2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects

[Korsou Dawg]

Not here to hijack anything, aside from those sweet jerseys and jackets @Dutch Ovenposted pictures of 

Just don't see how you discuss the draft in a vacuum, without discussing FA. The free agents we can add to fill needs, will have a significant impact on our ability to draft best player available, or fill other needs. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Not here to hijack anything, aside from those sweet jerseys and jackets @Dutch Ovenposted pictures of 

Just don't see how you discuss the draft in a vacuum, without discussing FA. The free agents we can add to fill needs, will have a significant impact on our ability to draft best player available, or fill other needs. 

True.  However, the Browns are already paying veterans from OTHER NFL teams some big $ against the cap like Deshaun Watson, Jack Conklin (new contract), Wyatt Teller, John Johnson, Anthony Walker, Amari Cooper, Corey Bojorquez, Jakeem Grant, and Jacoby Brissett.   Before the NFL increased the salary cap recently, the Browns were one of the teams that had the least amount of cap space available for spending.  

[gumby73]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:34 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Thanks-and agree on Schwartz. We can't afford a WR with speed that can't run routes or catch a cold. And please no Boutte WR from LSU. He's a carbon copy of Schwartz.

Stick a nail in that cough'fin !

 

Jacob Infante

 

@jacobinfante24

·

Drop rates for top WR prospects in the 2023 NFL Draft:

• Kayshon Boutte: 13.8%  

• Quentin Johnston: 8.5%-- true X WR

• Marvin Mims: 7.9%

• Rashee Rice: 7.8%

• Jalin Hyatt: 6.7%

• Jaxon Smith-Njigba: 4.8% (2021)

• Zay Flowers: 4.4%

• Jordan Addison: 3.1%

• Josh Downs: 2%

5:15 PM · Jan 3, 2023

 

Other WR slot options? Parker Washington/ Jayden Reed/ Tyler Scott 

 

I'm good with Coop & DPJ.. and this draft class has some good slot options to replace Schwartz..

edit-- No football? Man! What a lit hockey party at Carter Finley in Raleigh,NC we attended 🥳 

[Dutch Oven]

22 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Stick a nail in that cough'fin !

 

Jacob Infante

 

@jacobinfante24

·5:15 PM · Jan 3, 2023

 

Other WR slot options? Parker Washington/ Jayden Reed/ Tyler Scott 

 

I'm good with Coop & DPJ.. and this draft class has some good slot options to replace Schwartz..

 

I'm still on-board with Parker Washington, he really impressed me during his game vs Ohio State. 

[gumby73]

Just now, Dutch Oven said:

I'm still on-board with Parker Washington, he really impressed me during his game vs Ohio State. 

Yeah, I like him too..

Reminds me of watching another lion last season, in Johan Dotson in last draft season.. Most thought Dotson was over-drafted when he went Pick #16/but, showed signs of that value at Washington.

WR Parker Washington's combine medicals is something I'm watching..  

Nov 22, 2022 — Penn State receiver Parker Washington sustained an injury that will cause him to miss the remainder of the 2022 football season.

If Washington slides to the mid-rounds? a injury red flag may have something to do with it?

[ballpeen]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Stick a nail in that cough'fin !

 

Jacob Infante

 

@jacobinfante24

·

Drop rates for top WR prospects in the 2023 NFL Draft:

• Kayshon Boutte: 13.8%  

• Quentin Johnston: 8.5%-- true X WR

• Marvin Mims: 7.9%

• Rashee Rice: 7.8%

• Jalin Hyatt: 6.7%

• Jaxon Smith-Njigba: 4.8% (2021)

• Zay Flowers: 4.4%

• Jordan Addison: 3.1%

• Josh Downs: 2%

5:15 PM · Jan 3, 2023

 

Other WR slot options? Parker Washington/ Jayden Reed/ Tyler Scott 

 

I'm good with Coop & DPJ.. and this draft class has some good slot options to replace Schwartz..

edit-- No football? Man! What a lit hockey party at Carter Finley in Raleigh,NC we attended 🥳 

What constitutes a drop?  Does everybody make that call the same way?

 

For that reason I don't put a ton of weight in to stats like that.  No doubt it is something to consider but if using those figures, I wouldn't eliminate Boutte from my list and put Downs at the top as an absolute.

[tiamat63]

@Korsou Dawg Free Agency and the Draft go hand in hand. So you're absolutely right there, and this should be a thread to discuss all of that.

 

Not to bogard this talk either, myself and Flugel are going to be on the Browns Board discord around 1:30p EST to go over film on Jed Wills. If Anybody is interested in joining, all are welcomed as usual.

https://discord.gg/CSwhwRw8

 

Download the discord app ---> install --->create/register user name ---> copy and paste that link I put above.  And you're in.   

