Watson Suspended for 11 Games and Fined $5 Million / and a bit OT and back.

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

no I let a grand jury judge his actions.

And I don’t need the money lol nor  do I have the desire my wife is plenty for me 

Gee, the Texas Grand jury determined there was "possibly" no forcible  sex involved. I won't repeat the  public details of what Watson was asking women to do. That goes far, far beyond anything a normal person would consider a medical/ therapeutic  massage. 

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The reality is men and women not Convicted of crimes have faced punishment from the NFL and that will be the case here. Maybe my bewilderment is with The year plus or indefinite crowd. 

Trust me I’m aware…Did the grand jury think consenting adults were “victims”?  You can call them opportunists too. 

The problem is, Deshaun pushed the envelope of "consenting". I'll spare everyone the details. If you keep it up, I'll be happy to elaborate, but I'll have to put a warning disclaimer on that post. 

OK, You want my 0.02 cents? Watson deserves no less than the Josh Gordon  treatment.  Indefinite suspension until this crap is cleared up one way or another. And as a long time season ticket holder,  I'm not thrilled that the Browns sold their collective souls in search of a SB win. 

[Westside Steve]

6 hours ago, Zombo said:

Sam Darnold is awful.

Fucking awful.

I'd rather have Brissett. 

Z

Not the point a healthy Mayfield is better than either of them. That's just a way to get Baker out of Cleveland. (And just to reiterate Jimmy's an idiot and Stefanski and Berry are quislings.)

WSS

 

[mjp28]

5 hours ago, hoorta said:

Gee, the Texas Grand jury determined there was "possibly" no forcible  sex involved. I won't repeat the  public details of what Watson was asking women to do. That goes far, far beyond anything a normal person would consider a medical/ therapeutic  massage. 

The problem is, Deshaun pushed the envelope of "consenting". I'll spare everyone the details. If you keep it up, I'll be happy to elaborate, but I'll have to put a warning disclaimer on that post. 

OK, You want my 0.02 cents? Watson deserves no less than the Josh Gordon  treatment.  Indefinite suspension until this crap is cleared up one way or another. And as a long time season ticket holder,  I'm not thrilled that the Browns sold their collective souls in search of a SB win. 

Hmmmmm.  

[Flugel]

Who is the ONLY QB that won a playoff game with the Browns since Vinny did it with the same 11-5 regular season record back in 94?  Baker Mayfield in January 2021 when this team beat Pittsburgh AT Pittsburgh with 48 points on the scoreboard.  Was he flawless or looking like a 1st overall pick during the regular season?  No.  Having said that, he had a respectable TD:INT ratio of 26 TD:8 INT - but by all means let's make the 2022 season the tell-all for him.  This way we can excuse Haslam for committing the 5th year option for Baker before eating that $18,900,000 against the cap just 1 year later while we reward the Houston Texans with multiple draft picks inclusive of 3 first round picks.

For ONCE in this ownership, can Haslam ever complete 1 major commitment he's made?  Next year, is supposed to be a very promising QB draft for a team that would have drafted very high if Baker plays anything like the worst season of his career when he was injured.  We can't do that without our next 3 first round draft picks now can we?  The Browns could have also drafted a very underrated QB Kenny Pickett IMO before Pittsburgh did further back.  Didn't the Chargers draft a QB 1st overall when they already had Drew Brees?  They drafted Eli Manning who already told them "don't draft me cause I ain't going to play for you."  Then they had to trade him to the Giants for Philip Rivers who sported the prototypical size Brees lacked.  Rivers held out for the length of training camp and Brees was named starter again in his 4th season.  Brees came of age with 12 wins, playoffs and his 1st Pro Bowl.  Hmmmmm.  Things like size, antsy in the pocket and the Chargers ending up with the worst record had the FO certain all they had to do was upgrade Brees.  Guess what?  They was wrong...  That said, when Brees got hurt a few years later - they had another great QB ready to go.  Brees went on to eventually lead the Saints to a SB Championship.  We could have put something similar in motion to what the Chargers did back then here in 2022.

Instead, we're now going through another episode of "if it sounds too good to be true it ALWAYS is for Jimmy Haslam's Cleveland Browns." 

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Who is the ONLY QB that won a playoff game with the Browns since Vinny did it with the same 11-5 regular season record back in 94?  Baker Mayfield in January 2021 when this team beat Pittsburgh AT Pittsburgh with 48 points on the scoreboard.  Was he flawless or looking like a 1st overall pick during the regular season?  No.  Having said that, he had a respectable TD:INT ratio of 26 TD:8 INT - but by all means let's make the 2022 season the tell-all for him.  This way we can excuse Haslam for committing the 5th year option for Baker before eating that $18,900,000 against the cap just 1 year later while we reward the Houston Texans with multiple draft picks inclusive of 3 first round picks.

