Jonathan Paul Manziel

[TexasAg1969]

 

love mariota but i wouldn't want our FO to even think about giving soooo much away to get ONE player when we need like TEN.

 

that's only something you do when everything is set on both sides of the ball except that one piece. the injuries this year have opened a lot of people's eyes to what needs to be done.

 

DL OL DL OL LB WR OL DL and you can spin that anyway you want to.

 

 

Damn mik, you need to turn in your insanity papers. You're making too damn much sense. It's Linemen dammit!

[PoeticG]

Mik- I'm not disrespecting or anything but really, we need ANOTHER DL?

 

Once Phil, Rubin, Bryant, Bryant, Hughes, Winn, and some others come back from injury, 100% we will be in good shape on the DL next year. We can't afford more backup players from 1st round picks.

 

Our LB's are solid. Mingo, Sheard, Kruger, Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey and a few others are all solid. We might be on the lookout for Dansby's replacement sooner rather than later but really, we're not that bad off at LB.

 

Our Secondary is tops in the league. We're sitting pretty nice once Haden, Gilbert, Skrine, Witner and Gibson are all back out there. We have several young players with some skill too. Williams and Desir will continue to improve.

 

There is a lot of young talent right now that just needs to develop and mature, to gel together and improve.

 

The offense is in a similar state. Time and patience and improvement are needed.

 

But, is throwing more young players at the problem going to fix it or just compound it. IMO, NOW is the perfect time to strike for a TOP QB. We have the ammo and the need. Let's just do it, make a play for a change. We are seriously like an OL and a Franchise QB away from a Championship caliber team.

[bringbackbrownie2]

Mik- I'm not disrespecting or anything but really, we need ANOTHER DL?

 

Once Phil, Rubin, Bryant, Bryant, Hughes, Winn, and some others come back from injury, 100% we will be in good shape on the DL next year. We can't afford more backup players from 1st round picks.

 

Our LB's are solid. Mingo, Sheard, Kruger, Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey and a few others are all solid. We might be on the lookout for Dansby's replacement sooner rather than later but really, we're not that bad off at LB.

 

Our Secondary is tops in the league. We're sitting pretty nice once Haden, Gilbert, Skrine, Witner and Gibson are all back out there. We have several young players with some skill too. Williams and Desir will continue to improve.

 

There is a lot of young talent right now that just needs to develop and mature, to gel together and improve.

 

The offense is in a similar state. Time and patience and improvement are needed.

 

But, is throwing more young players at the problem going to fix it or just compound it. IMO, NOW is the perfect time to strike for a TOP QB. We have the ammo and the need. Let's just do it, make a play for a change. We are seriously like an OL and a Franchise QB away from a Championship caliber team.

Kruger and Dansby are the only above avg LBers we have. The rest are mediocre at best. Mingo has the athleticism but doesn't understand the concept of setting the edge. Time and time again the dumbass allows a rb or qb to get to the sidelines because he gets sucked into the middle. Great example is Cam's rushing TD yesterday. He also has no real pass rushing moves. Sheard, Kirksey, and Robertson are awful in pass coverage and not much better against the run. I would love a young LB in the draft. God knows we need one..

[miktoxic]

there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......

 

our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?

 

you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).

 

plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.

[tiamat63]

Mik- I'm not disrespecting or anything but really, we need ANOTHER DL?

 

Once Phil, Rubin, Bryant, Bryant, Hughes, Winn, and some others come back from injury, 100% we will be in good shape on the DL next year. We can't afford more backup players from 1st round picks.

 

Our LB's are solid. Mingo, Sheard, Kruger, Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey and a few others are all solid. We might be on the lookout for Dansby's replacement sooner rather than later but really, we're not that bad off at LB.

 

Our Secondary is tops in the league. We're sitting pretty nice once Haden, Gilbert, Skrine, Witner and Gibson are all back out there. We have several young players with some skill too. Williams and Desir will continue to improve.

 

There is a lot of young talent right now that just needs to develop and mature, to gel together and improve.

 

The offense is in a similar state. Time and patience and improvement are needed.

 

But, is throwing more young players at the problem going to fix it or just compound it. IMO, NOW is the perfect time to strike for a TOP QB. We have the ammo and the need. Let's just do it, make a play for a change. We are seriously like an OL and a Franchise QB away from a Championship caliber team.

 

Rub is going to be gone in the off season. Big Phil's injury wasn't as severe as Monty's but you have concerns between them and Hughes if they'll be back 100%. Look at how long its taken Geno Smith to round into form. As it stands we have... 4.. healthy lineman? Its BPA. If BPA dictates a DL pick, then by all means go ahead. I've said since mid season, I want a fucking monster 3 tech player. I'm still convince that's Malcolm Brown from Texas.

 

It is not the perfect time to strike for a top QB because of the top two QB"s this year, one has seriously regressed mentally and the other runs an offense in no way conducive to the NFL with his own mental mistakes to boot. You can't keep sinking top 10 picks on QB's with these types of question marks. We made a play this year, traded up for Foosball, look how that's panned out so far.