 

[gumby73]

What constitutes a drop?  Does everybody make that call the same way?

I doubt some..not Infante on most.. In my film study it's..  any catch-able ball within wingspan of 2 hands on ball.. 

 Concentration drops, late in Josh Downs season kinda shocked me with a drop rating at 2%  

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

 I wouldn't eliminate Boutte from my list and put Downs at the top as an absolute.

see my post on Downs above ^^  a n d....I'm not sold on Mingo nor Boutte having the separation speed to play either outside WR positions... I'm seeing both as better NFL inside slot options than Schwartz..    

[gumby73]

 2022 season/  DL vs The Run Stat Study

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/2023-nfl-draft-prospects-dl-run-defense-stat-study/

 

 

  

[ballpeen]

38 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

 2022 season/  DL vs The Run Stat Study

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/2023-nfl-draft-prospects-dl-run-defense-stat-study/

 

 

  

I think I like it...lots to digest.

[Flugel]

22 hours ago, gumby73 said:

 2022 season/  DL vs The Run Stat Study

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/2023-nfl-draft-prospects-dl-run-defense-stat-study/

 

 

  

Thanks Gumbs!  This is awesome!  Maybe we can get MJP to pin it. for us.

[gumby73]

Thanks Peen & Flug's..

I'm that guy, that will steel good nutz & bolts from any teams writers.. writer Clayton Eckert, joined depot in 2021 around draft season. I've checked his stuff on twitter for some time now.. This was broke down, really well from what I've seen elsewhere.. Pitt. does have pick 2.1 traded from Bears/#50 as well

Stuck watching the ACC.. I was aware of Turner from Wake and Orhorhoro from Clemson.. I've added Matlock & Ojomo to view some games next week.. 

Combine Week starts March 2nd 3pm..  I'll be over here 🤤'g to move up from pick #98   

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

Thanks Gumbs!  This is awesome!  Maybe we can get MJP to pin it. for us.

We can do that I'll be back in here Tuesday. 

[mjp28]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:57 PM, mjp28 said:

We can do that I'll be back in here Tuesday. 

◆  OK pinned the thread  February 21, 2023.  ◆

Edited February 24, 2023 by mjp28

[Dutch Oven]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/02/defensive-line-reinforcements-should-be-a-priority-for-cleveland-even-if-it-means-trading-up-ashley-bastocks-browns-mock-draft-1.html

Here's an interesting Browns mock draft that includes a DTackle I've liked, along with two Ohio State players and a local kid who played in Cincinnati. 

[Flugel]

55 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/02/defensive-line-reinforcements-should-be-a-priority-for-cleveland-even-if-it-means-trading-up-ashley-bastocks-browns-mock-draft-1.html

Here's an interesting Browns mock draft that includes a DTackle I've liked, along with two Ohio State players and a local kid who played in Cincinnati. 

I wouldn't mind that unfolding for the Browns at all.  Seems pretty easy on the scouting dept too if you get 2 guys from Ohio State, 1 from Cincy and 1 from The School Up North.  We'll need to a Safety to take John Johnson's spot too; and this one seems to be a pretty solid tackler (unless I just jinxed him).

[tiamat63]

 Harrison in the 4th seems ok at the moment. Hickman in the 2nd feels a bit off for our needs.  I go back to making mention of having DBs with no contrast to their abilities.  Ronnie wasn't great when tasked with rolling single high, and there were times when he was "meh" at best downfield and back on a hash.  

 He triggers downhill pretty damn well and he was the Bucks most consistent tackler of all our DBs.  But pairing him with Delpit strikes me as a problem by having two starting safeties who both need to improve in the exact same ways. 

[ballpeen]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

I wouldn't mind that unfolding for the Browns at all.  Seems pretty easy on the scouting dept too if you get 2 guys from Ohio State, 1 from Cincy and 1 from The School Up North.  We'll need to a Safety to take John Johnson's spot too; and this one seems to be a pretty solid tackler (unless I just jinxed him).

We assume Johnson is leaving, but i am not so sure.

 

I think a lot of his problems were related to Woods.  I don't understand how a guy can go from one of the better safeties in the league to a guy who was pretty bad once he came to Cleveland.  I didn't see the dreaded lead shoe syndrome.  You remember how Hanford Dixson looked to be Hanford, and then in a week he looked like Paul Zukaskis could beat him in a race.

 

For those who don't remember Zuk, he may have been the biggest clod to ever play for the Browns.  He was ok until he had to move his feet more than a few feet.