For ONCE in this ownership, can Haslam ever complete 1 major commitment he's made?  Next year, is supposed to be a very promising QB draft for a team that would have drafted very high if Baker plays anything like the worst season of his career when he was injured.  We can't do that without our next 3 first round draft picks now can we?  The Browns could have also drafted a very underrated QB Kenny Pickett IMO before Pittsburgh did further back.  Didn't the Chargers draft a QB 1st overall when they already had Drew Brees?  They drafted Eli Manning who already told them "don't draft me cause I ain't going to play for you."  Then they had to trade him to the Giants for Philip Rivers who sported the prototypical size Brees lacked.  Rivers held out for the length of training camp and Brees was named starter again in his 4th season.  Brees came of age with 12 wins, playoffs and his 1st Pro Bowl.  Hmmmmm.  Things like size, antsy in the pocket and the Chargers ending up with the worst record had the FO certain all they had to do was upgrade Brees.  Guess what?  They was wrong...  That said, when Brees got hurt a few years later - they had another great QB ready to go.  Brees went on to eventually lead the Saints to a SB Championship.  We could have put something similar in motion to what the Chargers did back then here in 2022.

Instead, we're now going through another episode of "if it sounds too good to be true it ALWAYS is for Jimmy Haslam's Cleveland Browns." 

All true but it might be a little bit premature to assume Kenny Pickett will be the crown jewel of the quarterback class. And even if he were I would assume that changing the coaching staff and front office every year or two has the window of opportunity slam shut would put the kibosh on that . Also let's not forget how badly a particular group of fans hated Vinny Testaverde. Like the Dalai Lama said "haters gonna hate."

🧡🤎

WSS 

[SdBacker80]

10 hours ago, Flugel said:

Again, OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murder in front of a Grand Jury either. That said, was there even 1 juror that really thought he didn't slit his wife's throat?   Perhaps stuff like this is why the NFL knows they need to do their own investigation.

In Watson's case, the Houston Texans organization was actually booking a hotel room for appointments with many of Watson's 66 different massage therapists.  

You are correct about some opportunists.  7 of these massage therapists have admitted to booking more appointments with Watson and bragging to others they're continuing to work with him.  The problem with this is it doesn't change the feelings of the massage therapists that had legitimate reasons not to sell out.  Another problem with all this is Watson either doesn't think he's done anything wrong; or he can just lie his way out of it as many times as necessary.   

OJ had a jury trial. So I’ll stop you there 

Hmmm…the NFL doing fact finding and a thorough “legal” process.   what could go wrong there?  
 

Wow I can give you plenty of examples of that going wildly wrong with horribly inconsistent results (depending on the team) too.

[Westside Steve]

https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/deshaun-watson-committed-crimes-houston-police-detective-testifies/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab

 

And it keeps on Ticking and Ticking and Ticking

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

OJ had a jury trial. So I’ll stop you there 

Hmmm…the NFL doing fact finding and a thorough “legal” process.   what could go wrong there?  
 

Wow I can give you plenty of examples of that going wildly wrong with horribly inconsistent results (depending on the team) too.

O.j. had a jury trial came out on top of it and still the civil courts raked him over the coals.

WSS

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

OJ had a jury trial. So I’ll stop you there 

Hmmm…the NFL doing fact finding and a thorough “legal” process.   what could go wrong there?  
 

Wow I can give you plenty of examples of that going wildly wrong with horribly inconsistent results (depending on the team) too.

OJ had a farce of a jury trial,  overwhelming evidence  -but- afraid of rioting they let him go free.

Thank goodness he was such an idiot and got caught up in that civil stuff.  OJ should never be a good example of jurisprudence that's for sure. 

Now the " NFL jurisprudence " can be unpredictable at best .....just see the DW mess.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

O.j. had a jury trial came out on top of it and still the civil courts raked him over the coals.

WSS

Great and I’m trying to figure out the Watson and OJ connection.  I don’t have enough patience today to explain the differences with each

[Westside Steve]

4 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Great and I’m trying to figure out the Watson and OJ connection.  I don’t have enough patience today to explain the differences with each

Too bad. I don't see that much of a correlation. 

WSS

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/deshaun-watson-committed-crimes-houston-police-detective-testifies/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab

And it keeps on Ticking and Ticking and Ticking

WSS

From that article Steve...  

