports March 4.

INDIANAPOLIS — As soon as the height and weight digits trickled down Saturday morning for Alabama quarterback Bryce Young, the predictable avalanche of comparison rumbled in behind it.

Standing 5-feet-10 and 1/8th of an inch tall. Weighing in at 204 pounds. Cue the social media jukebox and set it for replay ...

Just like Kyler Murray, who registered the exact same height at the NFL combine in 2019 and came in only three pounds heavier.

A lazy comparison  ?         

“Absolutely,” an NFC West talent evaluator told Yahoo Sports.

“That was what we expected,” chimed in another evaluator, who spent significant time canvassing both Young and Murray. “We knew [the similarities] even if fans didn’t.”

In a world of NFL Draft study that is seemingly always seeking readily obvious road maps for comparison, Alabama’s Young has long seemed destined to fall into the 2019 “Murray conundrum” — a debate that weighs elite level quarterback talent against the risk of sub-optimal size. It was the burden shouldered by Murray four years ago when the Arizona Cardinals were zeroing in on the former Oklahoma quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick, focusing a portion of their evaluation by mapping him against stature-deficient quarterbacks like now-retired QB Drew Brees and Denver Broncos QB Russell Wilson.   ----- CONTINUED----->

[mjp28]

----->  The end of that road featured Murray being deemed worth the risk of not featuring ideal quarterback size, resulting in his selection with the first pick. Yes, he wasn’t in the league’s quarterback wheelhouse that falls somewhere around 6-foot-4 and 225 pounds. But Murray’s overall skill set was special enough that the Cardinals rolled the dice on him being one of the history-defying outliers.

Now we’re four seasons and a handful of injuries later, and the dice-roll on Murray has been met with mixed reviews. Undoubtedly one of the league’s most dynamic playmakers when he’s performing at his peak, the questions dogging Murray now have been about his leadership and inability to play through seasons without some kind of impactful injury. Despite those continued questions, he landed a 5-year $230.5 million contract extension, cementing his stature as a player who defines the “outlying” class of quarterbacks. And with that, he joins the class of Brees and Wilson when it comes to pressing Bryce Young’s evaluation against historic predecessors.

But as was the case comparing Murray against Brees and Wilson in 2019, evaluators are rolling their eyes at those who are drawing some kind of direct line between Young and Murray.

“Size is the only thing they have in common,” the NFC West evaluator said.

That opinion wasn’t an anomaly, either. Seven evaluators from different teams all expressed some version of the same conclusion: Other than height and weight, Murray and Young have dramatic differences in their game and skill level — including some that favor Murray and others that favor Young. And even when it comes to that size comparison, predicting a similar injury path is tricky at best, because teams don’t view them as being built to handle some of the same rigors, either.

“Height and weight isn’t even an accurate [predictor] if you’re debating how you feel about the potential for an injury,” an NFC general manager said. “Drew [Brees] and Russell [Wilson] next to each other — not to knock Drew, but Russell looks like he can take some hits. Drew looks like he’s in competitive cycling. Now put those two next to Cam Newton in a draft. S***, Cam looked like he could have been a defensive end. And everyone would have been wrong about who was going to be durable between those three. Partly because of how each guy played the position. We can’t ignore that. But that’s going to be a similar thing with Bryce Young and Kyler Murray, too.”

Asked to parse out the differences between Young and Murray if they really aren’t similar players beyond their size, there was a consensus on almost every point. Murray was evaluated as a more elite athlete — with a better throwing arm, better athleticism and a more evasive running style. He also is a player who teams expect believe represented an accurate weight when he came in at 207 pounds in 2019.

“Kyler is more physically gifted across the board,” one AFC general manager said. “Bryce is the more skilled passer and mature person and professional. I think Bryce will be better when he is in the field but I question whether he will hold up from a durability standpoint without elite physical traits to escape. I would bet he didn’t play [at Alabama] at 204. I think he’ll fill in as he gets older later in his career.” ----> continued--->

[gumby73]

One class left.. RB/OL today at 1 PM..