 

Hell, I'd like to see DL, pass rusher, WR, OL. I'd be giddy as fuck with a draft like that. Shore up the lines and take a good defense to a championship level.

[miktoxic]

but walter, you were screaming to take manziel (along with clowney, bortles, robinson, watkins, mack, and everyone else in the first round).

 

now you see how things pan out and youskim off the fat and proclaim we shoulda woulda coulda.

 

typical bandwagon behavior.

[HoundDawg]

I have no patience left for Johnny Manziel. I don't care how much he promises to work harder in the off season. I don't believe him. Why should I? He said all the right things about changing his off the field habits before the draft and did manage to at least keep his head down until he got drafted. Then he promptly went out and acted the fool all off season, showed up to camp unprepared and told everyone he was "gonna do" Johnny. He wasn't doing anything wrong and could do whatever he wanted in his own time. He has had 14 weeks this season to absorb everything Brian was doing to prepare every week. If he did any of that, then he just sucks and will never make it, or he wasn't paying nearly the attention he should have been. Why should we believe he will do anything different this off season? He's a circus clown, and an ass clown that has earned no trust from anyone in the organization, or any of us. I can't see what we could get out if him in trade, but I'd take whatever I could and cut ties. Allowing him another chance is what everyone has done for him all his life and he still don't get it and he won't until he suffers the consequences. If we can't trade him, I'd take the hit and release him. He's brought nothing positive to this team except ONE drive. Three or four minutes. All season. The rest has been drama and negative press. IMO, if this FO is going into next season HOPING he will do better, they're crazy.

[bigbaddawgjr]

we will be lucky to get a 6th round pick for the midget.

[cuwoohio]

Manziel is 22 years old right. He's just a kid. Give him some time to develop. There is no rush on Manziel. Don't give in to the Manzielmaniacs of there. You bring Hoyer back for a Veteran Journeyman's salary, nothing more, if he wants to be here then good. We need a serviceable QB. If you can hit on Mariota or whoever he is then strike. Keep striking on QB's until we find the next big one. We missed on Carr, I believe. But, Manziel just has some developing to do. He started this season really late and under immense pressure, under playoff implications and being the second coming and all that. He will do fine in an offseason training program and come back stronger and faster, with an offense suited to his strengths, with players capable to capitalize on his abilities. Find a way to sign Mike Evans.

 

Really Evans made a ton of plays for Manziel, but it wasn't just Evans. Manziel must have cohesion within the offense. They have to sync and come back to the QB, make plays in a freestyle manner when he's scrambling. That is going to be the hardest part, finding the guys able to do that. High football IQs and big bodies, good hands; no, great hands. We also have been spoiled with Alex Mack. What a tank. Losing him was like losing half the country in a war. What an impact a player like that has. Even Joe Thomas struggled without Mack anchoring the line.

 

Gotta get some really good "big uglies" to finish that damn line, once and for all.

Agreed on pretty much everything. Getting rid of Manziel isn't worth what you'd get for him. Not to sure Hoyer would return next year, so there may have to be another veteran worth picking up to hold us over. I wouldn't mind giving Mallet a shot.

[jcam222]

 

Id give up a second rounder. Claiborne sucks btw. He is a bust. You could probably get Bruce Carter too.

I sure wish you had influence on Stephen then.

[jcam222]

I just can't see us keeping Hoyer after benching him for JFF. Hoyer will be looking elsewhere. I think we should keep him, but doubt it will happen.

Hoyer seems pretty bright to me. I think he understands the business side of it. If there are no rifts with the staff I could see him here next year.

[hoorta]

there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......

 

our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?

 

you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).

 

plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.

 

Yeah, our run defense wasn't exactly great even when everyone was healthy. Rubin is either going to have to take a massive pay cut, or he's gone.

[SkippinTurtles]

Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have rings. Midget QB's can thrive in the right setting. Manziel might suck, but if career backup Hoyer gets to prove he blows, at least give Johnny his chance to fail. Meaning more than a couple starts.

[HoundDawg]

If Hoyer had gone out and failed as miserably in his first two starts last year as Manziel did in his first two starts, he wouldn't be on the team this year. The reason he got more time is because we were winning games and he works his ass off.

 

Does anyone really have the faith that Johnny will be different this off season? I just don't. No way would I trust in that as our future franchise QB. He hasn't proven any of my doubts wrong yet. I have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could care less where he was drafted. If they made a mistake like that they should own it, remove it, and cut the losses now before he sets us back further. His distraction isn't worth the risk with his skill set where it is, and his clear lack of work habits.

 

There was a great example of the right way to do things playing in Charlotte Sunday. Pierre Desir. He clearly has taken the job seriously, done his preparation, studied, and took the coaching given him and we now see some results. This is what Johnny should have been doing all along as well. It wouldn't shock me at all to see Shaw has done the same.