"Per the report, Baker said she believed Watson committed criminal indecent assault, sexual assault and prostitution in cases where money was exchanged for consensual sex."  What I've been saying...  

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

O.j. had a jury trial came out on top of it and still the civil courts raked him over the coals.

WSS

Remains to be seen if Watson's lawyers can get the civil cases dismissed. MHO is they won't be able to, and Deshaun is going to be out a ton of that$200+ million he's scheduled to make.  If Busbee pulls off the Daily Double and succeeds in his lawsuit against the Texans on top of that, him and his gals are all going to be set for life. 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

All true but it might be a little bit premature to assume Kenny Pickett will be the crown jewel of the quarterback class. And even if he were I would assume that changing the coaching staff and front office every year or two has the window of opportunity slam shut would put the kibosh on that . Also let's not forget how badly a particular group of fans hated Vinny Testaverde. Like the Dalai Lama said "haters gonna hate."

🧡🤎

WSS 

I haven't forgotten about Testaverde going 11-5 and winning the last playoff game for Cleveland before Baker was the QB of an 11-5 team that also won a playoff game.  For some reason, our fans hate those 2 guys almost as if Baker destroyed the existing tradition people were more content with (1-31 football the 2 seasons before the Browns drafted him).  In his rookie year the team was also winless and facing a 14 point deficit in his first appearance where he erased that deficit and this team freakin WON.  They won 6 more games after that while he set the rookie record for passing TDs. 

Pickett was just 1 idea Steve that would have allowed Cleveland to honor the 5th year of a contract with Baker the FO/Owner committed to.  We could have drafted something else in round 1 with the understanding the next draft class of QBs is supposed to be pretty good.  Point is - we had nice options while the Browns wouldn't have to give up so much for a guy that might be suspended....

The light at the end of the tunnel doesn't always have to be the headlamp of an oncoming train unless it's the Cleveland Browns...

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

OJ had a jury trial. So I’ll stop you there 

Hmmm…the NFL doing fact finding and a thorough “legal” process.   what could go wrong there?  
 

Wow I can give you plenty of examples of that going wildly wrong with horribly inconsistent results (depending on the team) too.

Nevermind.  Everything is just perfect.  🤣

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Great and I’m trying to figure out the Watson and OJ connection.  I don’t have enough patience today to explain the differences with each

Just slow down and exhale.  You'll get it if you want to...

[FY56]

18 hours ago, mjp28 said:

OJ had a farce of a jury trial,  overwhelming evidence  -but- afraid of rioting they let him go free.

Thank goodness he was such an idiot and got caught up in that civil stuff.  OJ should never be a good example of jurisprudence that's for sure. 

Now the " NFL jurisprudence " can be unpredictable at best .....just see the DW mess.

No sir, anticipating riots had nothing to do with him being set free. 

[SdBacker80]

16 hours ago, Flugel said:

Just slow down and exhale.  You'll get it if you want to...

The slow down for you is here….

OJ and his defense team had an opportunity in trial to confront witnesses.   Watson and his team could certainly confront witnesses against him IF he ever gets to that point including the detective that made statements of her opinion 

Watson and his team didn’t have the same opportunity at his grand jury proceeding.

Grand Jury Proceeding vs Jury Trial are two different things.  So again and with all due respect I’m not seeing the lazy connection being made. 
 

I don’t practice law but there was a gentleman in here right after we signed Watson that explained grand jury proceedings (101 entry level style)    Watson if I recall correctly had two separate proceedings in two different counties.  
 

so again since that time he’s had two civil cases filed against him and multiple MEDIA hit pieces. Some of you are hell bent on respecting the media over the legal process that played out.  And that’s fine because that is all too common these days.   

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

The slow down for you is here….

so again since that time he’s had two civil cases filed against him and multiple MEDIA hit pieces. Some of you are hell bent on respecting the media over the legal process that played out.  And that’s fine because that is all too common these days.   

Right, Watson has been cleared of any criminal wrong doing, but I'm sure you're aware the standards are a lot lower in a civil case.  For gosh sakes, this isn't one or two episodes, it's 24- and another 40 or so women who were happy with their encounters.  

If you think the media hit pieces are\were bad... You ain't seen nuthin' yet when this goes to trial. Going to be must watch sleaze TV. Generally speaking, NY Times investigative reporting is impeccable. 66 women in 18 months equals roughly one a week. So if a newspaper reporter could dig this up, it begs the question how much "due diligence" the Browns did before they sold their collective souls in search of that elusive SB Ring. It's going to be damn near impossible (IMHO) for Watson to whitewash that many episodes.  Even if he manages to pull that off, he's still going to be a pariah in many, if the not the majority- of people's minds ala Michael Vick.   