[tiamat63]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:57 PM, gumby73 said:

 2022 season/  DL vs The Run Stat Study

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/2023-nfl-draft-prospects-dl-run-defense-stat-study/

 

 

  

 My issue with raw data like this is the same beef I've had with sites like PFF since Corey Coleman - I need context on assignment vs offensive design.  Without it, numbers can be incredibly misleading. 

 Example, if Im playing closed end and spilling, my raw tackle numbers or TFL might look REAL bad compared to another edge not playing the same role. 

Or if I'm getting someone like Benton who is averaging a better negative tackle depth, I want and need to know the why?  Is he doing that from a shade or is he 2 gapping? 2 gapping would lead me to believe he's being a disruptive force well above most college NTs.  If he's playing a shade and putting up average numbers, then I also go into relative competition, game script, scores, etc etc. 

These are nice attempts, first layer metrics at trying to get a handle on production.  But at the end of the day it's still a narrow snapshot of a MUCH larger picture. 

 

[tiamat63]

25 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

We assume Johnson is leaving, but i am not so sure.

 

I think a lot of his problems were related to Woods.  I don't understand how a guy can go from one of the better safeties in the league to a guy who was pretty bad once he came to Cleveland.  

 

 Aaron Donald, Greg Gaines, SJD, Troy Hill, Jalen Ramsey, Jordan Fuller and Leonard Floyd.    Coming from a loaded defense that had him play more limited assignments while Jordan Fuller took over as your MFS. 

 Johnny J is still a pretty good DB and I'd hate to see him go.  But business is business, and at the moment he costs a bit too much.  

 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, ballpeen said:

We assume Johnson is leaving, but i am not so sure.

 

I think a lot of his problems were related to Woods.  I don't understand how a guy can go from one of the better safeties in the league to a guy who was pretty bad once he came to Cleveland.  I didn't see the dreaded lead shoe syndrome.  You remember how Hanford Dixson looked to be Hanford, and then in a week he looked like Paul Zukaskis could beat him in a race.

 

For those who don't remember Zuk, he may have been the biggest clod to ever play for the Browns.  He was ok until he had to move his feet more than a few feet.

This is only my opinion so it doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong.  I don't think there was a person in the fanbase that wasn't excited about him coming here.  Unfortunately, that wasn't the same guy that came here.  I think the FO should get just as much credit as you're giving Woods considering how much their chosen ones on the IDL didn't make life easy on the back tiers of the defense.@tiamat63 gives a good explanation of it all in the previous post.

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Flugel

[ballpeen]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

This is only my opinion so it doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong.  I don't think there was a person in the fanbase that wasn't excited about him coming here.  Unfortunately, that wasn't the same guy that came here.  I think the FO should get just as much credit as you're giving Woods considering how much their chosen ones on the IDL didn't make life easy on the back tiers of the defense.@tiamat63 gives a good explanation of it all in the previous post.

 

I understand, and that may be true.  I just don't see any real physical evidence that would explain the drop in play.

[gumby73]

NFL Combine Snubs  https://withthefirstpick.com/2023/02/09/10-biggest-nfl-combine-snubs-2023/   👀

 

[tiamat63]

Watching Ojomo from Texas and Keondre Coburn is starting to look VERY promising as well.  

Edit:. Watching the Horns almost reminds me of a couple of their dlines from back in the day with Rod Wright, Frank Okam, Tim Crowder and Roy Miller. They've got some big boys up front. 

[gumby73]

Defensive Tackles.. My Pre-Combine hype rankings

1.   Jalen Carter, Georgia  

2 .  Mazi Smith, Michigan

3. Calijah Kancey, Pitt

4. Bryan Bresee, Clemson (medical slide) 

5. Siaki Ika, Baylor

6.  Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin

7.  Byron Young, Alabama

8 Zacch Pickens South Carolina

9  Gervon Dexter  Fla.

10. Toss Up! Still look'in 

 

 

[Flugel]

On 2/22/2023 at 6:02 AM, gumby73 said:

NFL Combine Snubs  https://withthefirstpick.com/2023/02/09/10-biggest-nfl-combine-snubs-2023/   👀

 

Thanks for sharing that Gumbs!  Looks like quite a few promising young men in that group.  That Mafi kid sounds like he'd be an ideal fit for the Bills Mafia.