[HoundDawg]

Unfortunately, no I don't. It's a shame, though, because his ego shouldn't get in the way of the right thing to do. You don't produce, and even worse, don't properly prepare, your ass should be gone or severely demoted. Sends the wrong message to the guys who are doing things the right way.

[darkside5]

Jerry Jones could use him as a backup to Romo. What could we get for him?

A bag of used footballs and a new Gatorade Cooler

 

GO BROWNS !

[lodilobo]

And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.

WSS

Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.

[darkside5]

What can we get for him? Are you out of your fucking minds? The real question should be "WHAT DID WE GET FROM HIM"? A lot of hype, turmoil, bad press, worse play and a broken "Johnny Sideshow" and a lot of broken Aggie fanboy hearts. And you dumbasses that want to keep him want MORE of this shit? Ray Charles can see this clown's not worth the trouble. Cut ties buy him some luggage and send him packing !

 

GO BROWNS.

[Westside Steve]

Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.

Apologies accepted.

But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.

 

 

And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!

We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.

 

We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.

(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Actually we should announce Brian Hoyer is healthy and will start this weekend and then trade him to Denver. He can replace Peyton Manning there and they will surely go to the Superbowl. They would probably at least give us a first for the advantage it will surely give them for their last game.

 

Jimmy would certainly have to sell his chain of truck stops to get enough money to pay Brian Hoyer what he deserves. So the trade would solve that problem.

 

WSS

[lodilobo]

Apologies accepted.

But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.

 

 

And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!

We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.

 

We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.

(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)

 

WSS

Stability is the key to being a consistent winner. However, I still think it's important to recognize your errors and correct them as soon as possible....especially with players at key positions. I would tend to give a coaching staff or individual coaches a lot more time and margin of error than has been the case here. With JM, if I could see something....anything.... that would indicate he could play effectively in the NFL, I would be a little more open minded. Our O line has sucked forever, and that doesn't help, so he looks terrible out there. Weeden, at least, showed flashes of NFL caliber play, with his big arm, but fragile mental state. I guess you could call it the Vinnie Testeverde syndrome. Hoyer has the ability to make big plays, and plays smart most of the time...just very inconsistent. Not to mention he's tough, and can take a hit. Don't forget....Hoyer was playing very well...fewest interceptions of all qb's until Mack went down. Obviously, he doesn't respond well to pressure situations, though. As long as were talking stability.....just wait until the Baltimore game. What if Conner Shaw plays really well, and maybe even wins that game? Then what?

[Westside Steve]

Are we talking about pulling the trigger? Cutting somebody after six quarters? Seems like there is an agenda underway. On the other hand in the same argument you tell me you have seen some greatness, or at least goodness, in brian.

I haven't seen what I would call flashes of greatness I've seen flashes of good enough to play in the NFL. I've also seen games we've won playing around his limitations. But regardless of the flashes he's been in the league for what 5 or 6 years already?

Look I understand the attitude, we all just want to shit can people if we don't like them personally and that's the feeling I get around here.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Speaking of Vinny Testaverde, Lobo, remember that the Bernie Kosar fans despised him.

 

WSS

[tml1138]

Stability is key, but you have to recognize the clear misses in the change ups too. Shurmur was a bad decision and had to leave asap. Same with Banner and Lombardo. Mangini should've stayed and had more time, but Lerner screwed that up with Holmgren, who is another that you can't say should've stayed for the sake of stability. With Pettine and Farmer, now is the time to keep stability. Even if they struggle to win games for the next two+ years, as long as you see progress being made and improvement, no matter how small, stick wtih it. Might be five years yet until they make the playoffs (especially if the entire AFCN keeps up like this year). That sucks when fans are at wits end, but it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet.

[Westside Steve]

Hey it's a little harder to argue that it was a good idea to shit can everybody you've mentioned unless things took a turn for the better afterwards. They didn't. Every rebuilding process sucked. Every new regime booted out the players that weren't their guys.

 

So far there's no reason to think any change has been for the better. Three more years and we might have a better understanding of the personnel at the top we have today.

 

WSS

[tml1138]

What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.

 

I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)

[tml1138]

My point is the time is now to keep things as intact as possible on key staff and FO. I hope they can keep away from the dreaded 4-12 / 5-11 seasons so judgement is easy. Biggest monkey on their back right now is, of course, the QB situation. Everything else I feel confident they will have a handle on, or will address the needs accordingly.

[Westside Steve]

 

What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.

 

I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)[/quote

]

4 years is okay. Then what happened? Superbowl? AFC championship?

 

WSS

[tml1138]

Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.

[Westside Steve]

Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.

I don't know. Quite honestly I don't know much about how he hurt or didn't hurt the team. I'm just saying it seems to me that the Browns organization is more fickle then most successful organizations. And the quick trigger hasn't seemed to produce results. We tend to focus on a personality and it just hasn't worked out yet.

All I can say is look at the results. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should replace the coaching staff every six quarters.

 

 

WSS