We'll see soon enough what the NFL's investigation turns up. They don't need a trial to convict Deshaun of being naughty, and tarnishing The Shield big time. They'll present their evidence to an independent arbitrator who will decide if their findings have any merit-or not.  BTW, if the reports are accurate, those civil cases are being pushed back until spring of 2023 at the earliest. It's not Rocket Science on how the Browns are going to be greeted in away, and possibly home games with Watson at QB.    

 

[syd]

Drew Brees baby

[mjp28]

Another OJ, Bill Cosby show that's just begun.  And the NFL football season is just around the corner.   Oh boy.

[SdBacker80]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Right, Watson has been cleared of any criminal wrong doing, but I'm sure you're aware the standards are a lot lower in a civil case.  For gosh sakes, this isn't one or two episodes, it's 24- and another 40 or so women who were happy with their encounters.  

If you think the media hit pieces are\were bad... You ain't seen nuthin' yet when this goes to trial. Going to be must watch sleaze TV. Generally speaking, NY Times investigative reporting is impeccable. 66 women in 18 months equals roughly one a week. So if a newspaper reporter could dig this up, it begs the question how much "due diligence" the Browns did before they sold their collective souls in search of that elusive SB Ring. It's going to be damn near impossible (IMHO) for Watson to whitewash that many episodes.  Even if he manages to pull that off, he's still going to be a pariah in many, if the not the majority- of people's minds ala Michael Vick.   

We'll see soon enough what the NFL's investigation turns up. They don't need a trial to convict Deshaun of being naughty, and tarnishing The Shield big time. They'll present their evidence to an independent arbitrator who will decide if their findings have any merit-or not.  BTW, if the reports are accurate, those civil cases are being pushed back until spring of 2023 at the earliest. It's not Rocket Science on how the Browns are going to be greeted in away, and possibly home games with Watson at QB.    

 

Watson didn’t even go to trial in a criminal matter.  Michael Vick went to trial.  He was convicted for killing dogs and being a profiteer in that act.  Sorry I’m not following this connection.  2 for 2 with examples.  

In all 12 of the cases brought before a grand jury there was no criminal wrong doing.  Why weren’t almost half of the cases brought before the Grand Jury?  I’m waiting for this to get exposed. 
 

You got one thing right the burden is lowered in civil cases.  But for once we get to hear if the States witnesses are actually credible and not just assume they are credible like some of these media outlets are doing.   
 

Don’t even get me started on the NFL as an investigatory unit in this matter and a final piece to this puzzle. There is no rhyme or reason for any suspension or discipline that they levy and quite Honestly I’m not going to even make an educated guess there. 

[SdBacker80]

7 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Another OJ, Bill Cosby show that's just begun.  And the NFL football season is just around the corner.   Oh boy.

Bill Cosby now!!! 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Watson didn’t even go to trial in a criminal matter.  Michael Vick went to trial.  He was convicted for killing dogs and being a profiteer in that act.  Sorry I’m not following this connection.  2 for 2 with examples.  

In all 12 of the cases brought before a grand jury there was no criminal wrong doing.  Why weren’t almost half of the cases brought before the Grand Jury?  I’m waiting for this to get exposed. 
 

You got one thing right the burden is lowered in civil cases.  But for once we get to hear if the States witnesses are actually credible and not just assume they are credible like some of these media outlets are doing.   
 

Don’t even get me started on the NFL as an investigatory unit in this matter and a final piece to this puzzle. There is no rhyme or reason for any suspension or discipline that they levy and quite Honestly I’m not going to even make an educated guess there. 

You're not following along.... It doesn't matter one iota that Vick, or for that matter Cosby got criminally convicted.  Public opinion is what's going to matter here. It's obvious you don't give a rat's ass what Watson was doing during those "massages".  Hate to break it to you, there's a ton of Browns fans (some who are now former fans) who DO.  To not renewing (valuable) PSLs, to lifelong fans throwing their Browns gear in the trash, and promising they're never watching another Browns game, or an impassioned Op-Ed letter to the Cleveland Plain Dealer telling Haslam... You majorly screwed up on this one... SELL THE TEAM!!!!

FWIW, in case you missed my sig line- I live in Dayton... Bengals territory. As a Season Ticket Holder since 1999 I've sort of stopped wearing my Browns gear out in public... I'm embarrassed to do so.  I may as well wear a t-shirt saying "I LOVE Slimeballs like Desean Watson".  Yeah, plenty of times I either get laughed at or get condescending "we're so sorry about your luck" looks.  