My interest is to settle on a late round RB. Evan Hall vs. Deuce Vaughn vs. my local favorite Keaton Mitchell..

Combining this class of DB/WR/TE.. 10 players fell on the all time Top Performer list 🧐..

Not convinced this is a B overall draft graded year..   stick with mid C / imo  

[Flugel]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:52 AM, gumby73 said:

I get it Peen.. I'd like to talk to the guy in charge of  Of paying a young street FA minimum// vs watching drafted receivers drop balls...

carry on to day 2.. The Tracker    https://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker/live-results/40-yard-dash/all-positions/all-colleges/

DL/LB/DB's*..  40's & 3 cones that still include some Day 1's in top 11.. 4.45's is still moving..Cone's under 7.11's are some loose/not stiff movers either..

Let's see who can out track some DB's, in this wide open WR class 👀 TE's class looks to have some nice depth options too

Enjoy!

No problem Gumbs!  They put the 3rd round straight ahead speedster from Auburn on anti anxiety prescriptions in his 3rd NFL season.  That'll definitely turn a guy that's not a football player into a football player.  Look how easy it has been in this experiment.  All we have to do now is hire a Dr Frankenstein clone to surgically rewire every prospect the Browns reach on.  Who uses film to see if guys can catch or tackle?  The Chiefs. Andy Reid was asked what he thought of being the team that drafted Nick Bolton in round 2.  He said we drafted him because he was the best tackler we saw in the draft.  You don't say Andy!!!!!  Nothing about how fast he is, how agile he is.  Just the best tackler, which often means instinctive enough to be in position to make a tackle (with his head up to guarantee the tackle).    He didn't have to be lighter or more athletic than everyone else or run elite 40s.  He just had to show up on film and be healthy enough to play.  It has to be nice being a fan of a team that uses film.  Drafting guys that can't catch in round 3 or bad tacklers full of bad habits in round 3 can perpetuate the last place finishes here.  

[Flugel]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Well surely then we could find ourselves a Manziel Mayfield III in this draft in a more appropriate round.😁

After we steal the next Anthony Schwartz or next Alex Wright in round 3 of course.  That's how the Browns keep outsmarting everyone right?

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

After we steal the next Anthony Schwartz or next Alex Wright in round 3 of course.  That's how the Browns keep outsmarting everyone right?

Nah, we needed a Coleman but we traded that spot away.🤔

[gumby73]

Somewhat odd ?

What comes next/ is a Teams Pro Day schedule..

 

March 7: Indiana

March 9: Harvard, Nevada, Texas

March 10: Illinois, Rice

March 13: Oregon State, South Carolina, Western Michigan

March 14: Northwestern, Oregon

March 15: Georgia, Louisiana, Mercer, Michigan State, Minnesota, UCLA

March 17: Michigan

March 20: Bowling Green, Iowa, James Madison, Syracuse, Toledo

March 21: Maine, Ohio, Princeton

March 22: Bryant, Ohio State, SMU, Stanford, Temple, UAB, UConn, UTSA, Weber State

March 23: Alabama, Cincinnati, Holy Cross, Stephen F. Austin, Utah, William & Mary, Wisconsin, Yale

March 24: Boston College, Houston, Kentucky, Missouri, Old Dominion, San Jose State

March 27: Boise State, Memphis, Miami, North Carolina, Sam Houston State, West Virginia

March 28: Arkansas State, NC State, Texas A&M, Washington State, Vanderbilt

March 29: Arkansas, Incarnate Word, LSU, Maryland, North Dakota State, North Texas, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss, Pittsburgh, Texas Tech, Washington, Wake Forest, Western Kentucky

March 30: Appalachian State, Oklahoma, TCU

March 31: Florida State, Kansas, Kansas State

April 5: Montana State

@Dutch Oven  I've looked at many schedule sites.. And can't seem to find a Penn State's anywhere.. Maybe clearing WR Parker Washington might have something to do with scheduling a Penn State Pro day ? 