You know who the biggest draft snub of all time was?  It was actually a guy that got invited.  Poor Orlando Brown at least allegedly.  I had Hoorta all over me because I dared to say just because he can't bench press more than girl scouts or move as fast as parked cars he'll continue to be a damn good football player. Today he's been to a bunch of Pro Bowls at Right and Left Tackle.  Even worse, when I watched Jedrick Wills doing a lot of the drills at the combines - he looked like he had the feet, hips and agility to give us what we needed if interested.  What assessments measured inner chest and football comprehension though?  In his 3rd NFL season, Wills looked like a lost rookie (after what seemed to be a promising rookie season 2 years ago). 

Having said all that, I still enjoy watching Indy's Underwear Olympics in early March every year. Make sense?  It shouldn't. The only assessment I'd change is that guys shouldn't be allowed to run the 40 out of a sprinters stance they won't ever line up in.  This is supposed to evaluate how quick somebody can be on the football field. They SHOULD do a stances and start assessment that goes about 10 or 15 yards. By the end of the day, you'll still know who the quick guys are.  Today, the length of the average play doesn't even last as long as the average combine 40 times.  That said, Anthony Schwartz can run REALLY fast straight ahead especially when there isn't a defense in front of him.

Good news for some of the snubs is they recently held the HBCU Combines.  I hope Andrew Berry sent more than the Broom Closet Coordinator to watch them.  Did anyone hear Andy Reid's comment as to why they drafted Mizzou's Nick Bolton a couple years ago?  Because we wanted a great tackler and the film didn't lie.  Wait a minute!  First, you didn't cate if he preferred kittens or puppies Andy?  Second, you wanted somebody that was great at tackling for your defense?  Third, you used film instead of spread sheets? No wonder why they chased you out of Philly!  What have you done lately? Oh yeah, you BEAT Philly in the Super Bowl.  Coincidentally, Nick Bolton was around the football long enough to scoop the loose ball and score a TD.  You don't say...

 

[ballpeen]

I am sure we have the info on them.   

 

Between our own scouts, and the independent scouting services which we buy info from, we have it covered.

[Flugel]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

Defensive Tackles.. My Pre-Combine hype rankings

1.   Jalen Carter, Georgia  

2 .  Mazi Smith, Michigan

3. Calijah Kancey, Pitt

4. Bryan Bresee, Clemson (medical slide) 

5. Siaki Ika, Baylor

6.  Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin

7.  Byron Young, Alabama

8 Zacch Pickens South Carolina

9  Gervon Dexter  Fla.

10. Toss Up! Still look'in 

 

 

Every time I watched Georgia play, Jalen Carter didn't jump off the screen at me nearly as much as Jordan Davis did last year.  I haven't looked up his stats or anything but I'll bet Vanderbilt volunteered plenty of tackles for losses and sacks.  I know Richard Seymour went to the same football program and had a similar frame; but this guy isn't on that level at all even thought he'll get drafted higher.  The most impressive thing about Seymore was the ideal pad height he consistently was able to out-leverage and over-power offensive linemen with in spite of the height.  Carter didn't show me that.  I will confess I don't waste tine watching many of Georgia's mismatches.  I DID Georgia play the day they were praying Ohio State would miss a potential game winning FG.

[Flugel]

48 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I am sure we have the info on them.   

 

Between our own scouts, and the independent scouting services which we buy info from, we have it covered.

 

It's been great seeing you back in the mix this frequently again because you post a lot of good stuff and challenge a lot of comments that lead to good discussions Peens. That said, we have what covered?  The Browns are a 7-10 football team that didn't have very many productive starters drafted by Andrew Berry on the offensive or defensive lines.  Who is the most criticized starter on the offensive line?  The 10th overall pick from 2020 who has one of the best Offensive Line coaches in the league today.  If he doesn't pan out - are we going to fire another Coach for how badly this FO is drafting?  

Getting the information for the draft and using the information are 2 different things.  Berry was an All Conference Cornerback at Harvard, which is a good thing.  Looking at what he's done best with in the draft is the Cornerback position the last 2 drafts.  There's his comfort zone IMO.  He needs to step it up everywhere else; and I'm hoping he does.  We've had a lot of really passionate fans that passed away in recent years waiting for this FO to get their shit together.  

In a world that says you are what your record says you are, the Browns are in last place because the draft has said so.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flugel

[ballpeen]

Having good scouting doesn't mean you will get good players.

 

In the end I think all the teams work pretty much with the same intel. How they pick is a different matter.  My comment was directed more towards scouting and  being aware of various players as was mentioned when talking about the combine snubbed players.

 

I don't think Berry has done all that badly in selecting players. I am of the opinion that if you get 1-2 good players a draft you are doing a decent job.

 

I do think we are stronger at evaluating some positions over others, but if we really looked at other teams and their selected players, I don't think the Browns lag all that far behind.