I don't really care if your 0.02 is Watson is a guy with a lot of money and hopped up hormones who likes getting his weiner tugged, or some other more graphic stuff that I'll refrain from mentioning. Just be aware it's a minority opinion in Browns Town.    

[Westside Steve]

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fletters%2F2022%2F06%2Fafter-disrespecting-half-the-population-through-watson-trade-haslams-should-sell-the-browns.html&h=AT1esGA40AUL2BmVc6jFsPkmu3KSXSYSIX0bKC88DifKhOXptuIjqFHse73lJw4TFXwg2-tczfhFgUQg49W-dHSJ0jXtT-SaP67TKM6u05DJXMtPtWoiyF6PjfrOeXN61g

[hoorta]

13 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fletters%2F2022%2F06%2Fafter-disrespecting-half-the-population-through-watson-trade-haslams-should-sell-the-browns.html&h=AT1esGA40AUL2BmVc6jFsPkmu3KSXSYSIX0bKC88DifKhOXptuIjqFHse73lJw4TFXwg2-tczfhFgUQg49W-dHSJ0jXtT-SaP67TKM6u05DJXMtPtWoiyF6PjfrOeXN61g

That's the letter I was referring to Steve. thanks for digging it up.    

[mjp28]

8 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Bill Cosby now!!! 

America's best father and husband.   

DW's pictures are next.

[Westside Steve]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/06/13/defcon-1-two-more-lawsuits-to-be-filed-against-former-texans-qb-deshaun-watson-bringing-total-to-26-sources-say/

And the latest

[calfoxwc]

Don't miss the comments at the end of this article already posted by Steve just above.  I wasn't wrong early on - now things are a lot worse.

He is now...officially "sleazi-er". Just a sickening disaster - the haslams are a disgrace, yes, they need to sell the team, which, at this point, will be less than what they paid for it, I think.

 

 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

Don't miss the comments at the end of this article already posted by Steve just above.  I wasn't wrong early on - now things are a lot worse.

He is now...officially "sleazi-er". Just a sickening disaster - the haslams are a disgrace, yes, they need to sell the team, which, at this point, will be less than what they paid for it, I think.

Cal, once the number of accusers topped 10, to my mind that doesn't move the needle on the sleaze-o-meter anymore. However, I do think it's highly likely that these Suzie come latleys to the sue-athon that's going to unfold see a chance to cash in with the others. But OTOH, that doesn't mean Watson was doing stuff in an encounter with them that he probably shouldn't have been doing.  

Whacking yourself off during a supposed "massage"? Um, just no. 

[mjp28]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:19 PM, Zombo said:

When we first signed Watson, I was happy. I defended him. "Ok, he's  REALLY into massage girls, likes happy endings, and while inappropriate,  his behavior is not criminal. This attorney has a personal vendetta for him and is very good at coaching these women that they have been wronged" 

The Browns said they vetted the hell out of the situation and that Watson was a good person and they wanted to build around him.

Watson said he did nothing wrong, and since we were in He Said / She Said territory, and there were no criminal charges ... I was all in on the new QB of the Cleveland Browns.

The NY Times article flipped things for me. I saw him as a different person: He manipulated the Texans, he lied to the Browns, and he lied to us at his press conference. 

No one needs 66 different massage women in 17 months. No one needs a luxury hotel room where different massage girls are sent. No one needs a massage girl to sign a NDA unless creepy things are happening.

We traded our future away and paid $243 M guaranteed to a lying creep.

Oh ... my Browns.

The draft picks are gone.

But we can sue Watson for lying and then Jimmy can sell the team to a fucking hands off owner and let the football people run the team.

He just keeps fucking up.

But that's probably not happening. We will probably have Briskett go 9-8 this year and then we will have to start letting some talent go because of Watson's back ended guaranteed contract and never get to the Super Bowl while we root for a team led by this creep.

Oh ... my Browns 😔

Z

I just re-read this post from 6/8 and nothing really has changed or improved since then.   What a dilemma. 

Oh ... my Browns indeed,

Time to go back over to my beloved Cleveland INDIANS,  now the Guardians by far the youngest team in MLB but really fighting hard to stay over .500 led by the best manager in baseball.   And the FO still a shining example of what it takes to compete as a small market team versus the big boys.  I'm actually enjoying the season so far I've seem/heard all/part of every game this year but one.  

Now Cleveland is first and foremost a football town no doubt about that let's just hope that they can pull out of this tailspin the homer in me firmly believes that....somehow. 

So,  GO BROWNS,  we still love ya' !