We could use a replacement Jarvis Landry anywhere

 

[gumby73]

to Those interested in WR RAS scores as a group.. 

 

@JADubin5

 

 

 RAS scores.. 10 high to low

@mathbomb  (individual's can be found here) 

for the WRs who did testing yesterday. Seems like a less disappointing group when viewed this way, I think? (Only three below-average RAS scores, most top guys with very high-level production.)

 

 

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

Achane's 40 was 3rd best in the 2023 combine at 4.32 secs. Two CBs had 4.26 and 4.30.

EDIT: That was the 4th fastest RB 40 in the past 20 years of the combine.

[gumby73]

atta ECU Pirate Keaton Mitchell 🔥 

4.38 40.. ranks 3rd, with #1 10 split of 1.48 

Go catch the ball Key !

[gumby73]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

One class left.. RB/OL today at 1 PM..

My interest is to settle on a late round RB. Evan Hall vs. Deuce Vaughn vs. my local favorite Keaton Mitchell..

Waited all week for that.. Can't call it.. Good Stuff !   Hope they see the 5th or after

[TexasAg1969]

19 hours ago, gumby73 said:

atta ECU Pirate Keaton Mitchell 🔥 

4.38 40.. ranks 3rd, with #1 10 split of 1.48 

Go catch the ball Key !

Give you one guess who came in #2 in the 10 yd split at 1.51. A clue can be found above. And what does that tell you? The other one is the long distance home run hitter that few DBs can catch when he breaks through. They may both be right there in the 2nd when we pick, maybe one is BPA. Ya never know.

[ballpeen]

I don't know much about Mitchell.  Will have to check.

 

I really like Achane, but I really doubt we use a 2nd rounder on a back.

 

My feeling is Berry discounts backs a bit.  Most teams do to some degree.  I would love to get the guy if he was there for us in the 3rd, or even try to work a trade to move up to get him if he falls a bit further than 42, and i think he will.

 

He might be near BPA at 42, but that might be on some boards, but not on ours.

 

Also, I saw something in one of the articles that Berry thinks Ford can fill the receiving back role. I think Achanes value will be determined by how many teams think he can play 3 downs.  If most see him as a Sproles type player, then he probably drops to the 3rd or further.  If a team or twelve think he can take the rock on a regular basis and be productive, then he won't make it to 42.

[Flugel]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:35 PM, Dutch Oven said:

I thought that was the WR with the insane drop rate, but when I looked him up a scouting report didn't mention it (what?) so I thought perhaps it was another local kid I was mixing him up with. 

I still like the Penn State kid, though.

Not to put any pressure on you or jinx ya - but you got me intrigued by him too!  The good news about that is if he disappoints - you can blame me.

I usually get 2 draft magazines that are a good guide; but I haven't seen either one yet.  They usually come out right after the Combines without the recently updated 40 times.  Last year, I only found Lindy's Sports Pro Football Draft here in Florida.  They prolly think people in Florida can't read or something judging by head-on collisions on 1 way streets and the "No Cop No Stop" tickets being given right next to those adorable red stop signs.   We can read - honest! 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

I don't know much about Mitchell.  Will have to check.

 

I really like Achane, but I really doubt we use a 2nd rounder on a back.

 

My feeling is Berry discounts backs a bit.  Most teams do to some degree.  I would love to get the guy if he was there for us in the 3rd, or even try to work a trade to move up to get him if he falls a bit further than 42, and i think he will.

 

He might be near BPA at 42, but that might be on some boards, but not on ours.

 

Also, I saw something in one of the articles that Berry thinks Ford can fill the receiving back role. I think Achanes value will be determined by how many teams think he can play 3 downs.  If most see him as a Sproles type player, then he probably drops to the 3rd or further.  If a team or twelve think he can take the rock on a regular basis and be productive, then he won't make it to 42.

Ss Antonio Johnson or Jordan Battle might be there too as BPA and position of need. And I agree on Ford. I like him a lot and think he gets a greater role should we drop or trade a RB.